Read the article on pg. 18 in OKC's chamber new magazine www.velocityokc.com, re the chairman of Oracle was visiting OKC in early March for the first time. Why was he visiting? Potential division of Oracle coming to OKC? Why would he do interview for Chamber? Nonetheless, he was intrigued by our business climate...

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=25729 there is allready a thread about the mag!

I could definitely be wrong but I'm doubting there is an Oracle office going to be located here. This market is serviced out of the Dallas office.

There is a fair sized technology group (DBAs) in the Oklahoma market but not much in the way of an app market. There are a few local companies running Oracle ERP, some JDE, and some PeopleSoft but the larger companies are dominated by SAP because of its hold on the Oil & Gas market.

Some of Oracle's EDGE products (Siebel, Demantra, Hyperion) are starting to make some inroads but this market is nothing like Kansas City, St. Louis, or Dallas.

Believe me, I'd love it if they put an office in OKC but I'm just not sure there is the market to support it.

I think it was simply fodder for the chamber literature. Quite complimentary though. I read that and I was a little incredulous though. A company like Oracle, based in OKC, would be an utter failure, unfortunately. This is the simple truth.

I think it was simply fodder for the chamber literature. Quite complimentary though. I read that and I was a little incredulous though. A company like Oracle, based in OKC, would be an utter failure, unfortunately. This is the simple truth. Spartan.........did you have a crystal ball? Did you receive an epiphany? LOL.. I think you have been drinking to much of the OKC Urban Density koolaid. Can you give me objective reasons why OKC would be an utter failure if Oracle had a significant presence in OKC? What statistics are you basing this on? I am sure your a very intelligent individual however to make such a self defeating statement and a no vote of confidence for your city, then perhaps OKC is better off "not" having you as one of their postitive, role model citizens.

Spartan.........did you have a crystal ball? Did you receive an epiphany? LOL.. I think you have been drinking to much of the OKC Urban Density koolaid. Can you give me objective reasons why OKC would be an utter failure if Oracle had a significant presence in OKC? What statistics are you basing this on? I am sure your a very intelligent individual however to make such a self defeating statement and a no vote of confidence for your city, then perhaps OKC is better off "not" having you as one of their postitive, role model citizens.

He read it in a science book he bought at the Library Book sale.

He read it in a science book he bought at the Library Book sale.

That seems like an oddly specific remark. But in all seriousness, Oracle could probably come up with a division in OKC that would be a success, it would just have to be flexible on the kind of technical know-how required to operate the division. For instance, Dell is a high-tech company that has thousands of jobs in OKC, it's just that they're all call center jobs, in addition to a few marketing divisions that I believe they have moved to OKC. I was referring to the remark by the Oracle CEO that if he was starting a new company all over again, he would chose OKC for the headquarters.

According to Wiki: "Oracle is an American multinational computer technology corporation that specializes in developing and marketing hardware systems and enterprise software products — particularly database management systems."

Simply put, OKC does not have nearly the knowledge base that it takes to run a corporation like that. There are so few places in this country with that kind of specialized knowledge base. And it's not just that the specialized people with that kind of know-how have all migrated by now to California or Austin, but it goes deeper than that. OKC does not have the educational attainment statistics that indicate that it could develop that kind of knowledge base. These kinds of jobs traditionally always go where the knowledge base is located.

NOW if Oracle were getting into weather forecasting technology, or oil/natural gas exploration technology, OKC would be a very good place. Maybe if they were getting into computerized medical technology, OKC would be an alright place as well, because that knowledge base is easier to develop and OKC is one of many major cities that have a fledgling medical research district already, so that would be doable. But if a computer was moving here or setting up shop here, and had a serious operation that specialized in general computer technology, OKC would lack an existing knowledge base to grow such a company and it would probably not succeed. Chesapeake and Devon have developed their own knowledge base here in OKC that has been very good for them--there is a reason that these are OKC's most prestigious and demanding employers.

Unfortunately the educational attainment statistics in OKC are much too low at the moment to be able to go beyond these very specific areas in which OKC has an acceptable knowledge base. This is why corporate relocations have yet to happen, truthfully. It's not for lack of trying, it's not because we're not a nice city and a great place to live, and it's not for lack of cash offers for corporations moving here. But until we serious fix the lack of higher educational attainment in OKC this is going to continue to keep OKC's corporate relocation list relatively modest.

If you guys would watch Steves Newsok video from awhile back, the Oracle CEO mentioned his purpose was twofold, one, he was speaking at a conference, I believe the world creativity forum if I'm not mistaken, and two he has a side business of his own based out of Norman.

Spartan, Im sure that if a compan-y like Oracle was to locate to OKC, there would be enough professionals to make it happen. Even if they had to move in from other areas. ....

Salt Lake also didn't have the professional base that they currently have, but they got it with Micron and a few other companies that had the guts to set up shot there.. ... Ditto OKC's biotech industry. Shall I go on?

HOT ROD - There's not nearly enough professionals in the market to support one of the world's largest technology companies. I wish that it were different.

There are only a handful of consultants in this market and we travel to other locations to work. My office is in a different state. OU and OSU do not produce the type or number of graduates needed and the airport does not offer nearly enough direct flights. There have been a couple of Oracle partners that have tried to setup shop here that did not make it.

Also, Oracle would have to change over its employee base because the redwood shores employees could not unload their houses.

On the plus side, I think the company would experience a lower wage load and employees would have a better lifestyle. And the current president is from this part of the country and is a Baylor grad.

Believe me, I would LOVE it. It would expand my world significantly and would be fantastic for the community. But the risk is too great.

Oracle is already in the process of slowly and quitely relocating everything to Salt Lake City.

As they buy up everyting and make it suck like Symantec. Java is just the beginning....now with MySQL, we're all screwed.

If they locate anything in OKC it would probably be for supporting larger contracts in their services division, when the contract requires the people be here like HP has a couple of in OKC and Tulsa.

Oracle is already in the process of slowly and quitely relocating everything to Salt Lake City.
Ah, now Larry Ellison can buy part ownership of the Jazz and he won't have to find a team to move to San Jose.

Spartan, Im sure that if a compan-y like Oracle was to locate to OKC, there would be enough professionals to make it happen. Even if they had to move in from other areas. ....

Salt Lake also didn't have the professional base that they currently have, but they got it with Micron and a few other companies that had the guts to set up shot there.. ... Ditto OKC's biotech industry. Shall I go on?

Hot Rod, put the crack pipe down, and walk away...

speaking from experience, huh Sparty?

If Oracle does in fact open up an office and it results in professionals moving to OKC from other cities (like has happened with a different company in Seattle, for example), will you give me an apology or do you insist on making enemies online? Let me know how you roll. ...

speaking from experience, huh Sparty?

If Oracle does in fact open up an office and it results in professionals moving to OKC from other cities (like has happened with a different company in Seattle, for example), will you give me an apology or do you insist on making enemies online? Let me know how you roll. ...

Um. Not sure what you're saying, but are you basically asking for an apology (for your shattered ego I presume) in the event that Oracle DOES relocate to OKC? Sure, I'll agree to that...lol. Don't hold your breath on that apology, though.

I don't care about "making enemies online" or "rolling" or anything in your post. Just be realistic. Constantly deluding yourself that Oklahoma City, Okielahoma is the greatest biggest baddest city in the world isn't going to make you sound very informed. Appreciate the progress we actually have, rather than pumping made-up sunshine on rainy days.

Um. Not sure what you're saying, but are you basically asking for an apology (for your shattered ego I presume) in the event that Oracle DOES relocate to OKC? Sure, I'll agree to that...lol. Don't hold your breath on that apology, though.

I don't care about "making enemies online" or "rolling" or anything in your post. Just be realistic. Constantly deluding yourself that Oklahoma City, Okielahoma is the greatest biggest baddest city in the world isn't going to make you sound very informed. Appreciate the progress we actually have, rather than pumping made-up sunshine on rainy days.

Umm, I believe he said "open an office" not relocate.

Umm, I believe he said "open an office" not relocate.

Well, then what does that mean? Like how Dell has a large call center operation in OKC? Of course, it sounds great that Dell employs X number of people here, but that one doesn't change reality.

Come on. Face the facts. This is a state that absolutely does not spend anything, let alone attention, on societal needs. Like education. Why would Oracle even "open an office" here if it's a legitimate operation?? Why is facing these tough questions so difficult for some people?

If they locate anything in OKC it would probably be for supporting larger contracts in their services division, when the contract requires the people be here like HP has a couple of in OKC and Tulsa.

OCS does not have any work in this market. All of the work is done by Oracle partners and independent consultants.

Well, then what does that mean? Like how Dell has a large call center operation in OKC? Of course, it sounds great that Dell employs X number of people here, but that one doesn't change reality.

Come on. Face the facts. This is a state that absolutely does not spend anything, let alone attention, on societal needs. Like education. Why would Oracle even "open an office" here if it's a legitimate operation?? Why is facing these tough questions so difficult for some people?

Many businesses have offices in cities away from their home operation. That doesn't mean they are based in that city though. You said relocation, which is nothing like "opening an office." An office could mean anything from just a regional support group to just a branch office serving a function that doesn't have to be at the home HQ. Could mean 10 employees, 50 employees, or 200 employees. Offices are offices.

Many businesses have offices in cities away from their home operation. That doesn't mean they are based in that city though. You said relocation, which is nothing like "opening an office." An office could mean anything from just a regional support group to just a branch office serving a function that doesn't have to be at the home HQ. Could mean 10 employees, 50 employees, or 200 employees. Offices are offices.

But my original point is that OKC is still not exactly the kind of city that is attracting these kinds of operations en masse. We could be if we wanted to, but we aren't making those kinds of choices.

Those kinds of jobs are happening in large quantities in places like Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham (research triangle), Austin, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, Madison, Boston, Northern California, Seattle, etc. Essentially, in most of these cases these kinds of jobs are going in cities with a lot of perceived brainpower. Oracle is a knowledge-intensive operation.

These are the kind of business operations that OKC simply can not compete for. There should be no argument here whatsoever. They take one look at our demographics, the ugliest area being our rock-bottom educational attainment, and they pass on OKC. These kinds of knowledge-intensive places are absolutely not looking for the cheapest place to set-up business. They don't need to be able to truck something to a majority of the country within one day. The advantages OKC can offer don't help them.

And we all know that this debate does not take place over 50 jobs. We're talking about why OKC's legitimate number of tech jobs (not including the hospital janitor like the Chamber does) are only around 2,000 while most cities OKC's size have around 10,000, with many way in excess of that. This is the significant fact I am pointing out.

I agree with you in that regard.

But my original point is that OKC is still not exactly the kind of city that is attracting these kinds of operations en masse. We could be if we wanted to, but we aren't making those kinds of choices.

What in the world does that mean, Spartan? Are you saying that the city has made choices to not attract those kinds of businesses and could if they wanted to? I understand Oklahoma City's shortcomings in those areas as well as you do but to say the city making choices which are contrary to attracting businesses is not an accurate statement at all.

Well, then what does that mean? Like how Dell has a large call center operation in OKC? Of course, it sounds great that Dell employs X number of people here, but that one doesn't change reality.

Come on. Face the facts. This is a state that absolutely does not spend anything, let alone attention, on societal needs. Like education. Why would Oracle even "open an office" here if it's a legitimate operation?? Why is facing these tough questions so difficult for some people?

Seriously? Roughly half the state budget is "nothing" (thats just for education, not to mention other "societal needs")? We are required by the state constitution to have a balanced budget.

What in the world does that mean, Spartan? Are you saying that the city has made choices to not attract those kinds of businesses and could if they wanted to? I understand Oklahoma City's shortcomings in those areas as well as you do but to say the city making choices which are contrary to attracting businesses is not an accurate statement at all.

Oklahoma City has a state legislature delegation that as you can see, clearly calls the shots at the state level. It's these guys like Glenn Coffee, etc., who set the agenda. The Chamber and City has luncheons and other events and does a great job of coordinating the legislative goals with these guys. OKC prefers to use up all of its state favors on cash incentives for economic development and throwing money at the Big Dig. Don't even pretend for a second that education is given a priority here.

Oklahoma ranks 49th in per pupil education spending.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20100521/ai_n53801648/

Honestly, what would someone have to be smoking to want to hire hundreds, maybe thousands, of people in a state that ranks 49th in education? You should at the very least stay in the top 30.

That is skewing it a bit, we don't rank 49th in Education, just in the amount per pupil spent (IIRC, we do rank about average, somewhere in the top 30 range). More money spent doesn't always equal better results. There are states that spend a lot more that have worse schools and some that spend on the lower end and have better schools. By the way, Oklahoma ranks down there when it comes to teacher pay too. But Oklahoma ranks near the bottom when it comes to salaries in nearly every field, at every level. They say that is justified by Oklahoma's lower cost of living (remember the transferring Sonics employees got a pay cut, just for that reason).

Notable exception is the Legislature that reportedly is the highest paid part-time Leg in the country, and until just recently, was in the top 10 pay for full- and part-time Legs.

Also, according to the Census Bureau, there has been a "missing" $1,000 to $1,200 PER STUDENT difference in what Oklahoma collects in revenue for education and what it spends. That missing $1,000+ would go along way towards raising out per pupil spending stats. The amount unaccounted for comes to more than the yearly half a billion that then Sen Henry said the Education Lottery was going to raise per year.

The issue with knowledge base is only in part about secondary education. The key is a lack of Tier 1 universities and perception of poor academic rigor. The state's flagship universities (OU/OSU) are underserving our market and making it tough to compete against Texas/California, etc.

And getting out in front of the argument, you can pull out individual portions of the schools that do well but ranking 111 & 132 respectively (US News & World Report) amongst US universities is not going to cut it. Focusing on sports while underserving education is doing Oklahoma more harm than good.

Oracle is already in the process of slowly and quitely relocating everything to Salt Lake City.

Where do you get this stuff? Oracle is building a data center in SLC, that’s all. They aren’t moving the company to SLC, that’s just plain stupid. You want to know how I know? Because Oracle lists zero available jobs in Utah, zero. Not one in the whole state. But they have 787 open positions in Redwood City alone.

I hear Google is "slowly and quitely [sic] relocating everything" to Pryor, Oklahoma.

The issue with knowledge base is only in part about secondary education. The key is a lack of Tier 1 universities and perception of poor academic rigor. The state's flagship universities (OU/OSU) are underserving our market and making it tough to compete against Texas/California, etc.

And getting out in front of the argument, you can pull out individual portions of the schools that do well but ranking 111 & 132 respectively (US News & World Report) amongst US universities is not going to cut it. Focusing on sports while underserving education is doing Oklahoma more harm than good.

This. To take it a step further, the state's universities come up way short where it matters for tech jobs: science and engineering. For example, neither OU or OSU is ranked among the top 100 engineering or computer science schools by US News.

Don't bother comparing to Silicon Valley, which will always be in a league of its own--just look down here in Austin, probably the top mid-sized tech city, where football rival UT is ranked 8th for both engineering and computer science (alongside schools like Princeton and Caltech). Peer school A&M is just two hours away. It's not just that a university presence like that churns out lots of quality talent, but it also serves as a hotbed of entrepreneurial activity and is part of the reason Austin consistently ranks among the top cities in the country for VC investment. You can be sure that OKC will never emulate that level of success as long as OU and OSU sit so low on the totem pole.

Spartan, it's not ego - its actually common courtesy. But if you chose to seek out my posts and respond with your negative and arrogant tone - be prepared to receive the same. You consistently seek out and partially read and statements against ME when it is clear you failed to read what I write.

You're clearly not the most knowledgeable on this board despite your numerous posts, and I have seen and participated inother cities that you admire develop into what you think is not possible in OKC. In fact, I have participated on the OKC development boards LONG BEFORE you were even out of high school. I think Calgary has gotten too much to your head, perhaps the Tulsa board would be best suited for you?

And I live in Seattle (well, China now), so you don't need to pretend to educate me on how a top tier city is run. ...

Oklahoma City has a state legislature delegation that as you can see, clearly calls the shots at the state level. It's these guys like Glenn Coffee, etc., who set the agenda. The Chamber and City has luncheons and other events and does a great job of coordinating the legislative goals with these guys. OKC prefers to use up all of its state favors on cash incentives for economic development and throwing money at the Big Dig. Don't even pretend for a second that education is given a priority here.

Oklahoma ranks 49th in per pupil education spending.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20100521/ai_n53801648/

Honestly, what would someone have to be smoking to want to hire hundreds, maybe thousands, of people in a state that ranks 49th in education? You should at the very least stay in the top 30.

I am far from an apologist for the Oklahoma state legislature which I disagree with frequently but since you're an expert what would you suggest they do in an era of major budget shortfalls to increase funding for education? Do you think if the OKC area legislators push for that it will make money magically appear? Your contention that OKC officials aren't interested in or are maybe indifferent to education is laughable. I suspect they understand potential benefits of a better educational system as much as you do.

I am far from an apologist for the Oklahoma state legislature which I disagree with frequently but since you're an expert what would you suggest they do in an era of major budget shortfalls to increase funding for education? Do you think if the OKC area legislators push for that it will make money magically appear? Your contention that OKC officials aren't interested in or are maybe indifferent to education is laughable. I suspect they understand potential benefits of a better educational system as much as you do.

A ranking is a comparison with other entities. If Oklahoma ranks 49th in spending, it shows that the priority the legislature places on education falls below that of almost every other state. Obviously, the legislature (over decades) has not placed an emphasis on secondary or higher education and backed it up with real spending.

The lack of perceived education in the state means that we are fairly limited in the types of industries that would be attracted to be here. Our industry base is not very diverse.

The legislature may understand the benefit of education but they are not supporting it with funding and that's the real test of their priorities. Those are choices that the legislature has made over time.

Those are choices that the legislature has made over time.

As I said before, I frequently disagree with the state legislature and they have, of course, made bad decisions in the past concerning many matters. That doesn't change the fact of the current budget shortfall which limits what can be done to improve the situation in the current economic climate. The test will be what happens when the economy improves and funding can be increased.

A ranking is a comparison with other entities. If Oklahoma ranks 49th in spending, it shows that the priority the legislature places on education falls below that of almost every other state. Obviously, the legislature (over decades) has not placed an emphasis on secondary or higher education and backed it up with real spending.

The lack of perceived education in the state means that we are fairly limited in the types of industries that would be attracted to be here. Our industry base is not very diverse.

The legislature may understand the benefit of education but they are not supporting it with funding and that's the real test of their priorities. Those are choices that the legislature has made over time.

Maybe a comparison of state spending on education by percentage of state budget? Oklahoma has for ages spent about half of the state budget for education, so any claim that education is not a state priority rings a bit hollow.