View Full Version : Lawton - Major retail development under way



Dustin
04-07-2011, 02:30 AM
http://newsok.com/major-retail-development-under-way-in-lawton/article/3556081?custom_click=lead_story_title

LAWTON — Construction began this week on a much-anticipated shopping center and redevelopment project in downtown Lawton.


The site of Lawton Town Center, a new retail development project expected to open late this year. JIM BECKEL - THE OKLAHOMAN


Kohl's will anchor the Lawton Town Center shopping center, according to the developer's marketing package, and 30 to 50 other retailers will participate.

Negotiations are under way with retailers including Bed Bath & Beyond, Shoe Carnival, Dress Barn, Famous Footwear and Petco.

Originally, the shopping center was to open this fall, but construction delays have pushed it later in the year or early 2012, said Steve Scott, project developer with Ruhl & Ruhl Commercial Co. in Des Moines.

A Main Street district is planned to attract boutiques, public art will be displayed throughout and a 176-room Hilton Garden Inn hotel with an adjacent 25,000-square-foot convention center will allow the city to host conferences and events.

“We want to create a regional shopping destination for southwest Oklahoma,” Scott said. “Most of the country is still in the throes of the worst recession we've seen. But because of Fort Sill, and growth in the defense contractor industry in Lawton, lots of great things are happening here.”

The city of Lawton has for years been buying up land in the initial 12-block area for the project, a public/private partnership; more than 95 percent of the site has now been acquired.

Downtown revitalization will continue beyond the shopping center, with a new streetscape project on Second Street and a three-mile trolley or streetcar line planned to connect the Fort Sill gate to Lawton Town Center.

City Manager Larry Mitchell said Lawton officials sought to emulate Oklahoma City's downtown redevelopment in their project.

“It means a great deal to our community because we know without a strong downtown, our ability to attract new businesses and residents is fairly limited,” he said.

He said that the Lawton area has been underserved by retail in recent years and continues to lose sales tax revenue to cities such as Wichita Falls, Texas.

“We have a lot of interest in our community, a lot of retailers in downtown. It's just a matter of putting the pieces together,” he said.

Kerry
04-07-2011, 07:24 AM
I love be proved correct. BTW - great job Lawton. When you are done you will have more retail in downtown Lawton that in downtown OKC. I hope they make it urban in design and not 15 acres of surface parking. I am also intreagued by the streetcar to Ft. Sill. With that in place a state funded rail system between Lawton/OKC/Tulsa would make a lot of sense. That would be three streetcar systems linked by a single statewide rail system. Not even California could boast of that kind of system.

okclee
04-07-2011, 08:17 AM
Where is the 3rd streetcar system?

Kerry
04-07-2011, 08:22 AM
Where is the 3rd streetcar system?

Here:


Downtown revitalization will continue beyond the shopping center, with a new streetscape project on Second Street and a three-mile trolley or streetcar line planned to connect the Fort Sill gate to Lawton Town Center.


OKC is well on the way, Tulsa has one in the works, and this new one in Lawton. Add one in Norman from downtown to the OU campus and the 4 largest cities in the state would all have local streetcars.

Having gone through Basic Training, AIT, and national guard duties at Ft Sill, I am very excited about this Lawton project.

okclee
04-07-2011, 09:27 AM
Tulsa has one in the works?

Kerry
04-07-2011, 09:48 AM
Tulsa has one in the works?

I'll see if I can find a story about it. There has been some threads talking about it on OKCTalk. They are still in the initial discussion phase, but it wasn't too long ago the OKC was in the initial discussion phase.

This is a story from 2009 and things have progressed since then, but just not as fast as things in OKC moved.

http://www.lightrailnow.org/news/n_newslog2009q3.htm



Tulsa, Oklahoma — City transportation officials and planners are preparing a Downtown Master Plan that includes plans for a "heavy" (i.e., compliant with Federal Railroad Administration railroad specifications) diesel-powered multiple-unit (DMU) regional passenger railway and a "street trolley" (streetcar) system (i.e., a form of light rail transit, or LRT). They are in the final stages of developing the plan and hope to be far enough along to obtain some money from the federal stimulus package (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act ).

According to Jack Crowley, Urban Planning and Development Advisor for Tulsa, their new Master Plan involves three key elements:

• Plans for development of the downtown area...
• A plan for connecting the downtown area to the Arkansas Riverpark System...
• Start-up of a fixed-guideway system.
The initial core line would be 3.5 miles (5.6 km) long, starting in Tulsa's West Bank and running through downtown to the North Side area. Both termini of this route are undeveloped tracts of about 100 acres owned by the city and planned for "Urban Village Developments" (or Transit Oriented Developments). The route follows the local freight railway system and would add parallel tracks that would enhance freight capacity. A couple of alternative routes are being considered for extending the base route. The city hopes to have a plan adopted and to move forward by fall 2009. [E-mail, Jack Crowley, 3 June 2009]

Spartan
04-07-2011, 09:54 AM
Ah. I know Lawton well. That is an awesome area of the state, and Lawton is a nice city. But I've been skeptical of this project for a long time, it's exciting though to see it finally moving forward. They were playing a no-sum retail game for the last 5 years trying to prevent a huge lifestyle center from being built on the far west side of Lawton...

But streetcar system? Hmm, it could be cool, but I'm skeptical for many reasons. Especially the idea of using it to connect downtown to Ft. Sill.. first of all, the worst neighborhoods in Lawton are between downtown and base. Second of all, there is very little on-base that is right up against Rogers Lane (the Lawton-Ft. Sill boundary). You have to go at least a mile further until you're in the thick of Ft. Sill. So that's at least 3 miles away from downtown until you reach something meaningful.

Furthermore, there are better destinations closer...perhaps just along Gore Blvd., or if they want to do 2-3 miles, perhaps they could connect Cameron University. That would be just as meaningful I think, and help Lawton foster more of a college district west of Sheridan.

Kerry: But we'll see. And by the way, BA is bigger than both Lawton and Norman. Lawton is the 5th largest city in this state, and probably about to be overtaken by Edmond as well.

Okclee: Yes Tulsa has one in the works. Here's the website for it: http://www.fastforwardplan.org/
I'd say it's about where we were 2 years ago, granted, they don't have a looming MAPS vote as a forgone conclusion like we did. So that's 2 years behind + in need of a funding solution.

Kerry
04-07-2011, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the update Spartan. I was getting my population numbers from the 2000 census. At that time Lawton was 20,000 more people than BA and Lawton has seen a lot growth for base closures. As for the Ft. Sill streetcar. I was based at Ft Sill on several occasions and the one thing we always hated was having to pay for an expensive cab to take us into town. The base has its own bus system so if it could be tied into a station at the main gate there are thousands of soldiers and family members that would us it. Plus, TOD along the route might clean up some of the seedy place. It would surely encourage off-base housing and I could see downtown residential take-off if soldiers had an easy way to get to the base every morning.

On edit - I see where BA edged out Lawton by less than 2,000 people in the 2010 Census. Still 12,000 behind Norman but gaining. Does BA have a traditional downtown or is it just a collection of subdivisions?

Spartan
04-07-2011, 04:02 PM
BA does have a traditional downtown, and those numbers are also for BA corporal. There's a funny thing about Tulsa suburbs where they all have this "fence line" which is where they have the body of their city limits, and then they've annexed a thin sliver that outlines their entire "fence line" region. Within the BA fence line is a lot more than 100,000 people. I believe it's actually around 120,000, but that's not actually figured into the corporal city limits. Some Tulsa suburbs actually double in pop when you include their fence line, such as Owasso, which has yet to annex most of the "Owasso" neighborhoods.

BA also has a few historic neighborhoods around their main street, which is actually very nice. They just built a very cool PAC in their downtown, too...so there is potential there, but it's nowhere near as well-realized as Norman or even Edmond. They were also able to get one of the state's few lifestyle centers built in the "Stonewood Hills" development, which is like a less insulting version of Lower Bricktown. I do think BA is much further than Lawton however, both downtown, and in terms of development in general. But obviously BA feeds off of a much larger economic engine (than Ft. Sill), Tulsa.

I do not at all buy into the idea that streetcar would improve the neighborhoods between downtown and the base. Of course it depends which gate the streetcar serves, but I assume it would just be a straight line down Ft. Still Blvd. If it went down Sheridan instead, maybe it would actually improve a bad neighborhood. But it's hard to describe how bleak Ft. Sill Blvd is. It's actually a very beautiful stretch of road lined with beautiful homes north of downtown, and then Lawton Central High. Then when you go north of the Cache Rd interchange, which only happens when you're horribly lost in that city, it is SCARY.

The OKC equivalent would be talking about doing a streetcar line from Bricktown to NE 10th and MLK, just for the sake of it being close. Yes, I'm a huge believer in the power of streetcar to improve an area and build up a city. But there are even limits on my enthusiasm for that. I don't believe streetcar can give you something for nothing simply because I don't believe in that. I believe you have to have something, however little it is, to begin with. Putting a line through that horribly bleak part of North Lawton would be a huge waste.

I think a line out west through "Midtown Lawton" that could instead use Cameron U as an anchor, could be a great idea. Just up and down Gore Blvd, which is a stretch that has potential to break out as a trendy "inner city" corridor for Lawton.

Kerry
04-07-2011, 04:24 PM
Does anyone know where in downtown Lawton this development is going?

Spartan
04-07-2011, 04:28 PM
Here is a quick illustration of what I'm talking about...I included the location of the 2nd Street project.

830

ljbab728
04-07-2011, 10:10 PM
This conceptual drawing looks decent:

https://picasaweb.google.com/RuhlDSM/October2010FeaturedProperties#5529435738276364962

Kerry
04-07-2011, 11:34 PM
That actually look really good.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_q2wi6_5BSM8/TLyAgfxQAqI/AAAAAAAAAsY/R782p3uN6uc/s512/Perspective%20drawing%20looking%20east%20along%20C olumbia_without%20Koh%27ls.jpg

Spartan
04-08-2011, 04:00 AM
Kerry, you said in another thread about a mix of local. I believe the second phase they want to do is find a separate area or mini "district" to attract local boutiques, etc. I believe that is intended to be west of 2nd between Ave C and Gore.

There was a guy who used to post on my forum years ago who was incredibly knowledgeable about Lawton urban development, as well as two of their city councilors. So I don't know how much has changed, etc. I've also gotten to talk to Anthony McDermid about it before they changed architects.

By the way, that view has to be looking down Columbia. 2nd has always been 4 lanes, and I think will still be 4 lanes.. so that's interesting if it is so oriented towards side-streets. On edit I see that it says looking east, so obviously that is looking down Columbia. Very interesting.

Kerry
04-08-2011, 06:04 AM
My whole point is that the national retailers create foot-traffic that attracts local retailers to the area, not the other way around. Franchising didn't even exist at the retail level until the 1970s so when people say 'this district' or 'that district' does great with only local stores, that is probably because it existed before 1970.

I found this area to be just northeast of what I consider the heart of downtown Lawton, Columbia Ave is only like 2 blocks long and the portion of NE2nd does even exit in this area yet - so it was hard to find. By going E/W they can reach a railroad corridor that is adjacent to the property. I assume they would use this railroad corridor to reach Ft. Sill and maybe one day OKC/Tulsa with rail. The tracks go right into downtown OKC and it is the same track that goes to Tulsa.

on edit - it says NW2nd. I'll have to look at a map again.

Spartan
04-08-2011, 06:22 AM
Kerry, if you remember your time at Ft. Sill, 2nd Street is the one that starts in front of the Central Mall and goes for only a mile until it merges into I-44 along the side of Elmer Thomas Park.

They've had it completely torn up for about 2 years now. It's a huge streetscaping project. There was a popular bar on the street called Hoffman's, and a few other less-nice bars.

Kerry
04-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Kerry, if you remember your time at Ft. Sill, 2nd Street is the one that starts in front of the Central Mall and goes for only a mile until it merges into I-44 along the side of Elmer Thomas Park.


That was one of the problems. I was stationed at Ft Sill for 5 months and then spent every 4th weekend there for 3 years. We hardly ever went into Lawton because we had to rely on expensive taxis to take us everywhere. We just spent most of our time on base. I guarantee you that if they had a streetcar that could have picked us up at a station on/near the base we would have been using it every day we could.

I remember we did take a trip to a waterpark in Lawton. There were a ton of Air Force personnel from Shepard AFB there, including a pretty little Lieutenant that …, but I digress.

pure
04-11-2011, 08:56 PM
I'm from Lawton and both of my parents live down there and I'm excited that there will be something new to "do" down there. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_q2wi6_5BSM8/Sl-ARuOfxAI/AAAAAAAAAG8/WGgUAZgRh-o/s1600-h/Color-Concept-Plan.gif

I'm just worried that this may take stores away from the mall there. A development like this reminds me exactly like the shopping centers in Norman and Midwest City with Target and even the shopping center in Moore with JC Pennys. It seems the stores that are in these types of shopping center: Famous Footwear, Rue 21, Maurices, Old Navy and GNC are already in the mall that's just 5 blocks down the road.

pure
04-11-2011, 08:57 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_q2wi6_5BSM8/Sl-ARuOfxAI/AAAAAAAAAG8/WGgUAZgRh-o/s1600-h/Color-Concept-Plan.gif

Spartan
04-13-2011, 03:10 AM
Pure, ideally this will kick into high gear plans that were being talked about before the recession to do some interesting renovations to Central Mall. The downtown plans might not be finished yet...

By the way, did they tear down that awesome old Coca Cola building at 2nd and Ferris? If so, what a shame, it could have been incorporated into this easily. I heard that they were going to.

LawtonButch
04-13-2011, 04:00 PM
Spartan,

The Coca-Cola building still stands but I am not sure for how much longer. The building is empty, Coke move out close to a year ago. The building is in real sad shape. Many of the windows have been busted and boarded up, graffiti, etc.

The rest of the area is pretty bare. Many of the building are gone. Bianco's (sp) is still in buisness. From what I have read they will stay put until a new building is built for them to lease.

There is still an auto repair shop operating, I am not sure what their options are. Other than that, there is only one building fronting 2nd street still standing along with a few homes 1-2 blocks into the new development.

I haven't seen any signs of new construction yet though.

LawtonButch
08-17-2011, 03:21 AM
They have started to tear down the warehouses on the Coca-Cola property this last week. I think the beautiful brick building on the corner is close behind. Still no movement on the construction front. Things have been quiet, but the hotel should have been started by now as well as the Kohl's building. This whole project stinks bad, the city needs to be more upfront with the progress.

Just the facts
08-17-2011, 07:09 AM
I was just thinking of this project the other day. Thanks for the update.

LawtonButch
09-16-2011, 03:17 PM
The Coca-Cola building was reduced to several piles of bricks a couple of days ago. By now it is likely cleared. The northern portion of the area is virtually cleared with only a few trees dotting the landscape. The middle section still features two active businesses along 2nd street and a small number of homes that appear to be lived in still. The southern section also includes a few buildings/homes. This area is set for construction, although no construction news has been presented.

Thunder
09-16-2011, 05:12 PM
This is awesome! Oklahoma really show the whole United States of America that we are the only state to continue growing on the retail side. Many small towns are becoming cities. And it will only get better! Heck, Oklahoma could become its own country, group counties into states, and so on...even elect our very own President of the United States of Oklahoma!

Just the facts
09-16-2011, 10:32 PM
nm - dont want to derail this thread.

venture
09-17-2011, 02:05 AM
nm - dont want to derail this thread.

Sometimes it is just not worth the energy. LOL

LawtonButch
10-27-2011, 04:39 PM
New announcements made today. The hotel/convention center will be a 160 room Hilton Garden Inn with a 20,000 sq foot meeting space with groundbreaking in the spring of 2012. The developer (Partners in development) were apparently involved with the Skirvin in OKC. There is also talk of Northrup Grumman building an office building in the original location that the hotel was proposed to be built, moving the hotel to face 2nd street about a block north of Gore.

The news is also reporting that Kohl's is still going to be built along with several other firm commitments from other commercial retailers, although no names were mentioned.

Finally some new news, hopefully the dirt will move shortly.

mcca7596
10-27-2011, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the updates, LawtonButch.

Spartan
01-27-2012, 06:55 PM
Any updates on the groundbreaking of the downtown Hilton Garden Inn?

Soonerman
01-27-2012, 07:02 PM
Is Lawton getting a Target?

Spartan
01-28-2012, 03:27 PM
Well that's what I heard, but Target has only been opening like 10 stores a year since the recession.

pure
03-09-2012, 04:55 PM
Just an update, the developer that did University Town Center in Norman is doing the Lawton project now. http://www.kswo.com/story/17061327/a-new-developer-is-added-to-the-2nd-street-project

Spartan
03-18-2012, 04:55 PM
Yikes.

dj j2o
05-02-2012, 09:21 AM
Yikes.


It makes me sad that Lawton just doesn't seem to get it. Old buildings have far greater value than all of these new constructions that they tend to covet. They bulldozed all of downtown in the 70s to build a mall that could have been built anywhere under the guise that they were cleaning up the downtown area. If Oklahoma City thought that way then Bricktown, Downtown, Midtown, Paseo and the like would all be stripmalls. History is repeating itself and it seems that no one is ringing the alarm. Instead of trying to displace and bulldoze they should be truly revitalizing and giving incentives to current and potential business owners to remodel and reinvent current structures. Lawtonians seem to look at buildings and think "well it's not old enough to be considered historic..." so they tear it down and replace it with whatever cheap construction is the current standard. No building will ever be given a chance to be historic.

All of the younger people that I know in Lawton come to OKC and look at the areas previously mentioned and say things like "I wish we had something like this".

I graduated high school, college and my parents still live in Lawton. I've learned a lot living in OKC during this wonderful transformation/revitalization over the past decade or so. It borders on comical that the Lawton city leadership is saying that they are taking cues from the rebirth of downtown OKC. How much bulldozing did OKC do? Only thing I can think of is Deep Duece and I know a lot of people that are wishing they hadn't done that.

Lawton, please stop thinking like it is 1970! Your true growth depends on it.

Spartan
05-05-2012, 08:26 PM
Well, to be fair, we also did an incredible amount of urban renewal in the 60s and 70s..and we are still paying the price in OKC.

But also, the area along 2nd Street didn't really have much historic building fabric anyway--was mostly vacant lots east of 2nd, right? The only building that should be saved is probably the old Bianco's. What's happening to them?

fight4oku
05-06-2012, 02:04 PM
It makes me sad that Lawton just doesn't seem to get it. Old buildings have far greater value than all of these new constructions that they tend to covet. They bulldozed all of downtown in the 70s to build a mall that could have been built anywhere under the guise that they were cleaning up the downtown area. If Oklahoma City thought that way then Bricktown, Downtown, Midtown, Paseo and the like would all be stripmalls. History is repeating itself and it seems that no one is ringing the alarm. Instead of trying to displace and bulldoze they should be truly revitalizing and giving incentives to current and potential business owners to remodel and reinvent current structures. Lawtonians seem to look at buildings and think "well it's not old enough to be considered historic..." so they tear it down and replace it with whatever cheap construction is the current standard. No building will ever be given a chance to be historic.

All of the younger people that I know in Lawton come to OKC and look at the areas previously mentioned and say things like "I wish we had something like this".

I graduated high school, college and my parents still live in Lawton. I've learned a lot living in OKC during this wonderful transformation/revitalization over the past decade or so. It borders on comical that the Lawton city leadership is saying that they are taking cues from the rebirth of downtown OKC. How much bulldozing did OKC do? Only thing I can think of is Deep Duece and I know a lot of people that are wishing they hadn't done that.

Lawton, please stop thinking like it is 1970! Your true growth depends on it.

I agree that Lawton was stupid to tear down their historic downtown to build a mall. I wish they would consider tearing down the mall and start building lofts with ground floor retail. Unfortunately there isn’t a population base in Lawton that could fill downtown residential. Many of the Ft. Sill soldiers don’t make enough money to live in downtown lofts and the Cameron students are mostly commuters from southwest Oklahoma and live at home.


But also, the area along 2nd Street didn't really have much historic building fabric anyway--was mostly vacant lots east of 2nd, right? The only building that should be saved is probably the old Bianco's. What's happening to them?

The old Bianco’s building as well as Hoffman’s Bar are still standing. The remainder of 2nd street was just abandoned houses and empty lots that the city eminent domained and tore down. The city was doing itself a service to tear all of that down as there was no usefulness to those few abandoned homes anyway. The old Coke building had a fire not too long ago so they just went ahead and tore it down as well.

I think it could be interesting to try and revitalize the old creamery factory and build some residential back in the neighborhood on the east side of the mall to try and tie that area into downtown.

Spartan
05-09-2012, 02:35 PM
Will Bianco's and Hoffman's remain standing when all is said and done along 2nd Street?

Thanks for the clarification, and welcome to the forums by the way :Welcome:

fight4oku
05-09-2012, 03:28 PM
Will Bianco's and Hoffman's remain standing when all is said and done along 2nd Street?

Thanks for the clarification, and welcome to the forums by the way :Welcome:

I'm not really sure if they will stay when all is said and done. As far as I've heard Bianco's will likely go, but get relocated somewhere within the new development.

As far as Hofman’s I heard that they were a holdout on selling and the city was just letting them continue to operate until the development began taking shape (similar to how subway and O'connell's operated for years across from the stadium in Norman till the new dorm construction started). I wish I could substantiate these rumors as opposed to just spreading them, but I heard all of this prior to structures even being dozed on 2nd street.

Thanks for the welcome. I have been a reader on this site for two or three years prior to deciding to post.

Bunty
05-10-2012, 12:46 AM
Is Lawton getting a Target?

Target was recently questioned when a new Target store was finally coming to Stillwater. Its location is supposed to be in a new strip center, still not under construction, at the SW corner of W. 6th and Country Club Rd. The answer back from Lisa Ellis, the Regional Real Estate Manager for Target, who handles new store acquisitions in Oklahoma was: "While we are interested in Stillwater as a long-term opportunity (perhaps within the next 3-5 years), we are not currently pursuing a specific site there."

So maybe the answer also applies to Lawton.

fight4oku
05-10-2012, 07:09 AM
Target was recently questioned when a new Target store was finally coming to Stillwater. Its location is supposed to be in a new strip center, still not under construction, at the SW corner of W. 6th and Country Club Rd. The answer back from Lisa Ellis, the Regional Real Estate Manager for Target, who handles new store acquisitions in Oklahoma was: "While we are interested in Stillwater as a long-term opportunity (perhaps within the next 3-5 years), we are not currently pursuing a specific site there."

So maybe the answer also applies to Lawton.

I was talking to a family member that is fairly involved with commercial real-estate in Lawton yesterday when I first heard about Target going out on 82nd street. He said that the 2nd in command for Hunt developers out of Dallas had been working with Target for 4 years on the 82nd location in Lawton. He said that Target was only opening 12-13 stores nationwide, and that Lawton is definitely going to be one of those locations. He also said that Lawton is very under-developed with respect to its population base and that there probably aren’t but a few cities in the country as large as Lawton with so little development. The developer also said that the reason it’s taken so long to get to Lawton is that it’s just so far off the beaten path of the I-35 corridor between OKC and Dallas making distribution a little more complicated.

As far as the concerns in Lawton about poaching of retail from the 2nd street development to the 82nd street development, they may have some merit. However, the city has negotiated some contracts with some department of defense companies to put offices on 2nd street and is currently attempting to court more companies to do the same. While I don’t really know what companies have signed on and which are being recruited at this point, it only makes sense with Ft. Sill being located in Lawton.