View Full Version : No Pictures, Not Anymore



SkyWestOKC
04-05-2011, 02:35 PM
Airport police and security are cracking down. Found that out for myself today. I was on the garage taking pictures, two officers came up and told me to leave. No pictures allowed. They said the Department of Airports will only allow people to take photos if they have a photography permit from the Airport Director, then gave me a phone number to call. I even had my security badge on. I didn't say this, but I wanted to, "You're telling me I can go past the fence with this badge, physically touch an airplane, go inside of the airplane, unescorted and unquestioned. But I can not stand on top of a garage with a camera, 1,000 feet away from the airplane, and take pictures." Ironic, isn't it?

My advice, any of you who like to take pictures of airplanes, go out to the airport more frequently. And call the number before you do it. They will notice a large influx of this and realize it's an actual hobby, and they are in fact infringing on the rights of the public. There is no law, FAA Regulation, or otherwise that prohibits photography on public property, unless there is a sign specifically prohibiting it and listing the exact areas where it can not be done.

Atlanta recently was an on-permit only basis, but the shear volume of requests made them completely do away with permits, and call ahead "let us know"'s. It's free-for-all to take pictures at Atlanta's airport, no requests or permits are necessary.

680-3200

Kerry
04-05-2011, 03:01 PM
That is beyond ridiculous - and probably illegal.

SkyWestOKC
04-05-2011, 11:29 PM
It is illegal for them to do that. It's illegal for a government entity to even request photo permits be issued for public property. It's the freedom of the press.

But I'm going to play by their rules and turn the tables on them. They want me to get a permit each time, well, I'm going to call everyday, and go take pictures everyday. They will get tired of issuing the same permit everyday. I suggest the rest of you do the same if you like airplanes. It is not against the law to photograph airplanes, unless there is a specific law that can be cited, with a reference, or an official sign posted in the areas where it is forbidden.

MikeOKC
04-05-2011, 11:55 PM
God, what's happening to our country and common sense? This is just more evidence that the terrorists have already won. Your story is just....crazy.

venture
04-06-2011, 12:09 AM
Crazy but very accurate. Many moons ago I was at an airport (not OKC) that had parking areas around the perimeter fences. Gravel pull offs with garbage cans and such. Great views right under runway approaches or along the side of the main runway. My last time there I was at a spot I had been going to for years and the National Guard actually came up and forced me off the property. With in a week the airport had put up concrete barricades across all the parking areas. Photography in the terminal or from the parking lot also led you to a visit by the airport police who would either escort you off the property, attempt to take your camera away, or just make you feel downright embarrassed for having a passion for commercial aviation.

It is definitely a stupid time period we live in now. It is almost like these people have never heard of site like FlyerTalk, Airliners.net, USAviation.com, JetPhotos, etc...let alone picked up a copy of Airways. Its also unfortunately that the Airport Authority's reps that use to come onto OKC Talk are long gone so they could address this (they probably wouldn't if they were still here).

Edit - Related thread going over on A.net: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/aviation_photography/read.main/364428/

cameron_405
04-06-2011, 12:43 AM
...thought I'd share an interesting blog and case from Florida about photography at the Miami-Dade Metrorail.


We were permanently banned from the Miami-Dade Metrorail for taking photos (http://www.pixiq.com/article/we-were-permanantly-banned-from-the-miami-dade-metrorail-for-taking-photos)



"...The National Press Photographers Association is protesting the way authorities handled the situation. The Society of Professional Journalists is also looking into the situation..."



Miami-Dade Metrorail Update - First Amendment Photography (http://stretchphotography.com/blog/2010.11.20/metrorail-update/)


"...Iím pleased to report that since I returned to Miami in early September I have been riding said metro unmolested..."




Carlos Miller - Photography is Not a Crime (http://www.pixiq.com/contributors/248)


"...Carlos Miller is a Miami multimedia journalist who has been arrested twice for taking pictures of cops..."

Kerry
04-06-2011, 05:56 AM
You know, I always thought they would take away the guns long before they took away the cameras. What I always find odd is that when something bad does happen one of the first things authorities do is ask if anyone has photographs or video of it.

This kind of crap makes me want to support high speed rail.

euphjay
04-06-2011, 09:35 AM
I had posted this on another thread but it is even more appropriate here. The only question I would have, is what areas of the airport are considered public?

Thought some of the aviation photographers on this board might find this interesting/useful. It is a listing of your rights as a photographer (written by an attorney). Might be nice to have on you if you get questioned by security.

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

venture
04-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Noticed this on the new airport website...(my emphasis below)...

http://www.flyokc.com/Filming.aspx

Filming, videotaping and professional photography is allowed in the airport with a permit from the Department of Airports. All activities must be coordinated with the Department and any tenants and airlines that may be impacted by the filming or photography session. All Transportation Security Administration (TSA) rules and guidelines must be strictly adhered to.
To begin the permitting process you will need to provide:
• Script, storyboard, and/or detailed description of the project
• The number of anticipated crew, talent and clients that will be a part of the project
• The anticipated number of hours

A fee will be charged based on the amount of time and airport personnel required for the filming or photography. Please allow a minimum of three weeks to obtain a permit.
For more information contact:
Karen Carney
(405) 680.3262

Jettmiester
04-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Just don't be professional and you should have no problem. ;)

bluedogok
04-06-2011, 07:59 PM
Just don't be professional and you should have no problem. ;)
To the average Homeland Insecurity idiot a DSLR camera is considered "professional" equipment.

ZYX2
04-06-2011, 09:00 PM
All I can say is how stupid. I have seen the traffic cams and news helicopters film aircraft...shall we also get a permit before looking up in the sky? I mean, I'm very nervous that I may have taken a picture at an airport before. And I wouldn't want to break the law...er, random airport rules.

MikeOKC
04-06-2011, 09:01 PM
What a terrorist could learn from photographs that aren't already freely available is questionable. A terrorist probably wouldn't draw attention to himself and wouldn't request a permit either, he would simply use cameras that are the size and look of a ball point pen and take 3mp photographs. This whole thing (these restrictions on photos) from TSA, the airport, whoever, it's just such a dumb thing. The logical end to all this nonsense is for everybody to just stay in and never leave their homes. Or, better yet, the government should just keep us locked in our homes to prevent "terrorism."

As for the posting on the airport website: To me, it begs the question, "So, does a non-professional not need a permit or they cannot photograph at all?" Bureaucracies and balderdash.

Larry OKC
04-06-2011, 10:53 PM
Venture, that sounds like they are talking about filming commercials, T.V. shows or films. Like the recent pictures posted of a film being shot at the airport. Or a photo shoot for some magazine layout or such. Seems reasonable in those situations to require permits and the like to avoid the disruption to normal airport activity etc.

venture
04-07-2011, 02:21 AM
Venture, that sounds like they are talking about filming commercials, T.V. shows or films. Like the recent pictures posted of a film being shot at the airport. Or a photo shoot for some magazine layout or such. Seems reasonable in those situations to require permits and the like to avoid the disruption to normal airport activity etc.

That is how I take it, but it might be that the airport police are misunderstanding on who is impacted by those rules and enforcing them on enthusiasts that shouldn't be harassed.

bombermwc
04-07-2011, 07:15 AM
There's also the general unspoken policy of acting a bit bullish to try an intimidate the average joe to give up. You put up a fight and they just make your day as difficult as they can. Legal or not, they have ways to make it not worth the effort to be pissy. It's totally wrong and shouldn't happen, but it's much like how the TSA doesn't have legal authority to do a great many things they do (ie require a license to fly), but if you fight it, they'll just make up some crazy excuse to make you miss your flight. So it's in your interests to just go with the flow....which sucks.

OUman
04-07-2011, 07:32 AM
Here's my question: why don't they just create a spotting area which would be part of the new area in the East Side Development? It would be designated, which means the police won't haggle spotters there (since they already know it's for people who like planes), and it would provide for a separate area to view aircraft.

Austin Bergstrom already has an area like that, it's a designated aircraft spotting area right next to the east runway (17L-35R). DFW has the new Founder's Plaza, located directly north of the UPS ramp. Houston has designated spotting areas at both of its airports, two of which are located the ends of some runways.

Roadhawg
04-07-2011, 08:25 AM
Noticed this on the new airport website...(my emphasis below)...

http://www.flyokc.com/Filming.aspx



cool site... thanks

Spartan
04-07-2011, 04:45 PM
It is illegal for them to do that. It's illegal for a government entity to even request photo permits be issued for public property. It's the freedom of the press.

But I'm going to play by their rules and turn the tables on them. They want me to get a permit each time, well, I'm going to call everyday, and go take pictures everyday. They will get tired of issuing the same permit everyday. I suggest the rest of you do the same if you like airplanes. It is not against the law to photograph airplanes, unless there is a specific law that can be cited, with a reference, or an official sign posted in the areas where it is forbidden.

Yup. I've been harassed before for taking photos of the federal building. Then the security guy will reply and inform you about what happened to the last federal building. I wanted to ask him how long their security detail has been living in Oklahoma, but like you, decided it's probably best to ignore the irony and not pop off...

BBatesokc
04-07-2011, 06:53 PM
Yup. I've been harassed before for taking photos of the federal building. Then the security guy will reply and inform you about what happened to the last federal building. I wanted to ask him how long their security detail has been living in Oklahoma, but like you, decided it's probably best to ignore the irony and not pop off...

I actually worked with one of our media outlets awhile back regarding that very topic. A local college professor told me some of his journalism students were threatened with arrest and even had to delete some photos they had taken of the Federal Building downtown. I contacted a friend at a news station and they wanted to borrow some covert recording equipment I have. Then the problem was the station would not cover the expenses of someone getting placed under arrest. So, naturally I volunteered. They did harass me, but when I refused to stop taking pictures they just followed me around. So, looks like they are all bark and no bite.

Spartan
04-07-2011, 07:26 PM
Good to hear, although maybe your reputation preceded you. It's such a beautiful piece of architecture too, especially considering how many Okies probably cringe when they see contemporary design...haha

bluedogok
04-07-2011, 07:34 PM
I have thought about taking some of the new Federal Building and I would bet that I know a whole lot more about that building inside and out than the security guards do since I spent many month working on the project and most of the force protection design and details.

ZYX2
04-07-2011, 09:04 PM
I have thought about taking some of the new Federal Building and I would bet that I know a whole lot more about that building inside and out than the security guards do since I spent many month working on the project and most of the force protection design and details.

But if you take pictures of it, you may find somethingnut you don't already know, I mean, er, yeah. I got yelled at one time because my four year old relative stepped over that little black line at the airport. I mean, like her toe was just over it. I know there are rules but why do airport security officers always have to be so rude. It makes me really want to put my finger on the other side of the line, and then walk off.

SkyWestOKC
04-07-2011, 09:24 PM
Perhaps we could start a petition to the airport trust to set up an official spotting area. The east side development would be a terrible location. You'll be about 2,500 feet from the runway. On top of the parking garage would be great. That is how Fort Lauderdale, FL (KFLL / FLL) has one of their 2 official observation areas set up. They have a bench and a sign saying official viewing area, as well as a speaker with the Tower frequency playing. It'd cost the airport so little and I am sure we could do a fundraiser to help with the funding.

Similar to what Tulsa did. If I set up a petition, could I get signatures? Would prefer actual physical signatures, instead of online. Also, how many signatures would be a good goal to prove a point? 50? 100?

MikeOKC
04-07-2011, 10:39 PM
Perhaps we could start a petition to the airport trust to set up an official spotting area. The east side development would be a terrible location. You'll be about 2,500 feet from the runway. On top of the parking garage would be great. That is how Fort Lauderdale, FL (KFLL / FLL) has one of their 2 official observation areas set up. They have a bench and a sign saying official viewing area, as well as a speaker with the Tower frequency playing. It'd cost the airport so little and I am sure we could do a fundraiser to help with the funding.

Similar to what Tulsa did. If I set up a petition, could I get signatures? Would prefer actual physical signatures, instead of online. Also, how many signatures would be a good goal to prove a point? 50? 100?

This is a good idea. I remember years ago when Will Rogers had the observation tower inside the airport where you could walk up the steps and watch the planes fly in and out while listening to the communications with the control tower. You went through a turnstile that let you in for a dime.

But a setup like what SkyWest describes would be a great addition. I say go for it.

BBatesokc
04-08-2011, 06:32 AM
This is a good idea. I remember years ago when Will Rogers had the observation tower inside the airport where you could walk up the steps and watch the planes fly in and out while listening to the communications with the control tower. You went through a turnstile that let you in for a dime.

But a setup like what SkyWest describes would be a great addition. I say go for it.

I had completely forgotten about that. I have vague memories of that too. From what I remember though it was pretty run down.

Kerry
04-08-2011, 07:13 AM
So you guys would be willing to trade the entire airport as a free 'spotting area' for two measly 'spotting areas' that you would have to fundraise for. You fell right into the ole' bait and switch trick. Remove the photo restrictions which are illegal anyhow and stop playing the 'catch our own tail' game.

euphjay
04-08-2011, 12:47 PM
Similar to what Tulsa did. If I set up a petition, could I get signatures? Would prefer actual physical signatures, instead of online. Also, how many signatures would be a good goal to prove a point? 50? 100?

I'd drive over to the airport parking garage to sign your petition.

bombermwc
04-09-2011, 02:09 PM
But if you take pictures of it, you may find somethingnut you don't already know, I mean, er, yeah. I got yelled at one time because my four year old relative stepped over that little black line at the airport. I mean, like her toe was just over it. I know there are rules but why do airport security officers always have to be so rude. It makes me really want to put my finger on the other side of the line, and then walk off.

Because sometimes rent a cops like to flop their wang out to show you it's there. The TSA is no different. Next time someone wants to pat you down...act like you're enjoying it and see what they do. I usually pass on a wink to the closest female TSA worker if someone starts giving me the stink eye. Generally though, as long as you keep moving and have your crap together the OKC ones are on the good side though. Freaking Miami...those are some rude SOB's.

ZYX2
04-11-2011, 04:57 AM
Because sometimes rent a cops like to flop their wang out to show you it's there. The TSA is no different. Next time someone wants to pat you down...act like you're enjoying it and see what they do. I usually pass on a wink to the closest female TSA worker if someone starts giving me the stink eye. Generally though, as long as you keep moving and have your crap together the OKC ones are on the good side though. Freaking Miami...those are some rude SOB's.

Ha!