View Full Version : Bill 826 Ads



bombermwc
03-24-2011, 11:36 AM
OK, whether you agree with the bill or not, shame shame on the Firefighters and the IAFF for airing an add with the bombing in it. How dare you try and use that as ammunition. The event effected everyone and how dare you try and use it as fodder in an election...how can you steep so low.

http://newsok.com/senator-calls-advertisement-using-okc-bombing-image-tasteless/article/3551418?custom_click=lead_story_title

kevinpate
03-24-2011, 11:46 AM
Low, but no more or less so than those who wrap themselves in flags or Bible pages or 9-11 imagery to achieve their goals (and in part that does include the esteemed senator himself.)


Glass houses and rocks ... a suckie combination indeed.

king183
03-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Low, but no more or less so than those who wrap themselves in flags or Bible pages or 9-11 imagery to achieve their goals (and in part that does include the esteemed senator himself.)


Glass houses and rocks ... a suckie combination indeed.

Tu Quoque?

metro
03-24-2011, 02:22 PM
The local firefighters have stooped to a new all-time low. Not that they care, but they have definitely turned off my vote after MAPS 3, city council election, and now this.

Mikemarsh51
03-24-2011, 02:30 PM
You people need to get over yourselves! Who do you think was down there scooping our fellow citizens into the body bags? It was our police and firefighters and EMS personnel. Why is there no outrage about the Senator trying to strip away our rights?
I was there the first day and all through the recovery and that makes me proud. Some Senator who is making a name for himself by trying to balance the budget on the backs of the police and fire and EMS workers is the one who should be ashamed!!!!!

Mikemarsh51
03-24-2011, 02:33 PM
Metro, that ad was run by the International Association of Firefighters, in an attempt to protect all Oklahoma Firefighters. the local firefighters had nothing to do with it. If you want I'll get their number for you so you can cry to them!

metro
03-24-2011, 02:37 PM
No loss to me Mike, but your boneheaded firefighters union keep shooting yourselves in the foot more each day, that's why you can't get anything passed, and probably won't in the next decade.

king183
03-24-2011, 02:53 PM
No loss to me Mike, but your boneheaded firefighters union keep shooting yourselves in the foot more each day, that's why you can't get anything passed, and probably won't in the next decade.

I'm not taking a side on the binding arbitration issue, but from a purely political perspective, Metro is 100% correct. The firefighters union has gutted itself of influence at the capitol and many municipalities. Their tone, political strategy, etc. is just a huge turn off, even to voters who would usually be sympathetic with them.

Mike, you guys really need to either hire a public relations consultant or figure out a new strategy, because your union is killing itself. Too often you guys come off as arrogant, mean thugs in your political discourse. I'm definitely not saying you guys are (I don't know you)--I'm just saying that's how you come off publicly. The ad using the OKC Bombing isn't doing you guys any favors.

Interesting to note the police union supports the bill.

kevinpate
03-24-2011, 03:06 PM
You people need to get over yourselves! ... Why is there no outrage about the Senator trying to strip away our rights?
...

Ahem. Seeing how it wasn't your local who ran the ad, perhaps you have a need to get over yourself?

Try to avoid leaping into hyper defensive mode on your first roll-out next time mikemarsh. When you get so whizzed out, you cast a rather (too) wide 'you people' net.

metro
03-24-2011, 06:54 PM
Mike, as a professional PR guy, I'd probably work for your union for way less than your current PR person, and get you on the right track. I'm a guy that would normally be empathetic with the FF, but king hit it spot on the tone and strategy your union uses is mindboggingly stupid. Yeah, I just made my own word.

Dustin
03-24-2011, 07:26 PM
Really?!? That's what all the hub bub is about?? I see nothing wrong with the video either..

Mikemarsh51
03-24-2011, 09:19 PM
King183, you aren't well informed. We have had great success is stopping HB 1210, HB 1576 and HB 1577.

Wambo36
03-24-2011, 09:52 PM
Sid and diggyba, you just need to look at the vitriol and false indignation in the first couple of posts in this thread to see that there are some on this board who can't seem to discuss anything with the word "firefighter" in it, in a reasonable manner. It'd be humorous if it weren't so sad and predictable.

Thunder
03-24-2011, 10:25 PM
I am not quite sure how I feel about that. On the video clips side, and only that, I could see it as the factual events that had taken place in the past, which may be okay to use. It is hurtful to be reminded for the people that were affected (is the correct spelling, bombermwc), and while it is understandable for them to be feeling in that way, the event was still factual and it showed the situations the firefighters had to deal with.

However, according to the reported article, it says...


When the image of the bombed Murrah Building is shown in the commercial, a narrator says: “We're there when you need us. Now we need you. Tell politicians to do what's right: Oppose SB 826 and support Oklahoma's firefighters.”

In that way, I take it as offensive. What they are basically saying to me is, "We do this and that for you, so if you want us to keep on doing this and that for you, then you better do what we want/told you to do." Well, we are not forcing the firefighters to risk their lives for us. It is their decision when they choose such profession for their career/job. So, I do feel that the message was wrongly sent with the image of the Murrah bombing and/or the image to be displayed during that message.

I think that I am leaning toward the line of thinking that the image of the historic bombing that impacted thousands of lives to be inappropriate for this specific message they are trying to get across to the people.

We love the firefighters. We need them. We want them. Yes. But do not ever stand behind such message that is "threatening" to manipulate us into agreeing with them (and/or the union, too), such as to oppose the proposed senate bill. The message is playing on human emotions to gain the votes/support against the Senator.

king183
03-24-2011, 10:26 PM
King183, you aren't well informed. We have had great success is stopping HB 1210, HB 1576 and HB 1577.

Well, I may not be very well informed on many things, but legislative strategy is not one of those things. And I can tell you that you guys were very minor in stopping those bills, most of which were withdrawn due to internal leadership issues and some of which are "stopped" because they were transfered to another Title or the Senate Bill.

bombermwc
03-25-2011, 06:35 AM
As I said in the very fist post when I started this thread....."whether you agree with the bill or not". My opinion on this has absolutely nothing to do with the bill. That's an entirely different subject. So don't try and tie them together and make something out of it that no one here has. It's just another very poor decision on the IAFF and local FF's. Taking ownership of a disaster like that....no way. You wanna say something about how the FF's are there when we need them and all, that's great, fine. But don't cloud the subject matter with what comes down to sensationalism.

I don't see EMSA, OCPD, the local hospitals, the rescue teams, FEMA, etc....basically ANYONE ELSE using the bombing for their PR. Come on, it's just bad taste. I happen to know at least one of the local Psychologists that helped counsel the rescue workers on site...maybe he should put a picture of the gutted out building on the wall in his office (sarcasm).

Stew
03-25-2011, 06:41 AM
I see nothing wrong with the ad.

Mikemarsh51
03-25-2011, 07:34 AM
King183, you are absolutely correct! We had nothing to do with defeating those bills. Between 800-1000 state firefighters walking the halls of the capital, lining up to speak to our legislators obviously did no good.

I don't see that add demanding anything. I see it as asking for support!

Wambo36
03-25-2011, 08:22 AM
As I said in the very fist post when I started this thread....."whether you agree with the bill or not". My opinion on this has absolutely nothing to do with the bill. That's an entirely different subject. So don't try and tie them together and make something out of it that no one here has. It's just another very poor decision on the IAFF and local FF's. Taking ownership of a disaster like that....no way. You wanna say something about how the FF's are there when we need them and all, that's great, fine. But don't cloud the subject matter with what comes down to sensationalism.

I don't see EMSA, OCPD, the local hospitals, the rescue teams, FEMA, etc....basically ANYONE ELSE using the bombing for their PR. Come on, it's just bad taste. I happen to know at least one of the local Psychologists that helped counsel the rescue workers on site...maybe he should put a picture of the gutted out building on the wall in his office (sarcasm).Sorry bombermwc, apparently we're all out of video of us pulling kittens from trees. Like Mike said, this ad is by a national group and I doubt they even asked any local FF's for their input. They may have, but I'm unaware of it.

Now let's get back to your first post. Have you called your buddy at the MWCFD and let him know the proper level of shame he and his dept. should be feeling about this? If not you need to get on the phone, they're IAFF members also.

You say this event affected everyone, and while I agree it affected everyone to a point, to what degree it affected everyone is a different story. I think you said somewhere on here that you were in Jr. High when this happened. Please tell us how this affected the rest of your life. How many of your classmates have had to be put on suicide watch because of it? How many of them will be on medication, possibly for the rest of their life, because of it? Yeah, I'm being facetious, but just to show you what an assinine argument you are making. You say you know one of the psychologists that were on site, that's great, because I'm related to one of them myself. I can promise that when your friend, the psychologist, goes out to speak somewhere or interviews for a job, the bombing comes up. You're fooling yourself if you think it doesn't.

You say you're upset with this ad because you see it as an attempt by the FF's to take ownership of the bombing? I have a different take on it.This thread appears to be just another way of venting your frustration with the OCFD and nothing else. If I'm wrong, let me know how your buddy in MWC is atoning for his callous and despicable actions in connection with this ad. That is after you let him know about them, of course. I'll try to follow his lead.

Wambo36
03-25-2011, 10:49 AM
The local firefighters have stooped to a new all-time low. Not that they care, but they have definitely turned off my vote after MAPS 3, city council election, and now this.Sid, re-read the above post by metro and you should have all of your answers. Pay special attention to the bold parts. Apparently, having a difference of opinion or being on the opposite side of political discourse is grounds for lifelong hatred and demonization. I've never thought so but, to some here, it apparently is.

bombermwc
03-25-2011, 02:19 PM
And I'll put this back to you....do you see ANY other group using the bombing as fodder for a campaign? There are other groups that were just as affected that are NOT using it. What gives the IAFF any right to claim it as their own? It's classless. And I would say that the local FF's should voice their displeasure with the IAFF's choise in the matter. It doesn't have anything to do with the local FF's...only those who chose to pick this for their ad. You can try and turn this into whatever personal battle you want, but that's not what I said from my very first post....how about you read the words and not what you want to make up behind them.

And don't keep feeding me the line about how FF's suffer. I'm well aware of what they do and how something like that affects them, but don't tell me a paramedic doesn't experience the same everything a FF did that day. And I don't see them using it in a campaign.

You find me a survivor of the event that was in the building that thinks it's ok for anyone to use footage like that, then come back to me. Until then, forget it.

metro
03-25-2011, 02:30 PM
Sid, re-read the above post by metro and you should have all of your answers. Pay special attention to the bold parts. Apparently, having a difference of opinion or being on the opposite side of political discourse is grounds for lifelong hatred and demonization. I've never thought so but, to some here, it apparently is.

You guys are killing your credibility every time you speak.


Thunder, that's the most intelligent post I've seen make. Thunder gets it but not the FF. Figures.

Wambo36
03-25-2011, 02:42 PM
You guys are killing your credibility every time you speak.


Thunder, that's the most intelligent post I've seen make. Thunder gets it but not the FF. Figures.Yeah, you're right, what was I thinking? That was so over the top as opposed to your reasoned and well thought out post.

Wambo36
03-25-2011, 03:30 PM
And I'll put this back to you....do you see ANY other group using the bombing as fodder for a campaign? There are other groups that were just as affected that are NOT using it. What gives the IAFF any right to claim it as their own? It's classless. And I would say that the local FF's should voice their displeasure with the IAFF's choise in the matter. It doesn't have anything to do with the local FF's...only those who chose to pick this for their ad. You can try and turn this into whatever personal battle you want, but that's not what I said from my very first post....how about you read the words and not what you want to make up behind them.You'll have to excuse us for not recognizing that you are the sole arbiter of what is or isn't classless these days. If it wasn't aimed at the local FF's then who were you asking "how could you stoop so low?"


And don't keep feeding me the line about how FF's suffer. I'm well aware of what they do and how something like that affects them, but don't tell me a paramedic doesn't experience the same everything a FF did that day. And I don't see them using it in a campaign.I don't recall saying anything about paramedics. What I asked you was, how did the bombing affect you for the rest of your life? And how do you think that compares to the people who were down there day in and day out (often off duty) for several weeks? You'll have to excuse us for feeling any more stake in it than you had in your classroom. As far as "feeding you a line about how FF's suffer", you're the one who called this bitch-fest. I almost never talk about the bombing but you're the one who got this thread started.

You find me a survivor of the event that was in the building that thinks it's ok for anyone to use footage like that, then come back to me. Until then, forget it.So I assume you've talked to some and have been appointed spokesperson? Tell you what I'll do, I'll call my friend who lost his daughter and unborn grandchild that day and see if he's as outraged as you are. I'll take my cue from him.

betts
03-25-2011, 03:42 PM
Why is it primarily these threads that sink to name calling and outrage? If I were a firefighter posting here, I'd make sure 50% of my posts were on threads that had nothing to do with my job. That way, I'd have some credibility and a little "political capital" here. Another example of you all shooting yourselves in the collective foot as far as public opinion is concerned.

Mikemarsh51
03-25-2011, 03:44 PM
Wambo, I think it is interesting that Metro has been deemed the one to decide what is credible. I have yet to have anyone come up to me, while getting groceries at the southside Wal-Mart and tell me we have lost our credibility!

Wambo36
03-25-2011, 05:35 PM
Why is it primarily these threads that sink to name calling and outrage? If I were a firefighter posting here, I'd make sure 50% of my posts were on threads that had nothing to do with my job. That way, I'd have some credibility and a little "political capital" here. Another example of you all shooting yourselves in the collective foot as far as public opinion is concerned.Wow, who would have thought it? A thread with the primary function of bashing FF's and betts would feel the need to weigh in. 50% you say? Is that what the standard is or just for us? I guess next time a thread starts with a post telling us how ashamed we should be and asking how we could stoop so low we'll just have to check our post to job percentages.

Wambo36
03-25-2011, 05:43 PM
Wambo, I think it is interesting that Metro has been deemed the one to decide what is credible. I have yet to have anyone come up to me, while getting groceries at the southside Wal-Mart and tell me we have lost our credibility!I hear you Mike. Apparently with betts new 50% post limit we need to just sit back and let bombermwc and metro steer the thread, no matter how misinformed they are. And standing up to inform them is deemed "shooting ourselves in the foot". Who knew?

metro
03-25-2011, 08:43 PM
Wambo/ Mike, people aren't going to say it to your face at the Sothside Walmart, but the results at the poll are a good indicator, as well as word of mouth.

Thunder
03-25-2011, 08:50 PM
I wonder if the firefighters on here is planning to protest the commercial? So far, I have not seen one soul of them striking back at the union freaks.

Its like this....

The house is on fire.
Home Owner: Help me! My cats are inside!
Firefighter: Do you oppose the senate bill?
Home Owner: No, I do not. Why do you ask?
Firefighter: Okay, listen, we will extinguish the flames to protect the nearby properties, but we will not rescue your cats.
Home Owner: *hysterically cries*

That is what the meaning of the message is saying to me in the video.

Mikemarsh51
03-26-2011, 10:31 AM
Metro, you do realize this message board and it's tiny number of posters isn't the real world right? I got on year about three years ago when Andy157 told me about it. I really kind of liken it to a fantasy football league. It's not the real world. It's a place where many of you can throw out phrases like "a lot of people" or maybe "everyone" or even "most", when you talk about your own opinions. I do not give a lot of credit to much of it. I would give some credibility to Casey Cornett for being related to the mayor. The rest of you "not so much"!

therondo
03-26-2011, 12:01 PM
All I can say about this thread is WOW!

Thunder
03-26-2011, 02:30 PM
Metro, you do realize this message board and it's tiny number of posters isn't the real world right? I got on year about three years ago when Andy157 told me about it. I really kind of liken it to a fantasy football league. It's not the real world. It's a place where many of you can throw out phrases like "a lot of people" or maybe "everyone" or even "most", when you talk about your own opinions. I do not give a lot of credit to much of it. I would give some credibility to Casey Cornett for being related to the mayor. The rest of you "not so much"!

This site is a real world...online version. We're real people. We discuss real things happening around us. :-)

bombermwc
03-28-2011, 10:38 AM
Hey Wambo, you know that the IAFF could have done? Just about anything else. And you can throw mud at me all day long, but I'm not making this a personal issue, you are. It seems every time there is any backlash against the FD, you and Mike think the whole world is out to get you. All the while you see posts here from people saying what poor choices the FD has made lately in their battles. This is just another one of those poor decisions.

I'm not one to go off on every commercial either, whatever your personal opinion is. But my point was, the bombing is not something you take ownership of. NO ONE SHOULD EVER use it as fuel for any campaign. NO EXCUSES!

venture
03-28-2011, 11:15 AM
So I heard there was a section on this board to discuss politics...hmm must have gotten lost trying to find it.