I vote for "The Oklahoma District."

I think this one has a good shot of sticking. I know for one Mayor Cornett will stand behind it.

...In all seriousness though I think the ship has sailed on SOSA, Urbanized. Now trust me that i have no dog in this fight AT ALL. But every single person I have ever had a conversation with about this particular neighborhood (who was familiar with it prior to the conversation) has called it SOSA. And this is a rather diverse collection of people I'm talking about.

Granted most people I encounter are unfamiliar with the district or its name, because they live in the sprawl somewhere.

Also granted this is just a collection of anecdotes.

There are obviously stakeholders in the area that like the SOSA name. It has also come to be known most by that moniker than any other name.

Here's my question. Why must the name be agreed upon by everybody? Why must there be an official name? Why don't we keep it the Cottage District, as is historically accurate, and use SOSA as it's well-known nickname? Why is it such a big deal to begin with? Are we agreeing upon a neighborhood name or satisfying the egos of people that have built within the neighborhood?

I don't like the name of my hood, so if I decide to coin a nickname for it that catches on, is that somehow innapropriate because some don't agree with it?

This is just an odd conversation honestly.

Oh and Spartan. There's more than one street with modern homes now. ;P

Granted most people I encounter are unfamiliar with the district or its name,...


This is just an odd conversation honestly.

Like Sayre's law, the battle is so fierce because the stakes are so small.

I don't have a dog in the fight either. Nor do I have a preferred name. I just know that there are some people who don't care for a name that was imposed on their neighborhood, like it or not, by a single individual. And I know that there are some who hope to take a more thoughtful approach to naming the district than accepting an edict via blog post.

I think the thing that most rubbed me the wrong way is someone casually dropping a link to a Wikipedia page that he created himself, and trying to pass that off as evidence that something is official. Bad, BAD form.

Hmmmm, what about

HillhousesGotsEyes District

I like 7-Up

the un neighborhood.

...I think the thing that most rubbed me the wrong way is someone casually dropping a link to a Wikipedia page that he created himself, and trying to pass that off as evidence that something is official. Bad, BAD form.

...a couple comments about your edit of the SoSA definition: 1) Your first sentence is a fragment (Bad, BAD from)... and 2) You're right: the name SoSA was not accepted by a majority of the residents... neither were ANY of the proposed alternate names, including Cottage District! (Though as I recall, SoSA was in the top-tier of vote recipients.)

Sounds like you're just upset that the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube.

PS: I like 7-UP too... "The un-neighborhood!"

Mostly I'm just upset by subterfuge.

Just call the area Emerson. That school has been there a long time. I even went there at one time years ago. Although I don't see why anyone would be upset with SoSA

Hmmmm, what about

HillhousesGotsEyes District

YESS!! My second favorite OKC-area subdivision name: Watchful Eyes

SoSA makes sense and that's what I call it. I doubt I'll ever call it anything else even if they change it.

The residents can officially name it whatever they want for business purposes, but it will from here on be CALLED SoSa. Not only is it perfectly descriptive (SOuth of Saint Anthony), but is easily remembered... and cool, to boot. People like it. So, it has great branding identity, but let's not let that get in the way of a provincial name. At any rate, when something is naturally good, it is HARD to change it. SoSa will be what it will be identified as, like it or not.

You're talking about Randy Floyd, who took her concerns to the public as she objected to the mod vision, and design review determined that modern infill was appropriate.

Actually, it didn't really. Staff hasn't been comfortable with all of the proposals - too many blank wells and turning away from the street, despite requirements and guidelines in the ordinance that require attention to the street. And Randy herself has done "modern" stuff now...

Actually, it didn't really. Staff hasn't been comfortable with all of the proposals - too many blank wells and turning away from the street, despite requirements and guidelines in the ordinance that require attention to the street. And Randy herself has done "modern" stuff now...

Randy is doing the house at 604 NW 7th, which is very modern and will be the largest single family home in the district.

It sits on a double lot just west of Emerson and I met the owners and took a tour last week. Even though only a shell, you can tell it's going to be *amazing*.

They are both devoted OKCTalk lurkers and when I jokingly mentioned they should host a future meet-up, they said 'Sure!'. Even after I told them I was joking, I was still told they want to do it.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/604nw7.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/604nw7042415.jpg

I also have no dog in this fight...but I like Sosa. Hard to understand the uproar.

The "uproar" - at least in this thread - wasn't about the name so much as it was about dishonest posting. I actually use the name myself (in the absence of a better option), but was sternly corrected recently by someone connected to the district who resents the way it was foisted upon them by one guy. The origination of name - despite comments here to the contrary - is the OPPOSITE of organic.

Anyway, I've probably said enough on the topic for someone who isn't personally involved. I shed some light on an attempt to deceive a poster who was asking an honest question; hopefully someone here understands and appreciates that.

The "uproar" - at least in this thread - wasn't about the name so much as it was about dishonest posting. I actually use the name myself (in the absence of a better option), but was sternly corrected recently by someone connected to the district who resents the way it was foisted upon them by one guy. The origination of name - despite comments here to the contrary - is the OPPOSITE of organic.

Anyway, I've probably said enough on the topic for someone who isn't personally involved. I shed some light on an attempt to deceive a poster who was asking an honest question; hopefully someone here understands and appreciates that.

I am not sure how I feel about the name SoSA. Did it originate here on OKCTalk? To me it sounds kind of cool but it also sounds like a ripoff of LoDo in Denver or NoDa in Charlotte. Furthermore, I don't think the neighborhood is far enough along at this point to have a well-established brand. Ask anybody where Bricktown or Deep Deuce or Midtown is and they can tell you. Mention SoSA and people who aren't invested in the community or who don't follow OKCTalk won't know what you are talking about.

This last week I've talked to several home and property owners in this area and they all call it SoSA.

Official or not, that name has taken hold.

In full disclosure I no longer have a dog in the fight as I sold my residence in the area a few years ago. When we started looking for lots in the area we referred to it as SoSA. When we listed the house for sale we referred to it being in the SoSA area. It was technically outside of the Cottage District so that didn't apply and calling it CBDII (or whatever the city zoning referred to it as) didnt make much sense either. I don't think anyone is on board with calling it Cottage district. I have heard some express that they didnt like the name SoSA but I also understand that not very many options were proposed that gained enough popularity to dethrone SoSA.

I am not sure how I feel about the name SoSA. Did it originate here on OKCTalk? To me it sounds kind of cool but it also sounds like a ripoff of LoDo in Denver or NoDa in Charlotte. Furthermore, I don't think the neighborhood is far enough along at this point to have a well-established brand. Ask anybody where Bricktown or Deep Deuce or Midtown is and they can tell you. Mention SoSA and people who aren't invested in the community or who don't follow OKCTalk won't know what you are talking about.

It originates with Dennis Wells, an architect who used to live in the district (in a modern house he designed). He has since moved out (to an OKC historic neighborhood) but he still strongly promotes the name.

Eh, there are maybe 100 people total in the world who could tell you what SoSA means. All of them either post on OKCTalk or live in the SoSA area. Whatever it ends up being called in the future, if it ends up being called anything, will be determined with time. This isn't something that anyone needs to get upset about.

Not sure Im a fan of a single family home taking up two lots in such an urban location. There should probably be more density in this area. But Im sure it will be a cool home when finished.

The "uproar" - at least in this thread - wasn't about the name so much as it was about dishonest posting. I actually use the name myself (in the absence of a better option), but was sternly corrected recently by someone connected to the district who resents the way it was foisted upon them by one guy. The origination of name - despite comments here to the contrary - is the OPPOSITE of organic.

Anyway, I've probably said enough on the topic for someone who isn't personally involved. I shed some light on an attempt to deceive a poster who was asking an honest question; hopefully someone here understands and appreciates that.

More of the story here: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10153169874867931&id=173960237930

The most critical part being the first paragraph, there was a conflict over the design destiny of his property, if not the whole area. The name and promotion of the name came out of that conflict, as a public service, offense, defense, "foisting", or what have you,* depending on how you want to view and characterize results, motives or actions of the people involved, or of DW individually as the origin and promoter of the name.

*E. All of the above.

I am not sure how I feel about the name SoSA. Did it originate here on OKCTalk? To me it sounds kind of cool but it also sounds like a ripoff of LoDo in Denver or NoDa in Charlotte. Furthermore, I don't think the neighborhood is far enough along at this point to have a well-established brand. Ask anybody where Bricktown or Deep Deuce or Midtown is and they can tell you. Mention SoSA and people who aren't invested in the community or who don't follow OKCTalk won't know what you are talking about.

I didn't realize Charlotte did that. How can something be a ripoff of something else that A) is becoming quite common and less specific; and B) nobody has ever heard of (outside Charlotte).

Mention anything and people who aren't invested or don't follow news won't know what you're talking about.

This debate is starting to sound like we can't have nice things, because other places have nice things, and it would just be a knock off of nice things.

Aren't they all ripoffs of "SoHo" in NYC which ripped it off an area of London that used the term back in the 1600-1700s? It's not original, but you have to begin to use a name for a place in order to establish it.

Yeah I'd say SoHo and TriBeCa are more well known than the others.

SoHo sounds a lot better than its old name of "hell's hundred acres."

Of course the London Soho was full of hookers and sex workers as recently as the 80's....so maybe not.

Hey, at least we don't have a DoWiSeTrePla like where Lily and Marshall lived on How I Met Your Mother. The real estate agent used that term to sell the neighborhood. Come to find it out, it stood for DOwn WInd of the SEwage TREatment PLAnt.

One of the rejected names was "NoCo" (North of the County jail)! ...See how thoughtful we were?

Without a defined center or edge based on the 5 minute pedestrian shed, this area shouldn't be called anything - and least of all a district. Drawing some arbitrary lines on an aerial photo isn't how this done. Picking a center (park, commercial area, significant intersection, etc...) that is the focal point of the surrounding neighborhood and establishing a roughly 1/4 mile ring around it is how it is done.

I would like to see the city coordinate an effort to do this very thing and then use it a guide for development.

Without a defined center or edge based on the 5 minute pedestrian shed, this area shouldn't be called anything - and least of all a district. Drawing some arbitrary lines on an aerial photo isn't how this done. Picking a center (park, commercial area, significant intersection, etc...) that is the focal point of the surrounding neighborhood and establishing a roughly 1/4 mile ring around it is how it is done.

I would like to see the city coordinate an effort to do this very thing and then use it a guide for development.

Your definition seems pretty clinical/textbook. But, to your point, wouldn't Saint Anthonys be the focal point in this case? It isn't always at the center. SoHo in NYC is SOuth of HOuston Street, not north and south of Houston Street. And, it isn't a point, it is a line. It is a neighborhood defined by relative position to a focal point (or line :) ).

All good questions.

Another good question (perhaps): What names then ARE acceptable? Only those that follow the current formula? _____ Hills, or ______Town? How does the name Morning Woods describe the subdivision on Covell in Edmond, or how does Gatewood describe the area between 16th and 23rd? I'm pretty sure there aren't any gates.

Deep Deuce is awesome and well-done. Core2Shore has grown on me (despite initially hating it because it was Riverside) because it has become synonymous with an aspirational civic vision. I like Philly, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh because they have these awesome authentic neighborhoods that everyone knows; You become a real city once all or most of your neighborhoods and districts connect. Over time they become branded with their history, demographics (for better or worse, this is the focus of most urban research), character, and boundaries. "SoSA" can allow for that to happen at least as much if not more than any other identity.

True, the focal point doesn't have to be at the center, for example - waterfront, but if you make St Anthony the focal point then that leads to other spatial problems with surrounding neighborhoods. If it was up to me I would call the area 5-Points after the Walker/10th/Classen round-a-bout and this area dubbed SoSA would be a relatively low-density boundary between 5-Points and some as yet un-named neighborhood south of it, with development patterns following the rural to urban transect.

This is why I would like to see the City lead an effort to do this correctly. The neighborhood is the fundamental building block of the City,so it is kind of important to get it right.

True, the focal point doesn't have to be at the center, for example - waterfront, but if you make St Anthony the focal point then that leads to other spatial problems with surrounding neighborhoods. If it was up to me I would call the area 5-Points after the Walker/10th/Classen round-a-bout and this area dubbed SoSA would be a relatively low-density boundary between 5-Points and some as yet un-named neighborhood south of it, with development patterns following the rural to urban transect.

This is why I would like to see the City lead an effort to do this correctly. The neighborhood is the fundamental building block of the City,so it is kind of iimportant to get it right.

The reason it is SoSA is because it doesn't want to be some relatively low-density hinterland between two better neighborhoods.

It's not some part of the hinterland. It is the T3 component of the 5-Points neighborhood which is adjacent to the the T3 component of some future neighborhood.

http://transect.org/transect.html

Then simply calling it "SoSA" leaves one less winded than that...

You just like the name SoSA - but you know I'm right :)

I do like SoSA!

How does the name Morning Woods describe the subdivision on Covell in Edmond

It's been changed. I guess someone finally told them what Morning Wood meant. I can't remember what the new name is. It's a typically forgettable subdivision name.

Oh, and fyi, it's Coltrane between 2nd and Danforth.

You become a real city once all or most of your neighborhoods and districts connect. Over time they become branded with their history, demographics (for better or worse, this is the focus of most urban research), character, and boundaries. "SoSA" can allow for that to happen at least as much if not more than any other identity.

Completely agree with this. That's one thing I really enjoy about Dallas. Most of their urban districts are interconnected and each has its own identity and branding. OKC is still a ways off but SoSA is the piece of the puzzle that will link Midtown to the Arts District and the CBD. It's still very early in its gentrification cycle but a brand identity definitely needs to be established. It would also nice to see some sort of mixed-use anchor to give the district a focal point.

Our "Arts District" is another funny thing. Not home to a single resident artist. The character is basically just superblocks with little sidewalk life.

All good questions.

Another good question (perhaps): What names then ARE acceptable? Only those that follow the current formula? _____ Hills, or ______Town? How does the name Morning Woods describe the subdivision on Covell in Edmond,

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/beavisbutthead.gif

Our "Arts District" is another funny thing. Not home to a single resident artist. The character is basically just superblocks with little sidewalk life.

That is because people went rogue and started drawing random lines ona map without actually plannng anything or even using the correct terminology. The Arts District is neither 'art' oriented nor a district. They should drop the name entirely and create a Civic District encompassing the area from City Hall to the county jail and should have mandated an art-deco motif for any new structures in or fronting the district. Alas, ball dropped.

Anyhow, I strayed from SoSA so my apologies.

I think the "Arts District" branding would be great if there were more arts-oriented attractions there. You have the Civic Center and the Art Museum but nothing else. There is plenty of surface parking all around this area waiting for development. Hopefully it becomes more attractive in a few years if/when ClayCo builds their residential tower and the 21c Museum Hotel is built to the southwest of the area.

The arts are alive in OKC.. In the Paseo, Plaza District, on Western Avenue, even in Bricktown and suburban downtowns like Edmond and Norman. The arts are not alive in the Arts District, nor is anything else.

That part of downtown is dead, and we killed it.

Emerson Park would be a proper name for this area IMO.

The arts are alive in OKC.. In the Paseo, Plaza District, on Western Avenue, even in Bricktown and suburban downtowns like Edmond and Norman. The arts are not alive in the Arts District, nor is anything else.

That part of downtown is dead, and we killed it.
Hmmm. Then why is that I visit that area more for "the arts" than any of the rest of the areas combined? You are also forgetting the housing coming to that area north of the Music Hall. It is far from a dead area and is on the way to much improvement.

The arts are alive in OKC.. In the Paseo, Plaza District, on Western Avenue, even in Bricktown and suburban downtowns like Edmond and Norman. The arts are not alive in the Arts District, nor is anything else.

That part of downtown is dead, and we killed it.
Except for Ballet, Symphony, Lyric, Broadway Series, OKC Museum of Art, The arts Festival, The Repertory Theater, and other art events, I guess you are right...no arts in the art district.

Mostly I'm just upset by subterfuge.

Very effective subterfuge! Our company refers to it as SOSA in all of our promotional materials. The name has definitely stuck with current and potential investors for new homes in the area. Why does it matter anyways? "Cottage District" just seems like another trial balloon that the Planning Department abadoned promoting in any meaningful way.

It's not some part of the hinterland. It is the T3 component of the 5-Points neighborhood which is adjacent to the the T3 component of some future neighborhood.

Center for Applied Transect Studies (http://transect.org/transect.html)


So your idea is to drop the SoSa name and instead name it after one of the worst crime ridden neighborhoods of pre 20th century New York?

Except for Ballet, Symphony, Lyric, Broadway Series, OKC Museum of Art, The arts Festival, The Repertory Theater, and other art events, I guess you are right...no arts in the art district.

Okay...

Lyric Theater
1727 NW 16th St, Oklahoma City, OK 73106

Ballet Oklahoma
7421 N Classen Blvd, Oklahoma City, OK 73116

OKC Phil
428 W California Ave #210, Oklahoma City, OK 73102 - YAY Arts District

And on and on, but you get my point. I'll definitely give you the OKCMOA, which is a fixed arts asset based in the Arts District. I'm pretty sure that the OKC Phil is the only arts organization that is fixed to the Arts District. Shakespeare in the Park is also worth noting as they've almost always (except during construction) been at the Water Stage.

We also tore down the Stage Center for an office building and parking garage.

Of course, I was referring to where the arts actually are happening, not the administration.

Lyric performance venue (largest audiences): Civic Center Also at Lyric at the Plaza in the winter months

Ballet Oklahoma performance venue: Civic Center

Canterbury Chorus performance venue: Civic Center

et cet, et cet, et cet. . .regardless of where "corporate" resides or other venues exist as with Lyric, the primary performance spots are downtown. . .in the Arts District.

Individual Artists of Oklahoma
706 West Sheridan Avenue

Artspace Untitled
1 NE 3rd Street

Womb
25 NW 9th

Istvan
1208 N. Western

I think it's a little odd and perhaps small minded to have The Arts District downtown and The Paseo Arts District, considering how close they are together. Makes more sense to me to consider all of it, plus whatever arts in the Plaza and elsewhere in the center of OKC as in The Central OKC Arts District. I never thought much about it until I got confused questions about it from a friend visiting from Denver and making the short hops between those areas. (I do know the history and the nature of the different personalities involved in the different areas. Most people don't.)

10829

Hmm. Seems to be catching?

edit: not sure why the image is tiny but Google Earth now has a marker labled SOSA at the SE corner of NW8th and N Lee.

Imagine is tiny because it's a thumbnail ;)

Imagine is tiny because it's a thumbnail ;)

no, its still tiny considering it was from a full screen cap :P

Saw some stuff the other day about the council talking about/approving a special event on Shartel along the 5-9th St. area for Slide the City to host an event. Check out their website and you can see what it is. Looks pretty fun.

http://www.slidethecity.com/

Saw some stuff the other day about the council talking about/approving a special event on Shartel along the 5-9th St. area for Slide the City to host an event. Check out their website and you can see what it is. Looks pretty fun.

Slide the City - Get ready for the Slide of Your Life (http://www.slidethecity.com/)

I believe this is the same sort of thing they did in Deep Deuce last year.

I believe this is the same sort of thing they did in Deep Deuce last year.

I wasnt aware of that. I imagine the Shartel location will be cool because that is a fairly steep hill. :dizzy: