About $1 mill a mile (depending on various factors) is what I have heard at corp commission. Very expensive.

I think the above ground power lines is pretty far down the list of things that could be improved in SoSA/Midtown. The area needs infill, lighting, and placemaking. The roads need to be repaved as well. Many of the roads in that area are almost third-world bad.

Just for perspective, it ended up being about $5k per pole + we footed significant additional costs including trenching.

bchris, I agree - but that's the remarkable thing about Midtown/SoSA. If you look at the list of projects at the top of this page or look at what's going on (and has gone on) in Midtown, you'd be hard pressed to find a better example of progress in infill, lighting or placemaking. These 2 areas don't bear any resemblance to what they looked like even 6 years ago when I moved back to the area. The city does have plans for at least redoing many of the alleys in the area (you can see the one already done between 7th and 8th west of Shartel). You have to have people living in the area before it makes any sense to redo the roads - but that's rapidly changing. Of course bad roads are a universal issue in the state for a variety of reasons.

About $1 mill a mile (depending on various factors) is what I have heard at corp commission. Very expensive.

Thanks for that figure, very interesting. Do you think that's worth it?

I tend to look at the big picture and think we could do much, much better things with $1M/mile. Overhead wires aren't that ugly. In a city there should be visual clutter, as long as its not "litter on a stick" signage or anything really tacky. An interesting example of how these things evolve is 1) in streetcar cities like Portland or European cities, the streetcar wires are really beloved, and 2) Route 66-style neon blade signs used to be considered tacky and garish visual clutter, and now it's truly public art and I for one am glad we have a program in OKC to encourage more of that signage. Route 66 vintage really should be adopted as our identity, and a great way to stand out as a unique major city, through visual queues.

Also with buried wires it can add unexpected costs to things like streetscapes, streetcars, and even simple repavings. I'm not for it.

Thanks for that figure, very interesting. Do you think that's worth it?

I tend to look at the big picture and think we could do much, much better things with $1M/mile. Overhead wires aren't that ugly. In a city there should be visual clutter, as long as its not "litter on a stick" signage or anything really tacky. An interesting example of how these things evolve is 1) in streetcar cities like Portland or European cities, the streetcar wires are really beloved, and 2) Route 66-style neon blade signs used to be considered tacky and garish visual clutter, and now it's truly public art and I for one am glad we have a program in OKC to encourage more of that signage. Route 66 vintage really should be adopted as our identity, and a great way to stand out as a unique major city, through visual queues.

Also with buried wires it can add unexpected costs to things like streetscapes, streetcars, and even simple repavings. I'm not for it.

That figure got pitched out after that last big ice storm and people were complaining the lines need to be buried in the residential areas like NH, Crown H, etc. Think Bob Anthony mentioned that as the reason it isn't done as much as the public would expect. So those numbers might not apply exactly - but suffice it to say it's expensive.

Another cost that is being overlooked here is the death of countless mature trees (especially in the case of Mesta Park and Heritage Hills). No matter how careful the crews are when burying the lines, its likely that a few dozen mature trees would die in the process.

Another cost that is being overlooked here is the death of countless mature trees (especially in the case of Mesta Park and Heritage Hills). No matter how careful the crews are when burying the lines, its likely that a few dozen mature trees would die in the process.I am a huge supporter of saving trees. There is a transplant option where you can remove the trees and replant them, but that still comes with a risk.

Look(I'm not directing this at you), if you want the city to look good, you're going to have to spend money. Nothing worth doing is cheap. There are a few areas like the Farmers Market district I think should have them as memories, but for the most part, I think every one of them should be buried except for the really large ones.

Yes, they do cost a little more up front, but they are protected from the elements, drivers, and other things. They make areas look much better when they are buried(I wouldn't be surprised if they cause property values to increase a little bit). Also, they will never have to move them for road relocation projects if they place them right and away from the road.

I am a huge supporter of saving trees. There is a transplant option where you can remove the trees and replant them, but that still comes with a risk.

Look(I'm not directing this at you), if you want the city to look good, you're going to have to spend money. Nothing worth doing is cheap. There are a few areas like the Farmers Market district I think should have them as memories, but for the most part, I think every one of them should be buried except for the really large ones.

Yes, they do cost a little more up front, but they are protected from the elements, drivers, and other things. They make areas look much better when they are buried(I wouldn't be surprised if they cause property values to increase a little bit). Also, they will never have to move them for road relocation projects if they place them right and away from the road.

Yes, things have a cost, you get what you pay for, and we should be doing things to the highest standard. Everyone is all for that.

The problem with buried utilities is it's just a bad idea all-around (especially the further-out that one is capable of thinking) just because some people can't get over visual clutter.

Yes, things have a cost, you get what you pay for, and we should be doing things to the highest standard. Everyone is all for that.

The problem with buried utilities is it's just a bad idea all-around (especially the further-out that one is capable of thinking) just because some people can't get over visual clutter.So now people are going to start arguing we need the visual clutter. Wow. Cities in Asia have tons of that.

Cities in Asia have lots of great urbanism. I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at.

The streetcars lines will provide a lot of overhead clutter.

Not sure I understand the problem with buried utilities except for a few that prefer overhead clutter to utility boxes in yards.

The streetcars lines will provide a lot of overhead clutter.

Not sure I understand the problem with buried utilities except for a few that prefer overhead clutter to utility boxes in yards.

Well, preferring one visual or another is irrelevant to most people. It's expensive, doesn't accomplish a lot, and can limit your options in the future. You want those roads routinely repaved so we can drive safely, right?

Cities in Asia have lots of great urbanism. I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at.
I'm advocating for less clutter and more openness. Be able to look around the city and not see wires everywhere; it's kind of nice. That's why I'm against the streetcar wires as well.

I'm advocating for less clutter and more openness. Be able to look around the city and not see wires everywhere; it's kind of nice. That's why I'm against the streetcar wires as well.

That's absurd. How can you be for openness while wanting to waste resources burying everything?

The streetcars lines will provide a lot of overhead clutter.

Not sure I understand the problem with buried utilities except for a few that prefer overhead clutter to utility boxes in yards.You can also bury utility boxes, although I'd prefer having a few utility boxes every mile or so vs. constant overhanging lines. In the neighborhoods that have them buried, there are utility boxes in people's yards, but they are few and far between. They can also be hidden, but usually aren't.

I see a lot of power outages announced in OKC and my parents did without power for a week due to ice storms a few years back. I thought the big advantage of underground utilities is reliability, especially in an area prone to wind and ice storms. I don't enjoy the clutter, but I think it "disappears" over time. It doesn't look modern and clean, and that may be the issue with many people.

I see a lot of power outages announced in OKC and my parents did without power for a week due to ice storms a few years back. I thought the big advantage of underground utilities is reliability, especially in an area prone to wind and ice storms. I don't enjoy the clutter, but I think it "disappears" over time. It doesn't look modern and clean, and that may be the issue with many people.Yeah. I know what you mean. Most of the time when I'm driving, I don't pay attention but I do often look up and think of how much better the area would appeal if they weren't there because when you look at something, you might not over think every little detail, but you subconsciously think on it and little things can add up. That's how I see it at least.

Two new ones up for approval next week: https://www.facebook.com/pages/SoSA/173960237930

Wow, this is impressive. A sequel to Lisbon Lofts?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1902086_10153086150572931_883869819274005536_n.jpg ?oh=84616a2b401748ac5035bc23b2eeef69&oe=5572A142&__gda__=1438163699_807819c0d4d04a76d01e453dce85410 c

I am really shocked to see a Mediterranean house! I like Mediterranean for a home... just surprised to see it in SOSA with the trend so bent towards modern design. Wonder if they will use all of Rick Dowell's buildings to claim a precedent.

I've updated the summary at the top of the page to reflect the newest construction.

Close to 40 projects now in this small area and more are coming.

Wow, this is impressive. A sequel to Lisbon Lofts?

Don't know where that image came from.

The prosal is just for the three units on the left; one in front, two in back.

This will be pretty

https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/1655423_10153086170397931_3840498762499880707_o.jp g

I've been updating the City Data OKC forum and plan to do so the same with Skyscraper Page.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/oklahoma-city/2323781-okc-development.html

Good to hear. City-Data is extremely biased towards Tulsa so its good to see some of the good things happening in OKC making an appearance over there.

Here is another one at 916 NW 8th; it's #36 on the map above and well under construction:



https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10346623_803658413000425_6001437206529612470_n.jpg ?oh=cd9feea8d1703cf041efe154209c52f5&oe=55AE4CE7

https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10509720_803658733000393_6457223940316014624_n.jpg ?oh=a294d1709c0ea2d61298cd8de6530e55&oe=5574572C


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10449499_803658813000385_1443086076423297413_n.jpg ?oh=4066dbf9025aabd788e65808e8433f24&oe=557CB447&__gda__=1433627949_d29bce7587e49e0e6e6ff81ffe9f57d 1


https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10922736_923366844362914_8360587128539502412_n.jpg ?oh=accf253cf04081ea56b2495a098f0e61&oe=55783F8A&__gda__=1438413142_e60e8ad5960b9a672f6083a632c3f71 a

All of this development is incredible. Really do wish prettier trees were planted and sidewalks kept in good shape.

I would like to include my house that I had built in 2005 at 619 NW 7th St on this list. please email me at kdubinmo@gmail.com.
Thanks Ken

I would like to include my house that I had built in 2005 at 619 NW 7th St on this list. please email me at kdubinmo@gmail.com.
Thanks Ken

I'll add it. Thanks for the suggestion.

For those who haven't done it yet, I highly encourage you to park your car and just walk up and down the streets of SoSA. It's like a parade of modern architecture and there are tons of interesting buildings under construction and a bunch more set to start.

This is Steve Mason's house. The second one is part of the pool that juts out to provide skyline views. There will be glass railings all around:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mason042115.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mason042115a.jpg

Seeing all this modern architecture in the SoSa district always makes me think of the Stahl house. I'd love to build a copy of that here and live in it. But where to build such a house in OKC to get a similar type of view to what the original Stahl house has?

After seeing the Sinatra/Patsy/Moby ballet this weekend, we drove around there after eating at Fassler Hall. It'd be so awesome to buy one of these (Atomic Ranch is one of my favorite magazines), but are they all already sold/built for someone already, are some built for spec, anybody know the average price? We'll have to start doing research, but I suspect they'll be priced out of our range, just wondering if anybody knew quickie facts off the top of their head?

After seeing the Sinatra/Patsy/Moby ballet this weekend, we drove around there after eating at Fassler Hall. It'd be so awesome to buy one of these (Atomic Ranch is one of my favorite magazines), but are they all already sold/built for someone already, are some built for spec, anybody know the average price? We'll have to start doing research, but I suspect they'll be priced out of our range, just wondering if anybody knew quickie facts off the top of their head?

House on 8th just west of Shartel is $550k....1950 feet. House under construction on 8th near Classen is $695k for about 2650 feet (approx on both). Half of the duplex on 8th near Shartel is $400k or $450k (i forget). Lisbon Lofts were in the $270 a foot range.

House on 8th just west of Shartel is $550k....1950 feet. House under construction on 8th near Classen is $695k for about 2650 feet (approx on both). Half of the duplex on 8th near Shartel is $400k or $450k (i forget). Lisbon Lofts were in the $270 a foot range.

Ouch, thanks, yep, too much for us, probably gonna go back to looking in our original area (Belle Isle-ish).

Ouch, thanks, yep, too much for us, probably gonna go back to looking in our original area (Belle Isle-ish).

That is a nice area! And that was truly off the top of my head so may be some other options of which i am not aware.

I've not heard it used outside of this site, so just curious, does "SOSA" get used in the real estate circles, architect circles, etc.?

That is a nice area! And that was truly off the top of my head so may be some other options of which i am not aware.

Every so often I'd search either 73106/73103 on those real estate for sale sites, and outside of a vacant lot listed for 65K a couple years ago, i want to say there have been a couple spec houses have showed up in the 200+/sq.ft range. Most recently it was more like 600K for 2400 sq.ft. type range. Somewhere in that range is what I remember. Its good those lots are getting gobbled up.

I've not heard it used outside of this site, so just curious, does "SOSA" get used in the real estate circles, architect circles, etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoSA,_Oklahoma_City

^^^^^^
Are you going to disclose that you are the creator of that Wikipedia entry and essentially the only contributor? And - if I recall correctly - that it is an acronym that was coined by you and certainly advocated by you in your blog a number of years ago? Merely throwing that Wikipedia link up there with no explanation seems intended to give credibility to a name that not everyone agrees on. I could just as easily go create a Wikipedia entry that calls the neighborhood OompaLoompaTown.

The City of OKC link referenced within still refers to it as the Cottage District, and I believe that even within the neighborhood there are differing opinions as to what it should be called. No disrespect, but I think there should be a naming process that includes the voices of others.

Hereby disclosed! Guilty. I actually like OompaLompaTown better… really has a nice ring! You should get started on the Wikipedia definition. :smile:

I agree with you 100% that there should be a naming process, though it’s very difficult to get “everyone” to agree on something. I suppose there are even those who want to keep it the Cottage District? Maybe someone needs to organize the community!

Whatever one wishes to call the area in general, the new cottages are certainly a lot more interesting.

This last week I've talked to several home and property owners in this area and they all call it SoSA.

Official or not, that name has taken hold.

There are some who aren't fans. I think right now it is "for lack of a better term", which shouldn't be the standard. I don't think anyone is championing Cottage District.

This last week I've talked to several home and property owners in this area and they all call it SoSA.

Official or not, that name has taken hold.

Agree with Pete - realtors all put that in their listings. Not sure how many people who are not focused on downtown housing know but most who are use that as the name.

For a lot of reasons, this area doesn't need an official name.

I like the name! Sounds urban. Lots of cool, contemporary housing being developed! Different for OKC, a good change for diversity!

SoSA is what it is. You could make the Cottage District argument, but the architects who had a vision for this area really just went out and achieved their vision. SoSA is an incredibly underrated story, but it's also not done and needs to mature into something that successfully meshes historic and modern. Until then it won't really blend with downtown, and nobody will know it exists.

It needs to "reach out" and mature into a comfortable environment not characterized by: vacant lots, construction, empty roads, scraggly tree, more construction, a one-off historic remodel, invincible weeds, a single street of new mod houses, tumble weeds, a lot more construction, and broken glass. Granted all that construction is awesome stuff, it's just not hospitable yet.

SoSA, like C2S, are great names. Every city wants something like LoDo or DUMBO etc but doesn't realize those have to evolve organically. I feel like this has, and as for C2S, different branding story, but it works.

Hardly an organic evolution. And the fact remains that it is in no way official, settled, or even agreed upon by all of the residents.

It needs to "reach out" and mature into a comfortable environment not characterized by: vacant lots, construction, empty roads, scraggly tree, more construction, a one-off historic remodel, invincible weeds, a single street of new mod houses, tumble weeds, a lot more construction, and broken glass. Granted all that construction is awesome stuff, it's just not hospitable yet.

This.

I have always looked at SoSA as western Midtown anyways moreso than its own distinct district, and many of the problems plaguing SoSA at the moment plague the greater Midtown neighborhood. The entire area needs 5-10 years to really develop and mature. It's important that good decisions are made because this area has the most potential for greatness.

Hardly an organic evolution. And the fact remains that it is in no way official, settled, or even agreed upon by all of the residents.

It evolved out of the neighborhood people themselves, unless you don't consider architects as people which well that is debatable :P. The reality about SoSA is that they have sold the SoSA vision to the point that it's now maybe half-way complete, and while certainly there are only so many local architects that can buy homes for themselves, now what seems to be happening is the architects are recruiting others. It seems to be working, as evidenced by Steve Mason, Bill Bleakley, Mike Morgan, and many other prominent locals...

I don't know how much more organic it could be. "Branding" and "organic" are like polar opposites, which I'm admittedly guilty of mixing up.

You don't have any clue what I find to be legitimate, so I will thank you not to speak for me. I am saying there are actual RESIDENTS OF THE DISTRICT who are not sold on the brand, which was mostly just pushed by a single individual and which merely filled a void because there was no other name being used. Stop presuming to speak for others, Spartan. It is seriously off-putting.

Whatever happened to Dewey Decimal District? That's a brand I could get behind.

You don't have any clue what I find to be legitimate, so I will thank you not to speak for me. I am saying there are actual RESIDENTS OF THE DISTRICT who are not sold on the brand, which was mostly just pushed by a single individual and which merely filled a void because there was no other name being used. Stop presuming to speak for others, Spartan. It is seriously off-putting.

You're talking about Randy Floyd, who took her concerns to the public as she objected to the mod vision, and design review determined that modern infill was appropriate.

Once again you are trying to speak for me and once again you are wrong. Randy is certainly documented as being against it, but there are a number of others who are against this particular name.

In all seriousness, what about something referencing the unique topography of the 'hood, like Hillside?

Urbanized sounds like a Republican... against everything, and for nothing. If you don't like the Cottage District what DO you like? This is a good a time as any to start promoting!

I vote for OompaLompaTown!

Once again you are trying to speak for me and once again you are wrong. Randy is certainly documented as being against it, but there are a number of others who are against this particular name.

And you accusing others of losing their cool on an online forum is rich. "Losing your cool on an online forum" is your ENTIRE PERSONAL BRAND.

Just use specifics. I would love to agree with everyone on here, or certainly more than I usually do.

Urbanized sounds like a Republican... against everything, and for nothing. If you don't like the Cottage District what DO you like? This is a good a time as any to start promoting!

I vote for OompaLompaTown!
So if someone disagrees with your position, attack them personally...I see how it works now! Sorry, I didn't get the amended rules for the forum. I'll try to think up a good zinger that attempts to devalue your person rather than your stance on a topic. BRB.

On a serious note, it doesn't matter what I like. It matters what a consensus of stakeholders likes. Sorry if that's a foreign concept.

In all seriousness, what about something referencing the unique topography of the 'hood, like Hillside?

Actually, from what I understand that approach is one possibility that at least a few residents are in favor of.

Urbanized sounds like a Republican... against everything, and for nothing. If you don't like the Cottage District what DO you like? This is a good a time as any to start promoting!

I vote for OompaLompaTown!

Allow me to direct you to the proper subforum (http://www.okctalk.com/politics/) for that kind of comment.

So if someone disagrees with your position, attack them personally...I see how it works now! Sorry, I didn't get the amended rules for the forum. I'll try to think up a good zinger that attempts to devalue your person rather than your stance on a topic. BRB.

On a serious note, it doesn't matter what I like. It matters what a consensus of stakeholders likes. Sorry if that's a foreign concept.

Good idea! Let's put it up for a vote right now! (I'd say everyone in this forum is a stakeholder.)

...Cottage District
...SoSA
...OompaLoompaTown
...Something Else