If someone bought it at a higher price, then they agree that it is cool enough to buy. To ignore the value of companies and entrepreneurs in America, or to demonize them is astounding. The way it works is, if they don't create value, no one buys it and the for profit doesn't make any.

BTW, if you or others are so altruistic, then you should have passed the lot on for what you paid so they could afford to build an EVEN COOLER home. Your profit taking reduced their ability to express themselves I guess. Once you took your profit, how ever you rationalize it, you became a "for profit" entity and the righteous indignation is forfeited. BTW, did you take a profit on the original home you sold, or did you donate the profits for the public good.

I don't understand why certain individuals expect more from business than they are willing to do themselves. If you don't believe profit is a worthy goal, then trade without profit.

Just curious what you do for a living and whether it is truly part of a for profit company.

Another gratuitous lecture.

My wife and I bought the subject lot to prevent someone sitting on it for "developmental control," and profit. We intended to resell immediately to an owner who intended to design and occupy a house soon. In the meantime someone wanted our existing house more than we did, so we sold it and decided to build on our new property. We spent several months designing our house. The design was approved by the UDC. Then life happened... we couldn't afford to build what we wanted, and we decided to buy an existing house and be done with it. We did just that, and sold the lot (VERY quickly) to an excited couple who intend to build their dream house. The lot was worth EXACTLY what the owner paid.

Because of their passion and love of the neighborhood, I bet their house will be much cooler than a profit-driven design.

Absolutely - actual people willing to invest more in a property have long been known to care more about the neighborhood.

If someone bought it at a higher price, then they agree that it is cool enough to buy. To ignore the value of companies and entrepreneurs in America, or to demonize them is astounding. The way it works is, if they don't create value, no one buys it and the for profit doesn't make any.

BTW, if you or others are so altruistic, then you should have passed the lot on for what you paid so they could afford to build an EVEN COOLER home. Your profit taking reduced their ability to express themselves I guess. Once you took your profit, how ever you rationalize it, you became a "for profit" entity and the righteous indignation is forfeited. BTW, did you take a profit on the original home you sold, or did you donate the profits for the public good.

I don't understand why certain individuals expect more from business than they are willing to do themselves. If you don't believe profit is a worthy goal, then trade without profit.

Just curious what you do for a living and whether it is truly part of a for profit company.

You just went all tea party on one of OKC's top architects... Congrats

A for profit architect. I just don't understand the animosity towards business and profit. For profit is developing a huge amount of downtown. There are lousy for profit and there are great for profit companies willing to invest and grow our city while hoping the redeem some value created. If you are going to preach the evils of for profit then don't take part in it. But profit motive is a huge engine for change and progress.

And I doubt an architect would say the best homes are designed and constructed by people who actually create their own designs and drawings and people just don't care as much about homes designed by architects.

I admire DWells and love his passion for SoSa, but he has been on record in the past in his (now-offline) blog and elsewhere with comments indicating disdain for older neighborhoods and buildings, more or less equating love for such things with some sort of character flaw. I fundamentally disagree. I think there is room for both modern architecture AND good HP in a city - especially in a funky eclectic neighborhood - and I'm pretty sure MOST architects would agree with that position. I also think that some people would prefer to live in historic housing that had not been dramatically altered inside, and that is a valid choice. Simply doing a spot-on renovation of an old property doesn't automatically qualify someone as a profiteer or as a person without vision.

The real question is whether or not the building in question is receiving a high-quality renovation, of which I have no idea. But if it is, I don't think it is fair to disparage someone for not wanting to dramatically alter a 100+ year old building simply for the sake of ego or for the sake of "the view".

I admire DWells and love his passion for SoSa, but he has been on record in the past in his (now-offline) blog and elsewhere with comments indicating disdain for older neighborhoods and buildings, more or less equating love for such things with some sort of character flaw. I fundamentally disagree. I think there is room for both modern architecture AND good HP in a city - especially in a funky eclectic neighborhood - and I'm pretty sure MOST architects would agree with that position. I also think that some people would prefer to live in historic housing that had not been dramatically altered inside, and that is a valid choice. Simply doing a spot-on renovation of an old property doesn't automatically qualify someone as a profiteer or as a person without vision.

The real question is whether or not the building in question is receiving a high-quality renovation, of which I have no idea. But if it is, I don't think it is fair to disparage someone for not wanting to dramatically alter a 100+ year old building simply for the sake of ego or for the sake of "the view".

Another reason why you and I virtual friends. :)

YES!! Hey, I need all of the friends I can get...

I just don't understand the animosity towards business and profit.

The biggest reason you don't understand is probably because this perceived issues largely only exist in your own mind. Any time anyone has a critique/opinion regarding any business or business practice (which is healthy), you post a diatribe about showing the proper deference to our capitalist Gods. Seriously, most posters here are very good with capitalism, rich CEOs, and profit. You don't have to convince us. The U.S. won the Cold War. Lol.

A for profit architect. I just don't understand the animosity towards business and profit. For profit is developing a huge amount of downtown. There are lousy for profit and there are great for profit companies willing to invest and grow our city while hoping the redeem some value created. If you are going to preach the evils of for profit then don't take part in it. But profit motive is a huge engine for change and progress.

And I doubt an architect would say the best homes are designed and constructed by people who actually create their own designs and drawings and people just don't care as much about homes designed by architects.
It is not that profit is evil; rather, that the making of a place should take precedence when discussing development and especially development of a neighborhood. Both of these as well as other objectives are desirable and achievable. That's certainly not to say that compromise should not occur. As Mr. Wells stated sometimes "life happens" and interferes with the best plans.

Passion about a place and what it can become is a goal that should never be devalued. Development should not be just about drawing lines to maximize the number of salable lots or leasable area.

dwells, what are you up to these days now that you sold 2 SoSA properties?

I admire DWells and love his passion for SoSa, but he has been on record in the past in his (now-offline) blog and elsewhere with comments indicating disdain for older neighborhoods and buildings, more or less equating love for such things with some sort of character flaw. I fundamentally disagree. I think there is room for both modern architecture AND good HP in a city - especially in a funky eclectic neighborhood - and I'm pretty sure MOST architects would agree with that position. I also think that some people would prefer to live in historic housing that had not been dramatically altered inside, and that is a valid choice. Simply doing a spot-on renovation of an old property doesn't automatically qualify someone as a profiteer or as a person without vision.

The real question is whether or not the building in question is receiving a high-quality renovation, of which I have no idea. But if it is, I don't think it is fair to disparage someone for not wanting to dramatically alter a 100+ year old building simply for the sake of ego or for the sake of "the view".

I have never disdained older neighborhoods and buildings, nor have I ever disparaged those who do. I lived in an old house before SoSA, and I live in an HP district now! I postulated that everyone in America has a love affair with the quintessential cottage (including me!), and that Thomas Kinkade capitalized on that fact. I did disparage those who believed that more rules rather than fewer rules would improve the future of a budding funky neighborhood. I promoted freedom of design while others lobbied for restricting freedom.

I share your thoughts regarding modern architecture AND historic architecture… there are places for both in any good city, and especially in funky eclectic neighborhoods. No argument there. And you’re right: simply doing a spot-on renovation of an old property doesn’t automatically qualify someone as a profiteer, or person without vision… but it does qualify them as not having as much skin in the game as someone who occupies their own design.

I simply stated an observation: Passion for a neighborhood results in cooler architecture than does turning a profit. (And that statement doesn’t belittle capitalism!)

The biggest reason you don't understand is probably because this perceived issues largely only exist in your own mind. Any time anyone has a critique/opinion regarding any business or business practice (which is healthy), you post a diatribe about showing the proper deference to our capitalist Gods. Seriously, most posters here are very good with capitalism, rich CEOs, and profit. You don't have to convince us. The U.S. won the Cold War. Lol.

LOL, I agree with what you're saying to said poster, but the Cold War never died, and is roaring it's ugly head again (look at Ukraine, Georgia, Sochi, Syria).

dwells, what are you up to these days now that you sold 2 SoSA properties?

I'm living happily ever after! (...see the seagull heading for the beach.)

...but he has been on record in the past in his (now-offline) blog and elsewhere with comments indicating disdain for older neighborhoods and buildings, more or less equating love for such things with some sort of character flaw.

Correction on my previous response: I do disdain historic preservation zealots who advocate protection of structures based only on age, rather than quality. I think that position is a result of ignorance... not character deficit.

The recent URS study (acknowledged as a "resource" by the City), recommended creation of an historic district that overlaps SoSA. This study definitely had character flaws... it identified "significant historic structures" that were built as late as the 80's and 2000's, that had ZERO historic significance. It, and similarly zealous attempts to preserve "history" should be critically examined. I do advocate preservation of truly historic structures. However, the designation criteria must be vetted for honesty. If not, our funky eclectic neighborhoods might be ruined.

Correction on my previous response: I do disdain historic preservation zealots who advocate protection of structures based only on age, rather than quality. I think that position is a result of ignorance... not character deficit.

The recent URS study (acknowledged as a "resource" by the City), recommended creation of an historic district that overlaps SoSA. This study definitely had character flaws... it identified "significant historic structures" that were built as late as the 80's and 2000's, that had ZERO historic significance. It, and similarly zealous attempts to preserve "history" should be critically examined. I do advocate preservation of truly historic structures. However, the designation criteria must be vetted for honesty. If not, our funky eclectic neighborhoods might be ruined.

Said study stated that a historic district may be created based on the extant resources. (http://www.okc.gov/planning/plans+studies/Resources/Phase%20III%20FINAL%20Report%209%2029%202011.pdf - see pages 20 and 21) The consultants were hired to complete surveys and basic historical analysis. They are historians and architectural historians, it's their job to recommend things. Notice that the City has not acted on the recommended residential HP districts. The document can still be a resource.

Your use of the word zealot is entirely distasteful. Also, your instance on saving "truly historic structures" destroys the essence of a historic district. How many "truly historic structures" exist on their own in your neighborhood, or Mesta Park, or Heritage Hills?

The funky, eclectic neighborhood will be ruined by the architectural free-styling that results in full-scale destruction of the historical character and the removal of the "fun" from the neighborhood. Part of the beauty, I think, is the juxtaposition of the traditional and the contemporary. Remove all the traditional and build only contemporary, and the district will lose all its excitement.

...Your use of the word zealot is entirely distasteful.

Whoa… Calm down. I just complained about preservation zealots. I didn’t insinuate that all historic preservationists were zealots. Most are reasonable, logical people. So, my use of the word zealot should only be partially distasteful. (You must admit though, that the zealots do exist.)

The entire neighborhood of SoSA is smaller than Quail Springs Mall. It’s a tiny “district.” Even if it were to go architecturally postal, it wouldn’t damage our tender urban fabric. I think OKC could survive a little urban design experimentation in SoSA.

I have never promoted contemporary-style hegemony for SoSA. To the contrary, I’ve promoted diversity and tolerance of multiple styles. Long live odd juxtapositions!!

This is me being calm.

Nm.

I noticed that there are still a lot of empty lots in SOSA but none that I can find for sale. Should I have my realtor send letters to the owners asking if they would be interested in selling?

This is a classic debate over whether HP is an art or a science. I practice it as an art because I consider myself nuanced and knowledgeable enough to discern quality. Most people do not even attempt to make that observation and thus practice HP as a science based on historical chronology of buildings and people who lived in them. Genealogy is not interesting to me nor is it something that I think should make lasting decisions for our built environment.

I came to professional HP practice from an urban design and public policy background, whereas most of the HP old guard came from a public history background and would rather be curating exhibits in a history museum or assembling oral histories. There is a vital place for this in our societies - that place is called a museum. Furthermore, that place requires no street savvy at all. Our streets are too dynamic to be a museum, whether we are talking about Shartel Avenue, Sheridan Avenue, or Salt Puddle Road.

The Main Street program was revolutionary in the last few decades because it pioneered a street savvy approach to HP. It is also the best economic development program we have. Just as this new guard of pragmatic and progressive preservationists is taking over, I think that this trend will forge significant new partnerships with other fields like architecture, planning, economic development, and design.

While we're transitioning toward a more agreeable future let's not hold the past against our respective sides. We all know architects and planners have done much worse things in the last 100 years than preservationists. :p

Does anyone have any new information about any of the projects going on in SoSA? Are these projects in their own threads and I am just not seeing it? Is this area still HOT or has the heat fizzled?

I assume with all the great projects going on in Midtown and Downtown as a whole, interest in this area may have died down... Anyone?

There have been several new projects but it's just a lot of work to find the plans and post them for every single house.

Here are some existing threads:

http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=824+NW+8th

http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=802+NW+8th

Does anyone have any new information about any of the projects going on in SoSA? Are these projects in their own threads and I am just not seeing it? Is this area still HOT or has the heat fizzled?

I assume with all the great projects going on in Midtown and Downtown as a whole, interest in this area may have died down... Anyone?

It doesn't seem interest has died down in the area, especially based on the price that recent empty lots have gone for lately. I was shocked to see the amount of work that was going on in the neighborhood yesterday and the traffic jam of work trucks on the block between Francis and Shartel on 8th Street!

This is what I saw yesterday:
1. Active work was being done on the new project on the SE corner of 8th and Francis and the new duplex on the north side of 8th st. on that block.
2. MASSIVE earth movement has been done on 824 NW 8th St. I wish I had taken a picture to post, it is impressive.
3. Concrete work started on the house immediately south of the 824 property (on north side of 7th street)
4. A picture of the dirt work for Lisbon Lofts (9th and Shartel) from a week ago has been posted in that thread. I can't see where any more real work has been done there.
5. We keep slogging away at our renovation of the 802 NW 8th St property. Almost all the windows are in and walls are up. We are working on final approval of the exact design of the parking lot renovation so we can start the outside work.

2. MASSIVE earth movement has been done on 824 NW 8th St. I wish I had taken a picture to post, it is impressive.
3. Concrete work started on the house immediately south of the 824 property (on north side of 7th street)


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/utegevan.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/by6unuze.jpg

Looks like someone is going to have their house above their garage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So excited to see all the movement in the area! I hadn't seen this thread updated recently and was wondering what was happening there!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/unehasu8.jpg

Drove by the condos on 8th St. between Francis and Shartel and it looks like there will be an Open House this Sunday between 2-4pm

I might go and be nosy!

That is awesome!!! Thanx for the updates man!!!!!!!!!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/unehasu8.jpg

Drove by the condos on 8th St. between Francis and Shartel and it looks like there will be an Open House this Sunday between 2-4pm

I might go and be nosy!

How much are the condos selling for? How many bedrooms?

How much are the condos selling for? How many bedrooms?

414,000 2 bed 2.5 bath. 2050 square feet

Meh.

Can someone please edit the name of this thread spelling out what SOSA stands for? It is bad enough to constantly use acronyms in daily posts without spelling out what it means but you would think that at least the title would say what it is. You can scroll and find a thousand references to SOSA throughout this site but never see what it means. Thank you.

Can someone please edit the name of this thread spelling out what SOSA stands for? It is bad enough to constantly use acronyms in daily posts without spelling out what it means but you would think that at least the title would say what it is. You can scroll and find a thousand references to SOSA throughout this site but never see what it means. Thank you.

South of Saint Anthony's.

South of Saint Anthony's.

X. Wrong.

Sammy Sosa owned a home here before he became famous. That's the rumor anyway.:)

SOSA - Somewhat Off Shartel Avenue.

Does any one know what kind of residence is going in at 828 NW 8th? I took a couple of pictures last week. 82778278

828 NW 8th:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/828nw8.jpg

Like it, Thanks!

Is work progressing fast on these? Hopefully they're not doing a little bit here and there approach

604 NW 7 looks a lot like Fallingwater, minus the scenic location of course.

See the article at the top of the page for a comprehensive summary of all the projects in SoSA and the surrounding area.

Almost 30 and about a dozen other lots have been cleared in the last few years, so more projects to come.

#24 in the article above is 626 NW 6th and they will be adding a rental unit constructed of shipping containers.

The main house is actually on the south end of the lot facing the alley and the rental will be on 6th.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/624nw6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/624nw6a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/624nw6c.jpg

Added #30 to the summary at the top of the page: the Town House Hotel.

My wife and I bought the subject lot to prevent someone sitting on it for "developmental control," and profit. We intended to resell immediately to an owner who intended to design and occupy a house soon. In the meantime someone wanted our existing house more than we did, so we sold it and decided to build on our new property. We spent several months designing our house. The design was approved by the UDC. Then life happened... we couldn't afford to build what we wanted, and we decided to buy an existing house and be done with it. We did just that, and sold the lot (VERY quickly) to an excited couple who intend to build their dream house. The lot was worth EXACTLY what the owner paid.

Because of their passion and love of the neighborhood, I bet their house will be much cooler than a profit-driven design.

An update on this property (809 NW 7th) which was bought for $67.5K in 2012, listed at $175K and sold in February 2104 for $140K.

It has now been sold again for $150K to a local LLC. What happened to the couple planning to build their dream home?

An update on this property (809 NW 7th) which was bought for $67.5K in 2012, listed at $175K and sold in February 2104 for $140K.

It has now been sold again for $150K to a local LLC. What happened to the couple planning to build their dream home?

I bought the lot from Dennis Wells. My wife and I had planned to build our dream home. Due to many factors (cost,time and finding another home we love we decided to sell the lot.)

With that, we sold the lot to someone whom we felt would build a single family home. Not a multiplex to make money off of

^

Thanks for the info. Sorry it didn't work out for you guys.

The buyer also recently bought a home in Mesta Park so I assume they will build and move to this new spot?

Hey OKCTalk! We are about to break ground on a project in SoSA and would like to post the renderings and some info. What is the best way to go about that?
https://www.facebook.com/HawesBrothers/posts/803658976333702

Proposal for 607 NW 7 looks pretty nice:

10056

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2602658

I'm having a hard time understanding how this will be laid out.

Hey OKCTalk! We are about to break ground on a project in SoSA and would like to post the renderings and some info. What is the best way to go about that?
https://www.facebook.com/HawesBrothers/posts/803658976333702

Nice!

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10275588_803658413000425_6001437206529612470_o.jpg
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10460639_803658733000393_6457223940316014624_o.jpg

That Wichita Mountains view from NW OKC is stunning...

2/12/2015

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7294/16512720242_fce05f70a6_c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/15893568273_17214f93a5_c.jpg

Skyline view from Sosa.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7292/16512720222_79d6699dfc_c.jpg

I f#cking hate these powerlines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Screws up the whole vibe of the place for me. They are so obnoxious. An urban district that is trying to become modern and we have above ground powerlines like we live in the 1950's. This sucks. That and the roads are bad. They are redoing an alley and it seems they are going to do more. Hopefully they'll bury the utility lines, add sidewalks, and redo the roads in concrete.

Does anybody know how much they are asking for the lot in the last picture?

PluPan, Oddly enough not everyone is in favor of replacing overhead lines, see this article in today's San Diego paper

Neighborhoods balk at undergrounding wires | UTSanDiego.com (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/feb/14/underground-utility-power-box-backlash/)

PluPan, I guess everybody's mileage varies on this. Our (historic) neighborhood has them. My house is on a corner, so we've got them running down the entire side *and* back of our property. If you sit and think about it, they do look ugly. But you get used to it and then you don't see them any more. I guess I kind of see it as part of the urban experience, unlike the completely-sanitized look of suburban/new neighborhoods. But I do see your point.

The power lines in Midtown/SoSA don't bother me near as much as all the gravel parking, grassy lots, and dirt roads.

PluPan, Oddly enough not everyone is in favor of replacing overhead lines, see this article in today's San Diego paper

Neighborhoods balk at undergrounding wires | UTSanDiego.com (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/feb/14/underground-utility-power-box-backlash/)
Wow. Yeah I know SA had some ambitiously plans to bury a lot of them and they are proceeding. You also to remember, there are a lot of people out there who will complain about anything. For me though, it's just personal opinion of burying them.

PluPan, I guess everybody's mileage varies on this. Our (historic) neighborhood has them. My house is on a corner, so we've got them running down the entire side *and* back of our property. If you sit and think about it, they do look ugly. But you get used to it and then you don't see them any more. I guess I kind of see it as part of the urban experience, unlike the completely-sanitized look of suburban/new neighborhoods. But I do see your point.
Farmers Market has them and I like them there because they add to the charm. I can definitely see your point though. I know several people who like them. I don't have a big as problem with them in historic neighborhoods, but in Edmond, they line every road. Plus it seems they wouldn't have proems with wind, ice, storms, and such.

I would prefer them buried but I think it is an unnecessary expense for the most part if they are fully functional being overhead. I guess that I just grew up with overhead wires and are so used to them that I don't really see them anymore.

I agree that the neighborhood would look better with the lines buried. I can tell you, from personal experience, that OG&E has shown no interest in this happening. We are in the process of finishing up burying lines and removing 2 poles from one of the alleys and it was like pulling teeth to get that done. It took forever to get it done and was expensive.