Here's another one for Steve; was getting off at NW 10th exit from 235 southbound and noticed on the NE corner, they recently installed the new handicap ramp on the sidewalk vut put the light pole directly in the middle of the ramp, no way a person in a wheelchair could get up the ramp. Whoever is in charge of this stuff needs some quality control.

This is unbelievable. Seriously, guys, how does this get by a city planner, engineer, or designer? I truly want to know who looks at that and thinks it's a good idea.

It looks like there is 3ft on the street side of the pole. If so, that is passable.

Cuatro, I'll try to snap a picture straight on from the other direction. Either way it's inexcusable and poor oversight. If we're spending millions on all these new sidewalks and ADA compliance, we need some quality control, it just looks stupid if nothing else.

"There's no room for a ramp there without moving the stoplight or control box, but what the hell lets put a ramp there anyway".

This is probably what they were thinking. Now that people are noticing the obvious blunder, the city will now have to fork over more money to move the stoplight and rebuild that part of the sidewalk.

if it meets ada standards .. which i'm sure it does .. then i don't see a big problem .. does it look great maybe not but the money to move that light poll doesn't come out of thin air

This is just pathetic. Even if it is passable, a person in a wheelchair would have to get dangerously close to the road to get around it.

Boulder, you're correct that the money doesn't come out of thin air, which is why the city should have done it correctly in the first place.

Also, compliance with ADA isn't enough, at least in my opinion. Not only should we comply with the ADA, but we should foster a good pedestrian experience downtown, especially in the way we build our sidewalks. By placing a light pole directly in the middle of the sidewalk, they failed on the latter idea.

Boulder, you're correct that the money doesn't come out of thin air, which is why the city should have done it correctly in the first place.

Yep. And how do we get them to do it right next time? I think our only option is to make them fix it this time.

Are you saying that ADA rules are a guideline and have no legal merit? I am nearly 100% positive you can get sued for not complying with ADA standards in modern construction. Just ask the local school districts.

It does look vary ignernt, but it also appears to be passable, and if it is, there is no functional problem to overcome.

It does look vary ignernt, but it also appears to be passable, and if it is, there is no functional problem to overcome.

passable for who, a smaller person in a wheelchair, or one of the many overweight people around town that you see going down the middle of the STREET in a motorized scooter, such as a Hoveround? In addition to the bulkier scooter, the person themselves stick out a good 6 inches or more on both sides. As someone else said, the design of this was an afterthought, and flat out embarrasing to OKC's image.

One word: Wow.


if it meets ada standards .. which i'm sure it does .. then i don't see a big problem .. does it look great maybe not but the money to move that light poll doesn't come out of thin air

Well yeah, that's where we are now, but that light pole was just put there... ? This is an accomplishment in stupidity.

passable for who, a smaller person in a wheelchair, or one of the many overweight people around town that you see going down the middle of the STREET in a motorized scooter, such as a Hoveround? In addition to the bulkier scooter, the person themselves stick out a good 6 inches or more on both sides. As someone else said, the design of this was an afterthought, and flat out embarrasing to OKC's image.

You're far more embarrassed than the silliness of it all would warrant, at least in my opinion, but hey, knock yourself out.
as for the Q of who ... the latter. Though we've never met, I'm reasonable confident I'm a bit better versed in the space requirements for large folk and their near magical motorized contraptions.

However, if you're back near that corner soon and are so inclined, slap a tape measure down and click off some shots so we're working with specific distances. I have no issue against revising my perceptions based on hard data.

You guys make lots of assumptions. It's entirely possible that it needed to be in the middle of the sidewalk due to wiring, not just because you're smarter than everyone.

Looking to but a investment property near 200 block of NE 14 . whats you think, used to be soooo scary over there does it have a chance of coming back

Some of you are asking for too much. You have sidewalks. You have ramps. You want them to to usable too? LOL LOL LOL

You guys make lots of assumptions. It's entirely possible that it needed to be in the middle of the sidewalk due to wiring, not just because you're smarter than everyone.

Uhhh...

Looking to but a investment property near 200 block of NE 14 . whats you think, used to be soooo scary over there does it have a chance of coming back

The HSC are has a ton of cheap, nice historical houses, I can't figure out why this area hasn't come back yet, I guess because it has east in the address

Per request, I went out there today with a tape measure. 46" clearance on the north side of the pole, 50" on the south of it. I don't care what anyone says, it's a tight fit for someone in a wheelchair or motorized scooter. I'm a tall, athletic guy and just walking on one side was close enough, not to mention do we want to make people in a wheelchair have to barely squeeze through and hit it at just the right angle. Stupid IMO.

Steve, feel free to post these on your blog or send to the city, just give me credit for the photos (although bad quality).

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/CIMG6984.jpg

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/CIMG6985.jpg

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/CIMG6986.jpg

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/CIMG6987.jpg

It meets both the spirit and letter of the law by quite a bit (ADA requires 36" clear). The most elegant solution? No. But it works.

Metro,,,nice work with the camera, especially as of late.

If I were in a wheelchair or not, there is much more to be concerned about than this light pole being in the center of the sidewalk. Look at all of the other adjoining sidewalks here, and I am not seeing a crossing signal here either.

We really have a pathetic sidewalk system unless you are at NW 164 & Western or Memorial and Penn.

Why is it that the places that need sidewalks and crosswalk the most have the least, and the areas that use them the least have the most?

You're right. Not only that, I wish I would have taken a pic of the NW corner. They made it facing south, but no entry/ramp facing the NE ramp (the one in the picture). It's pathetic the way there is no oversight to these new ramps. I'm ecstatic that we're doing it, just wish their was better oversight. Alot of the ramps don't make sense and I've not seen ramps built elsewhere the way we are doing some of them (with the massive curbs, weird angles, etc.).

I'm a tall, athletic guy

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRe1e72Oaaw9pr8rIG5zK8tQPfWVtn7m 1pc16AZ9bIiA-6Mcxt6

Thank you for taking the time metro.
FWIW, I do agree it's possible for a pathway to be both ada compliant AND still look weird.
This is indeed one of those times.

This reminds me of when I lived in Mustang near the intersection of Czech Hall Road and Highway 152. New ramps were constructed at the intersection and, when they were built, the ramps emptied out into the street and not into the crosswalks. They had to be immediately torn out and rebuilt. It makes you wonder about the common sense used by some planners or designers.

Per request, I went out there today with a tape measure. 46" clearance on the north side of the pole, 50" on the south of it. I don't care what anyone says, it's a tight fit for someone in a wheelchair or motorized scooter. I'm a tall, athletic guy and just walking on one side was close enough, not to mention do we want to make people in a wheelchair have to barely squeeze through and hit it at just the right angle. Stupid IMO.

Steve, feel free to post these on your blog or send to the city, just give me credit for the photos (although bad quality).

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/CIMG6984.jpg

Agree completely (and thanks for the pics)!

Just a thought and although it would still look stupid, think how much added clearance there would be if the support base had been made flush with the ramp (instead of raised).

i still don't see a big problem .. maybe its not ideal but .. over 4 feet on one side and almost 4 on the other .. is plenty enough space ...

i still don't see a big problem .. maybe its not ideal but .. over 4 feet on one side and almost 4 on the other .. is plenty enough space ...

+5

+5

-6

i still don't see a big problem .. maybe its not ideal but .. over 4 feet on one side and almost 4 on the other .. is plenty enough space ...

Because just OK is good enough.....

Because just OK is good enough.....

Good thing we didn't have the same thought with the Ford Center, huh?

Good thing we didn't have the same thought with the Ford Center, huh?

They kinda did.
Fixed it later though <VBG>

They should be saving all of these poles-in-the-middle-of-sidewalks for South Robinson, where it would actually have a semi-constructive use. Just ask bbates.

They kinda did.
Fixed it later though <VBG>

:omg:

Now, now...we were told repeatedly the Ford was state of the art and other glowing terms...but that aside, I was talking about the attitude of it being good enough, the improvements wouldn't have been voted in. 'Cause the City insisted the improvements were needed anyway, NBA or no NBA.

They should be saving all of these poles-in-the-middle-of-sidewalks for South Robinson, where it would actually have a semi-constructive use. Just ask bbates.

<<rimshot>>

... We really have a pathetic sidewalk system unless you are at NW 164 & Western or Memorial and Penn.

Why is it that the places that need sidewalks and crosswalk the most have the least, and the areas that use them the least have the most?

Apparently lots of streets are going to get sidewalks,maybe, eventually, sometime, judging from all the orphaned ramps that have been built on corners on MacArthur, May, etc. :dizzy:

I don't the dispute with the pole is technical accessible. Again, it is technically sufficient for a car to squeeze down an 8' road, but if we started to build roads that way tomorrow, there would be a lot of upset people.

To me, it is no different than : http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanreviewstl/2091459436 Urban Review SLT (http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanreviewstl/2091459436)

or http://swamplot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/costco-weslayan-walk-4.jpg swamplot (http://swamplot.com/costco-greenway-commons-sidewalk-obstacle-course-fun/2008-10-27/)

and here in OKC: http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/11/23/why-3/sidewalk-close OKC Central (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/11/23/why-3/)

It just doesn't make for a healthy urban environment. Since this is an area we are all hoping will grow with development, it is sad to see a lack of resolve to do it right.

It is one thing to leave traffic light and telephone poles if it were already installed but speed limit signs and no parking polls, ah.

Apparently lots of streets are going to get sidewalks,maybe, eventually, sometime, judging from all the orphaned ramps that have been built on corners on MacArthur, May, etc. :dizzy:

Yes, as previously discussed many times, OKC passed a GO Bond Issue in 2007 that includes almost a BILLION dollars of new road and sidewalk construction and repaving. Also we were about to get sued by the Feds by not being ADA compliant. Additionally MAPS 3 includes a few million for sidewalks.

Why does it seem that Okc is starting sidewalk work from the outside edges of the metro working their way in?

It seems there are more new sidewalks on the outer fringes of the city than there are inner city i.e NW164th, SW 119th.

Are sidewalks now part of a requirement when you build new in the city? I've come to that assumption (maybe wrong though). If so, then that would explain why it seems the outer fringes have more sidewalk development than the inner-city, as they primarily have a lot of new development. The inner-city has been getting sidewalks though also, and the core of the city already has sidewalks in place, albeit mostly worn and torn. I think sidewalk replacement should be prioritized on the inner-southside and northside where a lot of people walk regardless the lack of sidewalks.

Why does it seem that Okc is starting sidewalk work from the outside edges of the metro working their way in?

It seems there are more new sidewalks on the outer fringes of the city than there are inner city i.e NW164th, SW 119th.

Yes and no.

Believe they changed city codes a few years ago that required sidewalks in new development (since most of those are in outlying areas, that adds to the perception). Sidewalks are part of the 2007 bond issue whenever street widening is called for (think most of the that is non-core as well). Then as others have mentioned, MAPS 3 has $10M for sidewalks that may be missed in the bond issue (geared more towards public places like libraries, schools etc).

on edit: mostly what Architect2010 posted :-)

Yes, as previously discussed many times, OKC passed a GO Bond Issue in 2007 that includes almost a BILLION dollars of new road and sidewalk construction and repaving. Also we were about to get sued by the Feds by not being ADA compliant. Additionally MAPS 3 includes a few million for sidewalks.

Thanks for the info, didn't live here between 1995 and 2009, so wasn't aware of much of anything happening here between those dates. Just strange that they'd build the curb ramps, but nothing else. Maybe that was just enough for OKC to not get sued? "See, we're ADA compliant, wheelchairs can get up to the sidewalk from the street. Yeah, there's only 2 more feet of sidewalk after the ramp, so what's your point?"

Thanks for the info, didn't live here between 1995 and 2009, so wasn't aware of much of anything happening here between those dates. Just strange that they'd build the curb ramps, but nothing else. Maybe that was just enough for OKC to not get sued? "See, we're ADA compliant, wheelchairs can get up to the sidewalk from the street. Yeah, there's only 2 more feet of sidewalk after the ramp, so what's your point?"

I asked a person supervising a concrete pour on some of those awhile back and was told it was stimulus money paying for the ramps.

Thanks for the info, didn't live here between 1995 and 2009, so wasn't aware of much of anything happening here between those dates. Just strange that they'd build the curb ramps, but nothing else. Maybe that was just enough for OKC to not get sued? "See, we're ADA compliant, wheelchairs can get up to the sidewalk from the street. Yeah, there's only 2 more feet of sidewalk after the ramp, so what's your point?"

Anytime they reconstruct streets and or curbs, ADA requires these ramps, sidewalks will be added as funds are available.

^^^
Now if the sidewalks CONNECT with the ramps.....

Lets hope.

The ramps I was told were paid for by federal stimulus money were put in up and down Council last winter when no road improvements were being done. None have happened since either, nor have connecting sidewalks.

OKLAHOMA CITY – It likely comes as no surprise to most Oklahomans that federal stimulus dollars are paying for the installation of new wheelchair ramps at intersections in and around Oklahoma City and Tulsa. The surprise would be that many of these pristine ramps lead nowhere.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11690769

Not really that surprising as it has been that way for years now. A few years back, they installed ramps on the corners along SW 36th (Grand Blvd). Then a couple of years later when they put in the paved trail along it, sometimes they connected, sometimes on the opposite corner and sometimes would come within a couple of feet of connecting. Someone else in another thread said it was due to different funding (federal for the ramps) but why can't someone connect the dots?!

OKLAHOMA CITY – It likely comes as no surprise to most Oklahomans that federal stimulus dollars are paying for the installation of new wheelchair ramps at intersections in and around Oklahoma City and Tulsa. The surprise would be that many of these pristine ramps lead nowhere.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11690769

Thanks for the story, it is pretty silly that they're doing this since they've actually had to demolish/cut the curb, then rebuild it with a ramp at a lot of intersections since they just did a quick strip-and-overlay on the street and didn't do anything to the sidewalks. Oh well....