The city-owned Walker/Sheridan garage is directly across the street and not fully utilized.

Plus, there is lots of under-developed properties to the west that would work just as well and not take a prime development block.

I wouldn't rule it out, this city is just about myopic enough to do that. It would be a new low, but maybe after all that just makes it all the more likely.

Remember do not rule out Stage Center and the importace it will have in the redevelopment of the area.. I am going on county assessor to check if a group of attorneys have bought the theatre..Can anyone confirm this sale

Hmmm county does not show a sale yet!!! I will check on it tomorrow..

I ran into Nick Preftakes' wife. I pressed her for info to no avail.

I ran into Nick Preftakes' wife. I pressed her for info to no avail.

Did you say excuse me for running into her?

Reno, maybe it's just me, but it would seem odd to put out an RFP and then quietly sell the subject property off in the midst of the RFP.

Reno, maybe it's just me, but it would seem odd to put out an RFP and then quietly sell the subject property off in the midst of the RFP.

(Assuming we are talking about Stage Center and its impact on Preftakes' property) Unless none of the RFPs are realistic or credible. My guess is that none of them will yet be funded but will be a proposal on what is POSSIBLE IF funding is achieved, with an estimate of amount of time needed to achieve funding. If there were an outright purchase on the table now by someone with credibility it would be sold in a heartbeat.

Rover, my point is I'm thinking if Stage Center were sold, that would be announced rather rapidly, in order to save others the time/expense of prepping an RFP since that solicitation period remains open. I just can't see the controlling group for SC leaving the RFP open post-sale. Could be wrong.

Not sure if there was a Coney Island Hot Dogs specific thread so I'm putting these here. Had a chance to sit down for lunch with Steve today for about two hours. First time I've had a chance to sit down with him one-on-one and talk about things. His son likes to play chess with Bill the owner. Steve loves this place a lot.

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3707.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3708.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3709.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3715.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3728.jpg
Young Bill

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3737.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3742.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3744.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3750.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3753.jpg
Main is still tore up in front of his business.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3754.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3761.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3782.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3785.jpg

I absolutely adore Coney Island. When I say it's one of my favorite places in the world, I'm not exaggerating. I really hope it survives for years to come so I can take my son there. Thanks for posting these pictures!

Great pictures!
I'm all for upscale and modern and expensive and we need more of that in OKC. But interesting cities absolutely have to include places like Coney Island. The contrast of high-end to salt of the earth, historic to new is what makes urban areas so interesting. I really hope we don't wipe out the last vestiges of this kind of place downtown. Save Coney Island!

And I don't mean some reincarnation of Coney Island in an office building lobby. We need structures like their current home.

Great pictures!
I'm all for upscale and modern and expensive and we need more of that in OKC. But interesting cities absolutely have to include places like Coney Island. The contrast of high-end to salt of the earth, historic to new is what makes urban areas so interesting. I really hope we don't wipe out the last vestiges of this kind of place downtown. Save Coney Island!

Could not agree with you more!

Good to see so many people inside there even with the crazy construction right in front.

I think those three little buildings are relatively safe, as the historical building direct east isn't going anywhere and there isn't enough space to really do much with those properties.

Perhaps the Lunch Box could be relocated to that empty corner building? You know their structures are almost certainly going to come down in the near future.

You mean the former department store facing Hudson?

Keep in mind that Coney Island is in a 3-story historic building, which by all means, is significant. I hope that doesn't come down.

Here's my best guess as to what is going to happen on this block...

#'s 1, 2 & 3 stay and get renovated. Perhaps the Lunch Box moves to 1&2.

4 is going nowhere and neither is 15.

11 (bus station) may be saved but perhaps it becomes part of a larger parking garage along with the city parking, 9, 12, 13 & 14.

10 will probably stay and be renovated to a different use; perhaps residential.

5, 6, 7, & 8 are going to come down and a large building will go up in their places. #10 could be a part of this as well.


Just some educated guesses based on what I know (like over $15 million already invested in this block) and what I'm hearing.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/misc/precor4.jpg

That is pretty much assuming very minimal historic preservation effort will be made. The funny thing is at least for now, developers still have to give a pretty good reason to tear down historic buildings. I was under the impression that we had codes that protected historic buildings, and codes that did a lot of other things as well. I guess I was mistaken about the city codes existing, but nonetheless, he can still expect a fight if that's what he is going to do.

The old car hotel may need to stay as a compromise but something big is going to happen on that block which will hold a lot of sway when it comes time to make compromises, ala Sandridge.

So you know something Pete? Or are these educated guesses?

Here's an interesting story that was told while me and Steve were eating lunch at Coney Island yesterday.
One of the workers who has been there for 5-6 years asked Bill the owner one day what the heck is in the two floors above them. Bill said he had no clue and wasn't that interested but said sure go ahead and check it out. So the guy gets a maglite and takes the stairs up and it's pitch dark. He said he got quite a ways into there when suddenly the flashlight goes out on him. He had to feel his way back. He went back and said there's not much up there. Old porcelain sinks and something else he said "crumbled in my hand" that I can't remember what. Steve asked if there was any old photos or newspapers, but there was nothing. Everything is bricked/boarded up so you can't see anything. It used to be a hotel up there. I'd love to get up there some day.
I've always hoped they would open it up and recreate the arched brick windows there. You could do so much with it.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3744.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/HarbourLongmire-Main%20Place/harbourlongmire2.jpg

Someone pointed out that Carpenter Square looks like it was intended to be a larger building...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch162011-2.jpg

I guess I could post the old Carpenter Square photos again...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Carpenter%20Square/barons4.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Carpenter%20Square/barons2.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Carpenter%20Square/barons6.jpg

Wish they could turn it back into street shopping again.

Here's my best guess as to what is going to happen on this block...

#'s 1, 2 & 3 stay and get renovated. Perhaps the Lunch Box moves to 1&2.

4 is going nowhere and neither is 15.

11 (bus station) may be saved but perhaps it becomes part of a larger parking garage along with the city parking, 9, 12, 13 & 14.

10 will probably stay and be renovated to a different use; perhaps residential.

5, 6, 7, & 8 are going to come down and a large building will go up in their places. #10 could be a part of this as well.


Just some educated guesses based on what I know (like over $15 million already invested in this block) and what I'm hearing.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/misc/precor4.jpg

1, 2, 5, 6, 7, & 8 are all likely to disappear. Bank on it. Only 4, 10 and 15 are unquestionably safe (DDRC won't allow them to be razed). I suspect 3 and 11(Coney Island and the bus station) will be spared for the same reason, but can't guarantee it. With all that in mind, look at this map again and I think many questions asked in other threads will begin to be answered...

Here's a newer map.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/preftakesblock.jpg

Why would it be more likely that Pizza Town's building would be razed that Coney Island's? Has Coney Island just been there longer than Pizza Town and thus is regarded as more historically significant?

The Coney Island Building is one of the city's oldest structures, built circa 1902. Pizza Town building was erected a half century later, some say architecturally it's far less significant.

The Coney Island Building is one of the city's oldest structures, built circa 1902. Pizza Town building was erected a half century later, some say architecturally it's far less significant.

Thanks for the info.

As significant as the bus station is, I would gladly trade 5, 6, 7 and 8 for it. I really hope Carpenter square gets reused.

When Preftakes reaches out to me, this is the advice I will provide.

As significant as the bus station is, I would gladly trade 5, 6, 7 and 8 for it. I really hope Carpenter square gets reused.

I agree, while it has a nice Art Deco design, it doesn't interact with the street that well or have the various reuse possibilties that 5, 6, 7 and 8 do.

Of course, I might love what is put in their place if it's sufficiently urban and has ground level retail.

I agree, while it has a nice Art Deco design, it doesn't interact with the street that well or have the various reuse possibilties that 5, 6, 7 and 8 do.

Of course, I might love what is put in their place if it's sufficiently urban and has ground level retail.

I've never been in the Greyhound station but suspect that it would make a great restaurant with an incredible garden patio in lieu of the concrete parking lot. Of course, another skyscraper would be nice too. lol

If you look on Google streeview, or especially Bing Maps streetview, it looks like 5 was fairly recently renovated and has the appearance of a residence.

http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#5003/0.6002=q:oklahoma+city:nelat:33.6388666233283:nelo ng:-111.643096875:swlat:33.3798933766717:swlong:-112.522003125:nosp:0:adj:0&p=c/5872/lat=35.467769&lon=-97.520396&alt=340.56&z=30&h=-183.2&p=1.3&pid=5082

I've never been in the Greyhound station but suspect that it would make a great restaurant with an incredible garden patio in lieu of the concrete parking lot. Of course, another skyscraper would be nice too. lol

I was just in it recently and there are a ton of possibilities for that location. I imagine it being a nice, retro diner...

Does OKC own building #4? Is Preftakes not trying to buy it? It is hard for me to believe that Preftakes is acquiring these properties if the whole block is not available to be leveled and used by what ever party he is representing.

Lookie what I just found...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Motor%20Hotel/MotorHotelParkingGarageandOrangeBar17-19NHudsonAug151956.jpg
Motor Hotel - August 15 1956

Can you believe they had a place to eat here (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=201+W+Main+St,+Oklahoma+City,+OK+73160&hl=en&ll=35.466997,-97.519417&spn=0.001919,0.002779&sll=35.338247,-97.484076&sspn=0.01087,0.02223&oq=201+w+main+oklahoma+city&vpsrc=6&hnear=201+W+Main+St,+Oklahoma+City,+Oklahoma+73160&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=35.467237,-97.519524&panoid=mnAHe-eEaTARB_43fvKvVw&cbp=12,245.45,,0,-9.21)?

Wow...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/HarbourLongmire-Main%20Place/Harbour-LongmireFurnitureCompany420WMainc1928.jpg
Harbour-Longmire (Main Place) in 1928...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/Coney%20Island%20Hot%20Dogs/IMG_3751.jpg

1, 2, 5, 6, 7, & 8 are all likely to disappear. Bank on it. Only 4, 10 and 15 are unquestionably safe (DDRC won't allow them to be razed). I suspect 3 and 11(Coney Island and the bus station) will be spared for the same reason, but can't guarantee it. With all that in mind, look at this map again and I think many questions asked in other threads will begin to be answered...

I may be stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the inference is that block of buildings will be razed for the mystery tower.

I may be stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the inference is that block of buildings will be razed for the mystery tower.

I agree...

If I had my way, ideally the tower would be built on the parking lot on the north side of Main, west of the Hightower.

if i had my way, ideally the tower would be built on the parking lot on the north side of main, west of the hightower.

what i have been saying all along!

If I had my way, ideally the tower would be built on the parking lot on the north side of Main, west of the Hightower.

I think that would be a good site for a 10 to 15 story parking garage with ground level space for rent on both sides of the structure. Of course, I wouldn't minid if the City built a new tower on the same site on top of the parking garage and vacated their current building on Main so it could then be converted to residential/hotel.

I think the city is looking at part of this block to build new parking garage? If so, a skyscraper will be built at that site. That would save developer of the potential skyscraper millions, because they wouldn't have to build a parking garage. Main Place, Auto Hotel, and Hotel Black will probably be saved, everything else will be razed.

I wouldn't be surprised if Main Place is to be converted to residential. It would make sense for Devon to build spec tower at this site, they can 50% of the new the building, and leave other 50% for future growth of Devon. Also, they may have a good relationship with Continental Resources, and co-occupy the building. Nonetheless, we'll know soon!

Will, I like your new map but remember my original one showed the Preftakes-owned properties in color; everything else is owned by others.

Carpenter Square is going to come down. It's a pretty large footprint and only one level on a key corner. The facade is pretty cool but remember those black and white tiles are not original and are all falling off. There is probably a way to preserve the facade and use it elsewhere... Otherwise it's just a big square one-floor building that offers little.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/misc/precor4.jpg

Whatever happens, they need to put that canopy back on. They should also track down whomever took it off and give them a boot to the head.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/HarbourLongmire-Main%20Place/Harbour-LongmireFurnitureCompany420WMainc1928.jpg

:iagree: 1000% Someone should get kicked in the shin......but then again, what condition was it in when it was removed?

:iagree: 1000% Someone should get kicked in the shin......but then again, what condition was it in when it was removed?

Then it should have been fixed/replaced, but never removed.

I guess I could post the old Carpenter Square photos again...


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Carpenter%20Square/barons6.jpg

Wish they could turn it back into street shopping again.

I dj'ed a rave in the basement of this building.

This is a great example of how the Preftakes block can incorporate the old with the new, with minimal razing of older structures. Below is a pic of BG Group Place in Houston, which sits right next to a historical building:

https://www.p4sc.org/sites/default/files/BG%20Group%20Place_Twilight%5B1%5D.jpg

That is nice. I suspect that is closer to what Kerry would want to see in terms of setbacks (minus the parking lot across the street).

I could go for that. I'll see if I can find a picture but there is a building in New York City that retained the facades of the old building and built the new built up out of them. BTW - this is something I would like to see Wal-Mart do in small town America to bring life back to Main Street.

Here it is:


The former six-story headquarters building was commissioned by the founder, William Randolph Hearst and awarded to the architect Joseph Urban. The building was completed in 1928 at a cost of $2 million and contained 40,000 sq. ft. The original cast stone facade has been preserved in the new design as a designated Landmark site. Originally built as the base for a proposed skyscraper, the construction of the tower was postponed due to the Great Depression. The new tower addition was completed nearly eighty years later, and 2000 Hearst employees moved in on 4 May 2006.


http://nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID124.htm

Before:
http://nyc-architecture.com/MID/hearst1a.jpg

After:
http://wirednewyork.com/real_estate/hearst_magazine_building/images/hearst_building.jpg

I am not a fan of the executon either, but I like the theory. I would have prefered that they continue with the same architectural style all the way up. I wonder what the orginal 1930 design looked like.

There are other places i have seen where towers were built cantilevered and used the airspace above a single small building that was historical and/or the owners didn't want to sell. They sell the air rights instead of the parcel of land. It not only preserved the smaller building, but also protected it.

I think that building is gorgeous, old meets new.

I agree. There is a clear possibility here for, at least Carpenter Square, to be re-used in an elegant way, not unlike the Hearst building in NYC. Granted, Carpenter Square may not have the monumentality of the base of the Hearst Building, but it still has incredible potential.

Below is my own idea of ideal massing for that corner. It makes use of the existing facades (which could be de-constructed and then put back into place) and makes a courteous nod to the heights of its neighbors to the west and south. This, IMHO, is how current urban development should take place. There is an effort made to blend in while still meeting square footage and modern convenience requirements.

Devon started with a clean slate and was therefore able to make a grand statement; Sandridge missed a prime opportunity with the India Temple although they are (to a degree) redeeming themselves now with the Braniff building. Let's hope that Preftakes learns from both and makes this development one that both he and the city can be proud of.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8318229/Carpenter%20Square%20Highrise.jpg

That's also what I would like to see. All it takes is the right person with the right ideas.

I can digg it!

And then taking that one step further....of-course while saving the architectural and historical gem of the Union Bus Station!!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8318229/Carpenter%20Square%20Highrise%20Plus.jpg

I can x2 digg it!

And then taking that one step further....of-course while saving the architectural and historical gem of the Union Bus Station!!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8318229/Carpenter%20Square%20Highrise%20Plus.jpg

Great model! The school is going to be taller and L shaped. I think four or five stories?

I can see something like that happening...

Yes, but no way does it get built on top of Carpenter Square of those other two small buildings on Main.

Nope. Didn't even notice that when I first saw the rendering.