Here's the row of buildings west of Carpenter Square and Harbour-Longmire.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/harbourlongmire.jpg

Devon is going to buy the block from nick. This is just a strategic buy and hold

Since we know Devon programmed their tower and other buildings to meet their business needs far into the future, this could only be for development of another sort -- probably housing and /or a hotel.

At least Devon has tons of money and could put up something on a large scale... Maybe this will be our first mid- to high-rise condo structure.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/W%20Main%20St/jenkinsmusicco2.jpg

Bing Maps (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=35.467768~-97.520313&lvl=20&dir=0&sty=x~lat~35.467768~lon~-97.520313~alt~340.56~z~30~h~168.3~p~6.1~pid~5082&app=5082) for current view.

What we are calling the Carpenter Square building was built in 1939 so there must have been a tenant before Baron's.
It's been awhile since I researched that (in 2007) but my common method is (1) get a street address if I don't have one for a building, (2) search the Oklahoman's archives for address matches, and (3) look in the assessor's records. Although I don't recall with certainty, probably the oldest tenant I could identify in the Oklahoman's archives was a 1946 tenant to match the address, 400 W. Main. Chances are that the construction date was from the assessor's records. I'll take another look and post again here if I get any better information.

UnFrSakn Awesome Job,

I neeed a photo of the south west corner of Walker and Sheridan or grand same name.. Its caddy corner to the bus station I will be glad to pay you for it. Its where my grand pa's store was and my parents restaurant was back in 50's. Cannot find anything on line OK Historical has nothing. . Where I grew up now its a gravel parking lot that devon uses for all there workers. man I will owe you big time if you can pull it off... thanks jp

Ran across this earlier.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/W%20Sheridan/oklahomaindustrialfinanceco.jpg

Bing Maps view (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=35.466043~-97.519523&lvl=20&dir=0&sty=x~lat~35.466043~lon~-97.519523~alt~340.29~z~30~h~309.5~p~11.9~pid~5082&app=5082)

Found this also. Will this work?

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/W%20Sheridan/eastongrand.jpg

Bing Map view (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=35.46647700000001~-97.52161099999998&lvl=20&dir=0&sty=x~lat~35.466477~lon~-97.521611~alt~340.53~z~30~h~104.3~p~5.5~pid~5082&app=5082)

Is that Walker?

#11 Bus Station
http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2730/R010018260001uA.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Union%20Bus%20Station/unionbusstation4.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Union%20Bus%20Station/unionbusstation3.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Union%20Bus%20Station/unionbusstation2.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Union%20Bus%20Station/unionbusstation1.jpg

I'm planning on putting these and more in with the video I'm working on.

March 3 2011

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Union%20Bus%20Station/2011/unionbusstation.jpg

Love that building! I would love to see it as something other than a Greyhound station. Why don't we buy the Greyhound station, sell Greyhound the current city bus hub and put the city bus hub at the new hub?

It's been awhile since I researched that (in 2007) but my common method is (1) get a street address if I don't have one for a building, (2) search the Oklahoman's archives for address matches, and (3) look in the assessor's records. Although I don't recall with certainty, probably the oldest tenant I could identify in the Oklahoman's archives was a 1946 tenant to match the address, 400 W. Main. Chances are that the construction date was from the assessor's records. I'll take another look and post again here if I get any better information.
More on Carpenter Square

The County Assessor's record (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R010018385) for 400 W. Main shows the top part was a one-story building but with a larger basement than the top floor, and it shows a 1939 construction date.

An April 23, 1939, article, while discussing the Davis Bros. building at 412 W. Main, noted in passing that the building previously located at 400 W. Main by Merilyns (Ready to Wear) had been earlier destroyed. I can confirm that ads show Merilyns to be a tenant from 1933 until 1938 at the former 400 W. Main location (as were several other occupants going back at least far as 1904 (Minnetonka Lumber Co.). I could locate nothing about the current building's construction (which the assessor's records show as 1939). I could find no mention of anything located at this address after 1938 until Baron's ran an ad for employees in "Oklahoma City's newest shop" on November 22, 1942. I could not find a grand opening ad but it would presumably be December 1942 or January 1943.

Here's an excerpt from a 2007 blog article, http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2007/03/downtown-hotels.html which is located at 408-410 W. Main (I think). Not too long after I wrote the article Anita Sanders sold the property to Mr. Preftakes ... pretty interesting story, the kinds of things one won't get with a shiny new building, that's for sure:
*************************************
The Swan/Howard/New Albany/Wren. What's a hotel? How is a "hotel" different from a "rooming house" or a "motel?" Doug Dawg doesn't know. Downtown in days gone by had several places that might be called, "rooming houses," but which which were sometimes called, "hotels." This is one such facility, and it still stands today.

A friend and colleague of mine, lawyer Anita Sanders, owns this property today at what is now called, "410 West Main." It is between Hudson and Walker, two buildings east of the old Harbour Longmire Building which is now called, "Main Place." Although her offices are on the first floor, she tells me that (it is said ... and I think that she may believe it) ghosts of guys and/or gals gone by may still inhabit the presently unused second floor. Judging by the article I'll mention in just a bit, Doug Dawg wouldn't doubt it!

The Building Today (pic taken by Doug Dawg on March 29, 2007) (click for larger)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/hotels/wren01s.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/hotels/wren01.jpg)

Ms. Sanders is quite proud, and rightly so, of acquiring this vintage property and converting and restoring it into office space, and she furnished me with many pages of documentation as to her own research of the building. Sad to say, it does not seem that she nor I have located an image of this building in the days that it was a "hotel." We'll just have to make the best of it ... close your eyes and think back to 1913 or 1910. Think old-timey vertical telephones, think horses & buggys with some cars around here and there ...

Ms. Sanders' documentation dates the construction of this building in 1913. However, I searched the Oklahoman's archives and found want ads placed there by occupants of the "Swan hotel" and/or "Van Swan rooms" as early as 1910. One article described a lawsuit petition filed against the owner (for breach of contract to sell items of furniture, etc., which may have wound up in the hotel) and said that Ms. Van Swan had owned the hotel since July 1910.

Whether a "hotel" or "rooming house," temporary residents were on the 2nd floor ... 408 1/2 W. Main ... and commercial tenants occupied the first (408 and 410 W. Main), ranging from Singer Sewing Machine to Dixie Shops and others. As for the "hotel", its name changed over time ... originally the Swan, then the Howard, and New Albany, and the Wren (for only a year's time, in 1934).

But, in that year, 1934, the year of the Wren, the building earned its niche in Doug Dawgz Blog! More particularly, on July 19, 1934, a raid of the then called "Wren Hotel" was made during a police crackdown on bad guys. OCPD Detective D.A. Bryce (aka legendary sharpshooter "Jelly Bryce" (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/957612/posts) of later FBI fame), when Ray O'Donnell, a hotel resident, pulled a gun and gripped it in both hands, got 5 rounds back from Detective Bryce, ending his lifetime on this planet! The police were looking for Harvey Pugh, companion of Clyde Barrow (as in "Bonnie & Clyde").

The July 19, 1934, Oklahoman is shown below. Click for larger.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/hotels/wren02s.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/hotels/wren02.jpg)

Want more? See the book at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Oklahoma-Justice-Gunfighters-Gangsters-Terrorists/dp/1563112809):

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/hotels/wren03.jpg

*************************

That's a great book, by the way, and I highly recommend it.

Hey Doug, I remember reading that blog post on that building a while back but couldn't find it again last night to save my life.

I too have also been wondering if he was just buying and holding for a flip. I could see Devon building condos and a hotel on the property, but hopefully won't Sandridge everything and decide to restore.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Carpenter%20Square/barons3.jpg

How do you NOT restore a great old building like this? It's just so perfect.

To "SandRidge something" is a phrase I can get behind.

Can I coin it since I was the one who used it? I'm thinking about making some T-shirts, "don't Sandridge our history"

It is so amazing how urban Oklahoma City was. It's also so sad to see what it is today -- even as it's begun its "renaissance." It had so much density -- a truly urban environment. I know so many people are committed to bringing it back and working hard to do so, but allow me a moment of sadness as I peruse this old images.

It is so amazing how urban Oklahoma City was. It's also so sad to see what it is today -- even as it's begun its "renaissance." It had so much density -- a truly urban environment. I know so many people are committed to bringing it back and working hard to do so, but allow me a moment of sadness as I peruse this old images.

It is probably best if you try not to think about it. My mom collected old postcards at one time and she bought one that had been sent by someone who moved to Oklahoma City from Chicago. The author was trying to pursuade family and friends to come to Oklahoma City becasue it was so modern, lively, and had lots of things to do. Much better than Chicago he said. It was dated some time in the very early '50s.

Man oh man was it urban, my dad tells me stories about all the greeks and lebanese people who lived down there around NW 7 and Western. You had so much European Immigrants living downtown it was incredible.. I showed my Mom the old pictures and she almost started crying. She was like i used to eat lunch there, thats where I shoped, That was my old business before we moved it down the street. OKC really messed up downtown I am glad to see it come back.. UnFrSaKn you made my parents day, but I still am looking for the pic of the IOOF building you did get the very corner of it.

My video shot from March 3 will be up shortly.

That pic is deceiving and bad angle

How's this for an angle?


http://vimeo.com/20668298

94 photos via Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157626198271750/)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-1.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-3.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-7.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-8.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-13.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-18.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-19.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-20.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-21.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-28.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-25.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-27.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-35.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-36.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-43.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-59.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-66.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-70.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-71.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-74.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-90.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-92.jpg

I think should help with the discussion we're having.

What would be more innovative is if the one and two story buildings with interesting architecture could be incorporated into a new higher density development using just their facades. That would still give us a historical context for that area.

You could do something like this but to a smaller extent of course.
http://alexrossmusic.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/hearst_tower_4.jpg
Here's a crude rendering:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5299/5498248703_fe70dc0f12_b.jpg

UnFrSaKn, your video and stills above are simply outstanding. Thanks so very very much.

What was the name of the frame shop that used to be in one of the old Main Street store fronts? Heckers? Whatever happened to them? I always thought they were awesome. Still got a lot of stuff hanging on my walls that they had a hand in making......

What was it close to? Nearest street?

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/W%20Main%20St/westonmainrobinson.jpg

View today (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=35.467604~-97.516422&lvl=20&dir=0&sty=x~lat~35.467604~lon~-97.516422~alt~341.08~z~30~h~299.4~p~3.9~pid~5082&app=5082)

What was the name of the frame shop that used to be in one of the old Main Street store fronts? Heckers? Whatever happened to them? I always thought they were awesome. Still got a lot of stuff hanging on my walls that they had a hand in making......

Was it called Markers?

Was it called Markers? Nah, it was definitely Heckers - I pulled something off the wall here at the office and sure enough there's a gold sticker on the back that says "ROBERT E. HECKER ART CO." which was celebrating 50 years of existence (1930-1980) - looking at the pictures on pages 2 & 4 of this thread, I am pretty sure Heckers was in the space that is shown right next to the Kinney shoe store - now, I'm not saying they were there when those Historical Society photos were taken as I only discovered Heckers for my framing needs in the late 80's - but I do know they had one of those nice deep storefronts with a lot of window display space like this last shot from UnFrSaKn's post
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Carpenter%20Square/barons5.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/W%20Main%20St/jenkinsmusicco.jpg

I looked at this and I'm not entirely sure it's the same place. Maybe they changed the buildings, I don't know. If it was next to Kinney Shoes, it would be the building with the diamond shapes across the top.

You could do something like this but to a smaller extent of course.
http://alexrossmusic.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/hearst_tower_4.jpg
Here's a crude rendering:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5299/5498248703_fe70dc0f12_b.jpg

With all due respect..

I beg of you, PLEASE don't do that. Either keep only the existing facades or renovate the insides. JMO

Well, if it is added onto, it would be recessed (dropped back) so as to preserve all of the original facade's integrity.

Because nothing is happening now, my fear is that Pretakes is waiting to own the whole block, so he can tear it all down. If you were wanting to individually renovate, why not do it now, while all of downtown is torn up anway? That way, you'd have everything shinied up and ready to go when Devon opens and the streets are done. I suppose there's a bit more time for that to happen, but still, I worry.

Last I heard he was waiting to announce plans until he could buy the bus station.

Last I heard he was waiting to announce plans until he could buy the bus station.

Precisely why I'm worried. If you were renovating individual buildings, the bus station could be done later. If you're tearing down a significant portion of the block, you might as well wait until you have all the properties.

Here is a direct quote from the Precor website. http://www.precorruffin.com/index.html


Historic Renovation - Investing in the Past for Profit

PrecorRuffin’s experience and expertise in the adaptive reuse of historic properties and placing them into service as income producing investments is unique among real estate firms in the region.

PrecorRuffin has mastered the complex puzzle of balancing market economics with historic preservation. This expertise not only protects the ability to capture valuable investment tax credits, but also provides the potential for extraordinary return on investment.

Projects of distinction include converting a 1930’s 3-story warehouse into Oklahoma City’s first loft apartments with drive-to-the-door parking; renovating a 1919 automobile dealership into dramatic loft offices; as well as the re-creation of the landmark C. R. Anthony Building into a modern, class “A” office building which beckons you into downtown. Each of these projects captures the historic feel and nature of the building while generating significant returns.

Precor definitely prides themselves on historic preservation.

It certainly sounds like he is assembling with the intention to flip to Devon.

Devon has done things right every step of the way, so I'm not going to worry too much about this.

And as long as they replace what is there with something very high quality and high density, some demolition wouldn't be the worst thing.

History Channel did a segment on the Hearst Tower (the one above) about "green" buildings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearst_Tower_%28New_York_City%29

PETE YOU ARE CORRECT SIR... Devon is going to want that property.for what i do not know.

I hope whatever Devon has in mind it doesn't include plazas, flower beds, and/or fountains.

I hope whatever Devon has in mind it doesn't include plazas, flower beds, and/or fountains.

I strongly agree.

I might get criticized for this, but I also think that their plaza space along Sheridan at the new headquarters is too much. Ideally, the garden wing would abut Sheridan with retail along it. There would still be adequate plaza space directly south of the rotunda and between the tower and the Colcord.

That is a little ridiculous. They are building the tallest building in the city and building a huge building right beside it. I think they are fine leaving a small plaza in front of it. I agree that the block in question shouldn't be torn down but I think the Devon comment is taking the density thing too far.

Me too, but I was happy that the added auditorium helps to enforce the small streetwall along Hudson and took some of the plaza and garden away.

Precisely why I'm worried. If you were renovating individual buildings, the bus station could be done later. If you're tearing down a significant portion of the block, you might as well wait until you have all the properties.

Perhaps he doesn't want to drive up the price of the bus station on himself. If he announces a big initiative on the block, that alone will drive up the value of the bus station. I is just smart business strategy to have patience and to work against himself. It doesn't mean he is waiting to destroy the block.

Perhaps he doesn't want to drive up the price of the bus station on himself. If he announces a big initiative on the block, that alone will drive up the value of the bus station. I is just smart business strategy to have patience and to work against himself. It doesn't mean he is waiting to destroy the block.

Hmmmmmmm, I hadn't thought about that. Makes sense though.

Perhaps he doesn't want to drive up the price of the bus station on himself. If he announces a big initiative on the block, that alone will drive up the value of the bus station. I is just smart business strategy to have patience and to work against himself. It doesn't mean he is waiting to destroy the block.

Great point, makes perfect sense to act in this manner too. Let's say this is the case, then obviously he needs the bus station to sell. The bus station may not want to sell until they see where the new Okc transit Hub will be built.

This project could be 4-5 years away from the announcement of Preftakes plans.

I might get criticized for this, but I also think that their plaza space along Sheridan at the new headquarters is too much. Ideally, the garden wing would abut Sheridan with retail along it. There would still be adequate plaza space directly south of the rotunda and between the tower and the Colcord.

You won't get any critizism from me. It is better than what was there before so it is a step in the right direction. I just hope future projects are more urban in design.

You won't get any critizism from me. It is better than what was there before so it is a step in the right direction. I just hope future projects are more urban in design.

You are kidding, right? Is the only "urban" design something that is boxy and right up to the sidewalk? People need to get out and experience the rest of the world and its cities a little.

You are kidding, right? Is the only "urban" design something that is boxy and right up to the sidewalk? People need to get out and experience the rest of the world and its cities a little.

Rover, I have gotten out and experienced the rest of the world. Urban buildings define the space around them. It took me some self-education and I suggest you try it as well. As I have recommended to others, go pick up a copy of 101 Things I Learned in Architecture School. The author does a pretty good job of explaining urban design and suburban design and it doesn't have anything to do with what part of town buidlings are in. He also explains positive and negative space which might help you a little. Just because it is downtown doesn't make it an urban design. Let me ask you this, which is more urban - Devon Tower or Transco Tower in Houston?

Rover, I have gotten out and experienced the rest of the world. Urban buildings define the space around them. It took me some self-education and I suggest you try it as well. As I have recommended to others, go pick up a copy of 101 Things I Learned in Architecture School. The author does a pretty good job of explaining urban design and suburban design and it doesn't have anything to do with what part of town buidlings are in. Just because it is downtown doesn't make it an urban design. Let me ask you this, which is more urban - Devon Tower or Transco Tower in Houston?

I know you weren't asking me, but I would definitely say Williams Tower (the old Transco tower). It's always reminded me of a modern Empire State Building - especially that view straight up Westheimer. It's very urban - and in the burbs!

I know you weren't asking me, but I would definitely say Williams Tower (the old Transco tower). It's always reminded me of a modern Empire State Building - especially that view straight up Westheimer. It's very urban - and in the burbs!

It was trick question. Neither is urban. They are just tall. Urban/Suburban isn't about building height. It is about the ground space around the buildings.

It was trick question. Neither is urban. They are just tall.

Really? I see Williams Tower as very urban. It would not be out of place in Manhattan. Of course, truth be told I don't know a lot about this. What makes that tower not "urban?"

Really? I see Williams Tower as very urban. It would not be out of place in Manhattan. Of course, truth be told I don't know a lot about this. What makes that tower not "urban?"

Give me a minute. I'll scan a page from the book referenced above and post it. It made it pretty easy for me to understand.

Here we go. These are the pictures and will type in the text myself.

--------------

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Image1.jpg

Figure-ground theory states that the space that results from placing figures
should be considered as carefully as the figures themselves. Space is called
negative space if it is unshaped after the placement of figures. It is positive
space if it has a shape.



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Image2.jpg

We move through negative spaces and dwell in positive spaces. The shape and
qualities of architectural spaces greatly influence human experience and behavior,
for we inhabit the spaces of our built environment and the solid wall, roofs, and
columns that shape it. Positive spaces are almost always preferred by people for
lingering and social interaction. negative spaces tend to promote movement rather
than dwelling in place.



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Image3.jpg

Suburban buildings are freestanding objects in space. Urban buildings are often
shapers of space. When we create buildings today, we frequesntly focus our
efforts on their shapes, with the shapes of outdoor space a rather accidental
leftover. These outdoor spaces, such as those typically found in suburbs, are
negative spaces because the buildings around them are aren't arranged to lend
shape to the spaces in between.

Urban building, however, are often designed under the opposite assumptions:
building shapes can be secondary to the shape of the public space, to the extent
that some urban buildings are almost literally "deformed" so that plazas, courtyards,
and squares that abut them may be given positive shapes.

You are kidding, right? Is the only "urban" design something that is boxy and right up to the sidewalk? People need to get out and experience the rest of the world and its cities a little.

I am not arguing that urban buildings cannot incorporate open space and be successful from a design and activity standpoint.

In the context of Oklahoma City's small downtown however, there is ample space already. If the Myriad gardens were right in the middle of the CBD, it would be enough green space by itself (save for trees on sidewalks) until you get south of I-40.

Just my opinion...

It is also just about experiencing a different environment, there are really only two places in the entire state to experience true density. If one needs to constantly have open space, simply go outside the 1/4 mile radius of the CBD.

I hope whatever Devon has in mind it doesn't include plazas, flower beds, and/or fountains.

+1

Back in the early 80s, I think, I saw a television documentary about urban plazas. It cited Fidelity Plaza for its excellent design and its success, and the Murrah Plaza for its complete failure. The different was striking and obvious. Fidelity Plaza was crowded with people at all times during the workday, while the Murrah Plaza was virtually unused. I think small, well-designed plazas are great. They give people a place to sit and eat their lunches. They provide room for street performers, cafes, sidewalk vendors, and other activities. And, they give us a spot for civic art installations. These things give downtown its vibrancy and make it more attractive. I agree with the general consensus here, however. We don't need any more large, sweeping, suburban-style plazas in the downtown area.

This project in Tulsa seems similar, at least to how the sites looks now, to the block West of Devon. Or at least what potential there is.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20100915_11_A1_ULNSon750822&allcom=1

http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20100915_TulsaSkyline.jpg

http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20100915_OnePlace0915.jpg

!!!

That site is nothing like the Preftakes block. It's almost entirely vacant. It's only building of consequence burned down, which was very sad. The Preftakes block, as you fully know, is full of buildings of consequence that should remain. Must remain.

The buildings there now are more impressive than that proposed One Place development..

Yes, I do know. I walked and filmed the entire block. I think I've firmly placed myself in the keep-what-we-have camp of preservationists. That was the whole point of doing the video. By saying "seems similar", they're both on the edge of downtown with proposed new development planned. Keeping the buildings worth saving, what is your perfect vision of what should be done with it, as compared to the artist rendering of what they're doing do theirs in Tulsa? Both are likely to have something shiny and new there are they not?

Yeah, I know you know what is on the site, and I know how you feel about preservation, I was just hoping you'd extrapolate more on that...

So in terms of relation to downtown, I do certainly see the similarities.

In terms of something new being built there, there is not that much room compared to the block in Tulsa, if it's that empty. I don't know how you would build anything new of any impact to the skyline without having to do some surgery.
Here's that block again.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-90.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Block%20West%20of%20Devon%20Tower/BlockWestofDevonTowerMarch32011-75.jpg

What could go here that could incorporate what's already there, but fit somewhere between the buildings?