I heard a rumor it will be PRZ. They could definitely use the space.

I heard a rumor it will be PRZ. They could definitely use the space.

What is PRZ?

You don't know PRZ?

You don't know PRZ?

Guess I'm missing something here as no clue. Even google it and still no clue so enlighten me please

For those who question whether PRZ is just a front, and question PRZ's capacity for doing this development, well, you don't know PRZ.

For those who question whether PRZ is just a front, and question PRZ's capacity for doing this development, well, you don't know PRZ.

Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously just a dumb joke.

For those who question whether PRZ is just a front, and question PRZ's capacity for doing this development, well, you don't know PRZ.

'Like'

Oh, but they want to build on the site of Crystal Bridge, which I believe we should allow. The upkeep is expensive, it's featured in text books (which we just can't support), and it simply can't be considered decent urbanism because it doesn't front the street.

Good point. I can promise you the Crystal Bridge is a net loser every year. It's subsidized by taxpayers, fercryinoutloud. Isn't profitability the measure of whether a building is successful or not?

For those who question whether PRZ is just a front, and question PRZ's capacity for doing this development, well, you don't know PRZ.

+1

Good point. I can promise you the Crystal Bridge is a net loser every year. It's subsidized by taxpayers, fercryinoutloud. Isn't profitability the measure of whether a building is successful or not?

It's very annoying that you guys can get your pokes and prods in at people who don't think the stage Center was great and think it should be torn down, but when people do the exact same thing to you guys it is "contempt for anyone who thinks it is/was an interesting and worthwhile building." Seems a bit hypocritical, no?

I heard a rumor it will be PRZ. They could definitely use the space.

Spartan. Stop wasting our time. You continue to show how disconnected you are to OKC. Just stick to your Cleveland websites.

It's very annoying that you guys can get your pokes and prods in at people who don't think the stage Center was great and think it should be torn down, but when people do the exact same thing to you guys it is "contempt for anyone who thinks it is/was an interesting and worthwhile building." Seems a bit hypocritical, no?

Are you talking about when Kerry said he had concept? Who is "you guys"?

I'm very serious about PRZ. They have 12.5 employees today but they're growin fast. Their CEO Don Ward has vision.

Who is "you guys"?

The entire group who is bitter about the Stage Center getting torn down. The demolition was approved. People tried to come up with money to save it, it didn't happen. Either because people didn't want to because they have no guts as Urbanized portrays it or more than likely no bank would finance it. The building clearly has no more use to anyone. You can't just let an empty building on a prime lot sit around forever because a small handful of people like the way it looks. It would be a lot different argument if we were talking about a functional building, but we're not. Can we all just move on?

Spartan's prodding is more of a critique of proposed replacement building, not the demolition of Stage Center.

I love the building too, but like nearly all of us Stage Center fans (Spartan included), I have resigned myself to its fate.

HOWEVER, I am not impressed with what I have seen of its eventual replacement. I believe criticism is warranted in this case.

When did Chad say people have no guts?

PRZ has guts. Their skyscraper will prove it to everyone.

Spartan's prodding is more of a critique of proposed replacement building, not the demolition of Stage Center.

I love the building too, but like nearly all of us Stage Center fans (Spartan included), I have resigned myself to its fate.

HOWEVER, I am not impressed with what I have seen of its eventual replacement.

I agree. I am not that impressed either. I know his prodding is critique of the replacement, because I don't remember Spartan complaining about the Stage center being demolished until the renderings for the tower came out. IIRC, I think it was one post that he stated he was jumping on the SC preservation bandwagon because he didn't like the proposal. I could be wrong though.

Anyway, sorry for getting off topic. Back to the mystery tower on the Preftakes block.

Spartan... LOL <3

I agree. I am not that impressed either. I know his prodding is critique of the replacement, because I don't remember Spartan complaining about the Stage center being demolished until the renderings for the tower came out. IIRC, I think it was one post that he stated he was jumping on the SC preservation bandwagon because he didn't like the proposal. I could be wrong though.

Anyway, sorry for getting off topic. Back to the mystery tower on the Preftakes block.

There is no mystery now that is known that it will be built by PRZ. Unless it's built by someone else.

Spartan isn't gigging the SC demo crowd, he is poking fun at those who engage in wild a$$ speculation about unknown towers, developments, companies, etc., etc. and have no specific information. Spartan likes to deal with facts, unlike many who only want to dream and guess. And, his facts are usually correct.

Back to discussing the development possibilities of this block...

We know that Devon has almost maxed out their parking and their tower, as they have had to move all non-Devon employees out of their garage and have recently leased space in Corporate Tower.

We also know that parking in the CBD is reaching a near crisis, with all the garages showing over 100% lease rates. Office space is so tight, that for a tenant needing more than 20,000 square feet (one to two floors in most buildings) only has a precious few options. Anyone needing more than that is completely out of luck.

I would expect that Devon is actively working on plans for a new tower on the site of the old Carpenter Square building, all the way to the City building. One North Hudson and the old bus station will almost certainly be renovated to new uses. As for the Auto Hotel and everything else, it seems they may need to clear it out in order to make way for plenty of parking and more development. There is a TON of money invested in these properties, after all.

I believe this has always been the long-range plan and now things have started to heat up. Remember, it would take at least two -- and probably three -- years for new space to be open for business. And Devon and downtown need capacity now.

Spartan isn't gigging the SC demo crowd, he is poking fun at those who engage in wild a$$ speculation about unknown towers, developments, companies, etc., etc. and have no specific information. Spartan likes to deal with facts, unlike many who only want to dream and guess. And, his facts are usually correct.

My original post wasn't pointed at Spartan. He responded to it though, and I know he doesn't support the demolition of it. That's why when he asked 'Who is you guys?' I said the entire group.

I don't have contempt for anyone involved in the Stage Center debate. However, PRZ does have contempt for "small towers" for whatever it is worth. They would never propose a small tower because they have lots of guts.

Spartan, enough with the trolling please.

So how many towers do you think we could fit on this block? Two or three? Hopefully we get a dense development seeing as how we had the Devon Tower which was not exactly the most urban building out there, but I still really love it, hopefully we get a really dense project directly west of it.

So how many towers do you think we could fit on this block? Two or three? Hopefully we get a dense development seeing as how we had Devon Tower.

I would say 15 towers, but if they're as girthy as Devon, maybe 5.

I'd really like them to save the Auto Hotel. It's a great old building and is still in use. It's something you can design around and still get your big tower and a big parking garage.

Well, since the comment was obviously directed at me I will say that I have ZERO contempt for anyone pro-demo. I just sometimes disagree with them (and sometimes, believe it or not, AGREE with them). I only like to point out when there are clear examples that fly directly in the face of the "logic" people attempt to use when saying the building du jour absolutely MUST come down immediately or the world will come to an end or something. It simply isn't true, but it is often (usually?) accepted at face-value by many (most?).

I always find it puzzling and a troubling, yet actually humorous at the same time in a black comedy sort of way, how a building can sit unnoticed and unobtrusive for years - decades even - but when a demolition debate arises certain people rush to the position that every moment the building stands from now on is an assault on All That Is Good. It's as if an attempt to have an honest discussion regarding the building's merits is some sort of Commie plot. The reality is in many cases the only difference between a building being a heap of bricks and being a showpiece is whether or not it survived long enough for a champion with vision to find it and see it as a jewel in the rough. We are seeing remarkable examples of this right now with buildings like Pizzeria Gusto and Blair Upholstery, among others.

But just because someone is wrong (or simply has an opinion different from mine) doesn't qualify them for my contempt. I'm an extremely tolerant person. But I do think there have been innumerable examples of intolerance, anger and yes, contempt from the pro-demo crowd during the discussion. Not so much from the pro-demo crowd. Mostly just a quiet desperation from them. And that is pretty consistent with any preservation debate I have ever been witness to. It's an odd thing.

So how many towers do you think we could fit on this block? Two or three? Hopefully we get a dense development seeing as how we had the Devon Tower which was not exactly the most urban building out there, but I still really love it, hopefully we get a really dense project directly west of it.

I would say one of the Carpenter square site, demolish the lunch box and put one there and then a parking garage in the area between the city offices and the new south tower. I could also see him tearing down everything on the southern half besides the old hotel and the bus station for redevelopment.

I would really like the facades of the Carpenter Square building and the adjacent buildings to the east be retained and restored with a tower above and behind them.

2-15-14

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7326/12645821633_73b8109b43_c.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2881/12646174614_22d1ecc41b_c.jpg

Spartan. Stop wasting our time. You continue to show how disconnected you are to OKC. Just stick to your Cleveland websites.

Amen.

Spartan isn't gigging the SC demo crowd, he is poking fun at those who engage in wild a$$ speculation about unknown towers, developments, companies, etc., etc. and have no specific information. Spartan likes to deal with facts, unlike many who only want to dream and guess. And, his facts are usually correct.

You and Spartan should get a room!

:p

I would say 15 towers, but if they're as girthy as Devon, maybe 5.

So you're saying Devon delivered on length and girth?

I would say 15 towers, but if they're as girthy as Devon, maybe 5.Wow, 15!?!? That would be pretty rad. I agree with the people who want the Lunch Box and other buildings saved with a tower being built on or around them.

So you're saying Devon delivered on length and girth?Delivered?

Delivered?

In every way.

In every way.I agree.

2-15-14

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2881/12646174614_22d1ecc41b_c.jpg

Yea...like that!

In every way.

Take it from Bob, Devon is swelling in pride over their new building.

http://www.grayflannelsuit.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/smiling-bob.png

dayum catch, just dayum.

I would really like the facades of the Carpenter Square building and the adjacent buildings to the east be retained and restored with a tower above and behind them.

west, Devon is East of Carpenter Square.

Yes, west.

The roof of the old Carpenter Square building is clearly not draining properly.

The whole thing is going to cave in at some point:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/preftakes031714a.jpg

But Preftakes is taking stellar care of the property, so no need to worry.

Yes! He just put up some fresh plywood.

Like

He's just practicing green demolition. Leave it be and in time mother nature might knock it down for you.

I created a new graphic (updated the article atop this thread as well) since it's looking more and more likely there will be a tower and other development on this block in the near future.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/preftakes2014.jpg

Nick Preftakes owns everything on this block but #'s 2,3,4 and 16. I believe that the buildings shaded green will not be demolished.

The likely scenario is that buildings 5 through 8 will make way for a new, approximately 800,000 sqaure foot tower that would likely stand 30 to 45 stories.

Lots 9 & 16 are prime candidates for structured parking (in partnership with the City); the old Motor Hotel is parking now and could continue in that use or be re-purposed.

The Bus Station will likely be renovated into some sort of diner / restaurant and the One North Hudson will either be residential or a hotel.

Lots 12, 13, and 14 may be part of the parking structure with retail at the ground level and office/residential/hotel above.


The only semi-firm information is that a large tower will go on parcels 5-8.

He's just practicing green demolition. Leave it be and in time mother nature might knock it down for you.

It's called demolition by neglect and that's totally what they are trying to do and why they are content to take their time. The city is totally complicit with this as seen in the lack of response to our calls for code enforcement.

I created a new graphic (updated the article atop this thread as well) since it's looking more and more likely there will be a tower and other development on this block in the near future.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/preftakes2014.jpg

Nick Preftakes owns everything on this block but #'s 2,3,4 and 16. I believe that the buildings shaded green will not be demolished.

The likely scenario is that buildings 5 through 8 will make way for a new, approximately 800,000 sqaure foot tower that would likely stand 30 to 45 stories.

Lots 9 & 16 are prime candidates for structured parking (in partnership with the City); the old Motor Hotel is parking now and could continue in that use or be re-purposed.

The Bus Station will likely be renovated into some sort of diner / restaurant and the One North Hudson will either be residential or a hotel.

Lots 12, 13, and 14 may be part of the parking structure with retail at the ground level and office/residential/hotel above.


The only semi-firm information is that a large tower will go on parcels 5-8.

I'll be quite sad to see lot #8 go. That is a beautiful exterior that I wish could be held on to.

The facades aren't in the way of anything, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Very interesting find... This was done by Bockus Payne in 2010.

Looks like Preftakes at one time considered housing for Main & Hudson while wanting to maintain the storefronts:


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8328d1403632020-preftakes-block-preftakeshousing.jpg

Nm, didn't read all of Pete's post.

Even showing that picture is enough to give PluPan an aneurism...

That rendering at least demonstrates the desire to retain the storefronts.

Maybe they are considering the same for the new tower.

I would prefer the residential units above to a tower.

I'd prefer the tower. Take towers while you can get 'em. Housing units like those above can be built by anybody.

I would prefer the residential units above to a tower.

Why?