Yes, there is empty space but very little completely empty space.

More often than not, there is some lone, stray, neglected building in the middle of a large area that is to be redeveloped. And that's when a building tends to come down.


SandRidge was an exception and I think those demolitions should never have been approved.

The Preftakes block isn't a lone, stray, neglected building. It is our last best remnants of historic Main Street though the neglected part I agree with.

The Film Exchange is more locally significant than anything in the new park except for Union Station.

Yes, but nothing has been demolished on the Preftakes block, apart from a non-historic structure next to the bus station.

We are all assuming demolitions here but there has not been any official plan revealed.

If the long-rumored tower ever comes to frution, then I wouldn't see any problems with demolitions. If its just to add surface parking, then absolutely not.

I think there is no definitive answer for when demolition is appropriate. You have to ask WHAT is being demolished. Just because something is old doesn't necessarily mean its worth preserving. Next, you have to ask what is it being replaced with. The Sandridge thing was a travesty, but they basically held the city hostage saying they would move their HQ if they didn't allow it.

Freudian slip or not, I got quite a chuckle several pages back when he was called Preflakes lol

What is a few vs several? This is splitting hairs.


Spartan, you know I was referring to your "astonshing rate" statement. You make good many good points but go overboard with your descriptive language which doesn't apply to what is happening.

It's astonishing to me that we keep tearing down buildings. For corporate towers, parking garages, parking lots, it all makes no difference.

It's astonishing to me that we keep tearing down buildings. For corporate towers, parking garages, parking lots, it all makes no difference.

and sidewalks....

It's astonishing to me that we keep tearing down buildings. For corporate towers, parking garages, parking lots, it all makes no difference.

Being astonished and saying an astonishing rate are totally different. Cities all over the country tear down building for the same things, for better or worse.

I wish that OKC would have retained at least one of the older theaters downtown... in my day there, there were several. Of all, I liked the State and Harbor (across the street from each other). :cool:

Nothing new


10:49
Comment From Guest
Steve, what do you think Preftakes is up to?

10:51
Steve Lackmeyer: Conversion of One North Hudson (formerly the Hotel Black) into housing or a hotel, conversion of the bus station into a restaurant and/or music venue, and likely demolition of other structures to make way for a new office tower.

I just can't believe that this is the block he's going to clear for a big development. Why oh why. Any development here is literally just 2 steps forward, 2 steps backward.

We are just dancing around progress, and we wonder why our downtown lacks the vitality of other cities despite the big investments. Besides, if it turns out that the public sector has no teeth in guiding downtown redevelopment then we should stop spending a single public dime anywhere downtown. Public spending isn't a one-way road, it's a relationship to leverage investment if it's going to be successful.

This is bad.

I just can't believe that this is the block he's going to clear for a big development. Why oh why. Any development here is literally just 2 steps forward, 2 steps backward.

We are just dancing around progress, and we wonder why our downtown lacks the vitality of other cities despite the big investments. Besides, if it turns out that the public sector has no teeth in guiding downtown redevelopment then we should stop spending a single public dime anywhere downtown. Public spending isn't a one-way road, it's a relationship to leverage investment if it's going to be successful.

This is bad.

Well, to be fair, this is the exact same thing he has talked about for six years and has done nothing. I'll be surprised if he has any real plans at this point. It's obvious he is just sitting on the property much like the situation with the Tower Theater. Hopefully somebody will eventually purchase it and do something great with it.

...what is the rumor of a Major Retail coming Downtown? who & when?

...what is the rumor of a Major Retail coming Downtown? who & when?

My guess is CVS to Century Center.

My guess is CVS to Century Center.

Pete, what are some of the rumors floating around out there regarding Major Retail in Downtown...? thnx

...what is the rumor of a Major Retail coming Downtown? who & when?

We're going for the Guinness world record of most headlines ever over a single CVS...

We're going for the Guinness world record of most headlines ever over a single CVS...

I agree. Surely this is NOT the big news. One CVS is not even news. Now, if it was part of a Major Retail Development....then maybe.

I agree. Surely this is NOT the big news. One CVS is not even news. Now, if it was part of a Major Retail Development....then maybe.

I agree. I think the CVS is likely it though. At least it gets downtown past another benchmark so corner retail will no longer be earth shattering news. The next step is destination retail.

I agree. I think the CVS is likely it though. At least it gets downtown past another benchmark so corner retail will no longer be earth shattering news. The next step is destination retail.

Yeah, Destination Retail is major, but not another store...

I agree. Surely this is NOT the big news. One CVS is not even news. Now, if it was part of a Major Retail Development....then maybe.

Well another CVS might be news, so hold on there. It maybe a Walgreens. But I don't know if we have enough headlines over the one CVS first., ie., official announcement, official write-up, etc..

There's gotta be a press release coming soon that can be re-written into a story.

a Major Retailer is NOT a major retail development. ...ie world class in scale & design.

a Major Retailer is NOT a major retail development. ...ie world class in scale & design.

Steve Lackmeyer: Major new retail is coming to downtown Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/steve-lackmeyer-major-new-retail-is-coming-to-downtown-oklahoma-city/article/3926910)

He says "major new retail" not a major retail development. I too hope its something much bigger than what we already know, but I believe he is referring to CVS and wouldn't get my hopes up that its anything more.

CVS is NOT major retail. Urban Outfitters, Crate and Barrel, Target - those I would designate as major for downtown. A drugstore, not so much.

I just can't believe that this is the block he's going to clear for a big development. Why oh why. Any development here is literally just 2 steps forward, 2 steps backward.

We are just dancing around progress, and we wonder why our downtown lacks the vitality of other cities despite the big investments. Besides, if it turns out that the public sector has no teeth in guiding downtown redevelopment then we should stop spending a single public dime anywhere downtown. Public spending isn't a one-way road, it's a relationship to leverage investment if it's going to be successful.

This is bad.

I think that lends more credibility to Pete's theory that Devon is involved because you are right...why choose this block for a new tower when there are other empty lots in the area. The answer might be because those other lots aren't located right across from the Devon tower. Though to be fair most of the block will not likely be cleared.

If I were to engage the possibilities, here's what will probably happen:

Preftakes will serve as a straw buyer a la Rainey Williams (they probably go to the same straw development conventions) and will raze the site. He'll tear down the auto hotel bc it's not already bright and shiny. Then he'll sell the development clearing Devon of demolition controversy so that it's not a direct conflict of interest if they defund Preservation Oklahoma for speaking up. A company restaurant will go in the old Union Bus Station and Devon will consult Aubrey on minutia for that. Then for actual development we'll be at the mercy of the economic tide.

And then we change OKC to Devonville and the devious Nichols sleeps soundly once more while the evil godmother disappears into the night. The end.

I think that lends more credibility to Pete's theory that Devon is involved because you are right...why choose this block for a new tower when there are other empty lots in the area. The answer might be because those other lots aren't located right across from the Devon tower. Though to be fair most of the block will not likely be cleared.

I said this about a year ago. - I have a co-worker whose nephew is in management at Devon. The nephew told my co-worker that whenever they did expand, that it would be to the block just West of their new building.

I said this about a year ago. - I have a co-worker whose nephew is in management at Devon. The nephew told my co-worker that whenever they did expand, that it would be to the block just West of their new building.

It definitely makes sense.

If I were to engage the possibilities, here's what will probably happen:

Preftakes will serve as a straw buyer a la Rainey Williams (they probably go to the same straw development conventions) and will raze the site. He'll tear down the auto hotel bc it's not already bright and shiny. Then he'll sell the development clearing Devon of demolition controversy so that it's not a direct conflict of interest if they defund Preservation Oklahoma for speaking up. A company restaurant will go in the old Union Bus Station and Devon will consult Aubrey on minutia for that. Then for actual development we'll be at the mercy of the economic tide.

I think that's a little unnecessarily negative. Preftakes has owned those buildings for years. If he wanted to knock them all down without any financed plan in place to develop the property, he could've already done it by now. Besides if it is Devon involved, they have a pretty solid track record of paying for their projects upfront and following through on them in a big way despite the current economic conditions. They broke ground on the Devon tower at near the lowest point of the worst recession in recent history and the worst downturn for the energy industry since the 80s. I'm not crazy about clearing the historic buildings either and hope especially that the Auto Hotel isn't included, but if it is going to happen anyway, I would be much more comfortable with a company as stable as Devon backing it.

And then we change OKC to Devonville and the devious Nichols sleeps soundly once more while the evil godmother disappears into the night. The end.

LN is no longer at Devon...

LN is no longer at Devon...

Yes, but he is still a puppet master that put the whole devious scheme together. He put the evil empire together.

Yes, but he is still a puppet master that put the whole devious scheme together. He put the evil empire together.

It sounds as if you feel Downtown would have been better off without his development, is that a fair assessment?

Rover is being sarcastic.

Yes, but he is still a puppet master that put the whole devious scheme together. He put the evil empire together.

This is another one of your tactics that get old. I've never criticized LN even when I refer to the chamber junta over the years. They're all good guys individually, but when they group think and override common urban planning tenets, I'm not supportive of that.

Never mind Rover, he is sometimes difficult to engage in thoughtful dialog bc he employs logical fallacies to discredit or disarm posters he disagrees with.

I do get sarcastic when rhetoric gets particularly caustic and over the top. That too is a predictable tactic.

LN is no longer at Devon...

Fail.

LN is no longer at Devon...

As of today, J. Larry Nichols is the Executive Chairman of Devon Energy.

And John Richels is the CEO overseeing corporate relations and day to day operations, but the correction is withstanding. Thanks, and for those of you that private messaged me that too, thanks.

The point I'm making is LN is not a bad guy and there's no reason for any planner or urbanist to feel threatened, and accusing us of that is equally absurd. There's a name for that fallacy.. And it's particularly unfair because of the celebrated nature of LN's accomplishments. That's like accusing democrats of hating Jesus. Got a little bit of red herring mixed with masked man fallacies going on there..

How do you feel about the Preftakes block being cleared? Those are useable, functional buildings so that site should be the benchmark for support of preservation.

As long as buildings 4, 10, 11 & 15 stay put, I'm fine with the whole block being cleared!

As long as buildings 4, 10, 11 & 15 stay put, I'm fine with the whole block being cleared!

14 is attached and part of 15. May be separate building technically but is now merged into the hotel black. For example, the bathrooms on the ground floor are actually in 14. Where Scott's printing used to be in 15 wraps all the way around into the back side of 14. The second floor of 14 is accessed through the lobby of 15.

No love for 8?

14 is attached and part of 15. May be separate building technically but is now merged into the hotel black. For example, the bathrooms on the ground floor are actually in 14. Where Scott's printing used to be in 15 wraps all the way around into the back side of 14. The second floor of 14 is accessed through the lobby of 15.

Okay 14 can stay, since the bathrooms are there.


No love for 8?

I'd love 8 if it was incorporated into a new tower by being a fully functional restored first floor of retail and restaurant space. I don't know where but I saw somewhere how a very tall newer structure was built on an existing one level structure.

It's done all over. Chicago. New York. Toronto. Boise...

1-8 are the last remnants of our Main Street. Why not embrace that and build cool new stuff around it? Above it? Behind it?

Believe it or not OKC still has a historic Main Street..for now.

Was some chatter about Devon and Preftakes block rumors today on Steve's chat....anyone hear any of this ?

Steve's response was 'Yep'.

Bump to get an answer....

Was some chatter about Devon and Preftakes block rumors today on Steve's chat....anyone hear any of this ?

Steve's response was 'Yep'.I thought he said no? Maybe I misread or am confusing it with something else.

I thought he said no? Maybe I misread or am confusing it with something else.

The question was if he'd heard the smoke about a tower being announced very soon on Preftakes Block. He answered "yep".

The question was if he'd heard the smoke about a tower being announced very soon on Preftakes Block. He answered "yep".Oh, I must of missed it then. Glad to hear it though!

Ensue mystery tower machination now...

I'd put money on Gulfport Energy building a tower.

Why Gulfport?

I think he was being sarcastic, read my post before...

Gulfport wouldn't be totally out of the question. They are growing pretty quickly. They seem to like their space off memorial though.


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Gulfport wouldn't be totally out of the question. They are growing pretty quickly. They seem to like their space off memorial though.


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Trust me, it would not be Gulfport...sarcasm or not.

:) I know.

Gulfport was obviously a joke about the mystery tower phenomenon and how to cyclically drive internet madness.

^^^yes. I just thought I'd re-emphasize how bad of a joke it was. ;-)

^^^yes. I just thought I'd re-emphasize how bad of a joke it was. ;-)

Darn...took the bait haha


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My money is on it being a pure spec tower with a two or three committed tenants. A bank and and oil company..... I could see WellsFargo, RKI, and some overflow offices for Devon/Enlink in there.

A spec tower is what downtown needs right now and a huge parking garage with it with extra space (more than the building would need).