View Full Version : Preftakes Block



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Pete
07-17-2013, 08:02 AM
Another interesting element about the historical buildings on this block...

Remember that Devon bought the Colcord, initially to be caretakers while they were building their tower and greatly impacting their business. But while the original plan was to sell back to the Coury group, they decided to keep it and I've heard from several people that Larry Nichols absolutely loves that building and even wants to find someone to write a book about it. Devon also continues to invest in the Colcord.

So, it will be very interesting to see the trade-offs that will take place with all these properties. I imagine there will be a new tower or two with some (not all) of the historic structures integrated in a Colcord-esque way.

I've been very, very impressed with the way Devon has handled their real estate dealings and I trust that they will strike a good balance here.

Pete
07-17-2013, 08:51 AM
We all know that slowly but surely, Preftakes & Co. have been moving out all the existing business in the properties they own on this block. At the same time, absolutely no new leases have been signed and they haven't spent a dime to renovate anything.

This has been going on for years and we've all been wondering where it is headed and what they are waiting for.

Well, it seems they've been waiting until they can get everybody out; and we now know that will happen sometime early next year when the last of the One N Hudson leases expire in April and the bus station moves it's operations east, sometime after the first of the year.

Also, remember that Larry Nichols and Mark Beffort are very tight -- Mark has handled most of Devon's needs, including leasing them space in Corporate Tower for their health clinic and overflow. Beffort has also been handling the sale of Stage Center.

So, there are lots of possible common ties between what is getting ready to happen at Stage Center and the Preftakes block. I suspect the new SC tower will be announced and at the same time Devon will be working on it's plans for the Preftakes block, possibly to start after the tower is complete. This would fit will Devon's timing for new space... Don't need anything now but certainly will within the next five years.


I really think this is all part of the grand Nichols plan. He wanted to completely remake downtown through a world-class HQ for Devon, a completely remodeled Myriad Gardens and all the streets through Project 180. Also interesting to note he personally contributed to completing Bicentennial Park, which is a big part of an emerging west downtown.

And his beloved convention center is another big piece of this plan, effectively filling in the entire are around the Myriad Gardens (assuming all the suspected development along the western border).

It seems this all may be part of a somewhat coordinated development effort, including the one City parking garage under construction and a couple more proposed just west of the Stage Center site.

PhiAlpha
07-17-2013, 09:24 AM
Is the general consensus that most of the buildings on the preftakes block (or at least the old black hotel and autohotel) are safe from demolition for this project? Obviously something will have to be knocked down but hopefully nothing too prominent, preferably most of the old main st will remain as well.

Pete
07-17-2013, 09:30 AM
I think all those buildings along Main (except the one city-owned building and Coney Island) will be demolished and that One N Hudson and the auto garage will stay.

In the end, I think the bus station may have to go as well.

I just don't see any other way to justify the massive expense already incurred; they have to make room for new construction somehow.

PhiAlpha
07-17-2013, 09:34 AM
I think all those buildings along Main (except the one city-owned building and Coney Island) will be demolished and that One N Hudson and the auto garage will stay.

In the end, I think the bus station may have to go as well.

I just don't see any other way to justify the massive expense already incurred; they have to make room for new construction somehow.

Do you have an updated map of that block within reach? I looked back a few pages and couldn't find it.

UnFrSaKn
07-17-2013, 10:07 AM
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2819/9272686764_cd7558203e_b.jpg

City building, Coney Island, Pizza Town, empty building

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/9287562583_f80b524235_b.jpg

http://www.retrometrookc.org/wp-content/gallery/chs-collections-views/View%20E%20from%20Tower%20of%20Oklahoma%20County%2 0Courthouse,%2020%20N%20Dewey,%20c.%201920s%20.jpg
Very early photo of Coney Island building

hoya
07-17-2013, 10:31 AM
I don't know about those last two buildings next to Coney Island. I just can't visualize anything you could put there except maybe the entrance to a parking garage. Maybe they'll just be renovated and leased out.

Pete
07-17-2013, 10:42 AM
I don't know about those last two buildings next to Coney Island. I just can't visualize anything you could put there except maybe the entrance to a parking garage. Maybe they'll just be renovated and leased out.

True, and I honestly have no idea what they plan to do.

However, those two buildings could be tied into a development on the bus station property to the south.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Coney Island and Pizza place were acquired eventually.

Jeepnokc
07-17-2013, 10:44 AM
We all know that slowly but surely, Preftakes & Co. have been moving out all the existing business in the properties they own on this block. At the same time, absolutely no new leases have been signed and they haven't spent a dime to renovate anything.

This has been going on for years and we've all been wondering where it is headed and what they are waiting for.

After Mr. Preftakes bought 1 N. Hudson, They did some renovations and installed a new fire suppression system among other things. He has been a good landlord and property manager taking care of any maintenance issues that have arisen over the last several years he has owned the property. They did close the parking garage for a while but reopened it after spending money on a system to use parking cards for entry and exit.

I think Mr. Preftakes has a plan in place but I don't think it has been a long term plan as they were actively seeking new leases earlier this year.

Pete
07-17-2013, 10:52 AM
I think Mr. Preftakes has a plan in place but I don't think it has been a long term plan as they were actively seeking new leases earlier this year.

Thanks for the information about improvements.

However, I've long thought the attempts at leasing additional space were a ruse.

They published some information but have not signed one new lease (that I'm aware of). And of course, they've been turning people out of their buildings for a while.

I suspect they never had a specific timeline but that seems to have changed now.

UnFrSaKn
07-17-2013, 10:56 AM
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3701/9290423410_511d02bbcd_b.jpg

hoya
07-17-2013, 11:05 AM
My guess is that he's been treading water for a while, keeping enough leases going to pay the bills, keep up maintenance, etc, but doing nothing to delay the sale to Devon once he got word things were going to happen. If he's ending leases, to me that says he's got his timeline.

UnFrSaKn
07-17-2013, 11:16 AM
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5451/9013901604_ff7f0674cc_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7459/9013855800_f1c85d33a6_b.jpg

Pete
07-17-2013, 06:56 PM
Just looked at the Precor website and they have removed all these properties from their "for lease" list except the old Lunch Box space and the retail building on the corner of Main & Walker.

Previously, they had the old Carpenter Square building and the others along Main listed as well as One North Hudson.

One N Hudson now says "under redevelopment" if you click on Info:


Precor Ruffin - One North Hudson Available (http://www.precorruffin.com/detail.php?id=28)

Pete
07-17-2013, 07:24 PM
As a reminder:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/precor5.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/precorstats.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/precor6.jpg

Nick
07-17-2013, 07:38 PM
How interesting...

Pete
07-17-2013, 08:08 PM
BTW, if they were merely planning to renovate One North Hudson, why would they need to throw all the tenants out?

Buildings can undergo major surgery while working around tenants. Happens all the time.

So, what could be happening here that would require them to vacate the building completely?

Perhaps conversion to residential??

Praedura
07-17-2013, 09:11 PM
How certain are we that One North Hudson won't be demolished?

I know that I would hate to see it go, as would probably everyone on this board. But are there tangible reasons that have been backed up by public statements, private reassurances, etc. that indicate that it will stay -- i.e. that go beyond just our own wishes?

Patrick
07-17-2013, 09:20 PM
How certain are we that One North Hudson won't be demolished?

I know that I would hate to see it go, as would probably everyone on this board. But are there tangible reasons that have been backed up by public statements, private reassurances, etc. that indicate that it will stay -- i.e. that go beyond just our own wishes?

Urban Design Committee would never approve it. Plan on it being adapted for reuse as possible residential or boutique hotel use (umm, yes, it's original use...think Colcord, which is doing quite well). And what a better place for either hotel or residential than fronting Devon and Myriad Gardens (and a new tower!!!)

Patrick
07-17-2013, 09:24 PM
BTW, if they were merely planning to renovate One North Hudson, why would they need to throw all the tenants out?

Buildings can undergo major surgery while working around tenants. Happens all the time.

So, what could be happening here that would require them to vacate the building completely?

Perhaps conversion to residential??

Yup, last I heard they were exploring possible redevelopment as residential (think The Montgomery) or a boutique hotel (wow, it's original use...think Colcord).

Patrick
07-17-2013, 09:27 PM
Don't bet on Devon getting involved in this block. Preftakes has his own plans and is looking to reap financial rewards from having Devon and a newly redeveloped Myriad Gardens nearby. He's not going to just turn it for profit. He's going to develop it himself and keep it as a cash cow! He's just waited until now to act due to timing and increased opportunity with Devon being completed. And with a new tower planned to the south, I'd plan on him waiting it out a little longer to drive up value. As for the rest of his properties, depends on what opportunities come up between now and the time this new tower is built. Preftakes has plenty of patience and won't be acting quickly.

Praedura
07-17-2013, 09:29 PM
Urban Design Committee would never approve it. Plan on it being adapted for reuse as possible residential or boutique hotel use (umm, yes, it's original use...think Colcord, which is doing quite well). And what a better place for either hotel or residential than fronting Devon and Myriad Gardens (and a new tower!!!)

Excellent! I guess the simplest answers are the best.

Would that building be cool for residential or a hotel? Absolutely! It would be outstanding. One of the greatest locations in downtown OKC right now.

By the way, how does the Urban Design Committee feel about Union Bus Station? Is this another no-go, or could it be demolished?

Patrick
07-17-2013, 09:35 PM
Excellent! I guess the simplest answers are the best.

Would that building be cool for residential or a hotel? Absolutely! It would be outstanding. One of the greatest locations in downtown OKC right now.

By the way, how does the Urban Design Committe feel about Union Bus Station? Is this another no-go, or could it be demolished?

I'm not 100% for sure, but from talking to a few of the members, they have opposing views on the bus station. From the ones I've talked to, it just depends on what plan is presented to them. Surface parking is a no go obviously. From what I've heard, Preftakes was in talks with a restaurant operator to locate a diner there. But I'm not sure if that ever progressed.

Patrick
07-17-2013, 09:40 PM
Just remember that in the real estate business things change everyday. If the right deal was made tomorrow for a single office tenant to take Hotel Black, I could see Preftakes going for it, or maybe even demolition (if someone really offered the right dollar - although I think he prefers to preserve most of the block and redevelop it for other use), but currently I think he's leaning towards either of those 2 uses.

Praedura
07-17-2013, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the insight Patrick. Your posts are very exciting, and provocative. You've corroborated a number of things, but challenged other conceptions. For example, most here have assumed for awhile that Preftakes was acting as a proxy for Devon. And that MidFirst was out of the running for a downtown tower.

My head is spinning a little bit. But this is good stuff.

Thundercitizen
07-17-2013, 09:46 PM
Thanks for the insight Patrick. Your posts are very exciting, and provocative. You've corroborated a number of things, but challenged other conceptions. For example, most here have assumed for awhile that Preftakes was acting as a proxy for Devon. And that MidFirst was out of the running for a downtown tower.

My head is spinning a little bit. But this is good stuff.I'll second that.

Patrick
07-17-2013, 09:58 PM
I'm not saying MF is for sure in the running, but don't count them out yet. Like I said OGE is a better probability for the SC site. I know OGE was one of the 3 interested parties. Not sure who the other 2 were. Keep in mind though that MF will eventually move somewhere. I mean, we know they considered the OPUBCO site. So they're still putting feelers out there.

Of course Devon has influence on what Preftakes does but at the end of the day, Preftakes purchased that property to benefit from Devon's investment next door, not the other way around. That doesn't mean that Devon couldn't make an offer for parts of Preftake's property but I think Devon has made it pretty clear that they have plenty of space for a long while. I think Preftakes is doing his own thing and being patient about it.

bluedogok
07-17-2013, 09:59 PM
Another interesting element about the historical buildings on this block...

Remember that Devon bought the Colcord, initially to be caretakers while they were building their tower and greatly impacting their business. But while the original plan was to sell back to the Coury group, they decided to keep it and I've heard from several people that Larry Nichols absolutely loves that building and even wants to find someone to write a book about it. Devon also continues to invest in the Colcord.

So, it will be very interesting to see the trade-offs that will take place with all these properties. I imagine there will be a new tower or two with some (not all) of the historic structures integrated in a Colcord-esque way.

I've been very, very impressed with the way Devon has handled their real estate dealings and I trust that they will strike a good balance here.
I know at one time there were quite a few of the old drawings from The Colcord Building in the plan vault at Benham. At one time when the original lease signed after the sale of One Benham Place was coming due (before the Atkins acquisition) they were considering many different scenarios in a possible relocation and The Colcord was one of the many looked into. One of the buildings on Grand Blvd. on the now Chesapeake campus, a renovated Belle Isle Power Plant and building a Two Benham Place on already owned adjacent property was considered, those are the ones that I knew of.

Praedura
07-18-2013, 02:41 AM
Just looked at the Precor website and they have removed all these properties from their "for lease" list except the old Lunch Box space and the retail building on the corner of Main & Walker.

Previously, they had the old Carpenter Square building and the others along Main listed as well as One North Hudson.

One N Hudson now says "under redevelopment" if you click on Info:


Precor Ruffin - One North Hudson Available (http://www.precorruffin.com/detail.php?id=28)

Nice lobby (or foyer... whatever you call it)

http://www.precorruffin.com/uploads/1nhudson-e.jpg

Hmm... now imagine this spruced up and redecorated for a residential or hotel entrance.

Praedura
07-18-2013, 02:47 AM
If it's renovated as a hotel... they could put a bar/restaurant on the top floor to take advantage of stunning views through the curved glass windows...

http://www.precorruffin.com/uploads/1nhudson-a.jpg

And even if it was repurposed as residential, they could still use that top floor as an event space.

Spartan
07-18-2013, 09:30 AM
Don't bet on Devon getting involved in this block. Preftakes has his own plans and is looking to reap financial rewards from having Devon and a newly redeveloped Myriad Gardens nearby. He's not going to just turn it for profit. He's going to develop it himself and keep it as a cash cow! He's just waited until now to act due to timing and increased opportunity with Devon being completed. And with a new tower planned to the south, I'd plan on him waiting it out a little longer to drive up value. As for the rest of his properties, depends on what opportunities come up between now and the time this new tower is built. Preftakes has plenty of patience and won't be acting quickly.

I disagree, this block will be redeveloped in phases and not all at once. The thing with Devon is that while a new tower makes a lot of sense in their 5-year planning, they want to emphasize that now they don't need one to assert the length of time between building a new tower. It looks bad, because even while they built the new tower very efficiently, it's often seen as a harbinger of corporate excess. They want to avoid that rap no matter what.

I've also suspected that the American Motor Hotel across from the Garden Wing would make great residential too. While that would require a complete build-out since it was still used for parked cars recently, the floor plates are large enough to accommodate something like that. I don't have a VP-level source, but I've been watching this situation unfold every day for the last five years. I agree that in real estate you can have dramatic changes depending if someone wants to make a deal, and that's where Devon is. Right now they don't, but it makes too much sense for them not to.

BoulderSooner
07-18-2013, 09:40 AM
Urban Design Committee would never approve it. Plan on it being adapted for reuse as possible residential or boutique hotel use (umm, yes, it's original use...think Colcord, which is doing quite well). And what a better place for either hotel or residential than fronting Devon and Myriad Gardens (and a new tower!!!)

don't be so sure that they wouldn't allow it ... it would depend on what was replacing it ..

Pete
07-18-2013, 09:46 AM
No matter what happens on this block, they will need parking. And downtown parking in general is completely maxed out and is only going to get tighter with everything that is going on.

I also don't think the old auto hotel will be demolished. So, I would expect it to continue on as parking.

One North Hudson could easily be converted to residential, and it would be an awesome spot for it. Devon immediately east, new tower(s) directly south, Myriad Gardens at your doorstep, great views, etc. A hotel conversion would make equal sense.

I do not believe 420 W. Main (owned by the City) will come into play here because there has been a series of recent building permits for various interior improvements. Just in the last few months, they've spent $.5 million on this building. Not the actions of someone planning to sell/move.

That really only leaves two areas large enough for any type of new development: The Carpenter Square building and those west of it and the area immediately west of One N Hudson. Considering there is already $16 million sunk into this block with almost zero revenue at this point, I believe something big and new will have to happen on one or both those sites.

I suspect one of them will be used for a new Devon building. We all know they are involved in this site and that they have talked openly about building a new tower. Although they just issued a public denial of anything being imminent, I know people at Devon who have told me that a new tower has been openly discussed. It's just a matter of timing and continued growth.

The corner of Main & Hudson (Carp. Sq.) would make the most sense for Devon, as it's closest to it's existing complex.

warreng88
07-18-2013, 10:01 AM
What is the parking situation for Devon at their garage? Is it full? Could they build something else to house 500 employees and not build more parking?

Pete
07-18-2013, 10:04 AM
I've been told they still have a decent amount of capacity at their existing garage.

But I seriously doubt it could handle the employees from a new tower.


Also keep in mind that One North Hudson will need parking no matter the use and that downtown parking in general is extremely tight.

Bellaboo
07-18-2013, 10:16 AM
I've been told they still have a decent amount of capacity at their existing garage.

But I seriously doubt it could handle the employees from a new tower.


Also keep in mind that One North Hudson will need parking no matter the use and that downtown parking in general is extremely tight.

Didn't Devon buy another garage just a couple of blocks north of here just a few months back ?

Patrick
07-18-2013, 10:25 AM
Yeah, the Devon garage is probably at around 65% capacity. Keep in mind that the new tower built on the SC site may possibly also include a parking garage built towards the south.

kevinpate
07-18-2013, 10:29 AM
Just wondering. Has the work referenced re permits at the city bldg. actually begun, or is it in planning phase. Would seem something of an elaborate ruse if it were a ruse, but hey, most illusions do require a fair bit of diversion.

and by the by, isn't my new foil hat just all that and more?

Pete
07-18-2013, 10:30 AM
Didn't Devon buy another garage just a couple of blocks north of here just a few months back ?

No.

That was a rumor. That garage has not sold.

lasomeday
07-18-2013, 02:07 PM
Yeah, the Devon garage is probably at around 65% capacity. Keep in mind that the new tower built on the SC site may possibly also include a parking garage built towards the south.

More like 90% full during the work week.

Pete
07-18-2013, 02:10 PM
More like 90% full during the work week.

And, the tower isn't completely maxed out with employees yet so that means without expanding at all, the garage will be very near capacity.

Patrick
07-18-2013, 02:28 PM
You know, Preftakes isn 't in the parking business, i.e., paying to park, but the Autohotel is still needed to house the tenants of the redevelopment of Hotel Black into either a hotel or residences, the latter more likely.

ChaseDweller
07-18-2013, 03:10 PM
So, just speculation here, but a large downtown law firm has been told it needs to move. Preftakes needs an "anchor tenant" to build a spec office development/tower downtown. Hmmmm. Could be a match made in heaven.

warreng88
07-18-2013, 03:15 PM
So, just speculation here, but a large downtown law firm has been told it needs to move. Preftakes needs an "anchor tenant" to build a spec office development/tower downtown. Hmmmm. Could be a match made in heaven.

I'm assuming you are talking about Crowe & Dunleavy who still office in the top several floors of the Continental building?

Bellaboo
07-18-2013, 03:56 PM
I'm assuming you are talking about Crowe & Dunleavy who still office in the top several floors of the Continental building?

They have the top 4 floors of Continental's building, at least for a little while longer.

Teo9969
07-18-2013, 04:51 PM
So, just speculation here, but a large downtown law firm has been told it needs to move. Preftakes needs an "anchor tenant" to build a spec office development/tower downtown. Hmmmm. Could be a match made in heaven.

No way a new tower would be done in time.

lasomeday
07-18-2013, 08:41 PM
So, just speculation here, but a large downtown law firm has been told it needs to move. Preftakes needs an "anchor tenant" to build a spec office development/tower downtown. Hmmmm. Could be a match made in heaven.

Hey ChaseDweller, so who moved into the office space Devon left behind them? Is the Chase Tower fully leased?

ChaseDweller
07-19-2013, 02:37 PM
No it is not fully leased, but there are no large blocks of contiguous space that could accommodate a large tenant. IMO, Management is not great and there is a significant amount of deferred maintenance.

Jeepnokc
07-19-2013, 10:08 PM
Last I heard, the law firm had to be out in October. Also, I heard through the grapevine that they 30-40 thousand sq feet at a minimum. I have no clue where they would be going but that is a lot of sq footage needs.

Pete
07-19-2013, 10:14 PM
The Braniff Building may be the only Class A contiguous space that would be available in that timeframe.

HOT ROD
07-20-2013, 02:29 PM
Or maybe the Sandridge building? I forget its new name.

Pete
07-20-2013, 02:38 PM
Or maybe the Sandridge building? I forget its new name.

Parkside. But it won't be open by October... That's only a few months away.

vaflyer
07-20-2013, 03:46 PM
Parkside. But it won't be open by October... That's only a few months away.

I believe the lease expires in October 2015. Another thread on the Continental Oil Center discussed the date.

Pete
07-20-2013, 04:08 PM
^

Thanks for the clarification. That's still a long way away.

UnFrSaKn
07-25-2013, 05:06 AM
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/9365178334_83b4a870b0_b.jpg

Patrick
07-26-2013, 03:38 PM
I really hope that they keep Hotel Black in tact. I'd rather see the tower go in place of the bus station than see Hotel Black torn down. It would make a nice boutique hotel to be right next to a new tower, kinda like the Colcord does with Devon.

catcherinthewry
07-26-2013, 03:45 PM
I really hope that they keep Hotel Black in tact. I'd rather see the tower go in place of the bus station than see Hotel Black torn down. It would make a nice boutique hotel to be right next to a new tower, kinda like the Colcord does with Devon.

Totally agree.

Patrick
07-26-2013, 03:51 PM
Preftakes is just an interesting character that isn't letting anyone see his hand. And when we finally do determine what his plan is, it can change drastically in a matter of minutes.

mcca7596
07-26-2013, 03:51 PM
It seems like just the half-block from the city offices east to Hudson (including Carpenter Square) would be enough space to build a sizable tower. If not there, then just the southeast corner where the bus station is.

bombermwc
07-29-2013, 06:49 AM
Last I heard, the law firm had to be out in October. Also, I heard through the grapevine that they 30-40 thousand sq feet at a minimum. I have no clue where they would be going but that is a lot of sq footage needs.

That's with the assumption that they stay downtown. There are options outside of downtown. My office is about to move about 75K sf to a new location, with almost that much more over the next few years....all to one location. <- NOT downtown.