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G.Walker
02-17-2011, 12:13 PM
What would it take to implement a Casino District in the urban core of Oklahoma City? Could it happen? What are the ramifications? I think this would be a good move by the city council to develop such a district, partner with the tribes, and TIF it! The city would get major kickbacks in return....

SkyWestOKC
02-17-2011, 12:29 PM
Cue Larry_okc naming off every reason why it won't happen in 3....2.....1.....

Everytime a mention a casino downtown, I receive a book of a private message as to why it won't happen.

G.Walker
02-17-2011, 12:31 PM
It doesn't have to be downtown, I was thinking along the south sides of the Oklahoma River, close to Humphrey's development...

BoulderSooner
02-17-2011, 12:33 PM
this has 0% chance of happening ... the city was very much against the shawnee tribe plan to build a big casino in the adventure district and that would have been great for OKC

http://www.okcmajorleague.com/

Swake2
02-17-2011, 12:36 PM
There is no tribe with standing to have land placed in reserve in central Oklahoma. The "unassigned lands", remember? So unless the state changes the laws and allows casino gambling it's not going to happen.

BoulderSooner
02-17-2011, 12:43 PM
this has 0% chance of happening ... the city was very much against the shawnee tribe plan to build a big casino in the adventure district and that would have been great for OKC

http://www.okcmajorleague.com/

which was shot down at the federal level in Nov
http://newsok.com/interior-department-rejects-shawnee-tribe-gaming-bid-for-oklahoma-city/article/3513442

OKCMallen
02-17-2011, 12:44 PM
Personally, I think we need to allow our native tribes to have unrestricted gaming like in Vegas. The money flowing into the state would be huge.

As it is, we absolutely need one big one in the middle of town. Not sure about a district. I think by Remington would be awesome, or downtown/Bricktown.

Kerry
02-17-2011, 12:54 PM
There is a better chance of seeing the LFL in OKC.

BoulderSooner
02-17-2011, 12:54 PM
There is no tribe with standing to have land placed in reserve in central Oklahoma. The "unassigned lands", remember? So unless the state changes the laws and allows casino gambling it's not going to happen.

the Shawnee tribe had that right and still does .. although congress passed a law (after they announced their casino plan) that required them to have a 2 step approval process requiring gov. agreement ..

G.Walker
02-17-2011, 12:58 PM
Isn't Norman considered central Oklahoma, as Riverwind is located there, and its the closest casino of large size to the urban core...excluding Remington Park....

flintysooner
02-17-2011, 01:02 PM
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Okterritory.png

BoulderSooner
02-17-2011, 01:09 PM
good history on the shawnee tribes special rights .. here

http://64.38.12.138/IndianGaming/2010/022607.asp and here http://64.38.12.138/News/2005/009779.asp

G.Walker
02-17-2011, 01:11 PM
I guess I don't get it, then how can New Jersey implement a "casino district" and we can't?

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20101220_N_J__Senate_approves_casino_district__ove rsight_bills.html

Jesseda
02-17-2011, 01:59 PM
Would love a casino district!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesseda
02-17-2011, 02:01 PM
would love to seea casino distrcit outside okc area like around newcastle area, build a strip of 8 casinos like tunica but all in a row.. it will attract some tourist

OKCMallen
02-17-2011, 02:06 PM
I jsut want one on the edge of Bricktown that people can walk to from Bricktown hotels. Imagine how great it would be when there are big events in town!

Bigrayok
02-17-2011, 02:50 PM
[QUOTE=G.Walker;403624]I guess I don't get it, then how can New Jersey implement a "casino district" and we can't?

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20101220_N_J__Senate_approves_casino_district__ove rsight_bills.html[/QU

Oklahoma could implement a "casino district" if it legalized non-indian gambling like New Jersey, Missouri, Nevada, and Mississippi, and a few other states have. The development of Indian gaming in Oklahoma and nationally is somewhat shady in my opinion. Tribal gaming in Oklahoma was originally based the concept of "charitable bingo" which non-tribes can participate in. The tribes figured out they could have slot machines called class II gaming devices if they based the outcome of the game on bingo. They later started offering poker and blackjack because they are "games of skill" instead of games of chance. The state question a few years ago which made an exception to Oklahoma gambling law by allowing Remington Park Racetrack which was not owned by a tribe at that time to have class III gaming devices allowed tribal casinos to have blackjack although that part of the question was not publicized in the advertising I saw promoting the question. The state allows tribes to have class III slot machines if they enter into a compact with the state to pay taxes on the class III games.

The tribes have always pushed the envelope as far as the law is concerned. I think Roulette and craps are supposed to be illegal in Oklahoma but some tribes are getting around the law by offering the games with cards. Some recommend since we have so many casinos in the state, legalize full blown Las Vegas style casinos with games of chance like Roulette, Craps, and Keno and let non-tribal entities compete with the tribes. So far, the tribes have a monoploy on casino gambling in Oklahoma because they are being operated for a "charitable purpose" based on my limited understanding of the law on the issue. New Jersey has non-indian gaming in Atlantic City. That is why they have a casino district.

Bigray in Ok

OKCMallen
02-17-2011, 03:18 PM
[QUOTE=G.Walker;403624]I guess I don't get it, then how can New Jersey implement a "casino district" and we can't?

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20101220_N_J__Senate_approves_casino_district__ove rsight_bills.html[/QU

Oklahoma could implement a "casino district" if it legalized non-indian gambling like New Jersey, Missouri, Nevada, and Mississippi, and a few other states have. The development of Indian gaming in Oklahoma and nationally is somewhat shady in my opinion. Tribal gaming in Oklahoma was originally based the concept of "charitable bingo" which non-tribes can participate in. The tribes figured out they could have slot machines called class II gaming devices if they based the outcome of the game on bingo. They later started offering poker and blackjack because they are "games of skill" instead of games of chance. The state question a few years ago which made an exception to Oklahoma gambling law by allowing Remington Park Racetrack which was not owned by a tribe at that time to have class III gaming devices allowed tribal casinos to have blackjack although that part of the question was not publicized in the advertising I saw promoting the question. The state allows tribes to have class III slot machines if they enter into a compact with the state to pay taxes on the class III games.

The tribes have always pushed the envelope as far as the law is concerned. I think Roulette and craps are supposed to be illegal in Oklahoma but some tribes are getting around the law by offering the games with cards. Some recommend since we have so many casinos in the state, legalize full blown Las Vegas style casinos with games of chance like Roulette, Craps, and Keno and let non-tribal entities compete with the tribes. So far, the tribes have a monoploy on casino gambling in Oklahoma because they are being operated for a "charitable purpose" based on my limited understanding of the law on the issue. New Jersey has non-indian gaming in Atlantic City. That is why they have a casino district.

Bigray in Ok


I wouldn't mind even if the native americans were the only ones allowed: let's just do full-blown gaming and turn Thackerville into Reno and OKC's tax coffers into Vegas'.

OKCNDN
02-17-2011, 03:53 PM
What would it take to implement a Casino District in the urban core of Oklahoma City? Could it happen? What are the ramifications? I think this would be a good move by the city council to develop such a district, partner with the tribes, and TIF it! The city would get major kickbacks in return....

Neither the city nor the state has no right to tax on tribal land. However fees are collected through gaming compacts with the state. And those fees are collected by the state not the city. And those are just on class III games. All class II (which are bingo-based) revenues are fee-free.

And you are right about the kickbacks!!!:ohno: You do know kickbacks are illegal?

Also several city council members have stated that if a native casino (not just a casino, but a NATIVE casino) were to open in Bricktown that they would be in favor of the city not providing utility (water, electric, sewer) and civil (ambulance, street repair) services to the casino. Talk about racist!!!


Oklahoma could implement a "casino district" if it legalized non-indian gambling like New Jersey, Missouri, Nevada, and Mississippi, and a few other states have. The development of Indian gaming in Oklahoma and nationally is somewhat shady in my opinion. Tribal gaming in Oklahoma was originally based the concept of "charitable bingo" which non-tribes can participate in. The tribes figured out they could have slot machines called class II gaming devices if they based the outcome of the game on bingo. They later started offering poker and blackjack because they are "games of skill" instead of games of chance. The state question a few years ago which made an exception to Oklahoma gambling law by allowing Remington Park Racetrack which was not owned by a tribe at that time to have class III gaming devices allowed tribal casinos to have blackjack although that part of the question was not publicized in the advertising I saw promoting the question. The state allows tribes to have class III slot machines if they enter into a compact with the state to pay taxes on the class III games.

The tribes have always pushed the envelope as far as the law is concerned. I think Roulette and craps are supposed to be illegal in Oklahoma but some tribes are getting around the law by offering the games with cards. Some recommend since we have so many casinos in the state, legalize full blown Las Vegas style casinos with games of chance like Roulette, Craps, and Keno and let non-tribal entities compete with the tribes. So far, the tribes have a monoploy on casino gambling in Oklahoma because they are being operated for a "charitable purpose" based on my limited understanding of the law on the issue. New Jersey has non-indian gaming in Atlantic City. That is why they have a casino district.

I do not know if remington park has been placed into trust status with the BIA. All the native casinos in the state have been placed into trust status. But not remington. I do not know if the BIA is going to allow it to be either. When a tribe purchases land they have to declare for what purpose the land is being bought. Gaming or non-gaming is one the things that needs to be declared. It's usually not a big deal to re-purpose land from non-gaming to gaming after the purchase is complete. But not in this case since gaming is already occurring. Not being in trust status means that the state can collect whatever fees that were being collected when under non-indian ownership.

In every advertisement for the legislation which allowed some class III games in Oklahoma I saw that blackjack was going to allowed. This was stated prominently in all advertising that I saw which was most of it.

And technically the state does not collect taxes on class III games because the state does not have the authority to collect taxes on tribal land. Instead the tribes pay "fees" to the state. Big difference right? The state still gets the dollars.

Non-indian establishments are not allowed in the state. The Tribes were smart enough to include exclusivity clauses in their gaming compacts. No non-indian establishments are authorized to open in the state, other than remington and some other small-time track somewhere in OK. But these places have limits on the number of machines and hours of operation. It was part of the trade-off when the state opened up to lotteries. No tribe would open their own lottery in exchange for concessions by the state. No non-tribal entities was one of the concessions.

Dustin
02-17-2011, 04:00 PM
this has 0% chance of happening ... the city was very much against the shawnee tribe plan to build a big casino in the adventure district and that would have been great for OKC

http://www.okcmajorleague.com/

UGHH! I REALLY wanted this to happen! Would've been huge for OKC!

KayneMo
02-17-2011, 07:38 PM
Isn't Norman considered central Oklahoma, as Riverwind is located there, and its the closest casino of large size to the urban core...excluding Remington Park....

I was looking at city limits maps and it looks like Riverwind is technically in Goldsby. Nonetheless, Riverwind is on the south side of the Canadian River, which is Chickasaw Nation.

I think a casino district would do great in the downtown area of OKC, massive hotels would also add to the skyline! :Smiley259

Larry OKC
02-18-2011, 12:41 AM
Cue Larry_okc naming off every reason why it won't happen in 3....2.....1.....

Everytime a mention a casino downtown, I receive a book of a private message as to why it won't happen.

LOL. No need for me to do so, as others have filled in most of the reasoning as to why it can't/won't happen. But let me clarify, I am not against the concept at all. Go to Vegas at least yearly and sometimes to the n-state ones (but I do beter in Vegas).


...I do not know if remington park has been placed into trust status with the BIA. All the native casinos in the state have been placed into trust status. But not remington. I do not know if the BIA is going to allow it to be either. When a tribe purchases land they have to declare for what purpose the land is being bought. Gaming or non-gaming is one the things that needs to be declared. It's usually not a big deal to re-purpose land from non-gaming to gaming after the purchase is complete. But not in this case since gaming is already occurring. Not being in trust status means that the state can collect whatever fees that were being collected when under non-indian ownership.
...

Non-indian establishments are not allowed in the state. The Tribes were smart enough to include exclusivity clauses in their gaming compacts. No non-indian establishments are authorized to open in the state, other than remington and some other small-time track somewhere in OK. But these places have limits on the number of machines and hours of operation. It was part of the trade-off when the state opened up to lotteries. No tribe would open their own lottery in exchange for concessions by the state. No non-tribal entities was one of the concessions.

It is my understanding (which is fuzzy at best on this particular point) that while restrictions exist on a tribe from just going out and buying land and opening up a casino, there seems to be a loophole on them owning an existing casino.

okclee
02-18-2011, 01:05 PM
this has 0% chance of happening ... the city was very much against the shawnee tribe plan to build a big casino in the adventure district and that would have been great for OKC

http://www.okcmajorleague.com/

I must have totally missed this news!

I thought that this was somewhere in the planning stages and was only a matter of time until an official announcement?

Hasn't Remington Park been purchased by an Indian tribe and it too is planning a major Hotel Casino expansion?

Bigrayok
02-18-2011, 01:33 PM
The Chickasaw Tribe's gaming subsidiary purchased Remington Park. They have already announced they are not going to operate it the same way the tribal casinos are operated. For right now, it will only be a slots casino. It is my understanding Remington is not tribal trust land. Even though it is owned by a tribe, it is not being operated as a "tribal casino". I think it is good a local tribe purchased the track. They have already put some money into improving the facilities. Hopefully, it will give the track some ownership stability. Bill Annoatubby, the Governor of the Chickasaw Nation, is one of the shrewdest business people this state has ever seen in my opinion. He has been an amazing leader and economic development advocate.

Bigray in Ok

Kerry
02-18-2011, 01:33 PM
[QUOTE=Bigrayok;403659]


I wouldn't mind even if the native americans were the only ones allowed: let's just do full-blown gaming and turn Thackerville into Reno and OKC's tax coffers into Vegas'.

Have you seen the Vegas tax coffers lately? No one wants that.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/nov/11/report-80-percent-las-vegas-homeowners-underwater-/

Bigrayok
02-18-2011, 02:51 PM
Just to clarify it was not my point, I did not make the post quoted in Kerry's previous post, OKCMallen did who quoted my post. One problem Las Vegas has is they overbuilt high end casinos. The casino developers forgot about the middle class customers that helped contribute to its growth in the 1990's. Station Casinos which made a name for itself with locals casinos that catered to middle class locals started building higher end casinos such as Green Valley Ranch and Red Rock Casino. Although the Fertitta family that have controled the comany over the years have made a ton of money off the UFC, Station Casinos filed Chapter 11 because they overbuilt in Las Vegas and have lost customers to tribal casinos in California. Since the economy tanked, a lot of the higher end casinos have had trouble filling hotel rooms and getting people to gamble.

One risk Oklahoma has is the saturation of too many casinos, especially if Texas ever legalizes casinos. I think Winstar would lose a significant amount of business if any casinos are built in the Dallas area. I remember when Lone Star Park Racetrack was built in Grand Prairie, Texas, Remington Park lost some of its business. Winstar itself has hurt some of the casino business in the Shreveport/Bossier City area that used to come from Dallas. Ever notice the Horseshoe Casino billboards between
Thackerville and Dallas on I-35? I think this is one of the reasons we will not see non-tribal gaming in Oklahoma anytime soon besides the reasons listed in previous posts.

Bigray in Ok

OKCMallen
02-21-2011, 09:31 AM
[QUOTE=OKCMallen;403665]

Have you seen the Vegas tax coffers lately? No one wants that.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/nov/11/report-80-percent-las-vegas-homeowners-underwater-/

I'm not even clicking on the link. If you think full-on legalized gaming in OK wouldn't increase revenues, you need to just delete your messageboard accounts. All of them.

Kerry
02-21-2011, 10:56 AM
Revenue might increase but expenses and other problems grow faster. Las Vegas is not a good model for anyone.

Midtowner
02-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Casinos are trashy. Glad this won't happen in an otherwise pretty nice part of town. The casinos need to be close to their best customers--trailer park dwellers.

I'd be fine with changing the law to allow some none native casinos come in and build, but nowhere close to Bricktown or downtown, please. Sure, it'd mean revenue, but it'd certainly come at a cost. OKC is not going to turn into Vegas. Just forget about that.

Jesseda
02-21-2011, 01:51 PM
your funny midtowner, if you look at a parking lot at a casino on friday night, you see a lot of BMWs, Lincolns, etc, and you see them feeding the machines 100 bills at a time without twitching or thinking twice, hell if thats how the trailer park dwellers people live, put me on the list!

Midtowner
02-21-2011, 01:55 PM
your funny midtowner, if you look at a parking lot at a casino on friday night, you see a lot of BMWs, Lincolns, etc, and you see them feeding the machines 100 bills at a time without twitching or thinking twice, hell if thats how the trailer park dwellers people live, put me on the list!

Having money doesn't exclude you from being or belonging with trailer trash.

Kerry
02-21-2011, 02:02 PM
your funny midtowner, if you look at a parking lot at a casino on friday night, you see a lot of BMWs, Lincolns, etc, and you see them feeding the machines 100 bills at a time without twitching or thinking twice, hell if thats how the trailer park dwellers people live, put me on the list!

You never been to a drug infested trailer park have you?

Larry OKC
02-21-2011, 09:16 PM
Having money doesn't exclude you from being or belonging with trailer trash.

There was a line by Roseanne (when she was married to Tom Arnold and incorporated into the show (think after they won the Lottery) that went something like this: "We are their worst nightmare, white trash with money"

ljbab728
02-21-2011, 10:31 PM
Having money doesn't exclude you from being or belonging with trailer trash.

Midtowner, I'm really surprised at your comments. I've never before taken you to be such an elitist.

Midtowner
02-22-2011, 06:15 AM
Midtowner, I'm really surprised at your comments. I've never before taken you to be such an elitist.

Oh, more of a realist, and a user of inflammatory language for the point of getting my point across. Others are much more elitist than me in that if there was a casino in Bricktown, they wouldn't go. Crime, without question, would be up, it would no longer be the sort of venue you'd want for a lot of the conventions OKC is going after. Let me put it this way--with regard to conventions, having a casino near the premises of the hotel wouldn't win us any conventions, but it'd definitely lose us some.

As for me, myself/I? I actually work for, proudly, I might add, many of those folks who I know would not mesh with the current Bricktown vibe. They pay my mortgage/student loans, etc., that definitively doesn't make me better than them, but different? For sure. That's why they hire me.

Just because a lot of some people like a certain amenity doesn't mean everyone is going to like it.

From a business standpoint, too, nothing about the crowd draw in a casino would be beneficial to the businesses in Bricktown. Casinos have their own restaurants, dance clubs, entertainment, etc. They exist to suck you in and keep you there. Bricktown restaurants work of a sort of synergy. Restaurant A gets you there for dinner, the movie theater shows you a movie, then you go to the club where you dance/drink, then, once that's over, you go to IHOP to sober up, or if you're too far gone and don't want to get a cab, you go get a room at the Hampton. With a casino, the Hampton is the only remaining possible beneficiary there, and even then, probably not, since most casinos are now running their own hotels.

metro
02-22-2011, 08:09 AM
With the logic in this thread, why not legalize a red light district, that will bring in revenue too, and why stop there...

Jesseda
02-22-2011, 08:13 AM
we have a red light district its called 36th and robinson

Midtowner
02-22-2011, 08:24 AM
we have a red light district its called 36th and robinson

Well then by all means! Let us unite it with Bricktown!

OKCMallen
02-22-2011, 10:28 AM
Oh, more of a realist, and a user of inflammatory language for the point of getting my point across. Others are much more elitist than me in that if there was a casino in Bricktown, they wouldn't go. Crime, without question, would be up, it would no longer be the sort of venue you'd want for a lot of the conventions OKC is going after. Let me put it this way--with regard to conventions, having a casino near the premises of the hotel wouldn't win us any conventions, but it'd definitely lose us some.

As for me, myself/I? I actually work for, proudly, I might add, many of those folks who I know would not mesh with the current Bricktown vibe. They pay my mortgage/student loans, etc., that definitively doesn't make me better than them, but different? For sure. That's why they hire me.

Just because a lot of some people like a certain amenity doesn't mean everyone is going to like it.

From a business standpoint, too, nothing about the crowd draw in a casino would be beneficial to the businesses in Bricktown. Casinos have their own restaurants, dance clubs, entertainment, etc. They exist to suck you in and keep you there. Bricktown restaurants work of a sort of synergy. Restaurant A gets you there for dinner, the movie theater shows you a movie, then you go to the club where you dance/drink, then, once that's over, you go to IHOP to sober up, or if you're too far gone and don't want to get a cab, you go get a room at the Hampton. With a casino, the Hampton is the only remaining possible beneficiary there, and even then, probably not, since most casinos are now running their own hotels.

Your opinion has supplanted your logic. This is a rare day. I'm writing it down.

Midtowner
02-22-2011, 10:40 AM
Okay then, Mallen, or whoever:

1) Do you think a casino would attract a Bricktown-friendly demographic? Do casinos elsewhere in the state draw a Bricktown-friendly demographic? If you answered no to either, why would a Bricktown casino be any different than, say, Riverwind?

2) Do casinos inherently bring crime with them? [I think the literature out there conclusively says yes]

3) Is it true that part of the business model of the casino is to keep customers inside, providing for ALL of their needs for as long as possible? Is that compatible with Bricktown's general business model?

OKCMallen
02-22-2011, 10:58 AM
You lowered yourself when you said it won't help with conventions. Yeah. Vegas has a TERRIBLE convention business. Having a casino near the convention area would be huge. I'm pretty sure Harrah's in New Orleans does pretyt well by the Quarter and convention area.

Is there somehow a rash of crime in the parking lot of Remington, Riverwind, etc? I've never once heard that. I like how you "think" think literature is "conclusive." And even if there are studies that state similar findings, that doesn't mean Bricktown would turn into a cesspool of crime. Just that we'd need to be aware and provide a higher level of security so avoid it. Which I'm sure can be arranged in a way the casino fronts most of the cash for that.

#3 is so wrong I don't know where to begin. #1- who said a casino has to complement Bricktown's general business model. #2- you assume a limited number of people that will be sucked away from Bricktown. That's ridiculous. It would bring MORE people to Bricktown. #3- you assume that people do, indeed, go into casinos and never come out to eat, etc. #4-even if people are staying in the casino and all of a sudden never walk around Bricktown, if the casino provides better entertainment and restaurants than Bricktown, then the consumers are getting what they want. #5- kids will never be in casinos, and thus Bricktown is saved that demographic.

Mid, did you get your coffee this AM? You're usually pretty ironclad.

Jesseda
02-22-2011, 11:32 AM
Its funny about the violence, I have seen fights break out in bricktown, more than once.. I have seen fights at the malls, fights infront of mcdonalds, the only violent thing i have seen at a casino is two senior citizens fighting over one of them hogging 3 machines at once, it did get pretty heated I though for a moment that one of the ladies walkers was going to be keyed!!! Common seriously I have never seen violence theft or anything at the casinos i go to which is usually riverwind or firelake.. Some people in this state are narrow minded and thats why we do not have certain things that would attract large tourism

metro
02-22-2011, 11:57 AM
we have a red light district its called 36th and robinson
To clarify your statement, that's South you are referring to, N. 36th and Robinson area is one of the nicer neighborhoods in the city, Crown Heights.

G.Walker
02-22-2011, 12:01 PM
You lowered yourself when you said it won't help with conventions. Yeah. Vegas has a TERRIBLE convention business. Having a casino near the convention area would be huge. I'm pretty sure Harrah's in New Orleans does pretyt well by the Quarter and convention area.

Is there somehow a rash of crime in the parking lot of Remington, Riverwind, etc? I've never once heard that. I like how you "think" think literature is "conclusive." And even if there are studies that state similar findings, that doesn't mean Bricktown would turn into a cesspool of crime. Just that we'd need to be aware and provide a higher level of security so avoid it. Which I'm sure can be arranged in a way the casino fronts most of the cash for that.

#3 is so wrong I don't know where to begin. #1- who said a casino has to complement Bricktown's general business model. #2- you assume a limited number of people that will be sucked away from Bricktown. That's ridiculous. It would bring MORE people to Bricktown. #3- you assume that people do, indeed, go into casinos and never come out to eat, etc. #4-even if people are staying in the casino and all of a sudden never walk around Bricktown, if the casino provides better entertainment and restaurants than Bricktown, then the consumers are getting what they want. #5- kids will never be in casinos, and thus Bricktown is saved that demographic.

Mid, did you get your coffee this AM? You're usually pretty ironclad.

I agree, the success of a casino in Bricktown, would all come down to the class type, I would recommend a Class III (such as slot machines, blackjack, craps, and roulette). This would bring a classier demographic of people to the Bricktown area, in return spending money in the casino as well as Bricktown. The casino could also build adjacent hotel...a casino in Bricktown would do nothing but reinvent and stimulate the economy of Bricktown...

OKCNDN
02-22-2011, 12:43 PM
I agree, the success of a casino in Bricktown, would all come down to the class type, I would recommend a Class III (such as slot machines, blackjack, craps, and roulette). This would bring a classier demographic of people to the Bricktown area, in return spending money in the casino as well as Bricktown. The casino could also build adjacent hotel...a casino in Bricktown would do nothing but reinvent and stimulate the economy of Bricktown...

I respectfully disagree. In Oklahoma there will be no more non-native casinos open up. Tribes have an exclusivity clause in their gaming compacts. Only Remington Park and another small casino at some small racetrack will be non-native. A casino in Bricktown would have to be a native casino.

Class III gaming requires that a tribe pay fees to the state. That would take away from the profits. Tribal casinos do currently have some class III games-video poker, poker, blackjack, keno, craps and roulette played with cards. And of course there is the lottery, pari-mutuel betting (the ponies), off-track betting and of course the annual governor's bet on the OU-Texas game (sports gambling). But class III gaming is illegal in Oklahoma!!!

The types of games really have no impact on the "classiness" of the clientele. And true craps and roulette played with dice and a ball instead of cards would not be a big enough draw. When Oklahoma went from strictly class II (bingo-based games) to a mixture of class II and class III (true las vegas style gambling), players were slow in moving to class III gaming. Class II remained (and remain) a casino's bread and butter.

Security would probably improve in the Bricktown area. The casino would definitely have security guards walking around patrolling casino property. The patrols would not end at 2 am either. A casino would be a round-the-clock operation and so would the patrols. And there would be more security cameras viewing the area and vicinity. Also there would be FREE PARKING!!! No way would a casino charge their customers to park, no way.

Kerry
02-22-2011, 01:36 PM
Not related to gambling per se - but they idea is the same.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/feb/22/reid-vs-brothel-industry/



CARSON CITY — Sen. Harry Reid called for “an adult conversation” about prostitution in Nevada, saying it is an impediment to economic development because it discourages businesses from moving here, according to prepared remarks delivered to the state Legislature this morning.

...

Reid told the assembled lawmakers that he met recently with a group of businessmen who run data centers for technology companies. They visited Storey County in search of a new location for their businesses but “one of the businessmen in that meeting told me he simply couldn’t believe that one of the biggest businesses in the county he was considering for his new home is legal prostitution.”
He said he has talked to families who “don’t want their children to look out of a school bus and see a brothel.”

"We should do everything we can to make sure the world holds Nevada in the same high regard you and I do," Reid continued. "If we want to attract business to Nevada that puts people back to work, the time has come for us to outlaw prostitution."

EBAH
02-22-2011, 03:26 PM
All it would take is the designation of a district by the State and a special set of laws just for that district. I'd be down, but I think it is almost 100% impossible in our state. More desperate states/citys have done it elsewhere in the US. Detroit has an MGM grand and 2 other LARGE casinos within city limits and they did it by passing a state constitutional amendment with special restrictions and rights for inner city detroit. I think the law in Michigan allowed for exactly 3 casinos only for Detroit.

Midtowner
02-22-2011, 03:37 PM
All it would take is the designation of a district by the State and a special set of laws just for that district. I'd be down, but I think it is almost 100% impossible in our state. More desperate states/citys have done it elsewhere in the US. Detroit has an MGM grand and 2 other LARGE casinos within city limits and they did it by passing a state constitutional amendment with special restrictions and rights for inner city detroit. I think the law in Michigan allowed for exactly 3 casinos only for Detroit.

Not sure the state could do that, per se. The state can't pass what you call special laws. The state could, however, allow municipalities of a certain size to allow gambling within certain areas. Now, as NDN pointed out, we have various compacts out there with the tribes, and I have no idea what the implications there are. If they say that we can't open up non native casinos here, besides Remington, then that's the law.

OKCRT
02-22-2011, 05:40 PM
Get with it OKC!!! Get in to the 21st Century and stop with the backwater podunk attitude. Build a damn casino downtown so all of us white trash trailer park residents can go spend OUR hard working dollars there instead of spending them in Shawnee,Norman or El Reno. It doesn't have to be in Bricktown but it does need to be fairly close to the new Conv. Center/Hotel. Don't think for a minute that many of the trailer trash convention folk will not visit a nice casino while they stay in the area. It's a gold mine waiting to happen,for someone. Those that don't like,don't go. Simple.

kevinpate
02-22-2011, 07:15 PM
... If you think full-on legalized gaming in OK wouldn't increase revenues, you need to just delete your messageboard accounts. All of them.

I find I'm undecided. After all, Para-mutual betting was going to be the answer to the prayers. The lottery was going to be the answer to the prayers. Now it's casinos that will be the answer de jour. Mixed in along the way was the slash taxes mantra to send revenues spiraling.

Anymore, anytime someone tells me X is the newest greatest kicker revenue geyser, I start worrying more about my shoe soles getting soaked than I do my head getting wet.

metro
02-22-2011, 08:04 PM
OKCRT, that's a pretty ignorant statement, do you see casinos in progressive cities like Miami, NYC, SF, Portland, Denver?

OKCMallen
02-23-2011, 09:15 AM
I find I'm undecided. After all, Para-mutual betting was going to be the answer to the prayers. The lottery was going to be the answer to the prayers. Now it's casinos that will be the answer de jour. Mixed in along the way was the slash taxes mantra to send revenues spiraling.

Anymore, anytime someone tells me X is the newest greatest kicker revenue geyser, I start worrying more about my shoe soles getting soaked than I do my head getting wet.

You're worried about how the money is spent, it would seem, rather than whether there is actual revenue. I think there is positive revenue for the state lottery. ( I know I'm buying like 5 powerballs on the way home!)

OKCMallen
02-23-2011, 09:17 AM
Get with it OKC!!! Get in to the 21st Century and stop with the backwater podunk attitude. Build a damn casino downtown so all of us white trash trailer park residents can go spend OUR hard working dollars there instead of spending them in Shawnee,Norman or El Reno. It doesn't have to be in Bricktown but it does need to be fairly close to the new Conv. Center/Hotel. Don't think for a minute that many of the trailer trash convention folk will not visit a nice casino while they stay in the area. It's a gold mine waiting to happen,for someone. Those that don't like,don't go. Simple.

Not only white trash likes to gamble. I like to gamble. How does that make me white trash?

Otherwise, I agree with you! :D

OKCMallen
02-23-2011, 09:18 AM
OKCRT, that's a pretty ignorant statement, do you see casinos in progressive cities like Miami, NYC, SF, Portland, Denver?

Does the lack of casinos in those cherry-picked cities somehow make it a bad idea? You'd make a bad attorney. That doesn't prove anything. Those cities all have decades, if not a century or two, of a head start on development. Or they have huge built-in advantages we'll never have (like a bay or being a port).

St. Louis has them. New Orleans has at least one big one. I *WISH* we had the development of StL, and NOLA is like a convention mecca. I'm going to a convention there next month, actually.

Jesseda
02-23-2011, 09:55 AM
metro, they might not be in progressive cities but they are on the borders or them, due indian territory laws, viejas casino is outside of san diego, there is casinos outside of L.A area, there is casinos in and out of albuquerque, st louis, kansas city., the suburbs of pheonix has them. Cities that are not restiricted to indian land gambling and laws has them in the city St Louis, kansas City, New Orleans.. etc.. So um yeah a major casino can work in other cities, why not okc

OKCMallen
02-23-2011, 10:11 AM
metro, they might not be in progressive cities but they are on the borders or them, due indian territory laws, viejas casino is outside of san diego, there is casinos outside of L.A area, there is casinos in and out of albuquerque, st louis, kansas city., the suburbs of pheonix has them. Cities that are not restiricted to indian land gambling and laws has them in the city St Louis, kansas City, New Orleans.. etc.. So um yeah a major casino can work in other cities, why not okc

Well-put. Metro didn't have a viable point.

OKCRT
02-23-2011, 11:06 AM
OKCRT, that's a pretty ignorant statement, do you see casinos in progressive cities like Miami, NYC, SF, Portland, Denver?


Those cities have many more entertainment options than OKC does. You do understand that casinos are more than just gambling,right? Casinos are obviously an entertainment option that people want so why not give them an option in downtown OKC rather than sending them to the suburbs to spend their money?

OKCRT
02-23-2011, 11:09 AM
Not only white trash likes to gamble. I like to gamble. How does that make me white trash?

Otherwise, I agree with you! :D


sarcasm

OKCMallen
02-23-2011, 11:15 AM
Those cities have many more entertainment options than OKC does. You do understand that casinos are more than just gambling,right? Casinos are obviously an entertainment option that people want so why not give them an option in downtown OKC rather than sending them to the suburbs to spend their money?

I don't htink they have a viable answer to that. South Norman isn't rife with crime due to Riverwind.

Midtowner
02-23-2011, 12:08 PM
You lowered yourself when you said it won't help with conventions. Yeah. Vegas has a TERRIBLE convention business. Having a casino near the convention area would be huge. I'm pretty sure Harrah's in New Orleans does pretyt well by the Quarter and convention area.

OKC is and never will be a New Orleans or Las Vegas. Hence, any comparison is probably a waste of time. Too many outside variables.


Is there somehow a rash of crime in the parking lot of Remington, Riverwind, etc? I've never once heard that.

Seeing as how both of these entities are fairly isolated from pedestrian traffic, again, i don't see a strong comparison in either event. It probably wouldn't be difficult to research, but we're not talking about the same sort of development.


I like how you "think" think literature is "conclusive."

A cursory review of the peer-reviewed stuff I came up with on Google shows conclusive results. Of course, one meta study I read did point out that most of these studies don't take into account a number of variables such as adjacent development, etc. Just about everything that's out there does say that there is a correlation between casinos and increased crime.

As far as that goes, Bricktown being what it is, and Oklahomans, being the paranoid fraidy cats we are, just a little crime might really put a big dent in Bricktown's image.


And even if there are studies that state similar findings, that doesn't mean Bricktown would turn into a cesspool of crime. Just that we'd need to be aware and provide a higher level of security so avoid it. Which I'm sure can be arranged in a way the casino fronts most of the cash for that.

We don't need Bricktown to be a "cesspool" in order for its current clientelle to start going to Moore or Quail Springs instead of Bricktown. Just a few tragic incidents is all that'll be required. Look at Crossroads. It was hardly a cesspool, but its reputation, fair or not, only took a few years to kill it.


#3 is so wrong I don't know where to begin. #1- who said a casino has to complement Bricktown's general business model. #2- you assume a limited number of people that will be sucked away from Bricktown. That's ridiculous. It would bring MORE people to Bricktown.

More people to Bricktown doesn't mean more money to Bricktown if we exclude for analysis purposes, the hypothetical dollars being spent at the hypothetical casino. Folks would go there for the casino, casinos being designed as they are designed, they'll stay in the casino, spend all of their money there and then leave. If nothing else, we might actually end up with a well deserved reputation for having a lack of adequate parking.


#3- you assume that people do, indeed, go into casinos and never come out to eat, etc. #4-even if people are staying in the casino and all of a sudden never walk around Bricktown, if the casino provides better entertainment and restaurants than Bricktown, then the consumers are getting what they want.

#3 is a safe assumption because that's how casinos are designed. They will have the cheapest food in Bricktown because their profit model doesn't depend on selling food, and generally speaking, it won't take much for their quality to be on par with (or really better than) everything else in the area. If you want to have an empty riverwalk, go right ahead and put 'em in.

I'm not dead set against a Casino, but if we want to have a diverse set of businesses operating in the area, a Casino is not really compatible.