My employer had been strongly considering moving our offices downtown for a while. It was down to two locations: one downtown office tower and one in the capitol complex. When the locations were presented to the employees (we have about 400), there was an eruption against the downtown location. You know why? Because employees would have to walk farther to get to work. We wouldn't be able to park in a parking lot in front of the office and walk the 50 feet to our desk.

I kid you not, this was a quote, stated in exasperated tones, from one of the employees who was opposed to the downtown location: "If we move downtown, we have to park in a parking garage, which means we'll have to walk A WHOLE BLOCK to get to work!"

A. whole. block. People were horrified at the prospect.

If this is how Oklahomans view walking, creating a truly urban environment downtown is going to be slower going than I imagined.

Not to mention that that whole one block is going to endanger their health!

It is very cultural, starting with the fact that very few residential neighborhoods -- let alone major roadways -- have sidewalks. Just TRY walking somewhere sometime.

Even for the people that make it a point to walk, it seems like most of them go somewhere (and consequently, drive) to do it.

Well, thank God your tax dollars were spent to promote 5320 and a healthier Oklahoma - I'm sure they'll be singing a different tune tomorrow!

I remember though when I worked for an Internet company that relocated downtown in the BOK building. Many people were resistant BEFORE the relocation. However, once we got there and they realized the places they could walk to for lunch, banking, etc. they really enjoyed it.

I'm hoping rates will drop some when people move into the Devon Bldg. and I can move my office downtown. My wife has worked downtown for years and loves it.

If all or nearly all of their walk would be sheltered from bad weather, that gives me less sympathy for them.

On the other hand, people do park in Bricktown and walk to the Ford Center. If you leave a Thunder game there are streams of people walking back into Bricktown after a game. And some people park multiple blocks away, especially when the weather is nice. A lot of it is perspective. If your employer ignored the employees and leased space downtown anyway they'd grumble for a little while and then wouldn't think about it any longer. I read this out loud to my daughters, who walk 3 to 5 blocks to pick up the bus in Chicago and they laughed and said, "That's why they're fat". I've been here 3 days and have walked miles since arriving......in the weather.

My employer had been strongly considering moving our offices downtown for a while. It was down to two locations: one downtown office tower and one in the capitol complex. When the locations were presented to the employees (we have about 400), there was an eruption against the downtown location. You know why? Because employees would have to walk farther to get to work. We wouldn't be able to park in a parking lot in front of the office and walk the 50 feet to our desk.

I kid you not, this was a quote, stated in exasperated tones, from one of the employees who was opposed to the downtown location: "If we move downtown, we have to park in a parking garage, which means we'll have to walk A WHOLE BLOCK to get to work!"

A. whole. block. People were horrified at the prospect.

If this is how Oklahomans view walking, creating a truly urban environment downtown is going to be slower going than I imagined.

So does this mean downtown is out of the question? Because your company would be warmly embraced moving to downtown, and the employees might find out there's also a lot of cool things they can walk to if they office downtown, and not just a parking garage.

If this is how Oklahomans view walking, creating a truly urban environment downtown is going to be slower going than I imagined.


Or your boss could just speed things up and make the smart decision to locate downtown.

Granted I dont know the costs involved but all things equal, downtown would be the better place to go. Employess will adapt. Also, 400 is a lot of employees.

Or your boss could just speed things up and make the smart decision to locate downtown.

Granted I dont know the costs involved but all things equal, downtown would be the better place to go. Employess will adapt. Also, 400 is a lot of employees.

While their are advantages to downtown, not every space is a good fit and would clearly show that the were not valuing employees feedback. I have seen some terrible locations proposed for companies downtown given their needs. The walking one block does seem a bit of a non issue, however grumbling about little issues probably means that they are not the only ones. If the facility was top notch, had good restaurants and some other nice things around it you would probably here little complaints. If they expect that the building is run down (or at least a step down from current office), worried about safety or how hard it will be to get around to eat lunch in the area you will hear people complain about everything they can think of.

On the other hand, people do park in Bricktown and walk to the Ford Center. If you leave a Thunder game there are streams of people walking back into Bricktown after a game. And some people park multiple blocks away, especially when the weather is nice. A lot of it is perspective. ...
Exactly. Or to put it another way, the purpose for the walk. If it is for work (or something you have to do), built in resistance. If it is for pleasure, think the opposite is the case.

I work downtown. I park in a parking garage and walk a block-and-a-half to the office. It's actually nice to have that walking time as I get prepared for the workday in the morning and as I leave my work behind in the evening. I love working downtown.

So does this mean downtown is out of the question? Because your company would be warmly embraced moving to downtown, and the employees might find out there's also a lot of cool things they can walk to if they office downtown, and not just a parking garage.

Unfortunately, due to the feedback against having to park and walk, they decided to move to the other location in the capitol complex. I was a strong advocate of moving downtown and was able to convince a lot of people that it would be much nicer, but it was too few, too late. In fact, the CEO preferred the downtown location, but he's also someone who wants to please the employees. I'm actually kind of pissed off about it.

Someone else mentioned it, but many (MOST) of those opposed to the move were--sorry to be so crude-- fat as a can be; the type that is out of breath after walking 20 feet. So, while I'm disappointed we won't be moving downtown, I'm not entirely surprised.

I'm just angry because I've went to school in towns where I had to walk at least 4 miles a day to get to class, between classes, to eat, and back home--and I loved it. The fact that someone was exasperated because we'd have to walk a "whole block" just blew my mind.

Can you give us more details?

You mentioned about 400 employees, where is your company relocating from?

It is interesting that of all places the Capitol area wins out over downtown. That really surprises me! I can think of so many other areas for a company to choose, if they don't like downtown Okc, before I would list the Capitol area.

I would think the CEO could do a better job on selling his downtown preference to your fellow employees.

Well paying to park is a big thing too. Being downtown does make it take longer to get in/out of work. Not only do you walk but you have to get in and out of the area that has higher traffic. That's one reason why so many people aren't in downtown. Personally, i would like it, but it can also be a pain if you aren't used to it.

Unless I got my parking validated every day and never had to pay, I wouldn't work downtown....that's just something to keep in mind when you look for a job. Our office has stayed out of downtown for many reasons, parking being one. Rent is higher, the telcom lines aren't as good, traffic, etc. It's really a matter of if it's a good fit for your company or not. For us, we could be anywhere in the city and it wouldn't matter, but being close to the airport rather than downtown has been incredibly valuable....the hotel abundance on Meridian for clients/execs visiting, proximity to the airport FedEx office for those last minute client shipments that MUST go overnight, easy access to multiple highways. For us it makes more sense NOT to be downtown, but for some (especially those that work in energy or legal), it can be very beneficial to be close to the action.

Has anyone seen the sprawling parking lots at the Oklahoma Capitol Complex? Even if the parking lot is right next to the building, your parking space might be 400 feet away. When I worked in downtown Tampa I walked 2 blocks from the parking lot to the office. I walk further parking at the mall so it was no big deal and was actually good for me. Plus there were soooo many benefits to working downtown. I could pay bills, get a haircut, do some shopping, etc. on my lunch hour so I didn't have to do it on my way home.

It helped that my employer paid for our parking but if he hadn't then I would have had to factor that in as the cost of working there and made my employment decision accordingly.

Maybe downtown could benefit from those electric scooters the morbidly obese use to get around the Super Wal Mart?

Maybe downtown could benefit from those electric scooters the morbidly obese use to get around the Super Wal Mart?

My guess is the lady doing the complaining already has one.

My guess is the lady doing the complaining already has one.

+10 internets for you sir.

As I said before, aversion to walking is very cultural in OKC.

Think about this... Where are there even sidewalks in or around town? Apart from some old neighborhoods near downtown and I can't think of one subdivision that has them at all! It's outrageous if you think about it.

When I come in town, I typically stay with a friend in Oak Tree. What they have done is even worse... They actually have sidewalks that run right up against the street but then every house has a huge brick mailbox right in the middle! The net effect is that you can't even use the things; and certainly nobody does.

I can't even think of a major thoroughfare that has sidewalks next to it.

I never really noticed the absence of sidewalks around OKC before. I just assumed they were in the subdivisions - but I see from Google Earth they are not. What a huge mistake. In Tampa every road is required to have one on both sides of the street but here in Jax they are only required on one side of the street.

There are virtually zero sidewalks north of 36th and west of Penn.

It's comical, because most intersections have marked crosswalks but absolutely no way to get to them! Try walking along any of the "grid streets" sometime. It's almost impossible.

I never really noticed the absence of sidewalks around OKC before. I just assumed they were in the subdivisions - but I see from Google Earth they are not. What a huge mistake. In Tampa every road is required to have one on both sides of the street but here in Jax they are only required on one side of the street.

I think the difference between Tampa and Jacksonville & Oklahoma City is that T and J have been around a lot longer and Oklahoma City being a young up and comer is now faced with the facts of poor planning in the past and the cost associated with making it like those other cities who did it right the first time. This is an automobile city due to it's size. It's not a walkability city.

I highly doubt most people who park downtown are within a block of work...could do a survey?

Also, the costs are definitely high.

I highly doubt most people who park downtown are within a block of work...could do a survey?

Also, the costs are definitely high.

I worked for a company here in Jax that spent a little over a $1,000,000 resurfacing their parking lot. They also pay property tax on the sprawling parking lot. How many months of parking would that pay for?

As I said before, aversion to walking is very cultural in OKC.

Apparently my office is odd then, the number one thing people liked about the place we relocated to (after our office flooded a few months ago) was that it had such a good place to walk in the complex during breaks. From what I can tell at least one quarter are using the space for it.

Snowman, I just meant the way the city has been developed, people get used to not walking.

It generally takes an EFFORT to get out and walk, which is why people probably walk while on work breaks.

As I said before, aversion to walking is very cultural in OKC.

Think about this... Where are there even sidewalks in or around town? Apart from some old neighborhoods near downtown and I can't think of one subdivision that has them at all! It's outrageous if you think about it.

When I come in town, I typically stay with a friend in Oak Tree. What they have done is even worse... They actually have sidewalks that run right up against the street but then every house has a huge brick mailbox right in the middle! The net effect is that you can't even use the things; and certainly nobody does.

I can't even think of a major thoroughfare that has sidewalks next to it.
That was by design, Paul Brum and his predecessor seemed to hate sidewalks. My parents neighborhood was built in the mid-50's on the west edge of OKC at the time and they have no sidewalks. When my father was doing the Lake Hefner Parkway project Brum said that he wouldn't approve the overpasses with sidewalks going to them. In one exchange with Brum he told him since it uses federal dollars, it's going to have sidewalks...that is unless the City of OKC wants to pick up the tab for the entire federal portion of the project.

That's completely believable and matches the Paul Brum I knew.

Well, sidewalks are starting to go in on the southside. I know on 119th between May and Penn they are installing sidewalks with intersections ramps all the way down that stretch of mile. For most of the journey it's right next to the street -- but that's mainly due to the elevation change between the street and the neighborhoods which sit some 5 or so feet above street level. As time goes on, and more sidewalks are installed throughout the metro, walking will begin to set into the culture as the children who will begin to use those sidewalks now, will be accustomed to it when they begin to have the power. (vote, sit in office, etc.)

Didn't they change some ordinances a few years ago so that all new developments must include sidewalks along arterial street frontage? I've also noticed sidewalks in the interiors of a lot of far northwest neighborhoods, but they don't help much when they are on winding subdivision streets that have only one access point to arterials.

Didn't they change some ordinances a few years ago so that all new developments must include sidewalks along arterial street frontage? I've also noticed sidewalks in the interiors of a lot of far northwest neighborhoods, but they don't help much when they are on winding subdivision streets that have only one access point to arterials.

Think it is required for new neighborhoods. It does allow for exercise and visiting neighbors, and the intangible, you do not actually own this spot so don't go stupid and build something over lines you did not know were their.

That's completely believable and matches the Paul Brum I knew.

OK, please educate me(us). I've never heard of this person but what possible reason did he have for his dislike of sidewalks???

Mug, he was the very powerful head of public works for about 20 years. To be fair, toward the end of his tenure he began to loosen up when it came to streetscapes, sidewalks, trees, etc. But I heard him first hand talk against tree plantings, and saw him favoring fairly bland, utilitarian infrastructure time and time again. Again, to be fair, he saw his mission as this: move traffic through town as fast as possible. And at that he did a very good job.

That explains a few things. Thanks for the education.

Again, to be fair, he saw his mission as this: move traffic through town as fast as possible. And at that he did a very good job.

Maybe we needed someone who thought their mission was: stop and smell the roses

Because there are no sidewalks in our neighborhood, we drive to Lake Hefner and walk around the main pedestrian only path called 'Bert Cooper Loop'. It's great to have this place, but the cheap asphalt that was used has buckled and broken over the years causing it to become precarious and ugly. I hope there will be a move toward replacing this old pedestrian path with a better material in the future before it becomes too dangerous to navigate. Recently, the city has been adding new concrete paths extending from the lake outward to the neighborhoods and these are very well done, but from appearances not widely used.

As far as working downtown is concerned I have always romanticized the idea, it seems so cool. I've just never had the chance. I can't imagine a short walk being a dealbreaker, though.

Could you tell me exactly where this is? I am not familiar with this.


It is very close to Stars and Stripes park, just SE of it, adjacent to a baseball field...tucked in there. Best views of the lake to be had.

One thing I've noticed while driving along Rockwell, MacArthur, or Meridian, North of Reno, is the well defined grooves/paths worn into the grass from pedestrian traffic. You would think this would be a hint to city planners that sidewalks are desperately needed in these areas. What's worse is seeing someone in a wheelchair having to use one of these very busy streets to get where they are going.

Because there are no sidewalks in our neighborhood, we drive to Lake Hefner and walk around the main pedestrian only path called 'Bert Cooper Loop'. It's great to have this place, but the cheap asphalt that was used has buckled and broken over the years causing it to become precarious and ugly. I hope there will be a move toward replacing this old pedestrian path with a better material in the future before it becomes too dangerous to navigate. Recently, the city has been adding new concrete paths extending from the lake outward to the neighborhoods and these are very well done, but from appearances not widely used.

As far as working downtown is concerned I have always romanticized the idea, it seems so cool. I've just never had the chance. I can't imagine a short walk being a dealbreaker, though.

For rollerblading I much prefer asphalt to concrete, if it is buckling I would bet that it is poor preparation of the foundation rather that the asphalt itself, which would eventually break whatever surface it is made of.

One thing I've noticed while driving along Rockwell, MacArthur, or Meridian, North of Reno, is the well defined grooves/paths worn into the grass from pedestrian traffic. You would think this would be a hint to city planners that sidewalks are desperately needed in these areas. What's worse is seeing someone in a wheelchair having to use one of these very busy streets to get where they are going.

There's just as many worn areas adjacent to the trails at Hefner and Overholser, I, and many of my jogging friends prefer the grass/dirt over paved trails, easier on the feet and ankles.

I kid you not, this was a quote, stated in exasperated tones, from one of the employees who was opposed to the downtown location: "If we move downtown, we have to park in a parking garage, which means we'll have to walk A WHOLE BLOCK to get to work!"

It's a trade-off. Yes, I have to walk a block or so from the parking garage. But on the other hand, I haven't had to scrape the ice off my windshield after work in over nine years! That's well worth the price of the walk to me.