View Full Version : Thoughts on Robinson Ave--streetcar-appropriate?

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02-20-2011, 09:12 AM
Keep up the good work Jeff. I hope you weren't discouraged or annoyed by some of the questions I was asking, that's just what I do I guess. You and the entire MTP group (I'm not sure about the entire subcommittee) have the full support of anyone who wants to see an urban OKC..23rd/Classen or no 23rd/Classen.

02-21-2011, 08:42 PM
While originally I did not care much either way, the more I thing about it, the more I am for it going both ways on Robinson and not on Broadway. To face facts OKC is not a highly density population and a significant portion would rather not live in an urban development and even if the motivation was their it would take decades for a real shift. The plan has to accommodated cars and trucks to get in/out to really begin the transition in the first place. By promoting Broadway/Gaylord as the car route and Robinson as trolley/pedestrian route it make it safer and gives a core to build out from between the two. Some simple building restrictions like parking garages/lots must open onto Broadway or other non Robinson streets gives a clear path through the city for both the trolley and pedestrians. Also any transportation system is a network as such increases in value as it reaches more points, so connections need to be made efficiently. Having the rails split makes interconnections more complex and transfer points even less convenient for users. Having auto, trolley and pedestrian so intermixed can slow down all users and increase frustration with the system and area.

Urban Pioneer
02-21-2011, 09:35 PM
Good points. One of the reasons that the N/S on on the interior subsequently attempting to create a safe pedestrian environment between the block.

It all depends on the intuitiveness of the design.

One thing that has come up lately is the possible need for such development overlays. I think that will become even more relevant as the impacts need to be "positively channeled."

Urban Pioneer
02-21-2011, 09:37 PM
One other thing, the couplet design also reduces our utility relocation costs allowing for more track overall. At least that's what we think "pre-engineering."

02-22-2011, 01:48 AM
Snowman: How can the rail NOT go down Broadway? That is the absolute best urban fabric this city has.

You suggest that should be the auto-centric entrance to downtown?? Why do Robinson and Broadway have to serve two totally opposite purposes? That also makes no sense to me. You enforce the same development standards and goals on every street in downtown. Ideally.

02-22-2011, 09:08 PM
I am not calming to be an expert but that was just my thoughts.

As the core of a trolley system it should have the most ridership and branches off it, along with the most frequent traffic of trolleys, delays their will affect the entire system so I think it would need higher standards than any other place in the city. Outside of a loop being made with the use of Classen it may be the only major north/south connector in the city core. Between Broadway and Robinson seems to be some of the most likely places that we can get any high rise building in the near future that might even consider a street level retail, high rise living/office space and parking garages. I have concerns the mall concept will at best create a island of much smaller commercial/retail developments, who's scale will lead them to try more suburban designs and reduce the chances of ever developing anything more dense than bricktown.

02-24-2011, 03:22 PM
Wait, so why does the couplet work wonders in Portland, but will actually do the opposite here in OKC? Another question, if traffic disruption is a concern--then it would seem to be more of a benefit with Broadway which has virtually nowhere near the traffic that its capacity is designed to handle, and if traffic does some day become an issue on Broadway, there is much much more room in that right of way than in Robinson. So Broadway could have a dedicated streetcar lane. It will get restriped soon anyway, taking away a lane to replace the parallel parking with back-in angled parking. Which is another benefit because it will give Broadway a much expanded parking capacity, so A-Alley could become a good place to park and ride. Whereas there is ZERO parking capacity along Robinson because the right of way is so narrow.

I am not saying that detracts from Robinson, I am just using it as a supporting reason that I think the two streets compliment each other really, really well...and a couplet could work very nicely. Also, I wasn't attacking your credibility or anything like that, and I know you've never called yourself an expert. An expert is so subjective, and I don't think it's relevant because there aren't BAD decisions here. I'm really just asking questions and such, so if it seems like I'm coming across terse and direct, it's mostly just because I've been around Swedes for over a month now who are both of those the max.