Here we go, politicians are working on new liquor laws and the liquor lobbyists are working on keeping the status quo. This may be the last stand for current Okla liquor laws. Will we actually get to vote?


Oklahoma liquor law changes proposed

Several pieces of legislation designed to bring wine and strong beer to grocery stores have been filed by Oklahoma legislators this year.

BY JOHN ESTUS Oklahoman Comment on this article 0
Published: January 31, 2011

Legislators have proposed sweeping reforms to Oklahoma alcohol laws they say will modernize the laws and bring a larger variety of alcohol products to more locations statewide.
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“There’s enough people that want the change that we’re going to have a change,” said Sen. Clark Jolley, R-Edmond.

Jolley and other lawmakers have filed a slew of alcohol-related bills to be considered this year that would let voters decide on an array of changes to state alcohol laws.

Among the ideas are allowing wine and strong-beer sales in grocery and convenience stores, products other than alcohol to be sold in liquor stores and direct shipments of wine to consumers.

Currently, grocery and convenience stores only can sell low-point beer; liquor retailers only can sell nonrefrigerated wine; liquor and beer and consumers cannot receive direct shipments of wine from wineries or other businesses. The proposals require changes to the Oklahoma Constitution, which requires a vote of the people.

Jolley said consumers and business owners are “crying out” for modernization of alcohol laws in Oklahoma.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-liquor-law-changes-proposed/article/3536905#ixzz1CdEroxlE

As a consumer, all I want is refrigerated products in liquor stores. IMO, that's the dumbest law we have on the subject. I don't really care if grocery stores have it or not, I just want to be able to get it somewhere, and I think it should start with the liquor stores.

As for using legislation to protect local businesses, I don't mind it at face value, but what I can't reconcile is why people think alcohol retailers and distributors should get the protection, while we actually subsidize national retailers to compete with locals in other sectors?

Totally agreed BDP -- But, I guess my gripe is a little different-- yeah, it's great that they want to (hopefully) do away with low-point beer (never really got that in the first place) and I completely agree with adding coolers to liquor stores, but with all this "crying out" for 'modernization' where is the verbiage that removes the ban on alcohol sales on Sunday's as well as holiday and election days? Long gone are the days of liquoring someone up and driving them over to the polling booths.

We're already acclimated to adding a liquor store stop to our errands so unless there's a benefit for locally owned grocery stores to get it, isn't this much ado over nothing?

I think allowing grocers to sell alcohol is the most important part, as it will really help to get some decent grocery chains in the state.

I know everyone is excited about Whole Foods but pretty much all cities the size of OKC have many more options.

Legislators, in my experience, respond to communication from constituents. I would suggest we all write our legislator and ask them to support this legislation.

I think allowing grocers to sell alcohol is the most important part, as it will really help to get some decent grocery chains in the state.

I know everyone is excited about Whole Foods but pretty much all cities the size of OKC have many more options.

I think everyone would be blown away about how far behind the grocery stores are in Oklahoma. We have Publix here in Florida and Georgia and the wine profits allow them build much nicer grocery stores.

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00135/ntp_publix082010_135943c.jpg

http://www.tuttitalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Publix-Store-1009-640w.jpg

http://ci.ftlaud.fl.us/neighborhoods/cab2004/publix.jpg

For some reason, this time I actually do think the Okla liquor laws will be changed and it will happen this year. Having the Okc chamber of commerce so vocal about the making changes is refreshing. I hope that "we the people" have the opportunity to be heard on these liquor law changes with a vote on multiple items too.

Not sure how many changes we will actually see, but I would like to see our laws changed to being some of the most liberal alcohol laws in the U.S. Here is a few that come to mind.

1) Wine, Beer (refrigerated), Liquor all to be sold in grocers, convenient stores, or designate liquor stores.
2) Open for business and sales on Sunday's, holidays, and election days.
3) Hours of operation to be decided by the vendor.
4) Allowing kids of all ages to be present in a liquor store with an adult over 21. If one can purchase beer at a grocery store with minors present, why can't minors be present inside liquor stores?
5) ..... I'm sure there is more too.

Again contact the politicians and let it be known that if you would like to see changes made.

Click link below to find your Legislators;
http://www.capitolconnect.com/oklahoma/default.aspx

I would be fine with the following changes:

1) 3.2+ Beer and Wine available in grocery stores and convenience stores (all liquor/more variety of beer/wine still sold in liquor stores as it is now)
2) Liquor stores open on Sunday and 3.2+ Beer/Wine Sales 7 Days a Week
3) All beer/wine/liquor sales in liquor stores, grocery stores and convenience stores end at midnight
4) Allow 3.2+ brewing and distributing onsite (allowing microbreweries to brew/sell 3.2+ beer)

I would love to see a COOP Ale Works brewpub in OKC, a Coach's brewpub in Norman (they only sell 3.2 now because of the law), a Marshall's brewpub in Tulsa, and so on...

would love to see the elimination of low point beer .. and with it allowing high point to be sold/distribuated everywhere

As a consumer, all I want is refrigerated products in liquor stores. IMO, that's the dumbest law we have on the subject. I don't really care if grocery stores have it or not, I just want to be able to get it somewhere, and I think it should start with the liquor stores.

As for using legislation to protect local businesses, I don't mind it at face value, but what I can't reconcile is why people think alcohol retailers and distributors should get the protection, while we actually subsidize national retailers to compete with locals in other sectors?

Let me help you with this.

Cold beer in 3 minutes:

1) Fill sink with beer cans/bottles you desire to chill.
2) Fill sink with ice and water (ice water).
3) Dump about a cup of salt in there, stir.

3 minutes later, you'll have cold beer.

Some people would just be happy to buy tortilla chips at the same place they buy tequila or a corkscrew at the same place that sells products with corks in them.

I love Publix, wish they would come to OKC! Won't happen any time soon since they are pretty much a Southeast/east coast type thing.

Let me help you with this.

Cold beer in 3 minutes:

1) Fill sink with beer cans/bottles you desire to chill.
2) Fill sink with ice and water (ice water).
3) Dump about a cup of salt in there, stir.

3 minutes later, you'll have cold beer.

Done it many times. It's ridiculous.

Besides, the main reason to have it cold in the store is that it will be stored cold. Some manufacturers will not sell to Oklahoma because it will be stored warm.

Some people would just be happy to buy tortilla chips at the same place they buy tequila or a corkscrew at the same place that sells products with corks in them.

Amen!

I really hope that this will be enough to lure some of those grocery stores here. I am so tired of the crappy quality of products that we have to put up with. Also, I am tired of hitting about five stores to get everything I want (big retail grocer, organic/health grocer, liquor store, farmer's market, meat market, etc.).

Today, with not much to do, is a great day to compose a good letter to go out my congressman and perhaps a few others in support of this.

I really hope that this will be enough to lure some of those grocery stores here. I am so tired of the crappy quality of products that we have to put up with. Also, I am tired of hitting about five stores to get everything I want (big retail grocer, organic/health grocer, liquor store, farmer's market, meat market, etc.).

I did this exact thing yesterday.

Made 3 stops for my grocery list and added 1 other stop to the liquor store. Also added one extra stop in order to drop off my child back home before I could enter the liquor store. I don't usually do all that in one day, but with winter storm coming, it was necessary. In some states my grocery list could have been an all in one type of store, not Oklahoma.

I agree with betts too, today is a good day for writing to the state legislature for support in changing the liquor laws.

Today, with not much to do, is a great day to compose a good letter to go out my congressman and perhaps a few others in support of this.

Ditto, just submitted a letter form email to Representative Cooksey.

Totally agreed BDP -- But, I guess my gripe is a little different-- yeah, it's great that they want to (hopefully) do away with low-point beer (never really got that in the first place) and I completely agree with adding coolers to liquor stores, but with all this "crying out" for 'modernization' where is the verbiage that removes the ban on alcohol sales on Sunday's as well as holiday and election days? Long gone are the days of liquoring someone up and driving them over to the polling booths.
?

Aren't liqour stores now open on election days? I thought it has been that way since 2007.


I think these changes should be allowed.

Higher alcohol content beer that is refrigerated.
End beer sales at 1 am. Too many people running to convenience store from bar right before 2 am. The Shell on Reno in OKC now closes from 1:45 am to 2:15 am just to avoid having to deal with people coming from the 2 nearby gentlemen's clubs to buy beer at the last second.
Liquor stores open until 11 pm.
Allow liquor stores to sell related paraphernalia, ie corkscrews, shot glasses, coasters, wine glasses, shakers, etc.. Heck maybe even cigarettes! (but no smoking paraphernalia (bongs, papers)


Not sure about allowing a kid into a liquor store is a good idea. This is just asking for trouble. In some instances it would be hard to tell just who the kid is and who the adult is. I guarantee you that there would be a person who just turned 21 a few weeks earlier who brings in some 19-20 year old's with them into the liquor store. And you know, you could just tell, that the under-age people would later be drinking the booze just purchased.

I do not think convenience stores and other places that sell 3.2 beer want to sell the higher point beer. That would mean the store would have to comply with the same regulations that liquor stores have to comply with now. Those requirements are much tougher than what they have to deal with now. Wouldn't the grocer/convenience store need a liquor license? Those things are expensive.

Allow micro-breweries to sell their product to the consumer for non-premises consumption (allow the buyer to take it home with them), if this isn't already occurring. Example, Bricktown Brewery could sell a jug to a customer who just ate and the customer could take it home.

I found this link about Oklahoma liquor laws (http://ofalr.com/).

This was an interesting part of the linked article. A compromise could be allowing liquor stores to sell refrigerated strong beer and requiring grocery stores to sell warm beer only. That would give a competitive advantage to small businesses that might negate their concern about losing wine sales.

"Consumer demographics have changed since 1933. Sunday has become the second-busiest retail shopping day of the week. As consumers spend Sundays at malls, shopping for groceries and eating and drinking at restaurants, Oklahoma’s spirits merchants have no choice but to turn customers away at the door. As a result, the state flushes millions in much-needed tax revenue down the drain while forcing private small-business owners to unwillingly inconvenience potential Sunday customers.
According to a recent economic analysis of statewide Sunday sales, Oklahoma stands to gain more than $3 million in added state tax revenues simply by repealing this outmoded sales ban. When every penny counts, that’s significant.

A national analysis of states that allowed Sunday sales between 2002 and 2005 (12 states) showed that in 2006, each state saw an average 5 percent to 7 percent increase in tax revenues. Importantly, these states saw zero negative social impact such as increased drunken driving or underage drinking. Colorado, the most recent state to enact Sunday sales, even saw its 2008 alcohol excise tax revenue collection increase by 6 percent despite the toll of the recession."

Not sure about allowing a kid into a liquor store is a good idea. This is just asking for trouble. In some instances it would be hard to tell just who the kid is and who the adult is. I guarantee you that there would be a person who just turned 21 a few weeks earlier who brings in some 19-20 year old's with them into the liquor store. And you know, you could just tell, that the under-age people would later be drinking the booze just purchased.

I agree somewhat, but I can remember my wife stopping to pick up a bottle of wine on her way home and being yelled at by the lady behind the counter that she would have to put my daughter (who was in a baby carrier) back in the car. All because she wasn't 21 (more like 10 months) and therefore barred from entering a liquor store. Sounded a little extreme to us but it was the law.
Maybe a compromise could be worked out that would prevent both of our scenarios.

I would be fine with the following changes:

1) 3.2+ Beer and Wine available in grocery stores and convenience stores (all liquor/more variety of beer/wine still sold in liquor stores as it is now)
2) Liquor stores open on Sunday and 3.2+ Beer/Wine Sales 7 Days a Week
3) All beer/wine/liquor sales in liquor stores, grocery stores and convenience stores end at midnight
4) Allow 3.2+ brewing and distributing onsite (allowing microbreweries to brew/sell 3.2+ beer)

I would love to see a COOP Ale Works brewpub in OKC, a Coach's brewpub in Norman (they only sell 3.2 now because of the law), a Marshall's brewpub in Tulsa, and so on...

LOL, why keep a relic from the age of Prohibition alive, 3.2 beer? Why woud it be real smart to keep 3.2 beer?

The retailer should also have the option to deliver to the customer.

I think everyone would be blown away about how far behind the grocery stores are in Oklahoma. We have Publix here in Florida and Georgia and the wine profits allow them build much nicer grocery stores.

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00135/ntp_publix082010_135943c.jpg

http://www.tuttitalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Publix-Store-1009-640w.jpg

http://ci.ftlaud.fl.us/neighborhoods/cab2004/publix.jpg

i miss publix. always nice, clean and well stocked.

i miss publix. always nice, clean and well stocked.

Someday when we move away from Florida, Publix will be one of the three things I will miss the most.

I think everyone would be blown away about how far behind the grocery stores are in Oklahoma. We have Publix here in Florida and Georgia and the wine profits allow them build much nicer grocery stores.

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00135/ntp_publix082010_135943c.jpg

http://www.tuttitalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Publix-Store-1009-640w.jpg

http://ci.ftlaud.fl.us/neighborhoods/cab2004/publix.jpg

WOW Publix sure has changed since I lived in Florida...but that was 25 years ago now

Done it many times. It's ridiculous.

By "ridiculous", do you mean it's futile, or it's the schnizzle?

Never mind, I went back and paid attention to who was posting what...

So what are some good proposed bills to get behind on and ask our state senators or representatives to cosponsor or whatever?

I took a trip of to our local Total Wine last night and noticed kids (7-10 years old) in the store. I asked the manager about it and he said kids were allowed as long as someone was over 21. He said they id everyone that even looks close to 21 regardless of what they are buying. If you are not 21 you cannot buy it, even if it is 2-liter bottle of Coke. They will not sell anything to anyone under 21. He said that pretty much keeps the teenagers out and cuts down on potential shoplifting.

So what are some good proposed bills to get behind on and ask our state senators or representatives to cosponsor or whatever?

HJR1010...

This measure amends the Oklahoma Constitution. The changes would let stores that sell food sell wine. This would mean that grocery stores could sell wine. The changes would let liquor stores sell wine, beer and mixed beverage coolers cold. It would also allow liquor stores to sell nonalcoholic beverages designed to be mixed with alcoholic beverages. The Legislature would write laws on this.
SHALL THE PROPOSAL BE APPROVED?
FOR THE PROPOSAL — YES _____________
AGAINST THE PROPOSAL — NO _____________

HJR1034...

This measure amends the Oklahoma Constitution. It would do away with the low-point beer system. The ABLE Commission would regulate all beer. The changes would let stores that sell food sell wine and beer. This would mean that grocery stores could sell wine and beer of any strength. The Legislature would write laws on this.
SHALL THE PROPOSAL BE APPROVED?
FOR THE PROPOSAL — YES _____________
AGAINST THE PROPOSAL — NO _____________

HJR1015...

This measure amends the Oklahoma Constitution. The changes would let stores that sell liquor sell other things. This would mean that liquor stores could sell nonalcoholic items. The changes would let liquor stores sell nonalcoholic beverages designed to be mixed with alcoholic beverages. It would also allow liquor stores to sell wine and spirit accessories. The Legislature would write laws on this.
SHALL THE PROPOSAL BE APPROVED?
FOR THE PROPOSAL — YES _____________
AGAINST THE PROPOSAL — NO _____________

Like Oklahoma, Kansas is also looking at updating their liquor laws.

A research paper prepared by KU business professor Art Hall “Common Sense Reform for Kansas: How updating outdated alcohol laws will grow state revenues and spur economic growth”, offers plenty of positive reasons for updating Kansas liquor laws.

A few highlights from the 19 page paper include;

“Deregulation over time could result in 15,000 new jobs, $340 to $350 million in extra wages, and roughly $72 million in increases tax revenues annually to state and local governments once all the economic adjustments took place.”

“Research suggests Kansas would have 25 percent more grocery stores, 34 percent more convenience stores, and 58 percent fewer liquor stores if his proposal were adopted. This means Kansas could expect 116 more grocery stores, 449 more convenience stores, and 341 fewer liquor stores.”

“Deregulation proposal would help viability of convenience and grocery stores in rural areas.’

Here is a link for the full report:

http://www.jobsforkansas.com/wp-content/uploads/Common-sense-reform-for-Kansas-01-13-11_D1.pdf

Totally agreed BDP -- But, I guess my gripe is a little different-- yeah, it's great that they want to (hopefully) do away with low-point beer (never really got that in the first place) and I completely agree with adding coolers to liquor stores, but with all this "crying out" for 'modernization' where is the verbiage that removes the ban on alcohol sales on Sunday's as well as holiday and election days? Long gone are the days of liquoring someone up and driving them over to the polling booths.

We're already acclimated to adding a liquor store stop to our errands so unless there's a benefit for locally owned grocery stores to get it, isn't this much ado over nothing?
At the Coors brewery tour they said that 3.2 (or less) beer was made during prohibition because it fell below the alcohol threshold so they could still operate during that period. Not surprising that it was the states in this part of the country and home of two breweries (Coors in Colorado and Anheuser-Busch in StL) that stayed open making that and other products. The 3.2 law stayed in effect in this part of the country because for the most part these were "dry states" for a long time after the repeal of prohibition, so it was a way to circumvent the existing laws.

In Missouri 3.2 beer is still classified as a "non-intoxicating beverage", the same terminology that Oklahoma used years ago. It has a different licensing and taxation structure. I know in the past 3.2 beer used to count in food sales and not alcohol sales which affects the licenses and taxing of restaurants and clubs.

As far as the "last liquor thread".....yeah right, liquor laws are a discussion everywhere no matter what kind of liquor laws. You have some people who will never be happy until you can buy it 24 hours anywhere and others who wish for the return of prohibition.

I sent an email to Paul Wesselhoft...I expect him to act swiftly so I will let you know once they pass...lol

If Homeland had been able to sell wine during the last Snowpocalypse, my truck wouldn't have gotten rear-ended while driving to the liquor store and added the necessity of an extra stop to the agenda.

It'll be interesting if these questions get to the ballot if for no other reason than to watch the ad campaigns against "demon likker" by the church(es).

ad campaigns against "demon likker" by the church(es).

That took me a while. I was reading it as "demon licker" not "demon liquor".

Better hope a "state of emergency" isn't declared...

Pophangover.com - How North Carolina Responds To Snow (http://pophangover.com/2010/12/28/how-north-carolina-responds-to-snow/)

We'll still have anachronistic liquor rules until ABLE is disbanded.

I wonder what ABLE is costing us, since we're supposed to be thinking of ways to cut spending.

Better hope a "state of emergency" isn't declared...

Pophangover.com - How North Carolina Responds To Snow (http://pophangover.com/2010/12/28/how-north-carolina-responds-to-snow/)

That si terrifying, indeed!

We'll still have anachronistic liquor rules until ABLE is disbanded.
Every state has their "alcohol control" agency, the TABC down here is a joke as well.

I wonder what ABLE is costing us, since we're supposed to be thinking of ways to cut spending.

Interestingly enough, looking at Fallin's proposed budget, she suggests splitting ABLE up. Putting their licensing duties under the Tax Commission and the investigative duties under the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs. Makes a lot of sense to me! ABLE's budget last year was $3,376,703.

That's actually a very good plan.

You can keep track of these bills and have them email you when anything changes!!

http://newlsb.lsb.state.ok.us/BasicSearchForm.aspx

Our new Governor is recommending that ABLE be folded in to the Bureau of Narcotics right? I wonder how that would affect this conversation?

Our new Governor is recommending that ABLE be folded in to the Bureau of Narcotics right? I wonder how that would affect this conversation?

only the investigation half ... the other half folded into the tax commision

Received a response from Oklahoma Representative Marian Cooksey....


Thank you for your e-mail regarding the modernizing of Oklahoma’s Alcohol Laws. I appreciate your input and will consider your views when given the opportunity to vote on legislation pertaining to alcohol laws for Oklahoma.

Rep. Marian Cooksey
HD 39

redrunner:

What do you think was meant by that? Reads like a non-positional form letter response.

... Reads like a non-positional form letter response.

More than many of the 149 would provide in response, but yeah, it's typical politico for 'thanks for writing.'

kevin, I agree, the only clue I see in it is the wording of "modernizing" the law (which to me might mean in favor of it).

I believe the word "modernizing" was taken from my subject line in the email I sent her. Doesn't seem like she's inferring a position on the topic.

I signed up for e-mail updates on these bills and haven't received any. Am I to assume that no significant action has been taken? I wrote every legislator in Oklahoma City, as I think we should have mutual interest in this matter, and heard back from about five of them, all positively.

I would like to see another thing added to this list of liquor law reform; Happy Hour!!

It is my understanding that liquor related "Happy Hour" specials are illegal in Ok.?

It is my understanding that liquor related "Happy Hour" specials are illegal in Ok.?

Quite a few bars are apparently unaware of this.

I was informed of this recently at a bar, when I asked why they no longer were offering their happy hour drink special. Bartender said the able commish had them end their happy hour because they were breaking the law.(Again this was for liquor and strong beer.)

I am sure someone on here knows what I am referring to, or maybe I was misinformed?

I think bars can have happy hours :drunk: but they cannot advertise them, advertise them outside of the bar anyway. I think that's how it goes...

Or it may be one of those situations where, yeah it's illegal but it's not enforced. Just like the good ol' "liquor by the wink:rolleyes::wink:" in the pre-early 80's period before liquor-by-the-drink became legal.

I've always heard that timed (i.e. happy hour) discounts were illegal aside from 3.2 beer. But, I know a few places that seem to do it anyway.

I emailed Ron Peters (ronpeters@okhouse.gov) today asking about the status of HJR1034. He replied with this,

"HJR 1034 is in Rules at this time. The Chairman of that Committee is Rep. Gary Banz. It this bill is not heard in committee by March 3rd the bill will die."

So turned around and emailed garybanz@okhouse.gov ask him when this will be heard. No response yet.

Thanks. I sent him an e-mail as well. Hopefully something will happen this legislative session. Too bad we don't have a lobby!

"the bill will die"

Unless of course, it's later resurrected and stuffed into another piece of legislation. It's been known to happen, but it doesn't always bear a lot of resemblance to the earlier version.

Emailed him as well