Well, today is my last full day in OKC for a long time. The weather was ridiculously awesome. My car said it was 75. So naturally I thought, you know what, I'm going to go out and enjoy this day (thinking how bitter cold it was in Canada and how it will be where I'm going).

So I grabbed my camera and tennis racket and headed downtown to first take a few pics.. I took the long way through the inner south side instead of the highway, and took lots of pics that I will share with you guys later. Some of them were shots I've been meaning to take for a long time. There are a lot more shots I've been meaning to take for a long time and couldn't today because I realized something about our city: it is absolutely, down-right dangerous to try and take pictures on some streets. It's not the lack of sidewalks alone. It's that, combined with big smokey old cars, combined with very heavy traffic volumes in some parts of town. The denser areas that have more people trying to cross the street (or take pictures in my case) usually tend to be the exact same areas of town with very high traffic counts. There were several that I just decided to give up on, which disappointed me.

Then I headed over to Jefferson Park, which has my favorite tennis courts in the entire city. Because they're actually play-able, and they have a backboard that is concrete and will actually bounce the ball back to you. No other city park has this to my knowledge (not even the city's pay-to-play tennis courts). Some city parks are lucky enough to have a wooden backboard with many holes in it that can be fun to try and keep the ball out of the holes...not so fun when you lose your ball in the holes however. So when I got to the park, I saw that every single court was already taken, including the court with backboards. So I was disappointed, even though the very nice people on the court with backboards offered to let me play with them, although I could tell the lady's husband was less thrilled, so I went away. I thought well maybe I could just find a park and sit and watch nature or people or something, but that's weird unless you're in central park. Didn't feel like being a bench weirdo..

Then I was thinking how much I'd love something fresh and healthy. I sat in my car wondering for a long time, going over different places in my head..and absolutely gave up. I didn't really want a frap from Beatnix. Coffee Slingers doesn't serve anything cold that's decent in my experience. And on and on, with all the other places. I thought how much I'd love a farmer's market. They have these during the off-seasons in bigger cities because there are still winter crops. And also most farmer's markets in Oklahoma are NOT authentic and sell the exact same stuff as the grocery store's produce section. So I realized there was no way I'd find a farmer's market. Another disappointment.

So here it is. 75 degrees outside. I spent the entire day inside my god damn SUV, which is a big pet peeve of mine, did absolutely nothing healthy or productive, and my dreams of spending a beautiful day outside was totally thwarted about the reality of what kind of place OKC really is. Nice people, crappy built environment, unsafe streets, decent weather, but absolutely pathetic green spaces, and virtually zero healthy eating options. That pretty much sums up my day.

And one thing nobody can say is that, "Spartan, you just don't know what's around, and what's available." I know this city better than practically anyone. I was thinking about how much time and effort I devote to promoting a healthy city, and I was wondering if I really am wasting my time. These are the thoughts I am leaving OKC with, so it will be fresh whenever I think back to OKC. I also often think about whether I will realistically settle down here in a place that I presently care so much about. If you could live anywhere in the world, would that place be OKC? How many of you could reasonably say that? I certainly suspect I will have the opportunity to live anywhere in the world once I wrap up my degree in environmental design, which is very near finished now. I even suspect that getting a job that supports myself in OKC will require more effort than it would in Portland or Seattle, which is certainly not the case for most professions. So will I realistically end up living here? After a day like today, I am certainly not compelled to go so far out of my way just to live here and keep paying taxes here.

I sense that I am drifting farther from this place, and while I can never predict what the future holds for me, or what the future holds for Oklahoma, I just don't realistically see me immediately coming back for good. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

I agree with all of your points but remember to keep in mind that OKC could use your help the most. If I could live anywhere it would be Seattle, but they are already on the right track. I would much rather stay here and make a difference. Sure, you would have to work much harder in OKC, but I think you would get much more satisfaction if you stuck around because OKC could use your help the most. In another year or so you will be able to sit outside at the Whole Foods cafe when you are looking for something healthy on a nice sunny day off.

Well, today is my last full day in OKC for a long time. The weather was ridiculously awesome. My car said it was 75. So naturally I thought, you know what, I'm going to go out and enjoy this day (thinking how bitter cold it was in Canada and how it will be where I'm going).

So I grabbed my camera and tennis racket and headed downtown to first take a few pics.. I took the long way through the inner south side instead of the highway, and took lots of pics that I will share with you guys later. Some of them were shots I've been meaning to take for a long time. There are a lot more shots I've been meaning to take for a long time and couldn't today because I realized something about our city: it is absolutely, down-right dangerous to try and take pictures on some streets. It's not the lack of sidewalks alone. It's that, combined with big smokey old cars, combined with very heavy traffic volumes in some parts of town. The denser areas that have more people trying to cross the street (or take pictures in my case) usually tend to be the exact same areas of town with very high traffic counts. There were several that I just decided to give up on, which disappointed me.

Then I headed over to Jefferson Park, which has my favorite tennis courts in the entire city. Because they're actually play-able, and they have a backboard that is concrete and will actually bounce the ball back to you. No other city park has this to my knowledge (not even the city's pay-to-play tennis courts). Some city parks are lucky enough to have a wooden backboard with many holes in it that can be fun to try and keep the ball out of the holes...not so fun when you lose your ball in the holes however. So when I got to the park, I saw that every single court was already taken, including the court with backboards. So I was disappointed, even though the very nice people on the court with backboards offered to let me play with them, although I could tell the lady's husband was less thrilled, so I went away. I thought well maybe I could just find a park and sit and watch nature or people or something, but that's weird unless you're in central park. Didn't feel like being a bench weirdo..

Then I was thinking how much I'd love something fresh and healthy. I sat in my car wondering for a long time, going over different places in my head..and absolutely gave up. I didn't really want a frap from Beatnix. Coffee Slingers doesn't serve anything cold that's decent in my experience. And on and on, with all the other places. I thought how much I'd love a farmer's market. They have these during the off-seasons in bigger cities because there are still winter crops. And also most farmer's markets in Oklahoma are NOT authentic and sell the exact same stuff as the grocery store's produce section. So I realized there was no way I'd find a farmer's market. Another disappointment.

So here it is. 75 degrees outside. I spent the entire day inside my god damn SUV, which is a big pet peeve of mine, did absolutely nothing healthy or productive, and my dreams of spending a beautiful day outside was totally thwarted about the reality of what kind of place OKC really is. Nice people, crappy built environment, unsafe streets, decent weather, but absolutely pathetic green spaces, and virtually zero healthy eating options. That pretty much sums up my day.

And one thing nobody can say is that, "Spartan, you just don't know what's around, and what's available." I know this city better than practically anyone. I was thinking about how much time and effort I devote to promoting a healthy city, and I was wondering if I really am wasting my time. These are the thoughts I am leaving OKC with, so it will be fresh whenever I think back to OKC. I also often think about whether I will realistically settle down here in a place that I presently care so much about. If you could live anywhere in the world, would that place be OKC? How many of you could reasonably say that? I certainly suspect I will have the opportunity to live anywhere in the world once I wrap up my degree in environmental design, which is very near finished now. I even suspect that getting a job that supports myself in OKC will require more effort than it would in Portland or Seattle, which is certainly not the case for most professions. So will I realistically end up living here? After a day like today, I am certainly not compelled to go so far out of my way just to live here and keep paying taxes here.

I sense that I am drifting farther from this place, and while I can never predict what the future holds for me, or what the future holds for Oklahoma, I just don't realistically see me immediately coming back for good. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

http://i40.tinypic.com/vxnbcp.jpg

I know I sure was.....this is lulz.....just be glad you're blessed to come and go as you please, and obviously have somewhere better to be, when OKC isn't doin it for ya

OKC certainly has a way to go but...

When I was in town this fall, I did a run around Lake Hefner and it was fantastic. For those not up for that, strolling along the path is a great people-watching opportunity and there are plenty of places to stop and sit on a bench, many with a nice view of the water. Or, rent a bike and cruise around. There are nice things to look at the whole circumference.

For the last two visits I've planned to rent a bike at the CHK boathouse (it's only $10 / day with helmet!) and ride the length of the OKC River Trail on one side, then come back on the other. Or perhaps head east to Grand Blvd. and take that all the way around until I reconnect up with the river trails. Haven't been able to fit it into my schedule but hope to next time. I'd also just love to ride a bike through Midtown, J-Park, etc.

Also on my last visit, I parked my car (free, on-street) near Maywood Park and took a long stroll through downtown, over to and around Bricktown, then over the bridge back into the Deep Deuce area, where I treated myself to a cold beer on the DD Grill patio. They had healthier options (virtually every restaurant has salads and lite fare) but I wanted a beer! The next day I came back and had lunch on the patio at The Wedge.

I also usually swim at least once while in town, and even in the winter months there are plenty of pools at inexpensive rates. (This is actually a plus to the relative disinterest in swimming around town, because I can always find an open lane.)

On one particularly warm winter visit, I spent hours walking around the zoo. I hadn't been in years and had forgotten about how fantastic it is.

Other trips I've played frisbee-golf at both Dolese Park and Will Rogers.

One of my favorite things to do is park north of Campus Corner in Norman and walk through the neighborhoods and campus all the way down to Loyd Noble then back up again. There are dozens and dozens of little gardens and fountains and new and newly-remodeled buildings to check out.


And I'd like to point out, most these things were not available when I moved away in 1990 and at the very least are vastly improved.

I'm an active person that strongly prefers to be outdoors but on every trip to OKC I manage to spend a lot of time outside doing something other than going to Sonic.

..[

well, today is my last full day in okc for a long time. The weather was ridiculously awesome. My car said it was 75. So naturally i thought, you know what, i'm going to go out and enjoy this day (thinking how bitter cold it was in canada and how it will be where i'm going).

So i grabbed my camera and tennis racket and headed downtown to first take a few pics.. I took the long way through the inner south side instead of the highway, and took lots of pics that i will share with you guys later. Some of them were shots i've been meaning to take for a long time. There are a lot more shots i've been meaning to take for a long time and couldn't today because i realized something about our city: It is absolutely, down-right dangerous to try and take pictures on some streets. It's not the lack of sidewalks alone. It's that, combined with big smokey old cars, combined with very heavy traffic volumes in some parts of town. The denser areas that have more people trying to cross the street (or take pictures in my case) usually tend to be the exact same areas of town with very high traffic counts. There were several that i just decided to give up on, which disappointed me.

Then i headed over to jefferson park, which has my favorite tennis courts in the entire city. Because they're actually play-able, and they have a backboard that is concrete and will actually bounce the ball back to you. No other city park has this to my knowledge (not even the city's pay-to-play tennis courts). Some city parks are lucky enough to have a wooden backboard with many holes in it that can be fun to try and keep the ball out of the holes...not so fun when you lose your ball in the holes however. So when i got to the park, i saw that every single court was already taken, including the court with backboards. So i was disappointed, even though the very nice people on the court with backboards offered to let me play with them, although i could tell the lady's husband was less thrilled, so i went away. I thought well maybe i could just find a park and sit and watch nature or people or something, but that's weird unless you're in central park. Didn't feel like being a bench weirdo..

Then i was thinking how much i'd love something fresh and healthy. I sat in my car wondering for a long time, going over different places in my head..and absolutely gave up. I didn't really want a frap from beatnix. Coffee slingers doesn't serve anything cold that's decent in my experience. And on and on, with all the other places. I thought how much i'd love a farmer's market. They have these during the off-seasons in bigger cities because there are still winter crops. And also most farmer's markets in oklahoma are not authentic and sell the exact same stuff as the grocery store's produce section. So i realized there was no way i'd find a farmer's market. Another disappointment.

So here it is. 75 degrees outside. I spent the entire day inside my god damn suv, which is a big pet peeve of mine, did absolutely nothing healthy or productive, and my dreams of spending a beautiful day outside was totally thwarted about the reality of what kind of place okc really is. Nice people, crappy built environment, unsafe streets, decent weather, but absolutely pathetic green spaces, and virtually zero healthy eating options. That pretty much sums up my day.

And one thing nobody can say is that, "spartan, you just don't know what's around, and what's available." i know this city better than practically anyone. I was thinking about how much time and effort i devote to promoting a healthy city, and i was wondering if i really am wasting my time. These are the thoughts i am leaving okc with, so it will be fresh whenever i think back to okc. I also often think about whether i will realistically settle down here in a place that i presently care so much about. If you could live anywhere in the world, would that place be okc? How many of you could reasonably say that? I certainly suspect i will have the opportunity to live anywhere in the world once i wrap up my degree in environmental design, which is very near finished now. I even suspect that getting a job that supports myself in okc will require more effort than it would in portland or seattle, which is certainly not the case for most professions. So will i realistically end up living here? After a day like today, i am certainly not compelled to go so far out of my way just to live here and keep paying taxes here.

I sense that i am drifting farther from this place, and while i can never predict what the future holds for me, or what the future holds for oklahoma, i just don't realistically see me immediately coming back for good. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
good riddance!

Then I headed over to Jefferson Park, which has my favorite tennis courts in the entire city. Because they're actually play-able, and they have a backboard that is concrete and will actually bounce the ball back to you. No other city park has this to my knowledge (not even the city's pay-to-play tennis courts)....

The nicest tennis court complex over here in yukon has a couple concrete backboards. Your right compared to that the wooden ones are barely above a backstop to collect balls.

I'm with Pete.

Will you still keep up with your DowntownontheRange blog? I really enjoy reading it. There are a lot of comparisons between Calgary and OKC and I hope you can continue to explore those similarities and differences, and what we can learn from more urban cities like Calgary.

BTW, I'm not trying to pick on Spartan. As much as I love OKC, there are times that I go back and feel a bit depressed because there is still so much to do.

I pointed this out after my trip last October: I do feel like OKC is starting to turn a corner in some ways. I used to be struck by all the empty/dead space surrounding downtown (and even in it) but with places like Plaza Court and Deep Deuce, it was the first time I felt like there were real urban neighborhoods starting to take shape.


Spartan, I think part of what you are experiencing is that living away for long period of times makes you feel much less connected to a place. And when that place was somewhere mainly associated with your youth, there is a natural tendency to want to "move on". That you've outgrown it somehow. Or at the very least, there is a big world out there and you already know this particular place almost too well.

It must be said that for anyone that really loves urban environments, OKC is going to rank very low on your list. Things are changing and I'm really starting to see signs of acceleration, but it's simply going to take some time.

Also, you can be an advocate and effect change for a community without living there. Sometimes I feel I do more for Oklahoma by spreading the good word about it here in California. And for the first time in a long time, I'd openly consider moving back. That option will always be open.

I'll add it is good for anyone to move away from their hometown for awhile and experience new places. The most close-minded people I know either have never moved away from their hometown and/or haven't traveled extensively. Enjoy Calgary and don't hesitate moving to Portland or Seattle, they are great places and there is much to learn living in the urban environments there. OKC will be very lucky if you continue advocate for the city while away, and especially if you finally return for good and are able to incorporate what you have learned.

I'm sort of in the same position since we're around the same age, so I definitely get what you're saying. To me it's a choice between picking up and moving somewhere where the amenities and neighborhoods I want already exist, or staying here in a place that is really an amazing environment for new ideas and positive change. So I sort of lean toward the romantic "frontier" idea of helping improve OKC. I think it will continue to be a dynamic time to live in this city.

Well, today is my last full day in OKC for a long time. The weather was ridiculously awesome. My car said it was 75. So naturally I thought, you know what, I'm going to go out and enjoy this day (thinking how bitter cold it was in Canada and how it will be where I'm going).

So I grabbed my camera and tennis racket and headed downtown to first take a few pics.. I took the long way through the inner south side instead of the highway, and took lots of pics that I will share with you guys later. Some of them were shots I've been meaning to take for a long time. There are a lot more shots I've been meaning to take for a long time and couldn't today because I realized something about our city: it is absolutely, down-right dangerous to try and take pictures on some streets. It's not the lack of sidewalks alone. It's that, combined with big smokey old cars, combined with very heavy traffic volumes in some parts of town. The denser areas that have more people trying to cross the street (or take pictures in my case) usually tend to be the exact same areas of town with very high traffic counts. There were several that I just decided to give up on, which disappointed me.

Then I headed over to Jefferson Park, which has my favorite tennis courts in the entire city. Because they're actually play-able, and they have a backboard that is concrete and will actually bounce the ball back to you. No other city park has this to my knowledge (not even the city's pay-to-play tennis courts). Some city parks are lucky enough to have a wooden backboard with many holes in it that can be fun to try and keep the ball out of the holes...not so fun when you lose your ball in the holes however. So when I got to the park, I saw that every single court was already taken, including the court with backboards. So I was disappointed, even though the very nice people on the court with backboards offered to let me play with them, although I could tell the lady's husband was less thrilled, so I went away. I thought well maybe I could just find a park and sit and watch nature or people or something, but that's weird unless you're in central park. Didn't feel like being a bench weirdo..

Then I was thinking how much I'd love something fresh and healthy. I sat in my car wondering for a long time, going over different places in my head..and absolutely gave up. I didn't really want a frap from Beatnix. Coffee Slingers doesn't serve anything cold that's decent in my experience. And on and on, with all the other places. I thought how much I'd love a farmer's market. They have these during the off-seasons in bigger cities because there are still winter crops. And also most farmer's markets in Oklahoma are NOT authentic and sell the exact same stuff as the grocery store's produce section. So I realized there was no way I'd find a farmer's market. Another disappointment.

So here it is. 75 degrees outside. I spent the entire day inside my god damn SUV, which is a big pet peeve of mine, did absolutely nothing healthy or productive, and my dreams of spending a beautiful day outside was totally thwarted about the reality of what kind of place OKC really is. Nice people, crappy built environment, unsafe streets, decent weather, but absolutely pathetic green spaces, and virtually zero healthy eating options. That pretty much sums up my day.

And one thing nobody can say is that, "Spartan, you just don't know what's around, and what's available." I know this city better than practically anyone. I was thinking about how much time and effort I devote to promoting a healthy city, and I was wondering if I really am wasting my time. These are the thoughts I am leaving OKC with, so it will be fresh whenever I think back to OKC. I also often think about whether I will realistically settle down here in a place that I presently care so much about. If you could live anywhere in the world, would that place be OKC? How many of you could reasonably say that? I certainly suspect I will have the opportunity to live anywhere in the world once I wrap up my degree in environmental design, which is very near finished now. I even suspect that getting a job that supports myself in OKC will require more effort than it would in Portland or Seattle, which is certainly not the case for most professions. So will I realistically end up living here? After a day like today, I am certainly not compelled to go so far out of my way just to live here and keep paying taxes here.

I sense that I am drifting farther from this place, and while I can never predict what the future holds for me, or what the future holds for Oklahoma, I just don't realistically see me immediately coming back for good. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Spartan, OKC is not for everyone. I haven't had a chance to respond to you PM, but I will say this. You care about OKC, and with you college background, coupled with the changing tides of our city, you have a chance to make a name for yourself here... Make history and leave behind a legacy. You could be an environmental leader in our community.

At the same time, you may not want to follow that path and know where you want to be. This is one of the few places in the world where you can live where you desire. I know we disagree on things, but one common place we all have on this board is that we want to see okc continue it's momentum forward.

You care about OKC, and with you college background, coupled with the changing tides of our city, you have a chance to make a name for yourself here... Make history and leave behind a legacy.

Agree 100%.

And what's more, you can do it in YOUR hometown. And there is far more opportunity to make a difference in OKC because it simply isn't where Portland or similar cities are.

I said this in another recent post but one of the best things OKC has going for it is local leadership (both private and government) that is passionate about the community, and also passionate about seeing it improve dramatically.

Sounds like you are down in the dump right now.

I like to go DT and run the parking garages. There are plenty of 'em and it's a great run. Then I go by the Skirvin or Harvey Sushi and have a drink.

I like to walk the alleys and meet people hanging out.

I work for The City, so I'm not moving anytime soon. But if I could......Chicago

I probably don't have much to add as what has already been said is spot on. I will say as someone who is probably about your age (mid 20's) I am kind of in a somewhat similar position. As I think about how my career is progressing and and what some of my future goals will be, I'm faced with the possibility that my next step will not be here in OKC. Its disappointing considering I work in the oil and gas industry and I should be a kid in the proverbial candy store here as far as opportunities are concerned. And there are a lot. But not necessarily want I want. And at the end of the day you will have to to figure out what you want out of life and make your life decisions based on that. If you've gone so far as leaving the country to study something you are passionate about you need to make that your goal, not staying in place XYZ. Now, I do like living in OKC, a lot more than I thought I would. But I recognize that it has shortcomings like most places. Like me you are young and there is a lot of the world to see. If anything, moving around will probably make you appreciate OKC and what it has to offer even more. Like they say absence makes the heart grow fonder.

I will say that this place in a lot of aspects is a really good place for young people because its small enough to get involved with the growth and development and has the right combination of a good economy and low cost of living (because living like a college kid after college is no fun!). Personally, if OKC were just a little bit "ahead" in its maturity as a vibrant urban city I would have no problem sacrificing a little piece of my career to make a life here permanently. And if maybe I was a little older or more settled down I wouldn't mind waiting around for it to reach its full potential. But youth is a valuable thing and something that you can't just fritter away waiting for something, so I will have to make plans independent of the assumption I will be staying here and let the chips fall where they may. I would suggest you consider doing the same. You will probably be pleasantly surprised at the results . And who knows those results might have you staying right here!

http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/ams-usa-population.png

Not sure this is relevant, but I just ran across this. This is actually from 1990.

http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/2008/09/07/us-population-density-1990-and-2000/

Stay warm where you're going and once you return, when the day-um, what to do today hits you, remember three little words ... Lake Stanley Draper.
Whether you wanna photog it, boat it, kayak it, 3 wheel it, horsey it, corpse hunt it, hike it, bike it, picnic it, or some combination of the above, you can make a day of it.

Good luck to you, Spartan, in your next phase of life. With any luck, you'll find a place that better suits what you want and what you believe is most important. OKC is not for everyone and there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something different.

About all I can say is that it wasn't until I left OKC that I realized that there were a number of very significant things about it that I was so accustomed to that I didn't even think of them until I went to other places that didn't offer them. That may not be your experience but it was mine. No question, OKC lacks good sidewalks and a lot of things that are very important to you, right now. And I know you aren't just being negative to be negative - you've spent time thinking about the kind of city you'd like to live in. My personal experience, for what it is worth, which might not be much, is that there are a lot of things that are so taken for granted that we DON'T consider or think about until they are gone or we are gone. For your happiness, I hope the sorts of things you've overlooked in OKC turn out to be insignificant so that you find happiness when you go to a different kind of city.

I'm older than you and know that makes a difference in how I look at things. However, as I read your post, it struck me at how hard you work to entertain yourself. I mean, that all sounded like so much work, to me. I also enjoyed the day - it was gorgeous, wasn't it? But for me, I got up early, went to the market then took a walk in the neighborhood (no sidewalks but quiet streets). I saw bluebirds light in a tree we just planted and got some good pictures. I was thrilled that they were bluebirds. Took my husband to the doctor and we had the windows down, no trouble getting a parking space, parked further away than we needed to because the weather was so nice and we wanted to walk. Everything went so smoothly. The doctor saw us on time, the lab people AND the radiology folks were happy, laughing and got us out in record time. Same with the pharmacy. I called the pharmacy ahead of time and they checked to see if they had what we needed while I waited on the phone so I wouldn't waste a trip. Turns out I needed to check with the doctor to see if something could be changed and she walked me through it. So did the doctor's office.

We'd left the Baptist hospital area in less than 2 hours and managed to get prescriptions filled, catch a late lunch/early dinner and be home before 4:30 -still with time left to sit on the patio and have a drink without needing to wear a coat. Played with the dogs, checked my e-mail, enjoyed the sunset. It was a peaceful, happy, productive, wonderful day that was just incredible for January.

To me, that's the sort of thing OKC offers that you can't get in so many other places. And it may not be important to some, but the climate, the lack of traffic, the friendly, helpful people - all those things ease the stress in my life so that I have the time and patience to get excited about bluebirds lighting in a new tree we just planted. Of course, what I am comparing OKC to is life near Washington DC and, to an extent, NYC. Most urban places aren't that congested, crowded or have such wretched weather so the wonderful things OKC has to offer that they don't are more blatant. I think going to a midsized city would be a lot of fun and expect they have many ideas OKC could adopt and probably even be able to compete with OKC for friendliness, low traffic and maybe even weather. But after a day like today, better weather is hard to imagine.

All the best. It sounds like a very exciting time coming up in your life and I hope you enjoy it to the hilt. We all look forward to you keeping in touch.

Spartan, go and discover what's possible. Then come back and kick butt.
;)

I agree with all of your points but remember to keep in mind that OKC could use your help the most.

Thank you very much lep, but I doubt it. It would be a bad blow for OKC if Steve Lackmeyer got a job with a better newspaper, or if Jeff Bezdek decided on one of his research trips to Portland to not come back. It would be a blow if Pete decided to stop caring about his distant hometown. It would be a blow if Marva or Steve Mason decided OKC is not where it's at. These are people making a difference x 100 to what I could hope to achieve.

Great Thunder game tonight, that was a lot of fun. I'm not saying I take back my comments, because those are comments I've been thinking about for a while..especially when people ask me what I'm going to do after college. The polite response has always been to tell people that it's going to be OKC for me, but it's kind of like declaring for the architectural draft, or staying in your hometown.

At the game tonight it hit me that in spite of Oklahoma's incredible and varied outdoors climate, OKC is an indoors city. It's much more of an indoors city than Calgary, where it's normally below freezing but people get out anyway because that's where humans belong! I believe so firmly that humans do not believe indoors, and that's just a philosophical difference between me and..OKC.

I know this can kind of be a sound tunnel at times, but there are two thoughts I kind of want to provoke and stir some thought on:

1. Quality of life. What does it mean, how does it relate to OKC? QoL is my huge issue. To me, OKC is just not a good human-oriented city. Humans were meant to walk around, not meant to sit in steel boxes in front of color-coded lights, to me that is a bleak vision of the future that we are currently living in. Steve L goes on the attack pretty often, with the utility crate on 2nd St., or the illegal signs, or the overzealous local weathermen, etc.My pet peeve is obviously tennis courts, and personally if I had the influence, I would do a Steve-type attack on OKC Parks & Rec and wage a full war on the current piss poor state of tennis in this city. I'd form a Jeff Bezdek-like committee that goes to other cities and details the state of tennis courts in other cities, just to prove beyond a doubt to everyone else that OKC has by far the worst parks in the entire nation. I have been to a number of very small cities that have much better parks than OKC. Including Lawton..seriously. Lawton has better parks than OKC. Don't even get me started on how much better Tulsa's parks are, and I know that would really annoy some people, as it should.

2. Making a difference. Here in OKC we are blessed with various crazy local agitators who don't understand how to make the most of their say. Such as Steve Hunt, or the woman who went on a City Hall rant about people with English accents. So does someone in OKC really make a difference by being vocal, talking to people, showing up at meetings, etc.? Or do they contribute to the Steve Hunt & Co. spectacle? I would honestly say someone who lives in Portland and works for a consulting firm can make more of a difference in OKC than one of our own, and that's just the way this city is being ran. It's going to be interesting to see how the streetcar project goes, whether AA or the subcommittee consultants (who have demonstrated their unfamiliarity with OKC) get their way. Consultants are respected by the city council, the mayor, and the chamber. Then the closer ties you have to the power structure, the more ignored you are. It's something very interesting I've noticed.

So to summarize, are we serious about QoL in OKC, and do OKC residents or consultants have more of a say here?

Will you still keep up with your DowntownontheRange blog? I really enjoy reading it. There are a lot of comparisons between Calgary and OKC and I hope you can continue to explore those similarities and differences, and what we can learn from more urban cities like Calgary.

Yeah, of course..got a few PMs and emails, and that's definitely going to keep going. It'll probably start to have more of a Euro focus, than a Canadien [sic] focus. I actually still have about 3 posts I still need to finish up..

BG (and other fellow arch students), here's something you can think of: What is a European city with similarities to OKC that we can learn from? If people can think of it, I'll do some coverage.

___________

And my recent disappointment has nothing to do with downtown or urban improvements. I'm not concerned about that. I know with absolute certainty that OKC will be an impressive urban city, at least as good as Denver or Austin, soon enough. What I'm concerned with about Oklahoma is the focus on sustainability and the ability to enjoy a beautiful day. If I can't make the world my oyster on a beautiful day like today then all hope is lost. I'd rather have usable tennis courts than an Urban Outfitters at this point, not that UO wouldn't be cool.

Spartan, I'm going to take a rather pollyanna-ish approach and say quality of life is far more an internal than external thing and that participating in change can be as much fun, or more rewarding, than experiencing improved circumstances someone else worked for in the past. If you can find a job that's satisfying to you, you can be happy here. If you can't, then maybe another city will be better for you. Every city has its Steve Hunts and accent lady. However, if you're not one of the people sitting in on a city council meeting, you don't know they're there. This is a little-er pond and so perhaps it's easier to be a big fish, if that is ultimately important to you. Once you're married and have kids, if that's in your future, you may find like we did that Oklahoma City has more to do than you have time in which to do it. Anyway, best of luck to you regardless.

Thank you very much lep, but I doubt it. It would be a bad blow for OKC if Steve Lackmeyer got a job with a better newspaper

You're quite kind. And since you said this, let me share a story of another young man, in college, torn over his future. He too looked around at Oklahoma City and saw a city that he loved, and yet, at the same time, saw nothing but disappointment around him. Indeed, many of his high school friends had already left the state. Imagine his excitement at being offered a summer job in New York, doing what he had always dreamed of.
I was that kid. I had a shot at being a reporter in the greatest news market in the country (Washington, D.C. only rules in political journalism - New York has EVERYTHING). It's not as if New York were a foreign land - I lived there until my family moved here in 1977. But my heart was in OKC. In 1989 the town seemed doomed. But I couldn't give up on it. I can't explain why. In New York I realized that the world can be cruel, that rules are at best a concept, and that you've got to BREAK A LOT OF RULES to get ahead. I didn't want that life for myself. And if I were ever to have a family, would I really want my kids to be raised in that sort of murky ethical haze? I came back after one miserable summer, graduated from college and stuck it out.
I'm not telling you to come back. But if you think I matter, consider just how close I came to making the same call.
Now excuse me please ... it's almost midnight and I need to go out and plant one thousand 5320 yard signs on Tim Berney's lawn.
(JUST KIDDING!)

Spartan, you don't know me and I don't know you, but I have always read your posts with great interest and have visited your blog often. (you and I actually had an anonymous exchange about St. Louis once). I'm not going to spend time reiterating what others have said, but just know this: you have, in my opinion, always had among the most thoughtful and accurate things to say about OKC. If you distance yourself from these sites, I will miss reading what you have to say. But it's your time to go into the world and do whatever makes you happy. I would plead for you to come back to OKC, but that would be hypocritical because I am an ex-pat myself. Just know that people you have never met have still followed your musings, and you have contributed to the advancement of our town. If you ever find yourself in St. Louis, let's grab a beer and pontificate. Be well.

Stay warm where you're going and once you return, when the day-um, what to do today hits you, remember three little words ... Lake Stanley Draper.
Whether you wanna photog it, boat it, kayak it, 3 wheel it, horsey it, corpse hunt it, hike it, bike it, picnic it, or some combination of the above, you can make a day of it.

Is it good for any of that right now (other than the "corpse hunt")? Isn't Stanley Draper under repairs and they have lowered the water level substantially? t least that is what I remember seeing on the Cityview cable channel all the time.

Steve, why stop at a thousand? Make it 5,320 of them.

Spartan, don't take offense to my post, absolutely none is intended. You come off to me as an extremely dedicated, and passionate person. But also someone who seems to use a lot of emotion in their thoughts. Not that that is a bad thing, but it can lead to impulse decisions. I would really hate for OKC to lose you over that. If you really did love OKC, you probably wouldn't abandon it. See where I am going?

At times I see myself thinking the same thing, it seems for each step forward the city takes, we take a leap backwards. Other times, I am in awe at how fast our city is advancing. We are a very young city, you have the opportunity of your life laying before you. OKC needs you, you have vision and determination. You have pride and passion -- not many like you, not in this city. You can be a very small fish in a very large pond in a larger city that has already made the steps you could be making in OKC today. We are 100 years behind most cities, in many cases more than that. Our state was established barely a hundred years ago.

But at the end of the day, it's up to you. Is OKC really for you? I can't decide that, Steve can't decide that....your mother can't decide that. It's up to you, and I would be hard-pressed to fault you for making a decision to leave OKC. I wish you much luck, and with your attributes, you will no doubt be successful no matter where you end up.

-Matt

Very kind comments indeed! Thanks Nick. Steve, as someone who intimately knows about illegal signs, it's easier to go put them in his yard then take them out! Lol

Spartan, my advice is to follow your heart and your gut. I moved here 11 years ago to escape monotony. I felt trapped in Texas. I found the momentum and possibilities intoxicating. I remember debating with myself about whether I wanted to live somewhere that "was built" or be part of "building it". I'm proud of what has happened and the seeds that have been planted.

I would be willing to move. But I can't. The tethers of life tie you down. Relationships, friends, finances, and jobs start to weigh down your choices. Take pride in what you have fought for. Particularly sticking to your principals.

But go "live it up". Live where you feel at peace and that offers you the quality of life that you desire. Relish your 20's and put the public service time in later.

I, too, lament Oklahoma City's struggle to create meaningful places and spaces. Someone once said that real artists can find inspiration anywhere, even close to home. It's hard to find those inspiring places driving in a car, but believe me...they are there. The small neighborhood park with a few kids playing, the sunset west of Lake Hefner, taking a stroll through the Paseo Arts District, sharing a soda with a friend at POPS, high-fiving a complete stranger at a Thunder game...and the best is yet to come.

Nick, I'm glad that you posted what you did. Good-byes are good to make though many don't ever make them and just "go." You are still quite young so your future may land you in places that you don't even presently imagine, maybe even here in Oklahoma City, and I'm sure that you are on the precipice of a great adventure. Your future is well ahead of you, and I hope that it is all good, and I wish you my very best. Find a girl that you love happily ever after, have some kids, and have a great life. And come back to visit when you feel so inclined. If you do, you'll probably find that Steve Hunt and Sally Kern still live here ... but, hey, who can say?

I also thank you for what you have done here and by "here" I mean not only this forum but your own earlier one, and elsewhere on the internet. You have done much to promote the city. I know of none as young as you who have made a greater contribution to the city. I will miss hearing your thoughts.

God bless and fare thee well.

Is it good for any of that right now (other than the "corpse hunt")? Isn't Stanley Draper under repairs and they have lowered the water level substantially? t least that is what I remember seeing on the Cityview cable channel all the time.

While it's not near on as purty as spring and summer, and it's not perfect, but their is a nice upside ... way fewer drunks and punks out and about in the off season.

Spartan, we will miss your presence here for the time being, but hopefully not on this board. You bring a valuable perspective and legit opinions along with some educated skills.

As for this city, I must say it grows on you. Over the years the companies I have been associated with have recruited quite a few high level employees and moved them to OKC. Many from places like Toronto, Chicago, and a number of eastern cities. Usually there has been a progression...year one, they hate it; year two, they believe it is just okay here, and by years three or four they don't want to leave and go back home.

What makes this city great is its totality. Its foundation is the people, not the buildings or streets. And while that sounds cliche, it is absolutely true. Oh, there are friendly people everywhere, but OKC is a special place. There are certainly cities with bigger and more buildings, and streets in better repair, and more people jogging, and with beautiful mountains surrounding and, and, and,.... However, OKC is still a wonderful place to be.

I may be crazy, but I have spent my entire adult life after moving to Norman to go to school, living in Tulsa or (mostly) OKC. I have spent the last 35 years working in virtually every medium to large city in the US, and have worked and traveled in most of the great cities of the world, in about 35 different countries. I have had the opportunity to move to some other great cities. And each time I wind up choosing OKC.

I am in the midst of getting two companies formed in OKC whose owners are from Los Angeles and Chicago. They were hands down in favor of estabilshing OKC as our world headquarters. Other people get it.

That said, we should strive to make our city more livable for the great people who occupy it. In that regard, I sincerely hope you come back home and help make a real difference and help keep improving our professional populace. We need creative young thinkers who bring us workable ideas. We need a little idealism. We need to keep growing and you can help us. If you need to live elsewhere and experience different things, that will do nothing but add to the portfolio you bring back home. Go do it, but come on back. We need people like you.

OKC would be better if it weren't run by the Chamber of Commerce.

Yeah. God knows those 550 Boeing employees will destroy this town. And Whole Foods will destroy the I-44 and Western Avenue area.

Yeah. God knows those 550 Boeing employees will destroy this town. And Whole Foods will destroy the I-44 and Western Avenue area.

You guys in the media give the Chamber way too much credit. One of the two programs Boeing is moving here already had major operations in OKC and had for over a decade; that is why it ultimately made sense to move here. By your own reports and through company press releases they made the decision to move even before they had approached the chamber to negotiate incentives. In the case of Whole Foods, they had been looking for a location in OKC for some time. That isn't to say that Chesapeake or the Chamber didn't have some influence with them, especially when it comes to location. But I think what is portrayed in the media is, to be kind, wildly over-stated.

Spartan it's your life, the decision is yours. If you are posting here clearly you are seeking feedback, so I'll give mine. OKC is a good place if you are a bit older and have a family. It's almost perfectly setup for that scenario. If you are a bit younger and single, and have a lot of money, it is also a great place to live as you can buy a lot of land, put a huge house on it, and basically have your own park or tennis court or whatever it is that floats your boat. If you are young and single it really isn't that great of a place to live. It has gotten better, but it still has a long, long ways to go. The population of post-college young professionals is just dismally low here. Go to any bar after work during a traditional happy hour or join a young professionals group and you will see that is apparent. It's just not a good place to look for a significant other based on sheer numbers alone. The city is slowly warming up to Gen X and Y matters, but not quickly enough. The configuration of our cities and how businesses are laid out, a lack of viable downtown housing for the younger folks, the slow innovation in our restaurant culture when the younger generation is all about trying out new things (how sad that we only got our first tapas restaurant a few years ago after about a decade of popularity in other places), and a lack of high-quality businesses of just about any genre would scare any Gen Yer away.

But the thing is, all of the above could be changed if more Gen Yers just decided to stick around. At some point, the demographic becomes so strong businesses cannot continue to ignore their needs, especially when that group in the next few years will have the largest amount of disposable income available to them of any other group. Sticking around would be hard though, and it might mean giving up your own desires and making the place a better city for the next generation to come. You might effect change, but it might come too late for you, for your current life stage. But then you'll probably be in a place where OKC is a pretty good fit for where you are at. In the meantime, where OKC might lack in its partying ability there is certainly a vacuum that dearly needs to be filled with young leaders who have fresh ideas for this city, or for their personal businesses.

So really it sort of boils down to how you want to spend your 20s. Who is Spartan, and how does he want to spend the early years of his life?

Spartan, as I read your post I couldn't help but think "unfulfilled expectations". I'm left wondering how your day would have played out had it not been for those people playing tennis....if you had actually been able to get in a good workout because you never mentioned that. I had a good friend that told me, "When you have unfulfilled expectations and you're bummed out about them, simply change your expectations." I've used that plenty in my life.

It's a well known fact that exercising produces endorphins and we get addicted to them....when we don't get the rush we want, we're disappointed.

I know, I know....your post is not based on one day and you've been feeling this way for awhile.....just thought I'd put it out there.

Anyways, everyone needs a change in life. Hell even the best of friends have to take a break from time to time. Ever had a best friend that you absolutely wanted to strangle then a few weeks later, you can't get enough of hanging out with them? Well...the same can be said for cities.

Try to remember the good times and let the bad times go. It sometimes seems inauthentic but how are negative emotions more authentic than positive emotions? They aren't.

OKC has really progressed and I for one love the changes we've been making. I live in far N OKC and didn't realize what a gem the myriad gardens are until I worked downtown. I started eating lunch in the park and on weekends would drive down there to hang out and watch people and nature. It was awesome and I can't wait until all the construction is finished and we can once again enjoy this park.

Good luck on your journey and try not to be too harsh when you speak of OKC. Remember, there's no value in bashing the city except to reinforce your disappointments. Move on with your life and let go of your disappointments with OKC. If your journey brings you around these parts again....awesome.....we'll welcome you back. If not, well I hope you find a place that is more to your liking.

As with family, he probably will defend OKC to outsiders more than any one (but can talk freely about us, amongst ourselves). "I can say anything about my Mother because she is MY Mother, but don't you dare say anything bad" type of thing.

I'm not worried in the least that Spartan will be anything less than the proudest ambassador for Oklahoma City.

Spartan it's your life, the decision is yours. If you are posting here clearly you are seeking feedback, so I'll give mine. OKC is a good place if you are a bit older and have a family. It's almost perfectly setup for that scenario. If you are a bit younger and single, and have a lot of money, it is also a great place to live as you can buy a lot of land, put a huge house on it, and basically have your own park or tennis court or whatever it is that floats your boat. If you are young and single it really isn't that great of a place to live. It has gotten better, but it still has a long, long ways to go. The population of post-college young professionals is just dismally low here. Go to any bar after work during a traditional happy hour or join a young professionals group and you will see that is apparent. It's just not a good place to look for a significant other based on sheer numbers alone. The city is slowly warming up to Gen X and Y matters, but not quickly enough. The configuration of our cities and how businesses are laid out, a lack of viable downtown housing for the younger folks, the slow innovation in our restaurant culture when the younger generation is all about trying out new things (how sad that we only got our first tapas restaurant a few years ago after about a decade of popularity in other places), and a lack of high-quality businesses of just about any genre would scare any Gen Yer away.

But the thing is, all of the above could be changed if more Gen Yers just decided to stick around. At some point, the demographic becomes so strong businesses cannot continue to ignore their needs, especially when that group in the next few years will have the largest amount of disposable income available to them of any other group. Sticking around would be hard though, and it might mean giving up your own desires and making the place a better city for the next generation to come. You might effect change, but it might come too late for you, for your current life stage. But then you'll probably be in a place where OKC is a pretty good fit for where you are at. In the meantime, where OKC might lack in its partying ability there is certainly a vacuum that dearly needs to be filled with young leaders who have fresh ideas for this city, or for their personal businesses.

So really it sort of boils down to how you want to spend your 20s. Who is Spartan, and how does he want to spend the early years of his life?

My concern is that many people in OKC spend too much time telling Gen X and Y that they would do better in other cities rather than encourage them to stick around and make their mark in our local culture. The professors at UCO did it when I went to college their, teachers in high school did it, and even their peers encouraged them to move to Dallas or DC or wherever.

Let's say that over a span of five years, 10,000 young professionals left for other cities. Imagine if they were encouraged to stay and create businesses of their own. That would be 10,000 more individuals that would be ganging out at local establishments after hours, 10,000 more votes for thing like maps and selling wine in grocery stores, 10,000 more customers at Whole Foods or Crest Fresh Market. The climate is better today in OKC for such people to make that decision on their own. But it certainly would help if so many people in our city weren't so self deprecating.

OKC Pulse, I share your concern. In the 1980s it seemed as if the city's educators were determined to see ALL their best students go elsewhere. That was the vibe at least.

It is so sad to lose a lot of really good people in their twenties and early thirties. Many would stay if we had a proud culture instead of one that was constantly poor mouthing ourselves - and I speak of the universities and a lot of us folks on the street. It is a perception problem, IMO. I heard the same sort of "Oklahoma is just a rednek, boring, backwater, stupidass state" growing up and even though the city has made amazing - just amazing - progress, you still hear the same old stuff. Improvements that make my jaw drop at the progress are dismissed as insignificant or not enough by a lot of the young who just don't realize how incredible it is to have come this far, this fast. Oh well. I'm so damned proud of this city I could explode. And I tell that to anyone I can hold down. Maybe in a few years, we'll have reached a point where more of our young people stay. We are fortunate that so many come back.

I feel that I can definitely relate to you, Spartan. In my situation, however, I'm a few years out now. I left 5 years ago to live in Los Angeles and Orlando. Here's my take:

My work in theme parks has led me to consult for a few cities in the past couple of years. I mainly worked with cities that were successful to an extent, but couldn't seem to find the "shine". Always, ALWAYS it would remind me of OKC. I had a lot of time to think and compare and figure out just what it was that I, personally, disliked and felt that if I had the voice or chance, that I could improve.

The cities that I consulted with would always hire me to get a piece of Disney's "successful magic" into their processes. They always thought that there was some magic formula, a simple fix that they could implement to create a communal consonance. They spend all of their resources comparing themselves to other cities and coming up with numerous solutions as to why they were not successful. The debate process itself was part of the problem. As designers, I think we subconsciously recognize that this problem is abundant in OKC, but most can't put their finger on it. I sure didn't, until I educated myself from the outside.

Oklahoma City is a terribly incestual bubble. Now before I get "flamed", I don't mean this as an insult in any way. What I am saying is that it's incestuous in attitude for the sole reason that OKC people are desperately trying to shape, form, and protect a "OKC culture". For the longest time, OKC has not had a defined voice amongst other US cities, but it is trying.

And here lies OKC's #1 problem: in an effort to define the city as "purely OKC", most community planners and leaders in the city are looking to other cities for influence and precedence. The oxymoron is that in an attempt to make OKC individual, they have made a patchwork of the ideas and methods used in other cities. Thus, it doesn't have a voice at all!

Oklahoma has the population, resources, and potential to grow. The only way it can IMPROVE is if city planners and designers can ask the question: "What is the purpose and function of a city, and how can we re-define that definition using our own original resources."

Every successful design has that thought process at its heart and until OKC can think like that, well... it'll be the OKC that we know.

Canals, streetcars, curves, and towers are all very cool, but without being original or the right fit for a particular place, it ends up looking like a coffee table book of US vernacular.

I love OKC as much as the next person here, but boy does that city need an intervention...

Hmm, well Rome wasn't built in a day. OKC today is immensely better than 15-20 years ago. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and that's my point...I started my career living in a smallish city in the deep South. I hated it. There are dozens upon dozens of places like it across the country. Moving back here 13 years ago and being a part of what's happening now is incredible. Go live in a crap place for awhile then come back and see how it changes your outlook.

Hmm, well Rome wasn't built in a day. OKC today is immensely better than 15-20 years ago. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and that's my point...I started my career living in a smallish city in the deep South. I hated it. There are dozens upon dozens of places like it across the country. Moving back here 13 years ago and being a part of what's happening now is incredible. Go live in a crap place for awhile then come back and see how it changes your outlook.

It seems like Taggart was simply saying Oklahoma City needs more originality and organic growth. I don't think he was implying it hasn't come a long way from 20 years ago.

I wasn't replying to taggart...mainly responding to the whiners and critics...it's so much easier to criticize than come up with something constructive.

I understand what you're saying, Taggart, but one of the problems with Oklahoma City is that it is geographically about as uninteresting as you can get. It's flat, it has no mountains, no oceans, no bluffs. It has a river, but that river wasn't even a river when we started trying to remake ourselves. Since it is ridiculous to think of terraforming to improve our city, we have to make do with what we have. The second problem is that we're young. We don't have a couple of centuries of growth and change to create a unique flavor. We have our western and Native American heritage, but if you overdo that, you do end up being a pseudo-Disneyworld. I think the Native American Cultural Center will be just about enough emphasis on Native American culture and if we can create another entertainment district in the Stockyards, which I would like to see, that will be enough western heritage. Every tower is unique, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying the creation of unique structures. Oklahoma City had streetcars, and one of the more extensive streetcar networks before we were foolish enough to dismantle it. So, going back to streetcars and looking at original routes when doing so is a way of reconnecting with our past, not an attempt to copy what other cities are doing. Although the canal is not original, it's interesting and I must confess I enjoy it when I see it. It's enabled us to create a unique and appealing part of Oklahoma City in Bricktown.

I think we're doing fine. Obviously I would like change to be instantaneous, but that's precisely when it develops a flavor of artificiality. Every city in the world was once young, and what makes them original is growth by layers, over years. We'll make mistakes, but some things will endure and in the end, they will be what defines us.

Gotcha, sorry; definitely agree that it takes more effort to say something positive.

There are areas that have more things to praise than criticize, perhaps somewhere like Spartan is going. It all depends on one's perspective though.

I don't think there is a need to create an OKC culture or identity. We already have one...a western city built on oil, manufacturing, and agriculture. What we want to be is a modern city with great amenities. Look around, isn't that what we've been doing the past 20 years?

People are being way too impatient. The expectations of some are incredibly unrealistic. Yet, go talk to people in other cities and they wish their city was doing some of the things we are.

My concern is that many people in OKC spend too much time telling Gen X and Y that they would do better in other cities rather than encourage them to stick around and make their mark in our local culture. The professors at UCO did it when I went to college their, teachers in high school did it, and even their peers encouraged them to move to Dallas or DC or wherever.

Let's say that over a span of five years, 10,000 young professionals left for other cities. Imagine if they were encouraged to stay and create businesses of their own. That would be 10,000 more individuals that would be ganging out at local establishments after hours, 10,000 more votes for thing like maps and selling wine in grocery stores, 10,000 more customers at Whole Foods or Crest Fresh Market. The climate is better today in OKC for such people to make that decision on their own. But it certainly would help if so many people in our city weren't so self deprecating.
I can tell you from first hand experience this is changing.

I attended UCO for the first time in the late 80s, early 90s and you're correct.....many if not most of the professors were telling the students they should plan on moving to get the good paying jobs. Back then it was known as the "brain drain" and unfortunately it was true. There were just soo many opportunities in other cities that it didn't make financial sense to stay here....at least for many people it didn't.

However, I went back for a second degree in 2004 and was surprised to hear the dialogue has changed. Many professors were talking about the big companies, government and medical jobs that are available here now. These jobs were either scarce before or simply didn't pay very well.

Companies like Chesapeake and Devon have had to attract talent from other markets and are more willing to pay higher salaries than many companies in OKC. This has helped to raise the salary for everyone because local companies that want to attract the talent from those big companies will have to pay more. They're also recruiting on the local campuses more. Unfortunately we need to up our education standards also.

UCO's Computer Science department has changed radically over the last 10 years. They previously had local professors that held an iron grip over the department and simply wouldn't change. Now we have newer, younger professors that come from places like China, Hong Kong and other countries and they're raising the standards. Now for beginning and programming 1 students, they are required to take a lab with the regular course work. This is LONG overdue but better late than never.

UCO's CS major has also become ABET accredited which imposes standards and helps to drive adherence to standards that are established for all ABET accredited schools. In technical degrees, this is a VERY valuable accreditation and will make the graduates better able to compete in the market place. I couldn't be more thrilled to see this. The sector I see most lacking in OKC is high tech and I'm extremely hopeful that this will help drive some new, high-tech companies to consider either relocating here or opening up shop here.

As with family, he probably will defend OKC to outsiders more than any one (but can talk freely about us, amongst ourselves). "I can say anything about my Mother because she is MY Mother, but don't you dare say anything bad" type of thing.
Good point

I
Oklahoma City is a terribly incestual bubble. Now before I get "flamed", I don't mean this as an insult in any way. What I am saying is that it's incestuous in attitude for the sole reason that OKC people are desperately trying to shape, form, and protect a "OKC culture". For the longest time, OKC has not had a defined voice amongst other US cities, but it is trying.

And here lies OKC's #1 problem: in an effort to define the city as "purely OKC", most community planners and leaders in the city are looking to other cities for influence and precedence. The oxymoron is that in an attempt to make OKC individual, they have made a patchwork of the ideas and methods used in other cities. Thus, it doesn't have a voice at all!
One could easily make the argument that everything has been done already so we simply need to look to other cities and adapt. I mean canals aren't new to cities, neither are arenas, high rise and/or loft apartment living spaces, neither are theme parks. Why "reinvent the wheel"? As the saying goes, "Good engineers invent, great engineers steal."

OKC does have a culture and I don't agree that it's incestuous. Many people think that bigger is better and anything other than full throttle growth is bad. I don't agree.

OKC has changed radically over the last 15-20 years and it will continue to do so. I for one applaud out style of living and look forward to the future.

My concern is that many people in OKC spend too much time telling Gen X and Y that they would do better in other cities rather than encourage them to stick around and make their mark in our local culture. The professors at UCO did it when I went to college their, teachers in high school did it, and even their peers encouraged them to move to Dallas or DC or wherever.

Let's say that over a span of five years, 10,000 young professionals left for other cities. Imagine if they were encouraged to stay and create businesses of their own. That would be 10,000 more individuals that would be ganging out at local establishments after hours, 10,000 more votes for thing like maps and selling wine in grocery stores, 10,000 more customers at Whole Foods or Crest Fresh Market. The climate is better today in OKC for such people to make that decision on their own. But it certainly would help if so many people in our city weren't so self deprecating.

I personally think it's better for people to live in multiple places, preferably different regions of the U.S. and even a foreign country, before settling somewhere. The people I know that have done this are much more cultured and intelligent than those that were born, grew up, went to college, and then settled in the same place. I'm not saying everyone is like that, but that's my personal experience. And I do know people who have done that and are very open-minded, cultured, etc. but they also traveled extensively especially abroad.

In my opinion, Oklahoma needs more people from other states and other countries and not more of our own staying here. There are plenty already that do, and there needs to be a good number that stay but that needs to be balanced evenly with transplants bringing new ideas to the state. Except for the energy and aerospace industries, and things like higher education (especially OU and OSU) and the military, there aren't many other sectors that are attracting talent outside of the state to Oklahoma which is what we need.

I don't think there is a need to create an OKC culture or identity. We already have one...a western city built on oil, manufacturing, and agriculture. What we want to be is a modern city with great amenities. Look around, isn't that what we've been doing the past 20 years?

Yet, go talk to people in other cities and they wish their city was doing some of the things we are.

For anything to be a success it has to have its own identity. In the same breath, people will say we're just as good as Dallas, Nashville, Austin, or Seattle, yet describe OKC in generalized terms like "A western city built on oil, manufacturing and agriculture". The people in OKC throw around terms like "Big league city" in aspiration, yet are unwilling to embrace creativity as a necessity to become one.

Also, it's easy to confuse "identity" with "gimmick". An identity spans greater than just the look of a place or being able to call it "native american" or "cowboy" or "western". Those are "themes", which, unfortunately many surrounding cities have marketed to death. Albequerque, in example, is a good blend of New Mexico identity. Oklahoma has a rich history, albiet young.


One could easily make the argument that everything has been done already so we simply need to look to other cities and adapt. I mean canals aren't new to cities, neither are arenas, high rise and/or loft apartment living spaces, neither are theme parks. Why "reinvent the wheel"? As the saying goes, "Good engineers invent, great engineers steal."

I'm not saying OKC shouldn't have these things, just that they need to be planned based upon what can give the city and original flavor. How can it be done different? Asking how we can create a new definition of what a city can be is not a pointless question. In answering this question, certainly similar means of other cities will come up to some extent. The originality comes in when redefining how a city serves its people is the main focus.

I would highly argue that filling a city with replicas of what others have is far more "artificial" and "Disney World" than coming up with one's own aesthetical flavor. The city's youth is not a detriment, but makes the challenge that much easier.

We moved from OKC to Arlington, TX in 1988. I must say that the changes I've seen in the last 10 years, on my visits to family, are encouraging. But it's discouraging to see what's declined.

I lived around 44th and S. May from '74 to '84 and, while not the most upscale part of OKC, it was at least clean. Now the whole of S May looks like a 3rd world country. NW 23rd between Western and Robinson always seemed to have so much potential, but it looks abandoned now. Harvey Park looks shabby now, compared to what I remember.

I lived in a house at 17th and Shartel from 72-74 and am really glad to see how that area is looking now. The same goes for Mesta Park and the district encompassed by Shartel, Western, NW 36th, NW 50th. I like the N. Western Restaurant area too. Nice to see Paseo with a second (or third, or fourth) life.

Sometimes, while visiting, I think that living in OKC again might not be too bad. But when I get back home to Arlington and realize that I'm addicted to a great newspaper (Dallas Morning News), season tickets to the Texas Rangers, Whole Foods, Central Market, movie theaters with reclining seats-floor to ceiling digital screens- in seat food service- and no one under 18 admitted, and a literal plethora of truly great restaurants in either Arlington, Dallas or Fort Worth, I realize that, for me, OKC can be a nice place to visit, but I still don't want to live there.

There was an article today about Californians moving to Oklahoma, and all the people they profiled were from here originally or had other strong ties.

This repatriation will happen more and more frequently as OKC and the job market continue to grow.

However, it should be pointed out that the large majority of people that move away never come back. In fact, of the people I know (and I maintain my high school class database of almost 1,000 plus know hundreds more from college) I'd say more than 90% that leave stay gone.

So, I always assume when someone leaves the area (young or otherwise), they won't be coming back. That's just human nature due to forming a new life elsewhere and also wanting to avoid the feeling of moving backwards (in the sense that you've already "been there, done that").

I read that article on NewsOK as well, and everyone they profiled was older or had a family. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, it just struck me as interesting. And it actually said something to the effect of "while many young professionals leave Oklahoma for California...."

Just thinking about all of the people I knew that I went to school with at OU and are living in the area, not one would say they don't like it here or this is somehow a "bad" place, and many would defend it if given the chance. But a lot would agree that there are better places. Whether thats grass-is-greener syndrome or post collge angst about spreading you wings and trying somplace new is way above my head. Its complicated, and OKC is hardly alone in trying to figure out how to get young people to stay or even move here.

One a side note, there was another story written by the AP no less about what a mess Tulsa is in right now. So I guess things could always be worse.

On the same day that you had trouble finding healthy stuff to do I rode my bike to a coffee shop and read outside for a while. Then I headed to the river for a run and ate at CoolGreens. OKC doesn't have the options of other places, but a lot of time it's what you make of it. I live in midtown and lead a very active lifestyle...

KilgoreTrout

Of course I don't know, but I suspect Spartan was just having a bad day. I was able to have a great run, and eat sushi and drink Crown that day.

A wife, a few kids, and a couple of jobs would make not finding healthy food and a tennis court look like the best day of your life!

I'm writing with a sense of humor....

Peace

Ie