I don't know if this idea has ever been tossed around, but wouldn't it be neat to have an interstate from Oklahoma City to Denver? What do you all think?

With Paint, I put together this map using Google Maps and drew where this visionary interstate highway could be built between OKC and Denver. Also, I drew a visionary extension of I-45, connecting Dallas to Tulsa, and Tulsa to the Kansas City area. What are your opinions? Any more ideas or alternatives? If so, let's draw!

680

The "Northwest Passage" was former Governor George Nigh's longtime dream.

We do need a highway from Denver thru OKC down to Shreveport/New Orleans, but the highway from Dallas to KC parallels with I-35 and is not needed.

hmmm... interesting idea. in colorado, i'd think that your hypothetical interstate would follow either highway 50 and hook into i-25 or follow highway 287 hooking into i-70. either way, more existing right of way would be used. of those two variations, hooking into i-25 would also create direct access to pueblo and colorado springs without backtracking so i'd think that would be the preferred route.

-M

Colorado would likely get behind this. They are already isolated as it is, and this would improve their connectivity to the southeast.

Hwy 75 should be upgraded, maybe not to an interstate but to limited access highway from the Oklahoma border to Tulsa. 75 is already limited access from Dallas to just across the border. That would require bypassing several of the small towns along the way, and it would likely cut drive times from Tulsa to Dallas to under 4 hours.

I-45 to Checotah is the long range plan but it will require Oklahoma to make a postion of it a toll road.

http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-045.html

There are no plans for a Denver to OKC route although nearly every even number between 1-40 and I-70 is available.

i have ben wishing for this for awhile, a straight shot to denver will save me hours on visiting my niece, and a a straight path to shreveport, oh can how great can it be not going to dallas area then to shreveport.. we really need this, anyway this can become possible, i doubt it since it makes since, gov't-states usually builds things that are pointless

That's a whole lot of money to be spent on a road that goes through the middle of nowhere. There's a whole lot of nothing between OKC and Denver..might be the worst stretch of that in America if they built such a road. Seems like there would be more efficient uses of the money.

1-40 and I-70 is available.

Isn't there something to how they name the interstates, like even numbers are e/w and odds are n/s.

I spoke with some people at ODOT and OTA a while ago about this idea. I don't think there are any firm plans to develop this into a full blown interstate, however they are widening most of it to four lanes.

I travel that way all the time when going to Colorado. However, at Boise City I cut over to New Mexico and then to I-25, seems to be the fastest way for me. Not a lot of cops on that road :Smiley259

This new Interstate should go NW of OKC through Okarche, Okeene, Fairview, etc;.

By the way, I have 240 acres in Fairview for sale if the State or anyone else is interested. (self interest intended)

That's a whole lot of money to be spent on a road that goes through the middle of nowhere. There's a whole lot of nothing between OKC and Denver..might be the worst stretch of that in America if they built such a road. Seems like there would be more efficient uses of the money.

The stretch from Salina to Denver isn't any better.

Isn't there something to how they name the interstates, like even numbers are e/w and odds are n/s.

Here is more than you will ever want to know:

http://www.interstate-guide.com/interstate.html



Directions
Even Numbers travel east-west (I-4, I-8, I-10, I-12, etc.)
Odd Numbers travel north-south (I-5, I-15, I-17, I-19, etc.)

Significance
Routes ending in "0" are major east-west routes (I-10, I-20, I-40, I-70, I-80, I-90)
Routes ending in "5" are major north-south routes (I-5, I-15, I-25, I-35, I-55, I-65, I-75, I-85, I-95)

Orientation
Lower numbered routes are generally located in the south and west
Higher numbered routes are generally located in the north and east

As a result, the Interstate Highway system forms a grid with numerical designations increasing gradually from low to high - both from west to east and south to north.
Interstate Highways were intentionally numbered so that they would not conflict with the preexisting U.S. Numbered System; in fact, the intent was that no Interstate Highway and U.S. Highway would share the same number within the same state.
I-24 and U.S. 24 currently both exist in Illinois.

Current plans for extensions to I-49, I-69, and I-74 will result in those routes meeting and intersecting their U.S. Highway counterparts.

Interstate 50 and Interstate 60 were not assigned so as to avoid conflicts with U.S. 50 and U.S. 60 in the central part of the country.

Some Interstate Highways are Unsigned, including a variety of spur and loop routes that are often superfluous or confusing designations in addition to the primary route number.

Loop routes and through routes that generally connect to an Interstate highway at either end have an even first digit.:

Full 360-degree beltways include I-270 OH, I-275 KY/OH/IN, I-285 GA, I-410 TX, I-465 IN, I-495 MD/VA, I-610 TX, I-695 MD .

I-275 in KY, IN, and OH is the only three-digit Interstate currently to serve three states.

I-495 (Capital Beltway) serves Virginia and Maryland, but a portion of the route passes through the District of Columbia while crossing the Potomac River at the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.

I-271 and I-480 merge together briefly east of Cleveland, marking the only location where two three-digit Interstate routes merge together.

The following routes have an even first digit but do not end at another Interstate highway on one end: I-264 VA, I-295 NY, I-478 NY, I-495 NY, I-678 NY, I-635 TX, I-878 NY.

The following routes are examples of intercity routes, acting in a regional capacity: I-280 CA, I-476 PA, I-495 MA, I-680 CA, I-684 NY/CT
I-238 in CA acts as a spur of I-80, connecting I-880 and I-580 in the San Francisco Bay Area. At the time it was commissioned, no more I-x80 route numbers were available for use, so the designation of adjacent CA 238 was used to number I-238.

Some even-prefixed three-digit routes serve states that are not served by their parents, including I-275 OH/KY/IN and I-287 NJ/NY.

Spur routes and city routes that may or may not connect to an Interstate highway at one end have an odd first digit:
I-585 in SC does not connect to its parent (I-85) currently; it begins at Business Loop I-85 and ends in downtown Spartanburg.

The following routes are examples of intercity routes, acting in a regional capacity: I-380 PA, I-385 SC, I-505 CA.

Some odd-prefixed three-digit routes serve states that are not served by their parents, including I-129 NE/IA and I-535 MN/WI.

Some Interstates have state route extensions, including I-15 in San Diego (continues as CA 15), I-265 in New Albany (continues as IN 265), I-381 in Bristol (continues as VA 381), I-481 in Syracuse (continues as NY 481), I-690 in Syracuse (continues as NY 690), and I-794 in Milwaukee (continues as WI 794/Lake Parkway).

Some proposed future Interstate corridors have state route designations for now, including TN 840 near Nashville and CA 905 in San Diego.

Still other state routes have numbers that may make it look like a future Interstate corridor but are not, including VT 191 in Newport and IL 394 near Chicago Heights.

every even number between 1-40 and I-70 is available.


Isn't there something to how they name the interstates, like even numbers are e/w and odds are n/s.

I always used to wonder for years why there was such a gap in the even e/w interstates (specifically, between I-44 and I-64). Turns out the rules say you can't have a interstate with the same number as a US-Hwy (also even e/w but which start low in the north go higher towards the south) in the same state. Which is why there is such a gap throughout the middle of the country.

It's not a problem for the n/s odd Interstates and US-Hwy because of the national population distribution and this overlap doesn't occur.

Of course, there are numerous interstates that go out of zone, especially in a diagonal direction.

What would be the OKCTalk designation for this route?

No, no, no!! That is one of the most pristine parts of the state left that is relatively untouched by the modern world. It may sound selfish, but I hope that an interstate does not plow through what's left of the prairies to the detriment of that fragile ecology. Train yes, interstate NO! Not just to serve the egoistic whims of a bunch of urban ski-fans that need a quicker break to the mountain!!

Let the controversy roll........

what would be the okctalk designation for this route?

i-48

I-25 from albuquerque to las cruces has nothing really except a town called elephant butte lol, but it serves a point( to get to el paso faster)].. a lot of gallons of gas would be saved on trucking from denver all the way to shreveport, and small towns can grow witha interstae beside it

Not just to serve the egoistic whims of a bunch of urban ski-fans that need a quicker break to the mountain!!


Actually now that you mention that, maybe we do badly need this highway..

No, no, no!! That is one of the most pristine parts of the state left that is relatively untouched by the modern world. It may sound selfish, but I hope that an interstate does not plow through what's left of the prairies to the detriment of that fragile ecology. Train yes, interstate NO! Not just to serve the egoistic whims of a bunch of urban ski-fans that need a quicker break to the mountain!!

Let the controversy roll........

That would cut travel time to Denver to 8 hours. You could be in Summit County in under 10 hours. That would be really nice for people wanting to ski on long weekends. Of course that's not why you build a new billion dollar interstate, but it would be nice!

I imagine we'll see Hwy 69/75 upgraded before we see an interstate to Denver.

This new Interstate should go NW of OKC through Okarche, Okeene, Fairview, etc;.

By the way, I have 240 acres in Fairview for sale if the State or anyone else is interested. (self interest intended)

Used to farm out west of Fairview for my Grandparents a lot, RC, and we had the bigger part of a section in town as well. (just as you head across the tracks on 60 heading west). Unfortunately, so many of the 'family farms' have been bought up... Actually the route up through 81, then through Fairview and out through Bouse Junction wouldn't be that bad, scenery wise... I don't think there is the demand for it though, and it'd probably follow the Watonga to Ft. Supply route.
M. Burlison

For years, I have thought that such a interstate would be a good idea.

I think that if such a road were built, then it would have to run through Woodward, Guymon, Lamar, CO to make it economically feasible. Then connect it I-25 at Colorado Springs.

What would be the OKCTalk designation for this route?

Interstate 51. :Smiley259

http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-045.html

^I'm not very fond of the idea of I-45 ending in Checotah, nothing against the town or anything! I just think it would make more sense to have I-45 go to Tulsa, rather than having it end some 50 miles to the southeast. And with this, my hypothetical idea is to upgrade all of Highway 69/75 to interstate standards (through Calera, and from Caddo to McAlester), and then have the interstate veer onto the northern section of Indian Nation Turnpike towards Henryetta. Then have Highway 75 upgraded again all the way to Tulsa, then off to Kansas City! :smile:

If I-45 were extended to Checotah, would that town be at risk of losing its 1 stop light town designation? lol

The problem with Tulsa-KC is that somebody already jumped on NW Ark-KC and that's going to become an interstate.

Used to farm out west of Fairview for my Grandparents a lot, RC, and we had the bigger part of a section in town as well. (just as you head across the tracks on 60 heading west). Unfortunately, so many of the 'family farms' have been bought up... Actually the route up through 81, then through Fairview and out through Bouse Junction wouldn't be that bad, scenery wise... I don't think there is the demand for it though, and it'd probably follow the Watonga to Ft. Supply route.
M. Burlison

Small world, I inherited the land from my great uncle, I still have several famiy members in the area. Did you know any Keetons (Mom's maiden name)

Colorado is currently working on the Ports to Plains corridor. No plans to go to OKC.

Ports to Plains CDOT (http://www.coloradodot.info/library/studies/ports2plains)

http://www.coloradodot.info/library/studies/ports2plains/corridormap7142004.jpg/image

Yes, I do not know them well, but I have met some Keetons and my grandparents spoke of them. Email me: michaelburlison@tx.rr.com

On my half-dozen annual drives to and from Denver to OKC, I would dearly love to see a significantly improved highway. As it is, it takes 10-11 hours to drive but 1.25 hours to fly. That port-to-plains idea would be a great improvement but someone needs to make New Mexico increase the speed limit on that portion from CLayton to Raton. Its desolate, it's wide-open, and they make you drive 60 mph on great 2 lane with shoulders or 65 on divided roadway. The excuse is construction but the construction is virtually all separate from the main highway. Its a nice dream but doubtful because no one has any money.

KERRY:
Here is more than you will ever want to know

Correct, more than I would ever want or need to know. It is amazing to think about how much thought goes into something that most people don't even pay attention to.

In all honesty, I would hate to see an interstate rip through NW Oklahoma. I think widening it to four lanes should be good enough. If an interstate was to go through some of those towns located along the route, it would destroy them. Just look at the old mother road, Route 66, and what happened to many of the towns along it when I-40 opened.

MUGOFBEER:
someone needs to make New Mexico increase the speed limit on that portion from CLayton to Raton

Agreed. It always drives me nuts. Especially when you hit that little town (Des Moines?) between Clayton and Raton (right around the volcano) and the speed limit drops to 10. Ok maybe its 25, but it sure seems so much slower. The safety corridor thing also is a bit odd to me.

Still, the NW Passage is my favorite way to get my Rocky Mountain High a couple of times a year.

If an interstate was to go through some of those towns located along the route, it would destroy them. Just look at the old mother road, Route 66, and what happened to many of the towns along it when I-40 opened.

It has taken 30 years for towns along US1 here in Florida to grow west to I-95 and many of them are still not there. It has led to massive sprawl and left behind vacant buildings and abandoned neighborhoods along the old US1.

Just look at the old mother road, Route 66, and what happened to many of the towns along it when I-40 opened.


swilki, I went on the old mother road from OKC to California a number of times before the interstate was built. It was tedious and much more dangerous. Granted a few small towns got bypassed when I40 was built but the benefits overall far outwayed those bypasses. Most medium to larger size cities on that route have greatly benefited from the greater access even if the traffic doesn't go directly through their downtowns.

Everyone wants that hypotenuse route but it will never happen. If anything, they need to build from Amarillo, northwest to Raton or something. There's jack poo out that way. The highway between Clayton and Raton will never be transformed into an interstate. It's a scenic route. There's an abandoned rail line between Tucumcari and Raton that would be a good lay line for a shortcut interstate. With it, they could complete the New Mexico Interstate Triangle, lol. But honestly, it would be just as good as going north out of OKC to Salina and then west to Denver.

You want the shortest route with the least amount of snow (hence dodging Raton Pass on the fringe of the Sangre De Cristo range) just go north out of Boise City. There's a few backroads you can take just over the border in to Colorado (my dad would do 90 on these roads (more dirt than gravel, of course he was in a Suburban)) that will get you over to the state highway that goes westbound into Trinidad. From there it's a straight shot north to Denver...

When I was a student at OU during the late 70s, I spent a lot of time looking at old business/chamber publications. (Nothing to do with my major, I was just interested in our two largest cities and urban development in general.) I can't remember the name of the pub where I saw this info, but I believe it was put out by the OKC Chamber of Commerce. Anyway, long story short, there *was* a proposal at one time to build an Interstate from New Orleans to Denver through OKC.

Anyone down in Norman want to go to Bizzell Library and dig that up? ;-)

This new Interstate should go NW of OKC through Okarche, Okeene, Fairview, etc;.

By the way, I have 240 acres in Fairview for sale if the State or anyone else is interested. (self interest intended)

I'll pretend to be interested in purchasing your land for...hmmm road development but first i'll need to spend a year or two hunting on it - you know just to cut down on the animals that will be displaced during construction.

During the 12 hour drive i've thought the same thing numerous times. Never going to happen, but sometimes you can get some pretty cheap flights if you look at the right times.

there *was* a proposal at one time to build an Interstate from New Orleans to Denver through OKC.)

If an interstate was to built from Denver to NOLA, where exactly in southeastern Oklahoma would the roadway go? Any ideas or guesses? :^D

It would probably branch off of the I-49 route that is under construction from Shreveport to Kansas City.

1. Follow I-49 north out of Shreveport to Texarkana
2. Texarkana to Idabel to Hugo to Antlers to Atoka to Ada to S. Norman then eventually join up with I-25 at Pueblo, CO.

I like kerrys idea, wish it could happen. just think okc would be the main interstate crossing if that was the case

Me too! Oklahoma City would definitely be the crossroads of America.

It would probably branch off of the I-49 route that is under construction from Shreveport to Kansas City.

1. Follow I-49 north out of Shreveport to Texarkana
2. Texarkana to Idabel to Hugo to Antlers to Atoka to Ada to S. Norman then eventually join up with I-25 at Pueblo, CO.

Not really seeing the overall cost/benefit or time savings to this over the existing I-20 to [US HWY 80] to I-635 to I-35
Perhaps it would improve the SE OK towns, but perhaps not.

Just look at all the freeways that tangle the East Coast, especially North Carolina.

Not really seeing the overall cost/benefit or time savings to this over the existing I-20 to [US HWY 80] to I-635 to I-35
Perhaps it would improve the SE OK towns, but perhaps not.

The benefit wouldn't be so much from connectiing OKC to the southeast, the benefit would be from connecting the southeast US to Denver and Salt Lake City. Although, depending on what time you hit I-635 in Dallas I could drive from Texarkana to OKC before you could drive from I-20 to I-35.

Haha. So true. LBJ Freeway is notorious for its congestion. :|

YES!! We need this highway now, if only to prevent the dangerous condition of falling asleep while driving due to the boring, LONG drive that currently exists.

This is a glaring omission in our highway system. Needs to be done.

Interestingly enough, I've noted quite incidentally that there is a conspicuous absence of these NW/SE-oriented interstates throughout the southeast. I personally speculate that's more a reflection of how the population migrated across the area over the decades more than anything.

As an example, only now in the last few years is US-78 being rebuilt into what's now designated as "Future I-22" going southeast from Memphis into Birmingham. There's a similar glaring interstate omission going from Birmingham to the SE toward southern Georgia. The part that's been rebuilt, which I drove en route to Florida two years ago, was one of the nicest stretches of Interstate I've driven anywhere, but once you hit Birmingham, you're back to state roads or old US highway that goes through every small town (and corresponding speed trap) you can imagine. As highway congestion through Atlanta worsens seemingly by the day, the conventional route from Birmingham to Atlanta via I-20 is increasingly in need of an alternative.

I've roughly mapped out some other routes in the region in light of previous vacation plans, and it just became apparent that the NW/SE routes are, in many cases, conspicuous by their absence. The OKC-Denver path is merely one on the list, and I think George Nigh was, in this regard, very smart for having at least tried to get this route established, even if it never happened.

As much as I think this route would make great sense, frankly, I think it'll never happen - at least not in my lifetime. When projects like the I-35/I-240 interchange are, themselves, on the order of a decade away, and the I-40 Crosstown rebuild was a bit of a struggle to get funded, the notion of an entirely new interstate seems decidedly unlikely. Not meaning to be a wet blanket, just realizing that's probably where things stand...

A good upgraded 2 land road would be all that’s needed for almost the entire route.
There are far too many other places to spend our limited resources for this interstate to ever be built.


But It would help if they built more passing lanes, bypasses around small towns and a few more miles of 4 lane high way in certain spots.
On the high plains a few more snow fences would help but in some places farmers could be paid a small fee to leave a few rows of corn near the road.
I have lived in Guymon and in far SW Kansas, once you get NW of Woodward there is very little traffic 99% of the time.

Unfortunately, I think this would tend to be driven by economic need. I'm getting deja vu that I've talked about this before, but generally interstate traffic is heavier NE to SW and almost non existant NW to SE.

You are right SoonerDave - having driven from OKC to Florida many times we usually have to use 2 lane divided roads to get from I-10 to I-20. There is very little connecting I-20 to I-40. We used the I-22 route last year and it was a huge time saver but we started in Atlanta. If we had to start here in Jax we wouldn't be able to use it. It would be nice if I-85 went from Montgomery, AL to Tallahassee, FL.

This is a glaring omission in our highway system. Needs to be done.

Interestingly enough, I've noted quite incidentally that there is a conspicuous absence of these NW/SE-oriented interstates throughout the southeast. I personally speculate that's more a reflection of how the population migrated across the area over the decades more than anything.

As an example, only now in the last few years is US-78 being rebuilt into what's now designated as "Future I-22" going southeast from Memphis into Birmingham. There's a similar glaring interstate omission going from Birmingham to the SE toward southern Georgia. The part that's been rebuilt, which I drove en route to Florida two years ago, was one of the nicest stretches of Interstate I've driven anywhere, but once you hit Birmingham, you're back to state roads or old US highway that goes through every small town (and corresponding speed trap) you can imagine. As highway congestion through Atlanta worsens seemingly by the day, the conventional route from Birmingham to Atlanta via I-20 is increasingly in need of an alternative.

I've roughly mapped out some other routes in the region in light of previous vacation plans, and it just became apparent that the NW/SE routes are, in many cases, conspicuous by their absence. The OKC-Denver path is merely one on the list, and I think George Nigh was, in this regard, very smart for having at least tried to get this route established, even if it never happened.

As much as I think this route would make great sense, frankly, I think it'll never happen - at least not in my lifetime. When projects like the I-35/I-240 interchange are, themselves, on the order of a decade away, and the I-40 Crosstown rebuild was a bit of a struggle to get funded, the notion of an entirely new interstate seems decidedly unlikely. Not meaning to be a wet blanket, just realizing that's probably where things stand...

Oklahoma alone cannot get it built. It will take Colorado promoting it (it affects them the most, as it connects them to the southeast and more importantly major distribution centers in Dallas and the Houston seaport) and also Texas, with their political clout, to get it done. Both states, not to mention Oklahoma, are not in the financial position to be building a new interstate in the next 5-10 years. Maybe after that, who knows.

They said the Arkansas River Navigation System was a pie-in-the-sky plan back in the 60's. It took several billion dollars and the political might of Sen. Robert S. Kerr (and Sen. McKlellan of Arkansas) but it finally got built in the 70's giving Oklahoma an inland river ports at Catoosa and Muskogee. The Catoosa port is the largest on the river (larger than Little Rock's) and has a huge impact to the Tulsa metro economy. So if they can make the Arkansas navigable (which was quite the feat due to the elevation change from the Mississippi toward Tulsa) then they can build an interstate from OKC to Denver. What Senator(s) will take up the charge??

The stretch from Salina to Denver isn't any better.

I actually love much of that drive towards Colorado.

So if they can make the Arkansas navigable (which was quite the feat due to the elevation change from the Mississippi toward Tulsa) then they can build an interstate from OKC to Denver. What Senator(s) will take up the charge??

Don't count on Coburn or Inhofe, that's for sure.

Don't count on Coburn or Inhofe, that's for sure.

Yes, count on someone who will spend money we don't have!

Yes, count on someone who will spend money we don't have!

That is the big problem. We are broke and can't afford it.

Don't count on Coburn or Inhofe, that's for sure.

Exactly why it won't happen until another Sen. Kerr (who helped connect Oklahoma to the Gulf), Gov. Nigh (who originally proposed the 'Northwest Passage') or someone visionary takes office. We have not had a major statewide project in decades. Though I think upgrading US 75/69 between Dallas and Tulsa would be a higher priority.

"In the early 1980s, Governor George Nigh was able to obtain $97.1 million to upgrade the highway between Oklahoma City and Colorado..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_State_Highway_3

Building an interstate would be incredibly expensive, and there's really not enuf traffic to make it viable.

Building an interstate would be incredibly expensive, and there's really not enuf traffic to make it viable.

Precisely! I don't disagree that it would be nice for those of us who may want to make a run to the Denver area for vacation, but I don't think that would ever justify it.... Dreaming about how it would be nice is one thing, griping at people for not doing it is another.

That is the big problem. We are broke and can't afford it.

not trying to justify constructing this highway, because we are indeed broke. But isn't Oklahoma considered a donor state with regards to federal highway tax dollars??? We really need to get that money back in the state to fix all our current problems with our highways.

You are right SoonerDave - having driven from OKC to Florida many times we usually have to use 2 lane divided roads to get from I-10 to I-20. There is very little connecting I-20 to I-40. We used the I-22 route last year and it was a huge time saver but we started in Atlanta. If we had to start here in Jax we wouldn't be able to use it. It would be nice if I-85 went from Montgomery, AL to Tallahassee, FL.

I've driven the I-20/I-75 route to Florida through Atlanta three times in the last decade, and each time Atlanta was a little worse than the time before. Each time, I swore I wouldn't go through Atlanta again, and every time I've made that promise, I look at the alternatives coming out of Birmingham, AL and discover there really aren't any - and back through Atlanta I go! Arrgh! Just not crazy about trekking through relatively rural stretches of state highway or older US highway in the deep south with an out-of-state tag and get tagged in a speed trap. I've come across some real nightmare stories that some of those small towns tag out-of-staters with tickets on the order of several hundred dollars, set up tiny stretches of road with a dropped, unmarked speed limit and just start cherry picking drivers. No thanks.

Sorry, that's a topic drift, but the absence of a reliable, full interstate from Birmingham to I-10 or at least the Valdosta area is just kinda startling..

I've driven the I-20/I-75 route to Florida through Atlanta three times in the last decade, and each time Atlanta was a little worse than the time before. Each time, I swore I wouldn't go through Atlanta again, and every time I've made that promise, I look at the alternatives coming out of Birmingham, AL and discover there really aren't any - and back through Atlanta I go! Arrgh! Just not crazy about trekking through relatively rural stretches of state highway or older US highway in the deep south with an out-of-state tag and get tagged in a speed trap. I've come across some real nightmare stories that some of those small towns tag out-of-staters with tickets on the order of several hundred dollars, set up tiny stretches of road with a dropped, unmarked speed limit and just start cherry picking drivers. No thanks.

Sorry, that's a topic drift, but the absence of a reliable, full interstate from Birmingham to I-10 or at least the Valdosta area is just kinda startling..

You have probably seen My Cousin Venny too many times. We tried going south out of Birmingham one time to Montgomery and then down to Dothan and Tallahassee. Montgomery was the scariest part of the trip. The main problem is that takes soooooo looooooong. You have to slow down for every town. Twice I have taken back roads to try and make a short cut and the first time I got stuck behind a logging truck for 20 miles with no way to pass and the second time I had to go 45 mph behind a pickup loaded with rolls of hay for half an hour.

Kerry, on the many many trips I and coworkers used to make to McAlester, we'd call those DB's, our designated blockers.

not trying to justify constructing this highway, because we are indeed broke. But isn't Oklahoma considered a donor state with regards to federal highway tax dollars??? We really need to get that money back in the state to fix all our current problems with our highways.

That certainly used to be the case, but seem to recall reading somewhere that we turned the corner on that and now getting more than we are putting in. Of course that doesn't make up for the decades where we were a donor state.

How come George Nigh's Northwest Passage never came to be?