View Full Version : Grocery downtown



OKCretro
01-12-2011, 08:56 AM
heard a rumor that Crescent Market is moving to 6th and Broadway or somewhere around there.

Anyone else hear this?

metro
01-12-2011, 10:13 AM
That could make sense, maybe old CD Warehouse bldg, its plenty big enough

betts
01-12-2011, 10:23 AM
Yes. But I also heard they're looking at locations up north too. I would love to see them anywhere downtown to Midtown and think they could do well if they pull in the Heritage Hills and Mesta Park shoppers.

Pete
01-12-2011, 10:32 AM
Somewhere in Auto Alley would be great for the downtown community, as that is still considered downtown and would go a long way towards filling that hole for those that live and want to live in the downtown area.

Also, it's still easy access for the affluent neighborhoods to the north. Would also help turn AA into more of a retail desitnation.


As a side note, anyone know why they are looking at this point in time? I know CHK has not received any sort of approval to make changes at NH Plaza and it doesn't even seem like this is coming anytime soon.

I'm sure Crescent eventually will be displaced but why are they looking now? Perhaps they don't want to go head-to-head with the new Whole Foods?

betts
01-12-2011, 10:33 AM
Chesapeake just raised Crescent's rent by quite a bit, I've heard. I'm not sure why. Maybe Whole Foods doesn't want any competition within a certain range?

Pete
01-12-2011, 10:43 AM
Interesting, betts.

The only reason CHK would do that is if they wanted them out of there. That must mean they are ramping up plans for NH Plaza.


I wouldn't be surprised if the plan was to move a lot of the NH Plaza tenants to the new construction at Classen Curve and the developing area around Whole Foods. Obviously, that wouldn't work for Crescent.

You know they are going to raze and rebuild at least the south section of the plaza and I imagine they will be courting a lot of high-profile luxury retailers for that.

metro
01-12-2011, 12:05 PM
It'd make more sense for them to move to DT after today's formal announcement of Market C closing.

Pete
01-12-2011, 12:29 PM
Market C is closing??? Bummer.

Wonder what will become of that cool little building.

Spartan
01-12-2011, 01:03 PM
That could make sense, maybe old CD Warehouse bldg, its plenty big enough

No metro, that's going to be Hideaway..

metro
01-12-2011, 01:14 PM
Market C is closing??? Bummer.

Wonder what will become of that cool little building.

They are expanding their catering operation. See thread in food court.

metro
01-12-2011, 01:15 PM
No metro, that's going to be Hideaway..

True, but I thought they were only using a portion of the building, it's like 13,000 sq. ft

Spartan
01-12-2011, 01:18 PM
Crescent Market would need more space than that. Are you saying the building is 13,000 sf? I don't see them squeezing in with another tenant into that space. The current Nichols Hills Plaza location is 20,000+ sf, and there's no doubt they would downsize, but I see them still needing at least half. I don't see them wanting to downsize their operation at all, it's just that as someone earlier stated, the NHP location does utilize a very cumbersome and inefficient floor plan.

Broadway would be awesome for them, but they just need more space than that particular building can offer them. I presume the same goes for the Bicycle Alley space.

betts
01-12-2011, 01:29 PM
I think Hideaway is taking the southern portion of the building too, based on where they're cleaning up, and that would put Crescent in the middle of the building. They need better parking than that site. There's a very large building up north of 13th on the west side of Broadway that is for lease. It looks like it would need a lot of renovation, but there's quite a bit of parking and again, it would be very accessible for not only downtown, but also Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. But I'll be happy were it located anywhere in the downtown/Midtown area. I'm not stuck on it being walkable for me, since usually my grocery shopping results than more than a bag or two.

Spartan
01-12-2011, 01:34 PM
I think Hideaway is taking the southern portion of the building too, based on where they're cleaning up, and that would put Crescent in the middle of the building. They need better parking than that site. There's a very large building up north of 13th on the west side of Broadway that is for lease. It looks like it would need a lot of renovation, but there's quite a bit of parking and again, it would be very accessible for not only downtown, but also Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. But I'll be happy were it located anywhere in the downtown/Midtown area. I'm not stuck on it being walkable for me, since usually my grocery shopping results than more than a bag or two.

Yeah, and also if you go north on Broadway there's 1101 and 1100 both of which just have temporary uses on the ground floor space.

I still say that the Packard NEEDS to be Full Circle. That building just screams bookstore to me. Full Circle just screams urban to me. It would be perfect.

Can you imagine if BOTH Crescent Market and Full Circle happened to move downtown within blocks of each other? That would be huge. Add it to Hideaway, Rawhide, other things..and now things are really cooking.

okclee
01-12-2011, 01:45 PM
Spartan.....Full circle continues to say they are not leaving 50 Penn. I am with you though perfect spot for their book store.

Betts,...I can't think of the building at 13th and Broadway, unless you mean the old used car building and lot next to yellow cab at 14th?

Steve
01-12-2011, 02:42 PM
heard a rumor that Crescent Market is moving to 6th and Broadway or somewhere around there.

Anyone else hear this?

A brand new poster with no hint to their identity throws out a "rumor" that nobody else has heard.
I'm calling you out. Either identify yourself or provide more background on this "rumor."

OKCTalker
01-12-2011, 03:13 PM
A brand new poster with no hint to their identity throws out a "rumor" that nobody else has heard.
I'm calling you out. Either identify yourself or provide more background on this "rumor."

Steve - You are such a SPOIL SPORT! Everybody was going for it!!!

Steve
01-12-2011, 03:19 PM
Not saying it's false... I'm just wanting to smoke him out. For what it's worth, I do think downtown will at some point see grocery as we get more and more rooftops. And there is interest out there....

MikeOKC
01-12-2011, 03:42 PM
I'm glad I sold my CHK when I did. I'm getting to really dislike this company. If you watch CNBC, they are becoming the company everyone loves to hate - for far too many reasons. I still say what many won't - Aubrey wouldn't still be there if he wasn't in the Hefner bloodline. Hiking the rent on Crescent sounds about right. They need to decide what business they're in. Did I mention how glad I am that sold my CHK stock? Ugh.

dankrutka
01-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Isn't there a grocery store going in the Level Apartments?

Spartan
01-12-2011, 06:48 PM
A brand new poster with no hint to their identity throws out a "rumor" that nobody else has heard.
I'm calling you out. Either identify yourself or provide more background on this "rumor."

I don't think this thread is the tell tale sign of Crescent Market moving downtown, and it's not this thread that has us all getting our hopes up. We were discussing in another thread that CM was starting to look at places in Midtown, and betts mentioned she had suggested to them a building on Walker I think. Apparently CM had their rents raised considerably and is being encouraged to leave the Whole Foods zone, which they're willing to do for their own bottom line, as well.

It seems very possible right now that Whole Foods could end up doing more to land downtown some grocery stores than downtown ever did for itself. With Crescent Market and the grocer that McKowns is going to sign, downtown could have two viable small grocers by the end of this year.

Meaculpa
01-12-2011, 07:39 PM
What about the large building on the East side of Walker between NW 7th and 8th streets?

Could this be a good spot for a grocery store? Parking, near homes, large building that doesn't appear to need much work. In fact, it kinda looks like a grocery store.

dankrutka
01-12-2011, 08:14 PM
It's amazing how much the no-grocery-store-downtown issue comes up. Downtown Dallas doesn't have a grocery store. I live in midtown and live closer to a grocery store than I ever have in my entire life (10 residences).

betts
01-12-2011, 08:52 PM
It's amazing how much the no-grocery-store-downtown issue comes up. Downtown Dallas doesn't have a grocery store. I live in midtown and live closer to a grocery store than I ever have in my entire life (10 residences).

Agree. I'd be delighted to have one, but its absence never entered my consciousness when I was thinking about whether to move downtown. The Homeland at 16th and Classen is fine and no further away than the Homeland was from my previous residence.

Dustin
01-12-2011, 08:56 PM
If there eventually is grocery downtown, will it cost $10 to park? lol.

metro
01-12-2011, 09:30 PM
What about the large building on the East side of Walker between NW 7th and 8th streets?

Could this be a good spot for a grocery store? Parking, near homes, large building that doesn't appear to need much work. In fact, it kinda looks like a grocery store.

I mentioned this same idea in the original thread on this topic. Other posters think it's not big enough.

Steve
01-12-2011, 09:30 PM
It's amazing how much the no-grocery-store-downtown issue comes up. Downtown Dallas doesn't have a grocery store. I live in midtown and live closer to a grocery store than I ever have in my entire life (10 residences).

Downtown Dallas does have a grocery - but it didn't happen without public incentives. http://www.urbanmarketdallas.com/

dankrutka
01-12-2011, 09:52 PM
Downtown Dallas does have a grocery - but it didn't happen without public incentives. http://www.urbanmarketdallas.com/

I stand corrected. I guess my main point is still that a downtown grocery store would be nice, but it seems like it's low on the priority list for me...

MikeOKC
01-12-2011, 09:54 PM
Agree. I'd be delighted to have one, but its absence never entered my consciousness when I was thinking about whether to move downtown. The Homeland at 16th and Classen is fine and no further away than the Homeland was from my previous residence.

I can understand that, betts. But, I think I hear the younger people say they are wanting a true urban atmosphere - and I can understand that. Living downtown (in most cities) usually means being able to get by without a car and walking to something as basic as a grocery store. I don't think that's unreasonable. Needing a box of cereal and living in an urban atmosphere shouldn't mean having to get in your car and driving to a suburban style supermarket.

Spartan
01-12-2011, 10:32 PM
I mentioned this same idea in the original thread on this topic. Other posters think it's not big enough.

More than 10,000 sf is probably big enough. Less than 10,000 sf would be questionable. Keep in mind they're currently around 22,000 sf I believe. They could squeeze that store into 12,000 maybe but it would be tight..Crescent Market loooves their wide aisles and red carpets, and that seems important to the owners.

The grocer in LEVEL is going to be tiny compared to Crescent Market.

okclee
01-17-2011, 12:10 PM
I posted this in the Midtown thread;

The north west corner of 14th and Broadway could be something for Crescent to look at. Nice size free standing building close to 10K sf, but easily expandable or could be new build to suit, decent sized parking lot too.

This location could be good, close to downtown, midtown, uptown, mesta park, heritage hills, deep deuce, etc. All these areas could use another option for closer grocery shopping. This location could also be along the future streetcar route, how cool would that be?

Rover
01-17-2011, 02:25 PM
Maybe something like the Stiles Farmers Market at 42nd St. and 9th Ave. in Manhattan would work downtown. It is low overhead and pretty cool. Surely in OKC we could keep it supplied.

OKCTalker
01-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Crescent Market loooves their wide aisles and red carpets, and that seems important to the owners.

I don't think the store has been renovated - or the carpets replaced - since the Johnson administration (that would be LYNDON Johnson 1963-1969, not ANDREW Johnson 1865-1869).

betts
01-17-2011, 03:48 PM
I posted this in the Midtown thread;

The north west corner of 14th and Broadway could be something for Crescent to look at. Nice size free standing building close to 10K sf, but easily expandable or could be new build to suit, decent sized parking lot too.

This location could be good, close to downtown, midtown, uptown, mesta park, heritage hills, deep deuce, etc. All these areas could use another option for closer grocery shopping. This location could also be along the future streetcar route, how cool would that be?

I either posted the same idea somewhere or told someone because I thought the same thing. It's a pretty rundown building, but may be far enough out on Broadway that the rent would be low enough to offset the renovation costs. It's a decent sized building with parking, close to Heritage Hills and yet, since it's on Broadway, it can be considered an urban grocery store, I believe.

bluedogok
02-28-2011, 07:52 PM
I still think a Chelsea Market concept would be a good addition for both shoppers and local business owners. Here is an article about upscale grocery.

The Architect's Newspaper - Golden Age of Groceries (http://www.archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=5179)

soonerguru
02-28-2011, 08:34 PM
I'm glad I sold my CHK when I did. I'm getting to really dislike this company. If you watch CNBC, they are becoming the company everyone loves to hate - for far too many reasons. I still say what many won't - Aubrey wouldn't still be there if he wasn't in the Hefner bloodline. Hiking the rent on Crescent sounds about right. They need to decide what business they're in. Did I mention how glad I am that sold my CHK stock? Ugh.

He's not in the Hefner bloodline. He's in the Kerr family if I'm not mistaken. He's no R.S. Kerr though, that's for sure. Every person I've ever known who has been around him says he is a major league prick of the highest order.

soonerguru
02-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Agree. I'd be delighted to have one, but its absence never entered my consciousness when I was thinking about whether to move downtown. The Homeland at 16th and Classen is fine and no further away than the Homeland was from my previous residence.

Perhaps you're being charitable, but the Homeland on Classen is not "fine" in any context.

betts
03-01-2011, 03:11 AM
Perhaps you're being charitable, but the Homeland on Classen is not "fine" in any context.

Ya know, if you compare it to some of the neighborhood grocery stores in NYC, it's deluxe. I agree, it's not Crescent Market, it's not Whole Foods and it's not even comparable to the Homeland on May and Britton Road. But, I can buy most of what I need there. I've wangled my husband into doing most of the staple shopping, as I really don't like grocery shopping anywhere, and that's where he goes. Of course, he grew up in New York so his perception may be skewed. I must confess that I stop by Crescent about once a week, since I take my dogs to doggie daycare near there one day a week. I will be delighted if Crescent Market moves downtown, and that is where I will shop, no doubt. But, I'm not really a foodie and so, as I said, I wasn't thinking grocery store when I moved. I do not lament the current grocery store situation, except as it affects other people thinking about moving downtown.

BoulderSooner
03-01-2011, 06:57 AM
He's not in the Hefner bloodline. He's in the Kerr family if I'm not mistaken. He's no R.S. Kerr though, that's for sure. Every person I've ever known who has been around him says he is a major league prick of the highest order.

i could not disagree more, to me he seems like a very down to earth normal guy... well as much as he could be

soonerguru
03-04-2011, 04:19 PM
i could not disagree more, to me he seems like a very down to earth normal guy... well as much as he could be

If you consider imperious people down to earth, i guess we'll have to disagree.

okclee
03-29-2011, 04:04 PM
"The Rush to Build Walkable Urban Grocery Stores"
http://urbanland.uli.org/Articles/2011/Mar/NewbergGrocery

okclee
04-12-2011, 11:36 AM
http://sustainablecitiescollective.com/sites/sustainablecitiescollective.com/files/imagepicker/60610/pic2_36.jpg

http://sustainablecitiescollective.com/cooltownstudios/23691/sizing-down-next-gen-urban-grocery-stores-2011?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Sustainable+Cities+Collective+%28all+ posts%29


Sizing down the next generation of urban grocery stores

We know cities are cool again, and as a result supermarkets now think so too. We also know auto-oriented suburban supermarkets with vast parking lots in urban area won’t fly. So how are the next generation of urban supermarkets fitting in? By getting smaller....

Under 5000 s.f. corner stores, micro grocery stores: These not-so-big neighborhood grocery stores under 2000 s.f. have always fit in just fine, just don’t call them Mom & Pops anymore (an image search will show you why not). Why? Because they’re human-scaled, walkable, potentially ubiquitous and require no parking. In other words, timeless. Examples: The 2000 s.f. Local D’Lish in Minneapolis, MN and 550 s.f. Mayberry Foodstuffs in Cincinnati, OH. Also, check out the Healthy Corner Stores Network supporting underserved communities with healthy food options.

5000 - 15,000 s.f. cafe supermarkets, neighborhood supermarkets, co-ops, food halls: This is that sweet spot in size where the average urban dweller can do most of their shopping, and where it becomes so difficult to compete with economies of scale that these stores are typically regional chains, unless it’s a co-op, an extraordinary community asset when it exists. One local approach is focus on not more than a handful of locations (some say anything over five stores that aren’t all in the same city constitutes a chain), or host a local cafe. The New Seasons Market in Portland, Oregon provides 90 bicycle parking spaces, almost three times the number of car parking spaces. On the chain side of thing, Trader Joe’s and Fresh & Easy Market at least create their own brands, emphasizing affordability, healthy eating and a friendly atmosphere.

20,000 - 40,000 s.f. destination supermarkets This is the maximum size a neighborhood supermarket should be in natural cultural districts, and even mega-chains like Wal-Mart understand this, though yes, it’s still Wal-Mart. At this size, there’s an opportunity to not only provide a full-sized cafe and specialty food stations (like at Urban Fare in Vancouver, Canada, pictured above), but even reorganize the entire store as a food hall a fast-growing trend.

50,000 and up In those increasingly rarer instances when national chains won’t size down their 50,000 to 60,000 supermarkets, they can be located in corporate retail districts, which should be distinct and separate from natural cultural districts. On the positive end for pedestrians, auto parking is completely hidden underground, to the side or above.

Read more in the Urban Land article, “The Rush to Build Walkable Urban Grocery Stores“http://urbanland.uli.org/Articles/2011/Mar/NewbergGrocery.

okclee
04-12-2011, 11:38 AM
I noticed that the LEVEL apartments in Deep Deuce has a sign out front advertising....Grocery Store space For Lease, and a number to call.