1901 NW Expressway
Opened March 3, 1960
Owner=Simon Properties
Sq. feet=1,100,000
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/pswiki1.jpg
Information & Latest News
2012: AMC buys and renovates theater
3/2/88: Reopens after major renovation: added 2nd level, Foley's dept. store
11/11/81: Enclosed mall area complete
6/17/80: Enclosure of the mall commences
3/3/60: Opened with John A. Brown, Montgomery Wards and Rothschild's as tenants
11/5/58: Ground breaking

Ground was broken for the first shopping mall in the Sooner State in September 1958. Originally known as the BELLEVUE SHOPPING CENTER, the prospective retail hub's name had been changed to PENN SQUARE CENTER by the time its first stores opened for business, on March 3, 1960.

The single-level, open-air complex was developed by OKC's Ben Wileman and the Rooney Family and designed by the firm of Sorey, Hill and Sorey. It was situated on a 49.5 acre tract, adjacent to the future route of Interstate 44, which was 3.5 miles northwest of the Oklahoma Statehouse.

Enveloping 575,000 leasable square feet, PENN SQUARE housed forty-six inline tenants and two anchor department stores. On the southwest was a 2-level (101,100 square foot), Oklahoma City-based John A. Brown. On the southeast stood a 2-level (168,400 square foot) Montgomery Ward.

Charter tenants included Lerner Shops, Peyton-Marcus apparel, Rothschild's apparel, Val Gene's Cafeteria, Extension One ladies' apparel, Rosenfield's Jewelers, the National Bank of Oklahoma City and an S.S. Kresge 5 and 10.

A taste of commercial competition came to PENN SQUARE in 1964, with the completion of SHEPHERD MALL {1.8 miles southwest, in Oklahoma City}. The latter was a small, community-class complex and the two shopping centers coexisted peaceably.

Other major shopping hubs built in the PENN SQUARE trade area were HERITAGE PARK MALL (1971-2010) {8.6 miles southeast, in Midwest City}, CROSSROADS MALL (1974) {10 miles southeast, in Oklahoma City} and QUAIL SPRINGS MALL (1980) {5.8 miles northwest, also in Oklahoma City}.

An enclosing renovation was done at PENN SQUARE CENTER in 1981-1982. The complex now encompassed 587,900 leasable square feet. The first nameplate change took place in September 1984, when John A. Brown was rebranded by Dillard's. In September 1985, the mall was sold to Cincinnati's JMB Federated Realty.

They initiated a 100 million dollar renovation of the property in 1986. The existing Dillard's was expanded into a 142,900 square foot operation. A second level of retail stores -including a new Food Court- was built and a 2-level (161,000 square foot), Houston-based Foley's was added to the mall's north side. Moreover, a 3-level parking garage was added, which was adjacent to the new Foley's.

The mall was officially rededicated March 2, 1988. The Dickinson Penn Square 10 multiplex, installed in new Upper Level space, showed its first features May 19, 1988. With this massive renovation, a rather mundane PENN SQUARE CENTER had reinvented itself as PENN SQUARE MALL; now the city's most upscale shopping venue.

A 2-level (126,000 square foot) J.C. Penney, built on the east end of the complex, opened for business October 30, 1995. This addition increased the mall's GLA to 1,051,000 square feet, making it the third-largest shopping mall in the state; this following Tulsa's WOODLAND HILLS (1976) and the aforementioned QUAIL SPRINGS MALL.

PENN SQUARE MALL was given a 10 million dollar facelift in the year 2000, with new flooring, lighting and soft seating areas installed. The year 2001 saw Montgomery Ward close its location. The store area was downsized to 125,500 square feet, with the remaining area dedicated to new inline tenants.

Dillard's East (a Men's and Children's store) opened in May 2002. The existing Dillard's was reconfigured as Dillard's West (dedicated to women's clothing and accessories). Foley's, on the north end of the mall, was "Macy-ated" in September 2006.

The Indianapolis-based Simon Property Group had acquired the center in February 2002. In 2007-2008, the mall's six entrances were rebuilt. A subsequent remodeling, done between August 2012 and May 2013, saw the Food Court and restrooms revamped and the cinema remodeled and renamed the AMC Penn Square 10.
Links
Official Site (http://www.simon.com/mall/penn-square-mall)
County Assessor Record
Gallery

Definitely the latter. Kids do stupid stuff like that, they're kids. People also cuss others out regularly. I've seen that happen a lot. I mean when you consider what a mall is, a massive structure that contains thousands of humans in high contact, then it's reasonable to assume you're going to see some things like this. I wouldn't look too much into it.

lol, my wife and i went out for lunch and she was getting so heated about the teenage girls sitting behind us they where non stop talking and giggling loudly about stupid stuff, and i laughed and told her she is getting old, remember a lot of us probably pissed or annoyed older people off when we where teens

Headed to the mall last night, since I was in the mood for some chocolate chip cookie dough cheesecake from The Cheesecake Factory:dizzy: Haven't been inside Penn Square in many years. What a letdown. The stores weren't bad. Seems like the clientele from Crossroads and Heritage Park Mall have set up shop at Penn Square. Witnessed a female talking s%^t to someone who was passing by and some teenage kid singing and dancing out loud in the middle of one of the walkways with no regard to foot traffic. I don't know....maybe I'm just getting old, since I cannot deal with people anymore.....


No, you are correct. A bunch of idiots hang around there. Nothing wrong with hanging at the mall, but learn how to carry yourself in a public place. Its funny you mention the dancing/singer teenager. I saw a guy rapping and dancing as he walked through the mall not too long ago. Not that I have a problem with someone enjoying themselves, but come on....Nobody wants to hear you rapping or see you with your pants down to your knees loitering through the mall.

The problem is that people these days dont seem to have any class and its really sad. I guess some people just dont understand.

I know teenagers will be teenagers. Been there, done that, and got a big a$$ whoopin' for that too. As mentioned before....maybe it's the sign of the times, I guess.

Nothing wrong with hanging at the mall, but learn how to carry yourself in a public place.

How should you carry yourself? I think this is interesting.

How should you carry yourself? I think this is interesting.

It's simple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkeAzqhlkNk

Seen but not heard. I sure miss the old days!

Cat Stevens refrain from "Father and Son" (album "Tea for the Tillerman"): "From the time that I could talk, I was ordered to listen..."

One thing I will say is that the problem is even worse at Quail Springs because the large movie theater tends to attract the teenage crowd. Security has had numerous teen problems out there, especially after hours when the stores are closed and just the movie theater is open. But, it all comes with being a mall. Malls attract both upscale shoppers and low life that like to hang out as well.

Headed to the mall last night, since I was in the mood for some chocolate chip cookie dough cheesecake from The Cheesecake Factory:dizzy: Haven't been inside Penn Square in many years. What a letdown. The stores weren't bad. Seems like the clientele from Crossroads and Heritage Park Mall have set up shop at Penn Square. Witnessed a female talking s%^t to someone who was passing by and some teenage kid singing and dancing out loud in the middle of one of the walkways with no regard to foot traffic. I don't know....maybe I'm just getting old, since I cannot deal with people anymore.....Well, if you're homophobic, you could have seen two young guys holding hands while taking a merry stroll in the mall. Being upset by that would also be a sign of growing old. I've seen that sight before and was more concerned for their safety from the homophobes than offended by it.

How should you carry yourself? I think this is interesting.

?? Nothing interesting about it.. Act normal and dont do things that embarass yourself or others around around. A tiny bit of respect will go a long way.

Tis thread ranks upnthere with Thunder and megax's thread on Crossroads mall.

ZOMG teens acting stupid a mall! Between this and the massive fish and bird kills it must mean the apocolypse is near!

All all seriousness, not picking on the OP. But this is the 2nd thread that suggests Penn Square is somehow going downhill and I just don't see it. But I'm not faulting you for being annoyed. I'm probably a lot closer to their age than you and I find some of the stuff teens do at the mall highly irritating. But its not like it some new phenomenon. I'm sure your generation did stuff that made your parents and grandparents shake their heads.

Penn Square is this regions premier shopping destination so its going to attract people of all walks of life.

?? Nothing interesting about it.. Act normal and dont do things that embarass yourself or others around around. A tiny bit of respect will go a long way.

What is normal?

I have to add my 2 cents, as I was a teen not that long ago, and me and my friends used to drive mall shoppers crazy. Malls and teens go together like milk and cereal.

Northpark in Dallas is the same way. Nothing new.

?? Nothing interesting about it.. Act normal and dont do things that embarass yourself or others around around. A tiny bit of respect will go a long way.

Is there any way we could set up a meeting so you could let me know if I am normal enough?

I have to add my 2 cents, as I was a teen not that long ago, and me and my friends used to drive mall shoppers crazy. Malls and teens go together like milk and cereal.

Northpark in Dallas is the same way. Nothing new.

This. Teens hang out at malls It's just the way it is.

What is normal?

Normal (adj)
a : according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern

Love it when dictionaries define things this way "Normal: not deviating from the norm" LOL

In the context of the mall where you have a representative cross-section of ages, cultures, income levels etc etc, it is what the majority of people do in the same situation.

Now in the case of the dancing teenager, within his group of friends it may be perfectly normal for them (among themselves). Maybe the person thought "Glee" should be real life and just break out in song & dance whenever.

If the majority of mall goers sing and dance in the walkways, that would then be normal. Since most don't, it is abnormal behavior.

I think one thing we all have to keep in mind that most of today's teenagers were raised by people who were children in adult bodies. Very few kids and teens are taught how to behave in public. Sure we wall annoyed the hell out of adults as kids however, the majority of the people on here new where the line was. If store employees or mall security had to get involved you took it down a notch or two and went about your business. You knew better then to bring things to a point where Mom and Dad or worse the police had to get involved. Being busted by the cops was not the badge of honor it is now.

Today only a select few have respect for others let alone authority. When things get bad enough for parents or police to be called the parents show up and blame everyone but the kid. If I were a little younger I would consider becoming a bail bondsman or a criminal defense attorney. Both those fields are about become very lucrative because many of today's teens are going to see jail or prison time at some point in their early adulthood. I predict we will soon hit a time where not being convicted of a crime will put you in the minority not the majority.

On another note, Heritage Park is closed, Crossroads is looking exactly like Heritage Park did in it's final years of existence (each passing day,month, year = another closed store and new "For Lease" sign). The kids have nowhere else to go other then Penn Square and Quail Springs. Both malls might as well go ahead and replace their security officers with off duty police officers. Otherwise the next big development in North OKC/Edmond might just suck all the stores out of both malls.

Fcuk it! I say Penn Square Mall should implement their version of the Mutawas (Morality) Police and correct people on the spot or else issue a citation or escort them off the mall premises.

I think one thing we all have to keep in mind that most of today's teenagers were raised by people who were children in adult bodies. Very few kids and teens are taught how to behave in public. Sure we wall annoyed the hell out of adults as kids however, the majority of the people on here new where the line was. If store employees or mall security had to get involved you took it down a notch or two and went about your business. You knew better then to bring things to a point where Mom and Dad or worse the police had to get involved. Being busted by the cops was not the badge of honor it is now.

Today only a select few have respect for others let alone authority. When things get bad enough for parents or police to be called the parents show up and blame everyone but the kid. If I were a little younger I would consider becoming a bail bondsman or a criminal defense attorney. Both those fields are about become very lucrative because many of today's teens are going to see jail or prison time at some point in their early adulthood. I predict we will soon hit a time where not being convicted of a crime will put you in the minority not the majority.

On another note, Heritage Park is closed, Crossroads is looking exactly like Heritage Park did in it's final years of existence (each passing day,month, year = another closed store and new "For Lease" sign). The kids have nowhere else to go other then Penn Square and Quail Springs. Both malls might as well go ahead and replace their security officers with off duty police officers. Otherwise the next big development in North OKC/Edmond might just suck all the stores out of both malls.

^ 100% spot on with this post. It all goes back to parenting.

I think one thing we all have to keep in mind that most of today's teenagers were raised by people who were children in adult bodies. Very few kids and teens are taught how to behave in public. Sure we wall annoyed the hell out of adults as kids however, the majority of the people on here new where the line was. If store employees or mall security had to get involved you took it down a notch or two and went about your business. You knew better then to bring things to a point where Mom and Dad or worse the police had to get involved. Being busted by the cops was not the badge of honor it is now.

Today only a select few have respect for others let alone authority. When things get bad enough for parents or police to be called the parents show up and blame everyone but the kid. If I were a little younger I would consider becoming a bail bondsman or a criminal defense attorney. Both those fields are about become very lucrative because many of today's teens are going to see jail or prison time at some point in their early adulthood. I predict we will soon hit a time where not being convicted of a crime will put you in the minority not the majority.

Completely false. Juvenile crime is falling and has been falling for the last 30 years. Kids today are not worse than before and are in fact much less likely to commit crimes.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/228479.pdf
http://www.urban.org/Uploadedpdf/youth-crime-drop.pdf
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/juvenile/stats/basic.html

I think one thing we all have to keep in mind that most of today's teenagers were raised by people who were children in adult bodies. Very few kids and teens are taught how to behave in public. Sure we wall annoyed the hell out of adults as kids however, the majority of the people on here new where the line was. If store employees or mall security had to get involved you took it down a notch or two and went about your business. You knew better then to bring things to a point where Mom and Dad or worse the police had to get involved. Being busted by the cops was not the badge of honor it is now.

Today only a select few have respect for others let alone authority. When things get bad enough for parents or police to be called the parents show up and blame everyone but the kid. If I were a little younger I would consider becoming a bail bondsman or a criminal defense attorney. Both those fields are about become very lucrative because many of today's teens are going to see jail or prison time at some point in their early adulthood. I predict we will soon hit a time where not being convicted of a crime will put you in the minority not the majority.

On another note, Heritage Park is closed, Crossroads is looking exactly like Heritage Park did in it's final years of existence (each passing day,month, year = another closed store and new "For Lease" sign). The kids have nowhere else to go other then Penn Square and Quail Springs. Both malls might as well go ahead and replace their security officers with off duty police officers. Otherwise the next big development in North OKC/Edmond might just suck all the stores out of both malls.


I don't buy this at all. First off, wha are you trying to imply by current teens being raised by children in adult bodies? What about the current "teen-parent" generation would suggest they are children in adult bodies en masse? I'm not saying there aren't really horrible parents, but surely not most of them.

I also think you're using selective viewing. You allege that teenagers are becoming worse and acting out more and wearing a criminal record like a badge of pride. However, those teenagers are the only ones you are seeing and hearing about. You are comparing these bad kids with your childhood and declaring everyone everyone under 21 (or whatever) a delinquent. I'm willing to bet, though, that you were a good kid who hung out with good kids and generally stayed away and ignored the bad kids. There are punks in your day, sure, but you didn't mess with them or their lifestyle so they seemed much less numerous. All you saw, for the most part, were the good kids.

You don't care about the good kids nowadays. You don' notice them. You have no interest in them and they don't do anything to draw your attention. The bad kids, though... You care about them. You hear news stories about them doing bad things. You see trends and fads that appear distasteful to you and draw erroneous conclusions on everyone who wears them. Then you really pay attention to the few that actively cause trouble in your presence. They swear or fight or just do horrible things. They are truly in the minority, but you only pay attention to them so they feel much more prevalent than they really are.

Anyway, just a thought.

Fcuk it! I say Penn Square Mall should implement their version of the Mutawas (Morality) Police and correct people on the spot or else issue a citation or escort them off the mall premises.

LANGUAGE PLEASE!!!!!! This isn't an adult only forum. Minor's do read these posts.

If the majority of mall goers sing and dance in the walkways, that would then be normal. Since most don't, it is abnormal behavior.

Larry, don't forget these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDN_W905ccc&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXh7JR9oKVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcQBE9QRFls

Even locally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzBl-PZLzhA&feature=related

It seems to be a new worlwide craze.

And how many of those were NOT planned, choreographed "performances"? Even with that, the majority of the mall goers are not participating, but observing the "abnormal" behavior. Entertaining to be sure. Something about the Hallelujah Chorus that brings a lump to my throat. Especially liked the more organic appearing one (the 2nd one) where it started with the lady on her cell phone (don't think she ever ends the call), then another person joins in, another and another, seemingly random people spread throughout the crowd and well performed too.

And how many of those were NOT planned, choreographed "performances"? Even with that, the majority of the mall goers are not participating, but observing the "abnormal" behavior. Entertaining to be sure. Something about the Hallelujah Chorus that brings a lump to my throat. Especially liked the more organic appearing one (the 2nd one) where it started with the lady on her cell phone (don't think she ever ends the call), then another person joins in, another and another, seemingly random people spread throughout the crowd and well performed too.

Larry, of course they were planned and I think the mall goers were enjoying the "abnormal" behavior. I agree that some people who go to malls can be obnoxious and oblivious to what others may think about what they are doing but sometimes a little levity is fun.

I am not disagreeing, it started with someone asking what was "normal" .....

This thread is something I'd expect Thunder to start

As my late grandfather would say "this thread is as useless as teets on a boar hog".

This thread is something I'd expect Thunder to start

We haven't gotten to the underground tunnels at Penn Square with the zombies yet, Metro. LOL

Love the videos. Really cheers me up and get into the Christmas spirit again. :-D

I have never witness something of this at any of the malls that I remember. I had done a group and solo performance involving ASL with Christian music at Woodland Hills Mall, but I never come across mass performance. Hopefully one day I will.

Thanks for sharing the videos.

Love the videos. Really cheers me up and get into the Christmas spirit again. :-D

I have never witness something of this at any of the malls that I remember. I had done a group and solo performance involving ASL with Christian music at Woodland Hills Mall, but I never come across mass performance. Hopefully one day I will.

Thanks for sharing the videos.

I'm amazed how well you're still playing this forum, Thunder. You play your Dumb Thunder/Smart Thunder as well as any troll I've ever seen.

Folks -- he's a TROLL. He has written incredibly sharp posts with perfect grammar and obvious intelligence and then - in a flash - he'll go back to the dumb acting, paranoid, strange, conspiracy buff, end-of-the-worlder, silly rumor mongering....the 'bizarre' Thunder. Classic trolling.

Remember the tornado activity was giving us "great national exposure" signature?
Remember the 2012 - we're all going to die signature?
There was a really off-the-wall signature about earthquakes.
I wish I had kept a list just for laughs and giggles.

He's having the time of his life playing OKCTalk.

@Bimmerdude - dumbest thread ever. Nice work.

I think one thing we all have to keep in mind that most of today's teenagers were raised by people who were children in adult bodies. Very few kids and teens are taught how to behave in public. Sure we wall annoyed the hell out of adults as kids however, the majority of the people on here new where the line was. If store employees or mall security had to get involved you took it down a notch or two and went about your business. You knew better then to bring things to a point where Mom and Dad or worse the police had to get involved. Being busted by the cops was not the badge of honor it is now.

Today only a select few have respect for others let alone authority. When things get bad enough for parents or police to be called the parents show up and blame everyone but the kid. If I were a little younger I would consider becoming a bail bondsman or a criminal defense attorney. Both those fields are about become very lucrative because many of today's teens are going to see jail or prison time at some point in their early adulthood. I predict we will soon hit a time where not being convicted of a crime will put you in the minority not the majority.

Dumbest. post. EVER. I teach in a public high school in OKC and I haven't had a discipline problem in 4 years. The kids are respectful every day. They are actually far more respectful than kids at the high school I attended. Their parents are grown, responsible adults. You are just old and grumpy. The old grumps of every generation say this about the last generation.

WOW. That is impressive. Not a single discipline problem in 4 years? Where do you teach?

I'm amazed how well you're still playing this forum, Thunder. You play your Dumb Thunder/Smart Thunder as well as any troll I've ever seen.

Folks -- he's a TROLL. He has written incredibly sharp posts with perfect grammar and obvious intelligence and then - in a flash - he'll go back to the dumb acting, paranoid, strange, conspiracy buff, end-of-the-worlder, silly rumor mongering....the 'bizarre' Thunder. Classic trolling.

Remember the tornado activity was giving us "great national exposure" signature?
Remember the 2012 - we're all going to die signature?
There was a really off-the-wall signature about earthquakes.
I wish I had kept a list just for laughs and giggles.

He's having the time of his life playing OKCTalk.

People with IQs under 80 should be locked up, or at least have their Internet access taken away.

People with IQs under 80 should be locked up, or at least have their Internet access taken away.

But Thunder, that would only leave you and me left to post here. LOL

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents and everyone is writing a book."
-- Cicero. circa 100 BCE

Every generation always tends to think the successive generation is out of control, etc. Kids will be kids. Get over it.

Geez...what a tough crowd. :ohno: Maybe I was raised differently from the rest of you, in that I acted in a mature manner while out in public. If I acted up, I had another thing coming. I know kids will be kids, but if I ever saw my kids acting like that, I would beat their @#%$@!

Fossil is adding a full retail store with watches, clothing and handbags on the mall's lower level across from Banana Republic, said mall spokeswoman Mis Gaston.

Apricot Lane, a trendy women's retailer specializing in celebrity-branded merchandise and premium denim, will open on the upper level near the food court in a space being vacated by the Lucca Annex.
Apricot Lane is scheduled to open by Aug. 1 and Fossil by Sept. 1.
Read more: http://newsok.com/okcs-penn-square-mall-will-add-fossil-and-apricot-lane-boutique-stores/article/3573333#ixzz1O5HLIW9A

Yawn.... AX, or Diesel and I am interested.

While I agree, Fossil is so 90's, it's better than the kitchy local shops they are replacing.

I no longer wear a watch, but I was given a nice Fossil a while back by some parents after serving our pack for many years. Somehow it seems even more appropriate for me to be connected to a Fossil now than it did then.

While I agree, Fossil is so 90's, it's better than the kitchy local shops they are replacing.

Everyone wants local unless it's at a mall. Strange, but true - me included!

Good watches,used to be very popular when I was in High school but never even thought of Fossil again until this thread popped up!

Love it! Fossil has great shoes. If it does well, perhaps they'll decide to put in an outlet store later.

Fossil has decent bags- not as expensive as LV or Coach obviously, but well constructed and a good selection. Of course, you can get them at any department store or Zappos...

It's definitely an improvement over what's there now, that hideous Nue Trendz store. And this will be one of Fossil's flagship stores.

They also have planned a two level flagship XXI Forever store, but haven't had the space. That may soon change. Read on....

On a different note, I have been in contact with the mall manager, and they are currently in talks to expand the mall. One proposed expansion plan included a plan that was presented here and that I submitted to mall management.

The image is shown below:
881

Very interesting. Cool to see some names there that 'couldn't possibly happen' in okc...

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

New parking garages are going to be a must if they ever expand anything though. That place isn't super friendly to park at on a weekend, much less near a holiday. And when they filled up the outparcels, it got even worse. I'm curious if the infrastructure of the building would allow for a 3rd level?

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

New parking garages are going to be a must if they ever expand anything though. That place isn't super friendly to park at on a weekend, much less near a holiday. And when they filled up the outparcels, it got even worse. I'm curious if the infrastructure of the building would allow for a 3rd level?

Nothing, but some associate price with quality and elite status.

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

Quality of brands. You aren't going to get Burberry, Diesel, or True Religion (for example) at a JcPenney, but you can at a Nordstrom.

While this is not official, I tend to view the department stores as follows:
Tier 1: Sears
Tier 2: JcPenney and Kohls
Tier 3: Lower end Macy's and Dillards, Lord and Taylor
Tier 4: Mid-level Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales
Tier 5: High-end Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Barney's, Saks Fifth Avenue

Bomber, it could be outward expansion, not upward.

Quality of brands. You aren't going to get Burberry, Diesel, or True Religion (for example) at a JcPenney, but you can at a Nordstrom.

While this is not official, I tend to view the department stores as follows:
Tier 1: Sears
Tier 2: JcPenney and Kohls
Tier 3: Lower end Macy's and Dillards, Lord and Taylor
Tier 4: Mid-level Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales
Tier 5: High-end Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Barney's, Saks Fifth Avenue

Even the nicest Macy's are still pretty much like Dillard's, and most of them are not even as nice. The Penn Square Dillard's is much nicer than the Macy's IMO. I would put Bloomingdales and Barney's on the highest level just because they are not in very many cities, while most large cities have either a Saks, Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus, or all three.

Even the nicest Macy's are still pretty much like Dillard's, and most of them are not even as nice. The Penn Square Dillard's is much nicer than the Macy's IMO. I would put Bloomingdales and Barney's on the highest level just because they are not in very many cities, while most large cities have either a Saks, Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus, or all three.

Fair enough. Regardless, the quality of products contained at a Nordstrom, Saks or Bloomingdales is much different than that at JcPenney.

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

New parking garages are going to be a must if they ever expand anything though. That place isn't super friendly to park at on a weekend, much less near a holiday. And when they filled up the outparcels, it got even worse. I'm curious if the infrastructure of the building would allow for a 3rd level?

No, the infrastructure will not support a 3rd level. Look at the picture I attacked. Plans are to expand the mall outward. And the parking problem at Penn Square is the same as the parking problem in Bricktown: it's all perception. There's plenty of parking at the mall. I always go straight ot the garage in the back, and I never have a problem. The folks having problems are those trying to get a close parking space in the front of the mall.

Nordstrom doesn't even compare to what's currently offered at Penn Square or any other center in the city. The clothes at Nordstrom are far superior in quality, materials, workmanship, etc. than clothes sold at Dillards. And, you can't even compare a Nordstrom to a JC Peney or Kohls, much less a Dillards. They're in completely different leagues. JC Penney and Kohls sell cheap, low to mid level clothing. They're only a step above Wal-Mart/Target.

Nothing, but some associate price with quality and elite status.

Well for the most part, with men's clothes, you do get what you pay for. No way you can even begin to compare a Polo Ralph Lauren shirt from Dillards to a Croft and Barrow shirt from Kohls or a Stafford shirt from JC Penney. I wear business clothes every day, and I used to buy stuff from JC Penney and Kohls, but I'd only have to replace it after a few times of wearing and washing. I'm now buying clothes from Brooks Brothers, Dillards, Macy's, Nordstrom, Jos A. Bank, etc. and those clothes are far superior in quality and workmanship. No comparison.

Quality of brands. You aren't going to get Burberry, Diesel, or True Religion (for example) at a JcPenney, but you can at a Nordstrom.

While this is not official, I tend to view the department stores as follows:
Tier 1: Sears
Tier 2: JcPenney and Kohls
Tier 3: Lower end Macy's and Dillards, Lord and Taylor
Tier 4: Mid-level Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales
Tier 5: High-end Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Barney's, Saks Fifth Avenue

Yeah, I completely agree with your tier system. If it wasn't for Lands End holding them up, Sears would be nothing more than an over-priced Target or Wal-Mart. Their clothes are about on the same level. And JC Penney and Kohls are pretty fairly even. They cater more to the working class, lower to mid middle class.

And Macy's stores do vary depending on the store. The Oklahoma stores are more tier 3, but stores in New york City, LA, etc. obviously fall into Tier 5.