Spartan, you must be off your game if a spelling error is the best you can come back with. I actually spelled it with aid at first, but then thought it looked wrong. Since I have never drank the koolaid it is no wonder I don't know how to spell it and since you have consumed a bunch of it I consider you to be an expert at spelling koolaid.

Popsy, you know me better than that to suggest I'm regurgitating anything other than my own ideas. As for your regurgitation, I have no idea what that is. There's drinking the koolaid, and then there's standing in the corner refusing to get along. Whatever happened to just being a mildly reasonable adult capable of a discussion? The internets are crazy.

Spartan,

Are you suggesting that since I see OKC differently than the urbanists I should keep it to myself so we could just get along. If so, I will if you will. Deal?

Showing more willingness to converse and talk would seem like just as good an option to me. Not saying you should pipe down at all. Just keep in mind that most of us on here have been for years talking about the exact same issues we're talking about right now. All of our opinions have evolved..I can even give specific examples where my opinions on a lot of things have made a complete 180 since I became steeped in urban terminology.

I remember heated arguments over Overholser Green, which I was pro-OG. I remember arguments over upscale downtown housing. I remember arguments over transit, and I used to be anti-transit, and so on. Popsy, don't think that any of us just came out of the womb arguing for streetcar. It's a point of view that, for a lot of us, took some thinking and debating to arrive at.

Realistically, you're either pro-transit or anti-transit. That is the first step. Do you embrace transit in its entirety, in all its forms, or do you oppose it? Pete White is closer to the position of Meg Salyer and Sam Bowman, rather than Brian Walters despite that Walters and White are the only two that have spoken out against streetcar. Pete supports transit, just doesn't see the big picture. But for all intents and purposes, you have to first decide if you're pro or anti on transit. If you're against transit, need go no further. Just recognize that the majority of the community has decided to proceed with transit, and let the debate go on. But if you are pro-transit and want to have a say in how we build a transit system, practical decisions must be made about how to embark on that.

If people do not want to be in on making practical, realistic decisions on transit, they need to just follow the example of Brian Walters who literally lays his head down (right in the middle of council meetings) anytime streetcar and/or transit is brought up. Although my personal opinion is that Walters needs to pretend to nap more, because it's really annoying when he talks about how your car is your freedom and building streetcars is the government taking people's freedom away blah blah blah. And also because it's great anytime Walters makes a fool out of himself with some stunt.

I personally agree with Spartan. The trolleys have no easily discernable route, they have no easily discernable stops and they arrive at no discernable time. Any one of those problems could sink a transit system, all three doom it, IMO. Since we have an existing system that is dysfunctional, one cannot extrapolate how the public would deal with a functional one, based on prior experience.

There is data from other cities showing both significant increases in ridership, as well as extremely significant transit-oriented development. The streetcars, if the route is designed properly, will have an easily discernable route. The fact that there will be tracks in the ground helps as well, and hopefully we will have superior signage. Trains will arrive frequently and reliably. If we design a route that takes people places they want to go, ridership will be through the roof. We might put the Black Pearl out of business, but not the Iguana. Especially considering our unreliable weather, the option of even going a few blocks at times of extreme heat or cold will make the prospect of going somewhere other than the mall an attractive one. At some point in time, hopefully, you will be able to arrive on a train from Edmond or Norman and take the streetcar around downtown.

I agree about the Trolleys. And agree that it has to go where people want to go, not just close. Not an attempt to argue the post but it did raise some questions for me.

1) Obviously the dedicated route/stops solves two of the failings of Buses/Streetcars (afterwords referred to B/S). What about Streetcars solves the timing issue? Unless they are automated and it leaves every _____ minutes, they are still running though traffic that can cause delays etc?

2) "Trains will arrive frequently and reliably". Besides the traffic issue mentioned above, aren't the same folks that are running the buses and the failed Trolleys going to be running the streetcars?

3) "(H)opefully we will have superior signage." Might this solve some of the problems with the failed B/S? Also hope the signage isn't along the lines of the quarter of a million spent on signage (and website) just inside the Civic Center! At least with it it seemed to be paid for with private donations and not public money.

4) Granted some businesses may be hurt and others will be helped by the Streetcar but a business can relocate along a Streetcar line/near a stop. Same as if some other reason lead to a drop in business. Resolve the particular cause (location, service, quality etc).

Larry, the Black Pearl is the ancient bus (with groaning transmission) that the Iguana Grill uses to take people to the Ford Center for Thunder games. I was trying to be funny, although perhaps did not succeed. All the businesses in the CBD survive somehow right now without any means to transport people to them, and I doubt (hope not, anyway) a streetcar will negatively affect their business.

I'll let Urban Pioneer answer your timing questions. And, I believe the signs will be paid for with existing streetcar funds in MAPS.

Betts:

Sorry, thought it was a restaurant, thanks for the clarification...LOL

I agree about the Trolleys. And agree that it has to go where people want to go, not just close. Not an attempt to argue the post but it did raise some questions for me.

1) Obviously the dedicated route/stops solves two of the failings of Buses/Streetcars (afterwords referred to B/S). What about Streetcars solves the timing issue? Unless they are automated and it leaves every _____ minutes, they are still running though traffic that can cause delays etc?

2) "Trains will arrive frequently and reliably". Besides the traffic issue mentioned above, aren't the same folks that are running the buses and the failed Trolleys going to be running the streetcars?

3) "(H)opefully we will have superior signage." Might this solve some of the problems with the failed B/S? Also hope the signage isn't along the lines of the quarter of a million spent on signage (and website) just inside the Civic Center! At least with it it seemed to be paid for with private donations and not public money.

4) Granted some businesses may be hurt and others will be helped by the Streetcar but a business can relocate along a Streetcar line/near a stop. Same as if some other reason lead to a drop in business. Resolve the particular cause (location, service, quality etc).

what will/should solve the timing issue (it would work for the bus system as well) are gps tracked trolleys and digital time countdowns at all the stops that let you know to the min/sec when the next trolly is going to arive at your stop.

what will/should solve the timing issue (it would work for the bus system as well) are gps tracked trolleys and digital time countdowns at all the stops that let you know to the min/sec when the next trolly is going to arive at your stop.

Not only that bouldersooner but streetcars can be (and are) equiped with a priority over-ride system for stop lights. If the streetcar driver is so inclined, he would never have to stop. He would just turn all his lights green as he gets to them. Also, in several cities there are Apple Aps and Android Apps for cell phone and tablets that let you see real time info on the location of the streetcars. You don't even need to wait at the stop; just check your phone and get to the stop a few seconds before the streetcar does. As for service time, if they go with a system like I proposed on the regular streetcar thread service times downtown will be very frequent (about every 3 to 5 minutes through all of downtown). This is because I made all of downtown a common spine that all streetcars follow.

Seattle Streetcar Real Time
http://www.nextbus.com/googleMap/googleMap.jsp?a=seattle-sc&r=southlakeunion&d=2lakeunion&s=westdenn

Portland Streetcar Real Time
http://www.nextbus.com/predictor/publicMap.shtml?a=portsc