I assume most of everyone on this particular board is on here because they love downtown OKC or are at least highly interested in it. So, question #1: do you already live downtown, and question #2: if you don't, why not?

Yes, I live DT

1: No

2: Expensive and no easy access to good grocery stores, traditional retail and safe gas stations.

Of course, this also depends on what your definition of "Downtown" is. I know people who live near Big Truck Tacos and consider themselves "living downtown."

(That said, we've finally saved enough cash that we plan to put our home on the market in the spring and buy something very near downtown)

Because I live in 10 miles south of Seminole, I love downtown, but I like the quiet and safety of the country.

Not downtown but a straight shot to the north - NW 30 something. NW 15th is about as close as I would probably ever get. Is Mesta Park downtown? I really don't know anymore. According to Metro, midtown is downtown, but probably only the part he lives in.

#1 I do not live downtown
#2 Because I prefer the suburban lifestyle - a large yard my kids and I can play in, a garden I could feed the whole neighborhood with, ample space between myself and neighbors (who live neither on top of me nor below me), a quiet neighborhood that I feel safe letting my kids run wild in, and (with clear weather) a stunning view of the stars at night.

Not downtown but a straight shot to the north - NW 30 something. NW 15th is about as close as I would probably ever get. Is Mesta Park downtown? I really don't know anymore. According to Metro, midtown is downtown, but probably only the part he lives in.
Downtown is usually defined as NW 13th to the north, and Classen to the west, therefore, I'm in the part of Midtown that is DT.

I live downtown. So, I'll post the alternative answer. The reason I live downtown is that I was exhausted trying to make my yard look as nice as I wanted it to, and it didn't feel right hiring someone to do the garden I purportedly loved (not to mention the prohibitive cost in doing so). I got tired of driving my car to do anything (I drove farther from my old house to the grocery store than I do now). I wanted to do something new and different and wanted to be close to the things I was interested in (art museums, galleries, sporting events, restaurants). The amount of money I save annually in utilities, lawn maintenance, pool maintenance, insurance and taxes by moving actually pays the mortgage for my home downtown. I love looking out my balcony at the cityscape. I wanted to do something individually that helped make my city more attractive to other people thinking about living downtown (on the principle that I could best promote downtown living by doing it myself).

I will say, also, that I feel as safe or safer getting gas where I do downtown than I did getting it on Wilshire or Western and we will get a grocery store downtown, but it's really, really not very far to the Homeland on 17th and Classen. I tie it in to a stop by Prairie Thunder Bakery for better baked goods than I can get anywhere else in town.

I live around 50th and Western. I would love to live downtown, but it's just too expensive relative to what I get. I own my own home with a backyard, and for what I pay, I couldn't even buy downtown without downgrading my space to about a large studio apartment. My dog wouldn't like that.

And the sad thing is: as long as there is great affordable housing around downtown (I work downtown) I just simply can't imagine dropping the extra cash to live downtown. I'd rent for cheaper before I bought.

I pay about $85/sq foot where I am. With a yard, driveway, garage, etc. A comparable space at Block 42 is 3X the cost of what I paid.


Let's say you want to live at The Hill. $346,500 for 1650 sq. ft. Do you know what $350k can buy you a 5 minute drive away from downtown?!?!

I don't live in OKC but given the choice I would. I would prefer downtown (or at least what I call the urban core - Heritage Hills/Mesta Park). The wife is not keen on the idea even though she always raves about her sister who lives in downtown Chicago and can walk to everything. For some reason she can't put two and two together. As for a grocery store - we currently drive 3.6 miles to our nearest grocery store here in suburban Jax. However, I am surprised the urban core doesn't have better and larger grocery store than the one Homeland (liquor laws keep it from being better?).

One caveat to mine - I would live downtown if I could afford one of the brownstones, which are imo the best value downtown and really frickin cool.

I work downtown and I plan on moving downtown next year when my daughter goes off to college. my company pays for parking, so I don't have to worry about that. I would really enjoy being able to walk to work, and I don't need a lot of space for just myself. there are also some nice remodeled apartments in heritage hills that I would consider.

I can definitely see the appeal of living DT for young, unattached people or empty nesters (especially if you work nearby), but not for those raising a family.

I'm priced out of the DT market, but I found a great place in the Plaza District. And I'm raising a family here.

I have two kids and see no problem raising them downtown. Why do you think it would be an issue? Of course, it could depend on the definition of 'downtown'. My nephew was raised in an apartment complex in Norman, what's the difference?

I've been in and around downtown for over 16 years for one reason or another and lived downtown for several years before getting married (lived at the Regency, Sycamore Square, Condos at 7th and Classen, etc.). I personally feel comfortable in the roughest parts of town and have never had a problem. But, I do want an area where my wife feels comfortable to get out of her car to get gas and buy groceries.

The cost is probably the biggest reason we give pause to a move. We will relocate to Heritage Hills, Mesta Park, Putnam Heights, etc. We won't do a rental or a condo. We have friends that put down literally a million dollars on their Deep Deuce condo and they love the lifestyle. Yet their million dollar 'home' has immediate neighbors on both sides and below them. Not to mention they have the most expensive condo in the building and are surrounded by units priced around $250K and have already been bought and turned into rentals! No thanks you. I can buy a small mansion in Heritage Hills or Putnam Heights with a yard, more square footage, etc.

We've budgeted $300-$400K for a home, but its hard to justify it when we only paid $38 square foot for the home we have now. Its small (1,558 sq feet) and has no exterior character but has a two car garage, brick pool house, in ground pool, huge living room, 475 sq feet of covered patio and is newly remodeled with granite kitchen, tile bathrooms and wood floors.

You know, a lot of people worry about density, and what we need to build next, etc. etc. We have a major economic reality about people living downtown: it costs too much RELATIVE to what's available in very close proximity. Until that changes, you won't have just a huge amount of people moving downtown except those with money to burn. That doesn't achieve density.

We've budgeted $300-$400K for a home, but its hard to justify it when we only paid $38 square foot for the home we have now. Its small (1,558 sq feet) and has no exterior character but has a two car garage, brick pool house, in ground pool, huge living room, 475 sq feet of covered patio and is newly remodeled with granite kitchen, tile bathrooms and wood floors.

Good lord, what part of town are you in, because I'm moving in next door!

1) no
2) I just moved in Edgemere Park and that's the closest I think I will get
3) last year I was looking to move downtown but the prices for what you get in an unestablished area were way too high. Now when the maywood area and aloft are done and the area becomes more stable with retail and some sort of market, it will finally be established.
4) I don't believe in rent because at the end of the term you have nothing to show for it, but since I was probably only going to be down there for max 2-3 years, I think if the maywood lofts as rentals would do really well and would have been something I would have been interested in.

Good lord, what part of town are you in, because I'm moving in next door!

Where we live (SE 44 & Sunnylane) is most likely more dangerous than anywhere in or near downtown. But, when we bought it in 1998 it was mostly just a neighborhood (Parkview) of retired people and blue collar types raising their families. Our son could walk or ride his bike to school and everything was quite. I was also previously paying almost double in rent to live downtown at Sycamore Square than our $500/month house payment. The house is worth double what we paid, so it made good financial sense and we are both very low maintenance people that don't try to keep up with the Jones'.

However, in recent years our cul-de-sac has seen most of the original homeowners deceased, 65% of the homes on our street broken into in the last 5 years, we've had two investigated drive-by shootings at the end of our street (both targeting a felon who is now back in prison) and 3 homes on the street were made into section 8 housing. The surrounding gas stations are just hangout spots for hoodlums, and don't even get me started on the WalMart at I40 and Sooner. Our Homeland though isn't bad at SE 29 and Sunnylane.

I'm hoping for the smallest home on the nicest street near downtown's core.

The Shell on Broadway and whatever gas station is on Reno across from Bass Pro feel perfectly safe, no matter when I'm there. And, there's a gas only station on 4th between Walnut and Broadway that is wonderfully convenient. I'm out with my puppy at 4 a.m. just across the street from it and, while I do look around before I go outside, I did the same thing in my old neighborhood, which was considered terribly safe. I don't lock my car doors, as that's a good way to get broken windows, and have actually forgot my purse and my keys in it overnight on two separate occasions, came out and found them and my car still there. In Nichols Hills both times I left my purse in my car by accident, my car windows were broken and my purse was stolen. There are people wandering through Nichols Hills at all hours, looking in cars and probably testing doors. I know several people who left their keys in the console of their cars in NH and had their car stolen. So safety is a perception that is not always accurate.

No - I live in the 'burbs near where I grew up. It's close to friends, work, shopping, and almost everything I do. I like the green space and open areas. Now if I were younger and single, I'd be in the CBD or Midtown in a heartbeat!

I have two kids and see no problem raising them downtown. Why do you think it would be an issue? Of course, it could depend on the definition of 'downtown'. My nephew was raised in an apartment complex in Norman, what's the difference?

My definition of living downtown is living in a condo or apartment in the core of downtown, which may not be the same as what you are referring to. Here is my perception of downtown living for a kid: gritty, concrete-jungle environment, no backyard (a public park is NOT a substitute for your own, private play space), close proximity to traffic, etc. If that's what you like, that's great. But for me, I'd rather not raise my kids in that sort of environment.

For what it's worth, I wouldnt want to raise my kids in an apartment complex either. I lived in them for a few years as a child and hated it.

For what it's worth, I wouldnt want to raise my kids in an apartment complex either. I lived in them for a few years as a child and hated it.

I agree. Coming from a single parent home I stayed alot with my grandmother and she lived at and was the manager of an apartment complex in Edmond ('East of Eden' - just East of the hospital). I hated staying there and couldn't imagine being raised in an apartment complex. My wife had the same issue and even though she was a single mom she moved from her apartment into a house before her son turned 2.

But in places like NYC, etc. it seems that sort of home life is normal. Just doesn't work for me if there are any other options.

I agree. Coming from a single parent home I stayed alot with my grandmother and she lived at and was the manager of an apartment complex in Edmond ('East of Eden' - just East of the hospital). I hated staying there and couldn't imagine being raised in an apartment complex. My wife had the same issue and even though she was a single mom she moved from her apartment into a house before her son turned 2.

But in places like NYC, etc. it seems that sort of home life is normal. Just doesn't work for me if there are any other options.

Totally. First time I was in NYC, I went down to the subway. It was about what I thought- loud, somehwat dirty, and somewhat smelly. Imagine this Okie's surprise when he hops on with his other late-20s buddy to see a gaggle of young school children taking the subway amongst all the adults. It's just different there.

So let me get this straight. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to shop. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to buy groceries. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to work. And I am paying $200/sq foot? Explain why this seems like a cost effective solution. I will stay a couple miles straight north of downtown thank you very much.

I assume most of everyone on this particular board is on here because they love downtown OKC or are at least highly interested in it. So, question #1: do you already live downtown, and question #2: if you don't, why not?

You know what people say about assuming?

1. No
2. Why would I? I can't think of a compelling reason either under present circumstances.

eta:But in all fairness, I am highly interested in downtown.

So let me get this straight. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to shop. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to buy groceries. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to work. And I am paying $200/sq foot? Explain why this seems like a cost effective solution. I will stay a couple miles straight north of downtown thank you very much.

In all honesty though, it really doesn't matter where you live in or around OKC, you can get to shopping, groceries, etc. within a 5-10 minute drive. If you must live closer to a WalMart, Target, Mall, etc. than 5-10 minutes then that's a whole new issue.

I just wish more people would spend time in places like Austin and see where small, older homes can be very nice for living and raising a family. Other than the inflated housing costs in Austin, I love that entire neighborhoods people here would consider 'ghettos' are actually very nice homes.

So let me get this straight. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to shop. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to buy groceries. I have to drive OUT OF downtown to work. And I am paying $200/sq foot? Explain why this seems like a cost effective solution. I will stay a couple miles straight north of downtown thank you very much.

You also have to drive out of your suburban home to do all those things, but there are many things you do NOT have to drive to if you live downtown. In the suburbs you have to drive to EVERYTHING.

I live in "downtown" if you consider midtown downtown. I am extremely happy renting there, but then again, I am young and living on my own. I love living in a small space (which is quite different from most). I used to have a 3 bedroom house in Edmond, but I would rather rent a studio in midtown. But that's just me.

For what it's worth, I believe the future of urban living in OKC will be concentrated in the smaller urban "villages" spread throughout the city (i.e. Paseo, Plaza District, Western Ave, Meadowbrook Acres). These neighborhoods offer charm and a diverse mix of retail and grocery options. They also have a good mix of people from a variety of socioeconomic backgrounds. There are also some new urban developments coming to the suburbs in the form of walkable master-planned communities. Downtown is great, but some perceive downtown to be more business and entertainment oriented, rather than a place for real people to live.

I think the Maywood Park brownstones are awesome and the view is amazing...but I would not want to live DT due to the noise and fumes. My dream is 10 acres out in the sticks someday.

You also have to drive out of your suburban home to do all those things, but there are many things you do NOT have to drive to if you live downtown. In the suburbs you have to drive to EVERYTHING.


but there are many things you do NOT have to drive to if you live downtown.

Other than the ford center or similar centers, and the legal places like city hall, I can't think of a thing that I'm not as close or closer to than I would be if I lived downtown.

I have a handful of restaurants, shopping, mailing, schools, my work, bus stop etc within a half mile of my house. I drive most of the time and it's easy. If I lived downtown I wouldn't have half of that and I'd walk because parking is a PITA and costly. My loss, in that respect, I could use the exercise, but except for driving to entertainment options, I do have more choices.

Other than the ford center or similar centers, and the legal places like city hall, I can't think of a thing that I'm not as close or closer to than I would be if I lived downtown.

I have a handful of restaurants, shopping, mailing, schools, my work, bus stop etc within a half mile of my house. I drive most of the time and it's easy. If I lived downtown I wouldn't have half of that and I'd walk because parking is a PITA and costly. My loss, in that respect, I could use the exercise, but except for driving to entertainment options, I do have more choices.

Then it sounds like you should stay in the suburbs. Urban living isn't for everyone (or hardly anyone in OKC). Next.

Then it sounds like you should stay in the suburbs. Urban living isn't for everyone (or hardly anyone in OKC). Next.

I plan on it, until I move to a warmer climate, then I might consider a vacation condo downtown so I can have a place to stay in OKC while visiting family and friends. Of course they would hate that, because most of them live in the burbs.

I assume most of everyone on this particular board is on here because they love downtown OKC or are at least highly interested in it. So, question #1: do you already live downtown, and question #2: if you don't, why not?

#1) No, I do not live downtown, I live close to 23rd street.
#2) I like old homes and historical neighborhoods.

Why does it always seem the discussion is the choice for either downtown living or suburban living?

What about living in the inner city neighborhoods?

You also have to drive out of your suburban home to do all those things, but there are many things you do NOT have to drive to if you live downtown. In the suburbs you have to drive to EVERYTHING.

LOL, it depends on where you live, but in many cases, you don't have to drive if you don't want to. I can walk to three restaurants, a couple fast food establishments, two grocery stores, a coffee shop, a liquor store, two bars, a bank, a couple convenience stores, a gym, a donut shop (ironically right next to each other), a video rental place, a mechanic, an elementary school, a middle school, a high school, a tag agency, a post office, several churches (one of which is also my voting location), two car washes, two vets, a dentist office, a clinic, a pharmacy, and a variety of other little shops that change from time to time. They are all within an easy walk or an easier bike ride of my house. About the only thing I can think of that's downtown that I don't have walking-distance access to are my work, sporting arenas (thank goodness!), a movie theater and a bus station, most of which I wouldn't want near my home anyway. When the weather is good, many people walk the area, or ride a bike, but most of us drive for convenience reasons.

1. No, I don't.
2. Prices are stupid high.

I would prefer to live in a small condo than a house in the burbs. I bought a house in Sept of '09 to take advantage of the $8,000 tax credit. I would have bought downtown if they had anything available under $150,000. Granted, there were about two condos available for $127,000 in the Lofts on 2nd street, but I didn't buy them because the layout was horrific.

I lived in Regency Tower in a one bedroom 550sf apartment and loved the layout, I would have paid $125,000 for that...but $125,000 for a 600sf with that horrendous layout was ridiculous.

I don't live downtown, but I just live up the road in Jefferson Park and have outrageously low rent. I would *love* to live downtown if I could afford it.

#1) No, I do not live downtown, I live close to 23rd street.
#2) I like old homes and historical neighborhoods.

Why does it always seem the discussion is the choice for either downtown living or suburban living?

What about living in the inner city neighborhoods?

The argument as I see it is like northside/southside, OU/OSU, east coast/west coast, kind of thing, mostly. The inner city is flyover country. We didn't have this discussion until some people started spending lots of money to live downtown and then started making a big deal out of it. IMO.

As much as I enjoy working and playing downtown, I live in the burbs for primarily three reasons: 1) bang for your real-estate buck; 2) three dogs who need lots of room to romp and play; and 3) a spouse who is not the least into "fixer-upper" types of homes.

Suburban life doesn't keep me from enjoying the many food and entertainment offerings of downtown. Except for my commute (18 miles as opposed to my husband's 4), I'd say it's the best of both worlds.

That's the great thing about OKC. You can choose to live in Edmond, Moore, MWC, etc. and still get to downtown in 10-15 minutes to do whatever you want. One reason we've never been in a hurry to move downtown. We've spent the last 10 years saving for the move as we want a home not a financial burden.

In all honesty though, it really doesn't matter where you live in or around OKC, you can get to shopping, groceries, etc. within a 5-10 minute drive. If you must live closer to a WalMart, Target, Mall, etc. than 5-10 minutes then that's a whole new issue.

I just wish more people would spend time in places like Austin and see where small, older homes can be very nice for living and raising a family. Other than the inflated housing costs in Austin, I love that entire neighborhoods people here would consider 'ghettos' are actually very nice homes.

There are lots of nice neighborhoods in inner OKC with small homes. Many people, like myself, don't desire to have a big house or big yard and these types of homes are perfect. You are still in an older, established neighborhood and you can get to downtown and other parts of the city easily. I like fixing up old houses but some don't.

So, question #1: do you already live downtown, and question #2: if you don't, why not?

#1. No
#2. Spite

My reasons not to live DT are pretty much the same as everyone elses, relatively too expensive, not enough DT amenities and nearby retail, I have a dog, and you can get more bang for your buck by just going 1 mile outside of DT.

As someone stated, this doesnt have to be a DT vs suburbs thing. OKC has tons of good neighborhoods north of DT. They all have yards, there are nicer homes that you dont have to fix up and they are only a few minutes from DT. While filling up DT with more residents is great, OKC also needs people to move back into these neighborhoods. And speaking of traffic, if you live in the area east and south of I44, North of 23rd and west of Broadway Ext, you can pretty much never have to worry about traffic, no matter what direction you are going.

yes i live "downtown"

I assume most of everyone on this particular board is on here because they love downtown OKC or are at least highly interested in it. So, question #1: do you already live downtown, and question #2: if you don't, why not?Really, the forum, since I joined at least, has become increasingly downtown or politically oriented.

1. No.
2. Our regular daily places are within a 5 mile radius of our home.

I did live downtown for several years at Sycamore. Once I graduated from law school, I would have loved to move to a condo downtown. Unfortunately, the developers think they can provide an unlimited supply of property at $250-$350/sq. ft. and find buyers for it. They attempt to price our downtown real estate at or around Dallas prices. I'm bumfuzzled. Instead, I have property that's practically lakefront on Hefner, attached to the city's bike trails, a yard, a good floor plan, etc. at $90/sq. ft. I'm a 15-minute drive from work, but I have vastly superior retail near me. I should be downtown's target market--young, professional, decent income, no kids, involved in my community, etc.

I figure anyone who buys downtown right now doesn't really see money as an object. The current prices, in my estimation are not sustainable. If you look at your home as an investment (and at my age, unless you are living off of a trust fund, you have to), these homes are just awful investments.

I don't care about the grocery store thing. When we lived downtown, it was never a big deal. I love the atmosphere, all the stuff there is to do, the zero commute, but it's not worth the price tag.

I do laugh at a couple of my friends that live downtown (2 in Heritage Hills, 1 in Putnam Heights and 2 in Deep Deuce). They brag about living downtown and being able to "walk to everything". The reality though is other than the 2 in Deep Deuce who occasionally walk into Bricktown, they all still get in their car and drive to everything downtown. If you're going to drive anyway, then what's an extra 5-10 minutes and avoid the high cost of living. I think the wife and I will most likely bike to everything when we move. Or, maybe that 2-seater Segway will be available!

I did live downtown for several years at Sycamore. Once I graduated from law school, I would have loved to move to a condo downtown. Unfortunately, the developers think they can provide an unlimited supply of property at $250-$350/sq. ft. and find buyers for it. They attempt to price our downtown real estate at or around Dallas prices. I'm bumfuzzled. Instead, I have property that's practically lakefront on Hefner, attached to the city's bike trails, a yard, a good floor plan, etc. at $90/sq. ft. I'm a 15-minute drive from work, but I have vastly superior retail near me. I should be downtown's target market--young, professional, decent income, no kids, involved in my community, etc.

I figure anyone who buys downtown right now doesn't really see money as an object. The current prices, in my estimation are not sustainable. If you look at your home as an investment (and at my age, unless you are living off of a trust fund, you have to), these homes are just awful investments.

I don't care about the grocery store thing. When we lived downtown, it was never a big deal. I love the atmosphere, all the stuff there is to do, the zero commute, but it's not worth the price tag.

I feel like you read my mind and wrote it out perfectly. I grew up around Hefner, too. Also, the no grocery thing didn't really bother me a ton when I lived downtown either.

No and because it's too expensive and I get more square footage in The suburbs,and where is The closest grocery store from downtown?

Nope. My home is closer to my job.

I feel like you read my mind and wrote it out perfectly. I grew up around Hefner, too. Also, the no grocery thing didn't really bother me a ton when I lived downtown either.

My last post on the subject was read out loud at a ULI meeting I attended to kick off discussion on downtown development. The developers are aware of this issue, they just don't seem to care. I understand that they're entitled to reasonable margins on their investments, but c'mon. They're in many cases getting their land from OCURA, so land acquisition cost, usually a big impediment to downtown development, isn't even an issue. What they're doing is taking out big 'ol construction loans, building spec houses, pricing them in the stratosphere and sitting on them. I suppose that it's been a few years since some of those houses were started and they're still vacant, they need those outrageous margins just to break even (speculation on my part, but if it wasn't true, why on Earth haven't they backed down off of their prices?).

The grocery thing is just a silly excuse. I grew up in NE Edmond on an acreage, far away from any grocery store. It was definitely not a big deal there either.

I do laugh at a couple of my friends that live downtown (2 in Heritage Hills, 1 in Putnam Heights and 2 in Deep Deuce). They brag about living downtown and being able to "walk to everything". The reality though is other than the 2 in Deep Deuce who occasionally walk into Bricktown, they all still get in their car and drive to everything downtown. If you're going to drive anyway, then what's an extra 5-10 minutes and avoid the high cost of living. I think the wife and I will most likely bike to everything when we move. Or, maybe that 2-seater Segway will be available!

Ah, but once there's a streetcar, they will be able to walk to the streetcar and get everywhere. And my friends who live in Heritage Hills walk to Midtown to eat dinner frequently. But none of my friends in Nichols Hills walk to the Nichols Hills Plaza to eat at Saturn, Cool Greens or have coffee at Starbucks even though it's frequently just a few blocks. The kids do walk to the drugstore, but that's about it. Everyone in Deep Deuce walks, because I see them all the time, walking into Bricktown, up to Ninth Street, over to Sage, the Wedge or the Deep Deuce Grill. I frequently see a really big group of people walking into Bricktown or Deep Deuce from the Maywood Lofts. I'll be walking to the Thunder game tonight, as always. I do drive to the grocery store, but so does everyone I know who lives elsewhere in OKC, so it's not as if living downtown has created a hindrance to grocery shopping; it's just not extra-convenient.

Because I have a pool table and no place downtown can accommodate that and a living area and a dining area. Well, at least at a price I can afford. I could afford a smaller unit at Block 42 or something, but I wouldn't be able to have 2 bedrooms and a living area big enough to accommodate a pool table as well. I live in west Edmond now with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 car garage, and a living room big enough that I have my pool table at one end and a couch, chairs, tables, and entertainment center at the other (with plenty of room).

I would love to be able to afford a big enough place downtown, though.

I assume most of everyone on this particular board is on here because they love downtown OKC or are at least highly interested in it. So, question #1: do you already live downtown, and question #2: if you don't, why not?

I'm not on here for reasons related to DT. I am surprised someone would assume that.

But as to no grocery stores DT, I don't see that as too big a deal. Most of us buy more than we want to haul on foot, anyway. My favorite thing is sitting out under the stars in the quiet with my dogs and a glass of wine. Not everyone wants that but for those that do, DT isn't even an option.

I have friends who live downtown and they seem to enjoy it, like most things going to the grocery store really isnt terribly far out of the way and most of them do it on their way home from work.

I personally dont live downtown because i like a slower pace of life when i get home, space for our dogs, and the peace and quite when we go outside. But i will say there are some downfalls to living this far out, i rarely see my neighbors and there isnt an overwhelming sense of community because everyone locks themselves inside their house when they arent doing yard work. Besides that im getting to the age where i dont have strong desire to go out and have $100 dollar bar tabs and not remember anything from the night before.

Plus being married nothing great ever comes from going out with or without your wife and being surrounded by single people. Just setting yourself up for a bad situation.

My last post on the subject was read out loud at a ULI meeting I attended to kick off discussion on downtown development. The developers are aware of this issue, they just don't seem to care. I understand that they're entitled to reasonable margins on their investments, but c'mon. They're in many cases getting their land from OCURA, so land acquisition cost, usually a big impediment to downtown development, isn't even an issue. What they're doing is taking out big 'ol construction loans, building spec houses, pricing them in the stratosphere and sitting on them. I suppose that it's been a few years since some of those houses were started and they're still vacant, they need those outrageous margins just to break even (speculation on my part, but if it wasn't true, why on Earth haven't they backed down off of their prices?).
Mainly because that is what developers do in other markets and even in other parts of town, none of them want to build "starter homes" in the burbs either. The thinking is there is enough existing housing stock to move "down market" when the new, higher end stock comes online. While that works in the typical suburban housing market since there is no "existing stock" in Downtown OKC that market transition for existing properties does not occur. Also, since everything is financed and for the most part those doing the financing are out of state they don't seem to understand that OKC is a bit of a different market for urban housing. That may also be a reason why the high end is all that gets built, those financing the construction are demanding it.


The grocery thing is just a silly excuse. I grew up in NE Edmond on an acreage, far away from any grocery store. It was definitely not a big deal there either.
Even in the burbs or "inner city" it is pretty much happenstance if you are able to walk to a grocery store, those days are long since gone. Since the grocery business has gone to a large format type of store the "neighborhood store" has gone away. That happened in my parents neighborhood while I was still living there, the Safeway at NW 16th & Meridian closed in the early 70's, replaced by the larger one at NW 23rd & Ann Arbor. 10-M at NW 10th & Meridian closed in the early 80's. It just seems there are greater distances between stores now than long ago and the "neighborhood store" is now a high priced convenience store that most people wouldn't want to shop in. It is an overblown issue for Downtown OKC even in comparison to other markets.

The Whole Foods in Downtown Austin is on the west side of downtown and many of the new residential properties (both condo and rental) are on the east side of downtown so it is still a pretty long hike to WF. Most that I know also head out to one of the HEB stores in the near downtown neighborhoods (in their car) to do the bulk of their grocery shopping.

In one of the proposals for the Deep Deuce development there was a grocery and pharmacy proposed but they chose the out-of-state development money from Dallas rather the local designer/developer.

I'm not on here for reasons related to DT. I am surprised someone would assume that.

But as to no grocery stores DT, I don't see that as too big a deal. Most of us buy more than we want to haul on foot, anyway. My favorite thing is sitting out under the stars in the quiet with my dogs and a glass of wine. Not everyone wants that but for those that do, DT isn't even an option.

I'll second that, PQ! I joined this forum because I believed issues of importance to Oklahoma City--ALL of it, not just downtown--would be the focus. DT OKC is just creepy to me; always has been. I think it's a borderline claustrophobic reaction for me. Tall buildings create a strobe-like effect with lights and shadows and often kick off migraines for me--and it doesn't matter which big city I'm in.

Just like some folks don't enjoy the "loneliness" of the country, others of us don't want the congestion of a downtown. Being in the 'burbs solves both problems.

Old Okie, now that you mention it, I understand what you are saying. I never thought it through but the strobe effect of the light behind the buildings sometimes makes my migraine prone brain cringe, too.

We are within the city limits but it is more semi rural than suburban. Which I love. One thing I notice is that we are just far enough out that we all make a point of knowing our neighbors - kind of like farmers. We know we will need to depend on each other if the power goes out, if someone had a medical emergency or there is a grass fire, for example. Plus, people who live in this type of neighborhood have a lot in common with each other - we aren't ending up here by default. You can count on the guys enjoying either a shop (wood working, machine or just tinkering), someone in the family enjoys lawnwork and just about everyone loves their dogs. A number of us have livestock. As far as locking the doors and not looking out, it isn't like that. The lifestyle attacts people who like to be outside and even though we aren't elbow to elbow, we wave to each other, talk over the fence (because we have lots in common) and check on everyone in bad weather. We know when people are gone, pick up mail and the paper, even knock out the lawn if someone is on vacation. But everyone respects everyone's privacy. A group of the retired guys in the neighborhood meet for breakfast once a week. It's nice. I wouldn't trade it for anything.