View Full Version : I-235 / I-44 Interchange



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Snowman
03-05-2013, 05:54 PM
any idea if those projects will be "moved up" as well

Your guess on the federal and state budgets over the next five years is probably as good as anyone elses

Buffalo Bill
03-06-2013, 08:27 AM
any idea if those projects will be "moved up" as well

It's possible. It mostly depends on available funds and program balancing.

Plutonic Panda
03-06-2013, 09:07 AM
and maybe change those two cloverleafs to fly-overs ;)

HangryHippo
03-06-2013, 10:14 AM
and maybe change those two cloverleafs to fly-overs ;)

Man, you and I really, really want to see some Texas (or any other state) style interchanges here.

Plutonic Panda
03-06-2013, 12:01 PM
3431 The High-Five would be the sh**. I this cost around 250mil. It would be nice to see something similar to this. I doubt seeing it happen though. We also don't have the express toll ways that Dallas has going through the interchange.

Dar405301
03-10-2013, 03:59 PM
i think the main reason that we have to wait for these large projects to be built out is that we're not allowed to borrow money for road construction. we have a pay-as-you-go system.

OKCisOK4me
03-10-2013, 09:09 PM
i think the main reason that we have to wait for these large projects to be built out is that we're not allowed to borrow money for road construction. we have a pay-as-you-go system.

That is correct. We don't do it like Texas.

Teo9969
03-10-2013, 11:07 PM
i think the main reason that we have to wait for these large projects to be built out is that we're not allowed to borrow money for road construction. we have a pay-as-you-go system.

Which tells me we're doing pretty dang well if we thought we weren't going to start the next phase until 2017 and it's only 2013!

Richard at Remax
03-11-2013, 08:58 AM
I would be really interested in seeing how much it would be to take out bonds + interest to get it done VS pay as you go with the natural rise of construction costs in 2017 and beyond. If that makes any sense.

HangryHippo
03-11-2013, 09:12 AM
Is there really that much political animosity toward selling bonds at what are still incredibly low rates and getting our interchanges and highways up to snuff and then paying them off quickly?

Edit: who am I kidding? It's Oklahoma...

Plutonic Panda
03-11-2013, 03:36 PM
^^^^ Like

bchris02
03-14-2013, 09:53 PM
Why does every road construction project in Oklahoma take so long? A decade to widen I-35 from Norman to I-240? Now its going to be a decade to rebuild the I-235/I-44 interchange?

Other states are able to get much larger projects done in much less time.

OKCisOK4me
03-14-2013, 10:14 PM
How many times do we have to explain it?

ljbab728
03-14-2013, 10:18 PM
How many times do we have to explain it?

Get's kinda frustrating, doesn't it. LOL

Plutonic Panda
03-14-2013, 10:39 PM
How many times do we have to explain it?I thought the same thing.


Why does every road construction project in Oklahoma take so long? A decade to widen I-35 from Norman to I-240? Now its going to be a decade to rebuild the I-235/I-44 interchange?

Other states are able to get much larger projects done in much less time.It has to do with the way Oklahoma funds it highways. You can't borrow money like Texas does and have 3 different multi billion dollar highway projects going on at the same time in Dallas. I wish Oklahoma would allow for that, but on the other hand, it is more responsible to do it the way we do it. I think they should have exceptions for things like this this interchange and a few others in the city.

bchris02
03-14-2013, 11:00 PM
I thought the same thing.

It has to do with the way Oklahoma funds it highways. You can't borrow money like Texas does and have 3 different multi billion dollar highway projects going on at the same time in Dallas. I wish Oklahoma would allow for that, but on the other hand, it is more responsible to do it the way we do it. I think they should have exceptions for things like this this interchange and a few others in the city.

Sorry for asking a question that has been asked multiple times.

Yes, I agree there should be exceptions for huge projects like this interchange.

ljbab728
03-15-2013, 12:27 AM
Transportation officials urge motorists to avoid I-44/I-235 interchange as projects begin in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/transportation-officials-urge-motorists-to-avoid-i-44i-235-interchange-as-projects-begin-in-oklahoma-city/article/3765918)

Plutonic Panda
03-15-2013, 12:28 AM
Sorry for asking a question that has been asked multiple times.

Yes, I agree there should be exceptions for huge projects like this interchange.Ahhhhh, I don't have a problem with it. Hell, I do it quite often haha, that was kind of a hypocritical statement by me. I'm sure some here think to themselves(those who even read my post ;)) when I keep saying I wish that they would turn those tow cloverleafs into fly-overs or I wish Devon would've kept their original plans to build 65 stories instead 50 and I'm sure thoughts go through, like, "ok plupan I get it, shut about it!!!!" lol. . . It's all good though haha.

Though, I really wish something could be done about moving projects ahead, but this is Oklahoma. The one thing I hate more than anything is having a project come along really fast and then just STOP! That seems to happen a lot here and it's frustrating. This happens with private as well. This happens in other places, obviously, but it's not as common.

Plutonic Panda
03-15-2013, 12:32 AM
Transportation officials urge motorists to avoid I-44/I-235 interchange as projects begin in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/transportation-officials-urge-motorists-to-avoid-i-44i-235-interchange-as-projects-begin-in-oklahoma-city/article/3765918)Hey, I was gonna post that!!!!!!! lol jk :p

BTW I just had to chuckle at this part
the closure of I-235 in its entirety for as long as two days this summer

OKCisOK4me
03-15-2013, 01:15 AM
It wood behoove me if the Edmond commuters can't know that both I-35 and 74 exist as corridors on each side of their city. Now all Edmond has to do is to have Covell 4 lanes between the two as in their master plan and all will be well!

Plutonic Panda
03-15-2013, 09:14 PM
Article from News9 :OKC Drivers React To More Construction Work At I-44, I-235 - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/21656629/okc-drivers-react-to-more-construction-work-at-i-44-i-235-interchange)

jn1780
03-16-2013, 09:33 PM
It wood behoove me if the Edmond commuters can't know that both I-35 and 74 exist as corridors on each side of their city. Now all Edmond has to do is to have Covell 4 lanes between the two as in their master plan and all will be well!

They have 3 years to discover these roads because 2016 is when the major work starts.

I guess its possible NW 50th and the RR bridge project gets bumped up, but really all of the other projects cost a lot more and pretty much roll right into each other so I don't see any more work taking place for the next 2-3 years after this project is completed.

stlokc
03-17-2013, 01:02 AM
I don't remember how it was financed, but in St. Louis they completely rebuilt an entire 10-15 mile stretch of highway a few yrs ago. Probably twenty interchanges including a very complex one similar to this one in question. The way they did it was to completely, I mean completely, close half of it one year, then the other half the other year. They rebuilt the whole thing in 2 years. And this is the primary highway from the suburbs ibto downtown. The thought was, if they tried to keep it open during construction it would take forever. Better to get it done as fast as possible, even though it caused huge detours for a period of time. I mean huge - something like 150,000 cars funneled onto other interstates. Website was: thenewI-64.com. Can't help thinking, if they worked night and day they could probably do this interchange in 6 months to a year. Wouldn't it be better to funnel traffic to I-35 and Lake Hefner Pkwy for a period of time and just get. it. done.

Plutonic Panda
03-17-2013, 02:23 AM
I don't remember how it was financed, but in St. Louis they completely rebuilt an entire 10-15 mile stretch of highway a few yrs ago. Probably twenty interchanges including a very complex one similar to this one in question. The way they did it was to completely, I mean completely, close half of it one year, then the other half the other year. They rebuilt the whole thing in 2 years. And this is the primary highway from the suburbs ibto downtown. The thought was, if they tried to keep it open during construction it would take forever. Better to get it done as fast as possible, even though it caused huge detours for a period of time. I mean huge - something like 150,000 cars funneled onto other interstates. Website was: thenewI-64.com. Can't help thinking, if they worked night and day they could probably do this interchange in 6 months to a year. Wouldn't it be better to funnel traffic to I-35 and Lake Hefner Pkwy for a period of time and just get. it. done.The New I-64 - Missouri Department of Transportation (http://www.thenewi64.org) , very nice. Yes, I agree though. I wish they would three things with this project, convert the two cloverleafs to fly-overs and just shut the freakin thing down until it is done. It would be safer and most likely would get done faster. Also, just finance it and pay it back instead of waiting a decade to finish it. If any of these things happen, it will be good, but highly unlikely. :/

edcrunk
03-17-2013, 04:15 AM
3431 The High-Five would be the sh**. I this cost around 250mil. It would be nice to see something similar to this. I doubt seeing it happen though. We also don't have the express toll ways that Dallas has going through the interchange.
75 (central expressway) and 635 are the two highways that make up the High five and neither is a toll road. George Bush and the North Dallas Tollway are the only I can think of.

Plutonic Panda
03-17-2013, 06:35 AM
75 (central expressway) and 635 are the two highways that make up the High five and neither is a toll road. George Bush and the North Dallas Tollway are the only I can think of.Well, with the new 635 expansion, they are adding express toll lanes, that's what I was referring to. :)

Snowman
03-17-2013, 11:15 AM
I don't remember how it was financed, but in St. Louis they completely rebuilt an entire 10-15 mile stretch of highway a few yrs ago. Probably twenty interchanges including a very complex one similar to this one in question. The way they did it was to completely, I mean completely, close half of it one year, then the other half the other year. They rebuilt the whole thing in 2 years. And this is the primary highway from the suburbs ibto downtown. The thought was, if they tried to keep it open during construction it would take forever. Better to get it done as fast as possible, even though it caused huge detours for a period of time. I mean huge - something like 150,000 cars funneled onto other interstates. Website was: thenewI-64.com. Can't help thinking, if they worked night and day they could probably do this interchange in 6 months to a year. Wouldn't it be better to funnel traffic to I-35 and Lake Hefner Pkwy for a period of time and just get. it. done.

The financing has always been the biggest delay on this, technically this is part of the same overarching plan that expanded Broadway extension to eight lanes and connected the spur at this intersection to downtown, so it has been a piecemeal approach going on for at least twenty five years now.

MagzOK
03-22-2013, 09:27 AM
It takes an act of the OK Legislature to have ODOT or the State to issue bonds or to just fund ODOT to work. The problem is that every legislature wants a piece of the bonds. Look at the two phases of the CIP Program from 1997 or so. A handful of Oklahoma's metropolitan area legislators got together with ODOT senior staff to come up with some way to fund extremely expensive and needed construction projects. CIP was a fantastic idea in its beginning phases because it was going to address a backlog of needed highway construction/reconstruction. ODOT gathered up a wishlist, so to speak, however many non-metro area legislators didn't like the idea of the metropolitan areas receiving most of the money. Instead of leaving it up to ODOT (the ones who assess the state's highway needs), legislators decided that if they were going to approve such a historic program each of them wanted a piece. So what we ended up getting was a piece of crap program that each legislator or whatnot got to have some new construction project in their district, basically evenly distributing the money, and therefore totally diluted the original purpose of the program. They actually got to choose (over ODOT) the project they wanted! The widening of Broadway Extension from Edmond to NW 63rd I think was this area's CIP project. Then ODOT and these legislators started looking into the GARVEE Bond program that so many states had been using successfully. Again, the non-metro legislators didn't like "gambling" with potential future highway monies, and turned it down. But yes, it's extremely ridiculous that we can't get these things funded and completed faster. Look at I-35 corridor from downtown to Norman. It's just now in the final phases, but now it's time to start again and widen to 4 or 5 lanes. Just horrible. It's all a big joke.

HangryHippo
03-22-2013, 09:41 AM
It takes an act of the OK Legislature to have ODOT or the State to issue bonds or to just fund ODOT to work. The problem is that every legislature wants a piece of the bonds. Look at the two phases of the CIP Program from 1997 or so. A handful of Oklahoma's metropolitan area legislators got together with ODOT senior staff to come up with some way to fund extremely expensive and needed construction projects. CIP was a fantastic idea in its beginning phases because it was going to address a backlog of needed highway construction/reconstruction. ODOT gathered up a wishlist, so to speak, however many non-metro area legislators didn't like the idea of the metropolitan areas receiving most of the money. Instead of leaving it up to ODOT (the ones who assess the state's highway needs), legislators decided that if they were going to approve such a historic program each of them wanted a piece. So what we ended up getting was a piece of crap program that each legislator or whatnot got to have some new construction project in their district, basically evenly distributing the money, and therefore totally diluted the original purpose of the program. They actually got to choose (over ODOT) the project they wanted! The widening of Broadway Extension from Edmond to NW 63rd I think was this area's CIP project. Then ODOT and these legislators started looking into the GARVEE Bond program that so many states had been using successfully. Again, the non-metro legislators didn't like "gambling" with potential future highway monies, and turned it down. But yes, it's extremely ridiculous that we can't get these things funded and completed faster. Look at I-35 corridor from downtown to Norman. It's just now in the final phases, but now it's time to start again and widen to 4 or 5 lanes. Just horrible. It's all a big joke.

Good post. It's just been one disaster of stupidity after another. Unbelievable that we can't widen a highway before it's time to widen it again. Roads here are just an absolute joke.

MustangGT
03-22-2013, 10:31 AM
Good post. It's just been one disaster of stupidity after another. Unbelievable that we can't widen a highway before it's time to widen it again. Roads here are just an absolute joke.

As bad as they are I have seen many that are worse messes. KCK and KCM come to mind.

Anonymous.
04-26-2013, 07:32 AM
Just an update on this interchange.

The SB Broadway to Santa Fe/50th ramp and bridge is now officially closed.

They now have signs indicating up towards Britton heading SB down broadway that indicate they will be closing one lane. I hope this is for the weekend only as this will be a huge problem next week if they narrow that corridor to one lane. As of this morning, the signs are in place, but the road is still two lanes.

LakeEffect
04-26-2013, 07:41 AM
From ODOT:

"Southbound I-235 ramp to N.W. 50th St. closed following accident

The southbound I-235 ramp to N.W. 50th St. is closed and will remain closed permanently following an accident yesterday when a truck struck the ramp/bridge over I-235. As part of the upcoming I-44/I-235 ramp reconstruction project starting in May, this ramp was scheduled to be permanently closed at that time and removed. Drivers on southbound I-235 wanting to exit onto N.W. 50th St. are advised to exit at N.W. 36th St. or exit eastbound I-44 at Western Ave. to bypass the closure.

I-44/I-235 ramp closes, I-235 narrows early Friday

The eastbound I-44 ramp to southbound I-235 and the right lane of southbound I-235 between I-44 and N.W. 50th St. will be closed from 3:30 a.m. to 6 a.m. Friday for sign removal."

Traffax - OKC (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsmedia/traffax/okc/)

Anonymous.
04-26-2013, 08:42 AM
Ah, figured it had to do with the bridge/ramp (deconstruction).

I wonder why they left all of their road work signs up...?

NoOkie
04-26-2013, 01:55 PM
From ODOT:

"Southbound I-235 ramp to N.W. 50th St. closed following accident

The southbound I-235 ramp to N.W. 50th St. is closed and will remain closed permanently following an accident yesterday when a truck struck the ramp/bridge over I-235. As part of the upcoming I-44/I-235 ramp reconstruction project starting in May, this ramp was scheduled to be permanently closed at that time and removed. Drivers on southbound I-235 wanting to exit onto N.W. 50th St. are advised to exit at N.W. 36th St. or exit eastbound I-44 at Western Ave. to bypass the closure.


So glad that I don't live off 50th and Santa Fe anymore. I wonder how badly they hit the bridge to make them decide to close it early.

catch22
04-26-2013, 02:01 PM
No point spending money to fix it if you are doing major work on it anyway in a month.

no1cub17
04-27-2013, 09:24 AM
I thought the same thing.

It has to do with the way Oklahoma funds it highways. You can't borrow money like Texas does and have 3 different multi billion dollar highway projects going on at the same time in Dallas. I wish Oklahoma would allow for that, but on the other hand, it is more responsible to do it the way we do it. I think they should have exceptions for things like this this interchange and a few others in the city.

Glad I went back one page because I was just about to ask the same question again :) So thank you for quickly answering the previous poster.

The idea of closing the interchange entirely is quite intriguing a la what they did in St Louis. It's just so brutal to travel that corridor (even during non rush hour times it can be painfully slow - not to mention Oklahoma drivers seem incapable of driving along curves at more than 45 mph which always helps). I would think the other interstates have enough slack in them to temporarily handle the extra traffic. Oh well one can dream.

Plutonic Panda
04-27-2013, 09:34 AM
Glad I went back one page because I was just about to ask the same question again :) So thank you for quickly answering the previous poster.

The idea of closing the interchange entirely is quite intriguing a la what they did in St Louis. It's just so brutal to travel that corridor (even during non rush hour times it can be painfully slow - not to mention Oklahoma drivers seem incapable of driving along curves at more than 45 mph which always helps). I would think the other interstates have enough slack in them to temporarily handle the extra traffic. Oh well one can dream.Yeah, I would be all for just completely closing it. It would get done a lot quicker, some lives would probably be saved, and it would be less stressful for the construction workers. People need to learn to cope with a highway shutting down for a year, actually I think this thing could be done in 8-10 months if they really tried. The one thing that REALLY bothers me is they are still going to have two cloverleafs on this highway. I know they are going to longer and wider, but come on man, I'm still hoping for a miracle that ODOT might change their mind and do a five stack interchange, but I'm preparing for the original (planned) plans.

DowntownMan
04-27-2013, 11:18 AM
Since they wont shut down the entire thing as that would cause uproar...maybe they could close all the ramps and make it only for traffic to go through and no getting on or off to i-44. I think that would help ease the area until the construction was over.

Just dreaming i guess..

Plutonic Panda
04-27-2013, 12:41 PM
I'm just really interested how they're going to go about widening it through. Are they going to widen the entire thing to four lanes through, as most of 235 north of this is four lanes, or just going make it three lanes through and then add a lane as the exit ramp comes onto the highway? I know the renderings had it at three, but I didn't know if that was what is actually going to happen.

It's really a shame that some people are probably going die on this thing when it gets going and it could be avoided by shutting it down at least when they're widening 235 through. If this was I-35 or I-40, then it would be a little different, but there are plenty of bypasses. People can learn to live with out one little highway for 6-10 months and have a new great(or half great) interchange. This is coming from a highway and car advocate, if that's worth anything.

Snowman
04-28-2013, 06:45 AM
... The one thing that REALLY bothers me is they are still going to have two cloverleafs on this highway. I know they are going to longer and wider, but come on man, I'm still hoping for a miracle that ODOT might change their mind and do a five stack interchange, but I'm preparing for the original (planned) plans.

What would need to change would be the budget they have to work with, when interviewed they said that they would prefer all flyovers but in the budget they had for the project that was not feasible and then talked about how cloverleafs inderacting with the distributor road verses the main road would still be an improvement to flow.

Anonymous.
04-29-2013, 01:26 PM
I think they have given up on all repairs to this stretch. There are wheel-ending potholes everywhere, especially southbound right before you get to the re-widening to 4 lanes.


Suggesting to close this thing entirely is interesting, but the volume of traffic through there is too intense. It would bog down ouand disrupt the "routine travelers" on I-35 and Hefner Pkwy.

OklahomaNick
05-28-2013, 03:01 PM
Anything new on the construction here?
When is the next phase of construction supposed to start?

Anonymous.
05-28-2013, 03:20 PM
They have not even torn down the 50th bridge. Not sure when it is "supposed" to start.

LakeEffect
05-28-2013, 03:41 PM
They have not even torn down the 50th bridge. Not sure when it is "supposed" to start.

Survey stakes were placed last week. Makes it appear that it's about to begin en force.

BoulderSooner
05-29-2013, 10:31 AM
Anything new on the construction here?
When is the next phase of construction supposed to start?

the east bound I 44 to south bound I235 should start very soon

CCOKC
05-30-2013, 08:37 PM
I take this exit on my way to work every day. I would like to know when this starts so I can change my path.

OKCisOK4me
06-12-2013, 05:42 PM
Don't remember seeing any information on it so I'll post it here, but...

In this month's issue of OKC Chamber's The Point, they stated that the state budget that passed this year will protect the funding levels for ODOT and it will keep its 8-year construction plan on schedule. In that schedule they obviously include this project, the boulevard, the extended expansion of Hwy 74 and the 240/35 interchange.

I was surprised that 240/35 is included in this plan cause I feel it's on the back burner even though there are tons of accidents there.

Geographer
06-13-2013, 11:44 AM
There's plans to extend Hwy 74 north? Yikes.

LakeEffect
06-13-2013, 01:00 PM
There's plans to extend Hwy 74 north? Yikes.

Not extend per se - but extend the limited access portion.

OKCisOK4me
06-13-2013, 03:13 PM
There's plans to extend Hwy 74 north? Yikes.

Guessing you haven't been on 74 between NW 206th and Waterloo. How it is up there is how the rest of the project will be.

Anonymous.
06-19-2013, 01:08 PM
Northbound through this interchange is one lane today. Prepare for carmeggedon @ 5pm.

Definitely finding an alternate route.

BDK
06-19-2013, 01:25 PM
Northbound through this interchange is one lane today. Prepare for carmeggedon @ 5pm.

Definitely finding an alternate route.

Going through it at 1:00, it added 30 minutes to my drive. It's going to be awful at rush hour.

Buffalo Bill
06-19-2013, 01:43 PM
Going through it at 1:00, it added 30 minutes to my drive. It's going to be awful at rush hour.

Not that I'd ever drive through this at rush hour, but both NB lanes should be open by then:

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsmedia/traffax/okc/tues_june_18.pdf

Anonymous.
06-20-2013, 01:52 PM
You're right. It was back open yesterday by 5.

It is closed today during the same time period. (until 3pm, or about when this post is made).

Anonymous.
07-08-2013, 05:03 PM
Looks like the bridge starts getting knocked down starting Wednesday night.

Plutonic Panda
07-19-2013, 07:52 PM
The reconstruction begins Monday!

"OKLA. CITY — Progress on one of Oklahoma City’s busiest interchanges is ramping up and commuters will see work begin at the I-44/I-235/Broadway Extension interchange Monday night, according to the Oklahoma Department of Transportation.

This next phase of the I-44/ I-235/BWX interchange is concentrated primarily in the southwest quadrant of the interchange, however, some minor improvements also will take place on the northeast quadrant of the interchange. The project will replace the eastbound I-44 ramp to southbound I-235 and includes temporary work to lengthen and add a lane to the current westbound I-44 ramp to northbound I-235 in order to help alleviate traffic issues during construction of the current and future phases of the I-44/Broadway Extension interchange reconstruction, ODOT stated."

- See more Broadway Extension interchange reconstruction begins Monday » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x596951599/Broadway-Extension-interchange-reconstruction-begins-Monday)

OKCisOK4me
07-19-2013, 09:01 PM
I made a visual cause sometimes it can get confusing:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3760/9322900587_690abe6f23_b.jpg

OKCTalker
07-20-2013, 06:53 AM
The graphic accompanying in this morning's DO story shows that work won't be finished on this exchange until 2019. That will be a decade of disruption for this interchange. Is this SOP for DOT?

kevinpate
07-20-2013, 07:29 AM
That (sadly) seems somewhat fast for them.

OKCisOK4me
07-20-2013, 08:36 AM
The graphic accompanying in this morning's DO story shows that work won't be finished on this exchange until 2019. That will be a decade of disruption for this interchange. Is this SOP for DOT?

Yes because they do the projects as the funds become available. Not like Texas where they borrow and then pay back with interest.