View Full Version : I-235 / I-44 Interchange



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Snowman
06-24-2020, 08:28 AM
There needs to be at least 1 flyover between south>east & west>south because the 2 cloverleafs sharing 1 merge lane is gonna cause a bottleneck issue heading south. I think they should have built both as flyovers, especially since we have no idea what the city will look like 20/30 years from now. The demand CURRENTLY would justify, let alone the future.

It was influenced by budget, plus the clover leafs will interact with a pair of diversion lanes, not the main southbound travel lanes. So even without flyovers this should be a bump up in capacity, they will be interacting with a much lower trafficked lane, and if I recall correctly will be a longer merge zone too. The traffic on them is not that severe, the biggest issue for years on the ones that will remain cloverleafs has been how many people stop at the yield sign exiting southbound to eastbound when it was unnecessary, then are hesitant to go, creating a line several cars deep.

jccouger
06-24-2020, 08:38 AM
It came down to budget, plus the clover leafs will interact with a pair of diversion lanes, not the main southbound travel lanes. So even without flyovers this should be a bump up in capacity, they will be interacting with a much lower trafficked lane, and if I recall correctly will be a longer merge zone too.

Traffic heading south to east in a main lane will still have to slow down to find space to merge over in to the cloverleaf merge lane from traffic heading west-south. It might be better but will still cause a bottleneck.

Maybe there is some new mechanism I can't imagine, does anybody have the renderings of what it will look like with lane's drawn?

Snowman
06-24-2020, 08:59 AM
Traffic heading south to east in a main lane will still have to slow down to find space to merge over in to the cloverleaf merge lane from traffic heading west-south. It might be better but will still cause a bottleneck.

Maybe there is some new mechanism I can't imagine, does anybody have the renderings of what it will look like with lane's drawn?

This is a bit of a zoomed out rendering
Ihttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/qfEVeeQ-ndU/hqdefault.jpg

jccouger
06-24-2020, 09:14 AM
This is a bit of a zoomed out rendering
Ihttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/qfEVeeQ-ndU/hqdefault.jpg

Ah, I see. Thank you.

So basically it has the same set up as the old (current) south to east & east to north cloverleaf merge. Will still cause a bottleneck between the interchanges but at least it won't effect the flow of southbound traffic.

Plutonic Panda
06-24-2020, 10:35 AM
After being a part of the area all my life I find it hard to say one bridge is more justified than the other. You build out the highway regardless of what the demand is, make it look complete and practical, because the demand may not currently be there but it could increase over time.
+1 thatís the way Texas does it and they are extremely successful and their roads are amazing to drive on as a result.

LakeEffect
06-24-2020, 02:23 PM
Ah, I see. Thank you.

So basically it has the same set up as the old (current) south to east & east to north cloverleaf merge. Will still cause a bottleneck between the interchanges but at least it won't effect the flow of southbound traffic.

It's a little hard to see, but southbound through traffic will not interact with the cloverleafs, if I'm reading that graphic correctly. If you want to use the ramps, you'll have a dedicated lane that splits off after 63rd, and joins about 50th?

Laramie
06-26-2020, 03:26 PM
It would be worth building your interchanges to prepare for growth. Oklahoma lives for the moment.


Look south at Big Sister (Texas); interchanges are a model for the nation:

Dallas Mixmaster (AKA Spaghetti Bowl)
https://i.pinimg.com/474x/9b/cb/7c/9bcb7cf82bb202c9eb0b09f92b039262--dallas-texas-aerial-view.jpg

We don't need a huge mixmaster in Central Oklahoma; I-35/I-40 Junction could be expanded. We can expand to absorb growth with an interchange with future options built in. An inexpensive investment over time that will save funds and allow for more future federal money grants.

The most progressive thing you will see in Texas roads & interchanges are the designs to move traffic more safely with an even flow.

Oklahoma City & Tulsa top high impact projects: https://biappsrv.odot.ok.gov/apex/f?p=129:2:::NO:2::

Plutonic Panda
06-26-2020, 06:09 PM
I don’t think that is a real interchange though it would be awesome if it was.

Laramie
06-27-2020, 05:14 PM
Awesome

16194

https://res.cloudinary.com/culturemap-com/image/upload/ar_4:3,c_fill,g_faces:center,w_1200/v1511205919/photos/191950_original.jpg


Dallas Mixmaster (AKA Spaghetti Bowl Interchange)

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15909545/2016/05/mixmaster.jpg?w=625


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTzENaf3oT5mEcvxO6Gow1QW-bNPaAXBvmCmw&usqp=CAU

Personally watched them build this mega monster over a period of 40 years.
What was more disappointing; there weren't any signage direction to Oklahoma City.

kevin lee
06-27-2020, 05:56 PM
You have to go up I-35w to see that lol.

HOT ROD
06-30-2020, 01:49 PM
change ours to Fort Worth (or Texas) then. ...

Pete
07-17-2020, 05:41 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i235i44071620a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i235i44071620d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i235i44071620b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i235i44071620c.jpg

I235+I44
07-17-2020, 10:20 PM
I was just about to request you, Pete, for some latest pictures. You just served before I asked. Thanks a lot, as always!

Ronnie Jackson
07-19-2020, 08:12 PM
Ready for this baby to be finished.

Laramie
07-22-2020, 09:45 AM
Ready for this baby to be finished.

We're 50 years behind.

Oklahoma IMO is the last to get anything done on major interchanges in it's two major cities. Tulsa and OKC should be the two major hubs for traffic in our state.

Arizona (Phoenix, Tucson), Louisiana (New Orleans, Baton Rough, Shreveport) and Colorado (Denver, Colorado Springs) gets it.

We're the last to finally realize that cloverleafs went out with plaid in the 70s.

kevin lee
07-22-2020, 01:49 PM
We're definitely not the last one. I was up in Cincinnati last week and noticed they're resurfacing their I-75 cloverleaf as we speak.

Rover
07-22-2020, 08:13 PM
We're 50 years behind.

Oklahoma IMO is the last to get anything done on major interchanges in it's two major cities. Tulsa and OKC should be the two major hubs for traffic in our state.

Arizona (Phoenix, Tucson), Louisiana (New Orleans, Baton Rough, Shreveport) and Colorado (Denver, Colorado Springs) gets it.

We're the last to finally realize that cloverleafs went out with plaid in the 70s.
There are cloverleafs all over the country.

Laramie
07-22-2020, 08:29 PM
There are cloverleafs all over the country.

We aware of that Rover--and we're still building them on mounds of dirt.

MAJOR INTERCHANGES; when will we focus on more flyover bridges that will expedite traffic on the MAJOR INTERCHANGES--it's not like we have a ton of them in Oklahoma City.

jonny d
07-22-2020, 09:18 PM
We aware of that Rover--and we're still building them on mounds of dirt.

MAJOR INTERCHANGES; when will we focus on more flyover bridges that will expedite traffic on the MAJOR INTERCHANGES--it's not like we have a ton of them in Oklahoma City.

Wait, where is OKC building a cloverleaf currently? I believe there are plans to get rid of all of them in the city area. Like, literally all of them. OKC just doesn't have the luxury of a crapload of federal funds like everywhere in TX gets.

Laramie
07-23-2020, 04:04 AM
Wait, where is OKC building a cloverleaf currently? I believe there are plans to get rid of all of them in the city area. Like, literally all of them. OKC just doesn't have the luxury of a crapload of federal funds like everywhere in TX gets.

In reference to them building cloverleafs all over the country.

Laramie
07-23-2020, 04:06 AM
Wait, where is OKC building a cloverleaf currently? I believe there are plans to get rid of all of them in the city area. Like, literally all of them. OKC just doesn't have the luxury of a crapload of federal funds like everywhere in TX gets.

In reference to them building cloverleafs throughout the country.

jonny d
07-23-2020, 05:48 AM
In reference to them building cloverleafs all over the country.

I thought you were being OKC-specific, my bad.

Laramie
07-23-2020, 12:21 PM
I thought you were being OKC-specific, my bad.

You supplied me with some valuable information about Oklahoma planning to get rid of most of its cloverleafs--especially the ones without a flow thru traffic function.

Laramie
07-23-2020, 12:31 PM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Zm8aVygPUg8qr6VavOjtUSIInLHvhFIpDh8xclBVk6p9PxAg0u HHKe2RaSf9qGdYHNlz9wT1OScs_2HdjkXNvaTHnmfIltXe68pf XcONlYX-zR-GNT-jcHAjpde0CTW99I1J6lEYQCn90x7H5HuWmqPzHHytI1_pOzOlD g

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/a4/df/88a4df6cd0c338cbd55208c9bb0731df.jpg

The two circles they created near SSM Health St. Anthony Hospital are very easy to get around especially in 'Rush Hour' traffic. So neat to see the Streetcar on that route.

More road construction needed like flyovers especially on I-40 to the OUHSC north to Lincoln off I-235 (a sharp circular turn--traffic back ups), as for I-35/I-40 interchange would like to see ODOT totally redo and connect more options to NW/NE 4th with flyovers to/from Lincoln Boulevard, Gaylord Boulevards or Innovation District from Harrison.

rte66man
07-24-2020, 02:57 PM
More road construction needed like flyovers especially on I-40 to the OUHSC north to Lincoln off I-235 (a sharp circular turn--traffic back ups), as for I-35/I-40 interchange would like to see ODOT totally redo and connect more options to NW/NE 4th with flyovers to/from Lincoln Boulevard, Gaylord Boulevards or Innovation District from Harrison.

If you are going to the OUHSC from I40, you are likely going to exit at the Lincoln off ramp instead of going through the loop ramp at NE 8th. Connection from I40 to Gaylord is via the OKC Boulevard. I do agree they could have done a better job connecting the southern end of Lincoln to I235 and I 40 but that road was designed when Bricktown was just a trashy warehouse area. They did rebuild the Harrison exit to give drivers a straight shot to NE 10th and NE 13th.

Pete
08-10-2020, 09:22 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i235i44080920a.jpg

Pete
09-07-2020, 10:42 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23444090720a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544090720b.jpg

5alive
09-07-2020, 12:58 PM
About a year to go?

warreng88
09-07-2020, 02:21 PM
Looks like the north to west bound flyover is pretty close to being done. Any idea when it will open?

Pete
09-07-2020, 02:41 PM
They are going to have to open both those flyovers before they can complete the northbound lanes on I-235, as that stretch will go through the existing cloverleafs for both those transitions.

jn1780
09-07-2020, 09:44 PM
Looks like the north to west bound flyover is pretty close to being done. Any idea when it will open?

I would imagine they need both flyovers done. The NB to WB cloverleaf offers an alternative to drivers coming from the EB to NB clover in case they don't have time to merge.

BoulderSooner
09-08-2020, 06:48 AM
I would imagine they need both flyovers done. The NB to WB cloverleaf offers an alternative to drivers coming from the EB to NB clover in case they don't have time to merge.

i would think they would open the N-W fly over and close that clover leaf ASAP then at a later time close the W-N clover leaf

Snowman
09-08-2020, 09:13 AM
I would imagine they need both flyovers done. The NB to WB cloverleaf offers an alternative to drivers coming from the EB to NB clover in case they don't have time to merge.

The NB to WB is a major cause of jamming the other cloverleaf, reducing conflicting traffic should help merging from EB to NB. Also this would leave way more room to merge than they have at other times, which clearly would cause jams. Plus if they felt they had to have an option to route people who might have issues merging, it would not be hard to route them to the stoplight at 63rd, where they could just continue on though, verses go a direction they did not intent, so plausibly might get more people willing to take that option, plus reducing how many lanes they need to cross.

jn1780
09-08-2020, 10:19 AM
You guys are probably right. 63rd is supposed to close down for a month here soon. This may happen at the same time as the NB to WB switchover so that they can build out the connections north of the new bridge. This removes a lot of traffic from the equation once this switch over takes place.

Of Sound Mind
09-09-2020, 06:34 AM
From OkDOT social media:
"Thank you Governor Kevin Stitt (https://www.facebook.com/GovStitt/?__cft__[0]=AZW1PkHgw5wPGMQjHDA8qbmnQ_nYQpkoKafjZHc_rIn5K3-xZTwJbAV4d-gBmytVOUZ3k40guv5rgovF6ZZjoTTnmqlM_hw7cYhCRmavFTS2 wPvSMbVh9WdVhx9e5mgqDr7J8LozGQg0pUAp_72xM2mw__nMv7 kQmcFEOqEHUVWwm5TetL1TDeTFlszdp-ksXS8XEQDpWFgT9w2JgXiRFjdx&__tn__=kK-R) for coming to view the progress at the I-235 and I-44 interchange in Oklahoma City as the new northbound to westbound flyover ramp nears completion, potentially opening later this week if weather permits."

David
09-09-2020, 08:06 AM
I was wondering if it would be soon. On the drive in to work yesterday I saw a couple construction trucks driving the full length of it.

Pete
09-09-2020, 08:52 AM
Once they move NB-235 to WB-44 traffic to the flyover, they can continue on the NB-235 section that will go over the creek and tie it into the bridge over I-44.

From there, they will then have to open the EB-44 to NB-235 flyover so they can finish that final section (north of I-44) of NB-235.

BoulderSooner
09-09-2020, 10:00 AM
Once they move NB-235 to WB-44 traffic to the flyover, they can continue on the NB-235 section that will go over the creek and tie it into the bridge over I-44.

From there, they will then have to open the EB-44 to NB-235 flyover so they can finish that final section (north of I-44) of NB-235.

i think you have the 2 sections reversed the N-235 to WB44 flyover will let them finish the section of the new NB 235 bridge (north of I44)

vaflyer
09-11-2020, 12:12 PM
The signs for the new N-235 to WB44 flyover ramp were being installed this morning. The lines are painted on the ramp so I would not be surprised if the ramp opens later today.

riflesforwatie
09-11-2020, 02:54 PM
The signs for the new N-235 to WB44 flyover ramp were being installed this morning. The lines are painted on the ramp so I would not be surprised if the ramp opens later today.


https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=61923


"The afternoon and evening commute will be different today for I-235/I-44 interchange motorists, impacting the way drivers on northbound I-235/US-77 will access westbound I-44. Crews completed final striping at noon today and opened the new flyover ramp to traffic."

I235+I44
09-11-2020, 09:57 PM
https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=61923


"The afternoon and evening commute will be different today for I-235/I-44 interchange motorists, impacting the way drivers on northbound I-235/US-77 will access westbound I-44. Crews completed final striping at noon today and opened the new flyover ramp to traffic."

Just travelled on it tonight and it was an exciting feeling, although I got the feeling to be cautious when driving, thinking about what if the ramp is unfinished. :D
The merge area is really harsh, especially at night. Well, glad that the one ramp is completed.

Snowman
09-11-2020, 11:40 PM
Just travelled on it tonight and it was an exciting feeling, although I got the feeling to be cautious when driving, thinking about what if the ramp is unfinished. :D
The merge area is really harsh, especially at night. Well, glad that the one ramp is completed.

From the way people seem to drive in that area, I am sure plenty will come to a full stop and wait for no one to be visible on the other ramp before proceeding.

David
09-12-2020, 02:36 PM
Drove the new flyover today on my way back home from downtown, it is such an improvement. Merge area is bad, but that will change time.

josh
09-13-2020, 12:11 AM
Even Amarillo is planned to have multiple five stacks. Itís simply about money and an underfunded infrastructure Oklahoma sadly sees.

Do not confuse future planning with actual or near term construction. Those stack interchanges in Amarillo arenít being built for many many many years.

Plutonic Panda
09-13-2020, 12:43 AM
Do not confuse future planning with actual or near term construction. Those stack interchanges in Amarillo aren’t being built for many many many years.
At least TxDOT is planning for them. Volleyball interchanges built in the interim. Probably will get built before a single full stack interchange is built anywhere in Oklahoma unless OkDOT gets more funding. Bottom line is Oklahoma thinks small and budgets small. Talk about a tax raise to get nicer things for the state like Texas and you’re met with why it can’t be done or anti tax mentality.

josh
09-13-2020, 09:13 AM
At least TxDOT is planning for them. Volleyball interchanges built in the interim. Probably will get built before a single full stack interchange is built anywhere in Oklahoma unless OkDOT gets more funding. Bottom line is Oklahoma thinks small and budgets small. Talk about a tax raise to get nicer things for the state like Texas and youíre met with why it canít be done or anti tax mentality.

Speaking of five stack interchanges. The newest one in San Antonio opened last month on the far north side near Stone Oak.

https://i.imgur.com/5kLZZdT.jpg

BG918
09-13-2020, 12:39 PM
That SA stack is impressive. That is major infrastructure investment right there. Hopefully one day we will see more of these in OKC and Tulsa.

Pete
09-13-2020, 12:56 PM
From this morning:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544091320a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544091320c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544091320b.jpg

Pete
09-13-2020, 01:37 PM
Now, they can demolish that old cloverleaf and pretty much finish everything north of I-44.

Then they can open the westbound 44 to northbound 235 flyover, demo the existing cloverleaf and then finish south of 44.

5alive
09-13-2020, 02:38 PM
Seems that westbound 44 to northbound 235 flyover has quite a lot still to be completed.

Pete
09-13-2020, 02:47 PM
^

They couldn't do much more until they got rid of that one cloverleaf.

Hopefully, they'll start moving fast now.

josh
09-13-2020, 02:53 PM
That SA stack is impressive. That is major infrastructure investment right there. Hopefully one day we will see more of these in OKC and Tulsa.

Yeah, it’s pretty impressive in person, esp with all the expansion of 281 north of this interchange.

The next five stack interchange is soon to begin construction about ten miles west of this interchange at 1604 and 10. After that, a major major five stack is planned for 10 and 410 (http://texashighwayman.com/prj-i10e-410-full-sch.htm) on the east side. This one would kind of be a six stack interchange. It’s gonna be kind of insane.

Plutonic Panda
09-13-2020, 03:01 PM
Speaking of five stack interchanges. The newest one in San Antonio opened last month on the far north side near Stone Oak.

https://i.imgur.com/5kLZZdT.jpg
That is absolutely amazing! Beautiful interchange and I can only hope we get something like that in OKC one day. TxDOT really knows how to build infrastructure. Iím not sure where about in the SA metro but I have heard TxDOT is proposing an even bigger stack with express lane flyovers. I canít wait to visit SA as I still have yet to do so.

jn1780
09-13-2020, 08:21 PM
Seems that westbound 44 to northbound 235 flyover has quite a lot still to be completed.

I think they could have westbound 44 to northbound 235 done within a month now. They only have a span or two of flyover left to build then they are on the ground.(They may put in some temp pavement just so they are not blocked by the over cloverleaf) The 63rd exit from the flyover will probably take some time as well as the main 63rd ramp coming from NB 235.

rte66man
09-14-2020, 03:25 AM
If they haven't already done it, the NB to WB flyover is ready to be opened. When I was through on Friday, the signage was up and the roadway was striped.

UPDATE:
Yes, it is open.
https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=61921

Brett
09-14-2020, 12:00 PM
I drove the new flyover today. Speed limit is 35mph. Just make sure that you take the exit for 50th Street. There is no merge area when connecting to I-44. :Smiley199

HOT ROD
09-14-2020, 01:08 PM
guys, unfortunately with OKC's grid and that the freeways are away from major streets - I don't think we'll see any five stacks other than perhaps here when/if they add the I-44 W to I-235 S Downtown flyover and if they ever correctly redo I-40/I-44; the other interchanges aren't really 4-way and/or don't intersect with major streets like what is shown in SA.

The REAL missed opportunity for a 5 or 6 maybe even 7 stack interchange was at I-40/I-35/I-235/OKC Blvd/Lincoln Blvd. That being the true Crossroads of America is a massive number of changes/streets that with flyovers could have been the nation's largest particularly if they had also built in HOV lanes from I-35 N into downtown. But here we are with multiple barely two stacks spaced over the huge acreage and the extremely unsafe I-40 E to I-235 N cliffhanger cloverleaf still existing right after the Norman/Dallas exit [very unsafe!!!!]. ...

Such a missed opportunity but I am hoping that ODOT will at least highlight OKC Blvd as the exit for Downtown Traffic. There needs to be a sign on I-40 E and at I-35N and I-40 W (maybe even I-235S) just prior to the blvd exits that say "Downtown" or "Oklahoma City Boulevard <br> Downtown" or even better "I-40 [HOV exit] Oklahoma City Boulevard <br> Downtown", the latter maybe will come later but we need to advertise that OKCB is the best exit for downtown since I-40 actually takes you away from it and now technically only has one exit.

I-5N into downtown Seattle has a split on the right where there are 'local' downtown exits on the 'spur' and one exit on the thru main highway, OKC Blvd does the same both directions E-W in all practical manners and therefore should be signed properly for Downtown..

WitWhy
09-14-2020, 03:21 PM
ODOT must have had a 3rd grader design that 40/35/235 interchange. i mean, having 40 E go up and down a mountain grade while 40 W stays flat, a blind cloverleaf for 40 E to 235 N, making 35 N through traffic go to a single far right lane and exit to stay on 35 N, 35 S was crap for years but has since been improved but still on the left. what a garbage design

Plutonic Panda
09-14-2020, 03:52 PM
That interchange will need a redo in the next decade or two and the cost will easily eclipse a billion and very possibly 2 billion if it is done correctly.

riflesforwatie
09-14-2020, 07:36 PM
5-stack interchanges (like most of the U.S.'s generally overbuilt highway infrastructure) will be major white elephants 50 years from now. We should be thankful that our state's funding challenges have prevented us from going too far down the same road (pardon the pun) that Texas and some of the other Sun Belt states have. If online message boards had existed in the 1950s, there would've been a contingent waiting with bated breath for the Embarcadero Freeway in SF or the Alaskan Way Viaduct in Seattle or the Central Artery in Boston to be designed and built.