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Scott5114
02-19-2020, 01:59 AM
TxDOT probably hires better staff, too. Some of ODOT's quality control leaves a lot to be desired, even on things where doing it right costs nothing (things like proper spacing and centering on signs, for instance).

David
02-19-2020, 07:48 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i23544021620a.jpg

Beams were going up this morning on the south-most part of the NB to WB flyover, the bottom left in this picture.

HangryHippo
02-19-2020, 08:10 AM
TxDOT probably hires better staff, too. Some of ODOT's quality control leaves a lot to be desired, even on things where doing it right costs nothing (things like proper spacing and centering on signs, for instance).
So it's not just me? Hooray! lol I find their lack of attention to detail frustrating as hell. And who decides on the spacing between signs and other visual barriers (light poles, other signs, bridges)? ODOT is a sham of an organization.

OkiePoke
02-24-2020, 06:51 AM
There was a death here early Saturday morning. I wonder if poor visibility in the construction zone contributed (no lights).

https://www.news9.com/clip/15011133/ohp-troopers-identify-woman-found-in-north-okc-creek

OKC Guy
02-24-2020, 09:07 AM
There was a death here early Saturday morning. I wonder if poor visibility in the construction zone contributed (no lights).

https://www.news9.com/clip/15011133/ohp-troopers-identify-woman-found-in-north-okc-creek

Do you know where the car went off and ended up? They have concrete barriers lining the project I am trying to figure out where it got away from road. The car ended upside down in 2 feet of water and she drowned. It might be at the entrance to the work zone?

OkiePoke
02-24-2020, 09:33 AM
I drove by around 8:30 am Saturday and saw they were trying to recover the car. They were on the South bank of the creek. Couldn't really see much tbh.

We would need some recent pictures as they probably change the barriers frequently enough for construction access as progress is made.

jn1780
02-24-2020, 09:43 AM
I read another news report that she was driving at a high rate of speed and crash into a barrier and went up and over it.

OKC Guy
02-24-2020, 10:08 AM
I read another news report that she was driving at a high rate of speed and crash into a barrier and went up and over it.

Thanks that would make more sense. I do know drivers going north seem to speed bad between 36th and the site. You also have that far left lane merge and I swear some do 80-90 to pass as many cars as possible before their lane ends and merges right. It also merges at the bend so I could envision a car approaching the site way too fast and hitting barriers and going over.

Of Sound Mind
02-24-2020, 10:38 AM
i swear some do 80-90 to pass as many cars as possible before their lane ends and merges right.
guilty!

gopokes88
02-24-2020, 12:24 PM
guilty!

Careful doing that. You may try to cut off the one guy who won't move. Then you have to pick between driving into a barrier or the guy.

You'll choose the guy.
Who will then sue the daylight out of you, probably max out your insurance policy, and nearly send you into bankruptcy.
The problem for you will become he might carry high limits. His insurance will kick in and pay it. Then a Fortune 500 company is on you looking to recover their cash.


Source: One of my clients exact situations. It's not pretty.

catch22
02-24-2020, 12:46 PM
Careful doing that. You may try to cut off the one guy who won't move. Then you have to pick between driving into a barrier or the guy.

You'll choose the guy.
Who will then sue the daylight out of you, probably max out your insurance policy, and nearly send you into bankruptcy.
The problem for you will become he might carry high limits. His insurance will kick in and pay it. Then a Fortune 500 company is on you looking to recover their cash.


Source: One of my clients exact situations. It's not pretty.

This post really warms my heart :)

There is a merge zone on my commute to Denver going from 3 lanes to 2. It is marked for nearly a mile and a half that the lane ends. People will literally drive in that lane until it turns into the emergency lane, and proceed in the emergency lane until someone lets them in. All this at 65-70 mph. I want to carry a pair of spike strips in my car that i can toss out my window when I see someone attempting this.

Pete
02-24-2020, 12:50 PM
When I moved here from California, I couldn't believe how early most people merged (which is a good thing).

Out there, everyone stayed in any lane until the very last split-second.

Plutonic Panda
02-24-2020, 01:20 PM
^^^ early merging is inefficient and slows down traffic. Zipper merging is the best method using up all capacity.

Pete
02-24-2020, 01:22 PM
^^^ early merging is inefficient and slows down traffic. Zipper merging is the best method using up all capacity.

I'm talking about the people who blast up to the very end of a lane, then cut people off.

jn1780
02-24-2020, 01:33 PM
I'm talking about the people who blast up to the very end of a lane, then cut people off.

Yeah, those people are not thinking about Zipper Merging. If people were efficient machines I would argue Zipper Merging is more efficient, their not though. Maybe there needs to be merge zones instead of a "State Law Merge Left/Right" sign. You have a start and end, where you must begin Zippering in.

gopokes88
02-24-2020, 01:41 PM
Yeah, those people are not thinking about Zipper Merging. If people were efficient machines I would argue Zipper Merging is more efficient, their not though. Maybe there needs to be merge zones instead of a "State Law Merge Left/Right" sign. You have a start and end, where you must begin Zippering in.

Need to clarify, the guy that hit my client merged a few hundred yards after this sign. Which is why he's going through hell.

Plutonic Panda
02-24-2020, 02:10 PM
Yeah, those people are not thinking about Zipper Merging. If people were efficient machines I would argue Zipper Merging is more efficient, their not though. Maybe there needs to be merge zones instead of a "State Law Merge Left/Right" sign. You have a start and end, where you must begin Zippering in.
There is a wealth of data to back this up: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1748026001

Anonymous.
02-24-2020, 02:11 PM
Just one more sign needed.

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/helenair.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/87/787c8d93-b532-575e-a266-fdbe6264862c/5b8af78e96301.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C798

OKC Guy
02-24-2020, 02:26 PM
Zipper merging is not the problem.

To have a functioning merging area the speeds must be close to 60. I see the merge on 235 south just south of Hefner and it works fine because at that point traffic is flowing normally. If someone wants to go 65-70 and stay in left lane and then merge before it ends it works fine because there is proper spacing.

In the 235 north between 36th and work zone traffic is congested and backed up. Its only going between 5-20 mph. There is no room to merge yet some feel like going 60 or more next to 5-20 and then jack on brakes to find a hole. Thats dangerous and selfish. Even if they find a hole it then forces car/s behind to brake and a rubber band effect. If they get in line earlier then traffic would actually flow faster as no one is hitting brakes making room.

I think its important to distinguish the differences.

I can safely say I am undefeated in allowing cars to butt in line (merge) when traffic is backed up. Zero cars have got in ahead of my car. On the other hand when traffic is not backed up I have always let in someone merging its easy to let off gas just a tad and yet not really slow down much.

That to me is the difference.

When I lived in Cali it was every man for himself mostly. One thing I loved, if a car was merging from an on ramp they were “at speed” or else were not getting on. Here I see so many trying to merge on at 35-45 into 60-65. Its dangerous and those drivers have no business being on highway. If you are too scared to get up to merging speed take the side roads please!

jn1780
02-24-2020, 02:35 PM
^ Thats a good point. You have to distinguish the difference. The article Panda mention i'm sure is referring to more normal circumstances. These drivers in the construction zone are clearly just trying to gain an advantage over congested traffic.

Anonymous.
02-24-2020, 02:50 PM
Zipper merging is not the problem.

To have a functioning merging area the speeds must be close to 60. I see the merge on 235 south just south of Hefner and it works fine because at that point traffic is flowing normally. If someone wants to go 65-70 and stay in left lane and then merge before it ends it works fine because there is proper spacing.

In the 235 north between 36th and work zone traffic is congested and backed up. Its only going between 5-20 mph. There is no room to merge yet some feel like going 60 or more next to 5-20 and then jack on brakes to find a hole. Thats dangerous and selfish. Even if they find a hole it then forces car/s behind to brake and a rubber band effect. If they get in line earlier then traffic would actually flow faster as no one is hitting brakes making room.

I think its important to distinguish the differences.

I can safely say I am undefeated in allowing cars to butt in line (merge) when traffic is backed up. Zero cars have got in ahead of my car. On the other hand when traffic is not backed up I have always let in someone merging its easy to let off gas just a tad and yet not really slow down much.se!

That isn't what using all lanes is. Using all lanes means all 3 of the lanes after 36th would be fully stacked with vehicles moving the same speed. Then the middle lane lets people to the left of them zipper in. This is proper usage of merge efficiency. You blocking cars from coming in ahead of you is actually causing more issues.

OKC Guy
02-24-2020, 03:30 PM
That isn't what using all lanes is. Using all lanes means all 3 of the lanes after 36th would be fully stacked with vehicles moving the same speed. Then the middle lane lets people to the left of them zipper in. This is proper usage of merge efficiency. You blocking cars from coming in ahead of you is actually causing more issues.

Nope

Traffic in both “thru” lanes is stacked up back to 36th or even 23rd. Dangerous drivers go 60 in far left lane knowing there is no room to merge. They are the dangerous ones and my record will stay undefeated in this scenario.

Again, if flowing normally its fine to use left lane and pass/merge. But traffic is almost standstill or crawling and idiots have to dangerously speed and push there way in because they might save 30 seconds or god forbid a whole minute by being dangerous. I hope its you that my SUV did not allow in. At least I smile at them when I shake my head “nope, you’re not cramming in ahead of me”. The best part is they have to force in somewhere behind and then right after the zone they speed way up past speed limit in a “I’ll show you” display of manhood. But I love it then because they flush out the cops hiding ahead and I wave as they are getting a ticket! They showed me lol.

Anonymous.
02-24-2020, 03:45 PM
I understand what you area saying. I am just saying that actual efficiency for the traffic jam is for all of the lanes to be filled as far up as possible, and all merge points allowing a zipper. The reason there is people going 60mph next to you is because they are filling the lane that should have been filled from the start of the jam. If all lanes were filling up equally, this would remove the danger factor of people going 60mph next to still cars.

So the people who think they are doing the right thing (like you), by stacking up in the right two lanes, are actually doing the wrong thing in the first place.

Of Sound Mind
02-24-2020, 04:01 PM
Careful doing that. You may try to cut off the one guy who won't move. Then you have to pick between driving into a barrier or the guy.

You'll choose the guy.
Who will then sue the daylight out of you, probably max out your insurance policy, and nearly send you into bankruptcy.
The problem for you will become he might carry high limits. His insurance will kick in and pay it. Then a Fortune 500 company is on you looking to recover their cash.


Source: One of my clients exact situations. It's not pretty.
Hasn't been an issue for the last several months... in this stretch, it will be a long time before that choice has to be made and by that time I typically will have merged in front of a further up vehicle if "that guy" doesn't want to let others merge LEGALLY.

OKC Guy
02-24-2020, 04:32 PM
I understand what you area saying. I am just saying that actual efficiency for the traffic jam is for all of the lanes to be filled as far up as possible, and all merge points allowing a zipper. The reason there is people going 60mph next to you is because they are filling the lane that should have been filled from the start of the jam. If all lanes were filling up equally, this would remove the danger factor of people going 60mph next to still cars.

So the people who think they are doing the right thing (like you), by stacking up in the right two lanes, are actually doing the wrong thing in the first place.

Lol at wrong thing

I am legally in the flowing traffic lane. Then dangerous impatient speeders try and cut on line. And they are right and I am wrong? You have it backwards.

Listen, its the idiots who decide “not” to get in line who create the problems. If a car innocently was trying to merge correctly and just happened to be in the merge lane but is not going 60 and is making an honest effort to merge then I let them kn.

Again, its those who speed to the front of line for 1-2 miles and have zero intentions of making a smart/safe merge earlier when they can who I am talking about. Lets not twist this around you and everyone knows who they are. There are some who are above all law and courtesies who think they can just butt in line its those who I speak of and you and everyone knows it.

Some like to argue to argue. But I will never let dangerous idiots in who are speeding to jump the line. Nope.

Snowman
02-24-2020, 04:46 PM
I drove by around 8:30 am Saturday and saw they were trying to recover the car. They were on the South bank of the creek. Couldn't really see much tbh.

We would need some recent pictures as they probably change the barriers frequently enough for construction access as progress is made.

While the barriers have changed a few times over the course of years, they do not change that often.

zefferoni
02-25-2020, 06:45 AM
Lol at wrong thing

I am legally in the flowing traffic lane. Then dangerous impatient speeders try and cut on line. And they are right and I am wrong? You have it backwards.

Listen, its the idiots who decide “not” to get in line who create the problems. If a car innocently was trying to merge correctly and just happened to be in the merge lane but is not going 60 and is making an honest effort to merge then I let them kn.

Again, its those who speed to the front of line for 1-2 miles and have zero intentions of making a smart/safe merge earlier when they can who I am talking about. Lets not twist this around you and everyone knows who they are. There are some who are above all law and courtesies who think they can just butt in line its those who I speak of and you and everyone knows it.

Some like to argue to argue. But I will never let dangerous idiots in who are speeding to jump the line. Nope.

Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm

OKC Guy
02-25-2020, 07:03 AM
Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm

If the 2 thru lanes were full - meaning no room in the back - yes. But there is room at back of line these are just dangerous drivers speeding to save 30 seconds to 1 minute.

I will remain undefeated allowing ďjumpersĒ to get in front of me.

Once this project is done the city is gonna make bank on speeders due to ability to hide around the curves. It will be like a toll road lol.

Of Sound Mind
02-25-2020, 07:15 AM
I will remain undefeated allowing “jumpers” to get in front of me.

Challenge accepted

Anonymous.
02-25-2020, 07:17 AM
Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm

OKC Guy doesn't want to learn that he is wrong. This is all we need to know about why most traffic jams are inefficient, people are inherently prideful and this will always lead to issues on roads.

Of Sound Mind
02-25-2020, 07:19 AM
Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm
Don't confuse this discussion with facts and studies...

OkiePoke
02-25-2020, 07:49 AM
Zipper merge works at low speed and heavy congestion. Utilize all those lanes.

Merging prior to the lane closure at medium to normal speed is more efficient than zipper at the same speed.

jn1780
02-25-2020, 08:45 AM
Maybe we can agree that the best option is to not end the lane in the first place? lol

At the end of the day there is only X amount of cars that can pass through a bottleneck when going x miles an hour. This leads to cars going bumper to bumper. Either way: early merging or zippering, the middle lane cars need to slow down or stop to allow an opening for someone to merge which of course is going to compound the congestion in the middle lane. This is why the right lane eventually ending in I-44 WB will help so much. Hopefully, that ramp will be done within a year.

David
02-25-2020, 01:01 PM
"I remain undefeated" in the context of driving makes me think "I hope I never drive anywhere near that dangerous nutcase".

mugofbeer
02-25-2020, 01:43 PM
Don't confuse this discussion with facts and studies...

I saw a news report a while back about zipper merging. Colorado has started trying to use it in construction areas while the report said other states have looked at it and don't see that it is an improvement. The few time's I've seen it used here, I can't tell any real difference other than it may help smooth the stops and starts of congestion, but the congestion seems to start earlier.

Of Sound Mind
02-25-2020, 04:24 PM
For the "undefeated" driver...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhXu8hnpFRU

OKC Guy
02-25-2020, 04:39 PM
Lol!!! You guys are spending way too much time to prove you are right.

You are dangerous and unethical. You are going to argue over saving 20 seconds to 1 minute of wait time. I am still going to be undefeated in letting in discourteous drivers speeding up left lane only to try and can opener themselves into occupied spaces.

Keep on trying but I will stay undefeated in real life.

loveOKC
02-25-2020, 04:40 PM
For the "undefeated" driver...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhXu8hnpFRU


I’m surprised one of those F-150s or Chevy Trucks didn’t jump in front of you to stop you from “cutting” everybody.

Of Sound Mind
02-25-2020, 04:58 PM
Lol!!! You guys are spending way too much time to prove you are right.

You are dangerous and unethical. You are going to argue over saving 20 seconds to 1 minute of wait time. I am still going to be undefeated in letting in discourteous drivers speeding up left lane only to try and can opener themselves into occupied spaces.

Keep on trying but I will stay undefeated in real life.
It was no trouble at all! I don't care whether you think I'm right or not... I'm enjoying watching the ignorance in the discussion. As long as that remains a valid lane (which it is until it truly ends), I will continue to use it and pass by the "undefeated" drivers (along with the much more dangerous driving-while-texting drivers who leave large gaps between the vehicles in front of them, adding to the waiting of the "undefeated" drivers.

Of Sound Mind
02-25-2020, 05:02 PM
I’m surprised one of those F-150s or Chevy Trucks didn’t jump in front of you to stop you from “cutting” everybody.
It's happened a few times... but if they don't move at the speed of THAT lane, I will sometimes drive around them (much to their chagrin). Unlike what the "undefeated" driver(s) may believe, I'm actually a very alert driver who is always trying to anticipate such sudden movements/reactions by other drivers. If ODOT or OHP wanted us to merge sooner, they would indicate such with appropriate signage. Until then, I'll use any lane that is available until it's no longer a lane or available.

jerrywall
02-25-2020, 05:15 PM
It was no trouble at all! I don't care whether you think I'm right or not... I'm enjoying watching the ignorance in the discussion. As long as that remains a valid lane (which it is until it truly ends), I will continue to use it and pass by the "undefeated" drivers (along with the much more dangerous driving-while-texting drivers who leave large gaps between the vehicles in front of them, adding to the waiting of the "undefeated" drivers.

Heh. That's the big thing. I will use the available lane until I get close to the end. And then i turn on my turn signal and try move over... There's always one or two of those "undefeated" folks making it more dangerous, and I just pass them and get in front of the car ahead of them. I'll move over earlier if folks let me in.

And no, someone isn't being unethical (what? Lol) or even dangerous using that third lane. In fact it's 100% legal! It only bugs folks because it's "unfair". At the end of the day, we'll all get to your destinations plus or minus a couple of minutes.

loveOKC
02-25-2020, 05:25 PM
It's happened a few times... but if they don't move at the speed of THAT lane, I will sometimes drive around them (much to their chagrin). Unlike what the "undefeated" driver(s) may believe, I'm actually a very alert driver who is always trying to anticipate such sudden movements/reactions by other drivers. If ODOT or OHP wanted us to merge sooner, they would indicate such with appropriate signage. Until then, I'll use any lane that is available until it's no longer a lane or available.


Exactly this

David
02-26-2020, 09:08 AM
Lol!!! You guys are spending way too much time to prove you are right.

You are dangerous and unethical. You are going to argue over saving 20 seconds to 1 minute of wait time. I am still going to be undefeated in letting in discourteous drivers speeding up left lane only to try and can opener themselves into occupied spaces.

Keep on trying but I will stay undefeated in real life.

You should take a defensive driving course.

pkirk
02-26-2020, 09:43 AM
Not to completely dog pile the "undefeated driver", but you're actually one of the primary reason for traffic to back up at merge points because you don't let people in. Here's a fun video that actually explains what should be happening:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivme-_PE1d8

I've actually been there more than once to see the origination of the daily jam going from I-40 West to I-44 East. It always happens when a tightly bunched group of cars in the "thru" lane freeze out some cars who took the left lane all the way to the end. This causes cars behind those "undefeated drivers" to brake harder to let in the cars that are merging in. This in turn causes the cars behind those cars to brake which starts the chain reaction that eventually backs all the way back onto I-40 West past May. I've watched in my rearview in real time as the merge point was clear got jammed all the way back because someone thought they were "right" by merging early and the other person was "wrong" for waiting to the merge point.

Now, does this mean there's not jerks who are just speeding past as many cars as they can? Of course not, but they exist regardless of the traffic situation. But I contend it's equally as jerky to enforce your idea of fair and unfair especially at a merge point. You, more than them, are causing the bottleneck which, in turn, incentivizes more people to be jerks by speeding ahead and even more people to be jerks by "staying undefeated."

Ideally, the state should repeal the merge now law and accompanying signage. Replace it with signs that read:

Zipper Merge Ahead
Use Both Lanes Till Merge Point
Take Turns at Merge Point

Do away with the signage that shows one lane merging left or right into the other and replace them with one where both lanes merge together. Just my two cents.

jn1780
02-26-2020, 10:20 AM
I will say the "Lane Ends " sign is too far back. It should be on the overhead sign a couple of hundred feet from the merge. This is normally where you see the "Merge Now" signs in construction zones and people will fill in the space up to the Merge Now signs. The left over open lane space is not really enough to gain speed.

OKC Guy
02-26-2020, 10:25 AM
Wow, quite a feisty group here they are digging deep on the interwebs to argue a small point lol.

1. The backups happen for about 4 hours per day (2 each morning/afternoon).

2. In the other 20 hours the merging at end works exactly fine because no traffic is backed up.

3. The arguments do not hold water because the thru lanes are never fully backed up for miles. This means there is ample time to merge over beforehand.

4. Those who cannot wait in line an extra minute of their life put many others at risk by speeding (breaking the law) by traffic that is going between stopped to 20)

5. Those having to jump the line are selfish in trying to cut in line.

6. It works perfectly in the southbound merging area south of Hefner because traffic is flowing at speed.

7. I love being undefeated and the road ragers have to get in somewhere behind me - because I am legally entitled to my lane and if they hit me they are at blame for improper lane change.

8. Still undefeated and not selfish as I waited my turn in line

9. Those who are always speeding in the merge lane are the same ones who would outjump a kid trying to catch a homerun baseball and thump their chests at beating a kid to it.

10. When you cause a wreck by speeding and someone is killed or hurt, I hope you finally realize that 1 minute you tried to save wasnít worth it

To recap, in normal traffic (non rush) it works fine. Its only the 2 hours from 4-6 that has some thinking they are better than others and warrant special treatment by butting in line. I will still be undefeated while you road rage and pay tickets. I just hope you donít crash into someone who is hitting their brakes hard causing the car behind to move left and you coming at 60-70 hit them from behind moving 0-10. Yes, I have seen some close calls like where an accident was narrowly averted all because someone canít wait 1 extra minute and speeds in the merge lane.

Signed: Undefeated and staying that way. (Note: I love how you focus on the word undefeated vice the actual safety hazards you are creating lol)

David
02-26-2020, 10:34 AM
My focus is on the word undefeated because it shows a dangerous driving mentality. If you are focused while driving on who is 'winning' and who is 'losing' then you aren't focused on safety.

GoGators
02-26-2020, 10:58 AM
This thread has made me very thankful for my 2.5 mile 7 min commute. No interstate, No traffic, No delays. Instead of worrying about zippers and being undefeated you can be sitting in your living room before 5:10 pm. Highly recommend.

OKC Guy
02-26-2020, 11:06 AM
Back on topic, will the merge lane become a thru lane after construction? The way it looks to me it will. The current far right lane (after 36th going north) is the 50th exit and will also be flyover 235n to 44w. That leaves the 3 other current lanes (2 thru and 1 merge). I assume the merge lane becomes a thru lane and thus will have 3 full thru lanes.

Of Sound Mind
02-26-2020, 11:07 AM
Wow, quite a feisty group here they are digging deep on the interwebs to argue a small point lol.
Says the person who has argued the most on this topic.



3. The arguments do not hold water because the thru lanes are never fully backed up for miles. This means there is ample time to merge over beforehand.
Up to and including the actual merge point.



4. Those who cannot wait in line an extra minute of their life put many others at risk by speeding (breaking the law) by traffic that is going between stopped to 20)
It's not speeding if you are within the speed limit and within the flow of traffic for THAT lane.



5. Those having to jump the line are selfish in trying to cut in line.
You means selfish like those "undefeated" drivers?



7. I love being undefeated and the road ragers have to get in somewhere behind me - because I am legally entitled to my lane and if they hit me they are at blame for improper lane change.
I don't road rage... the "undefeated" drivers get road rage when I simply move up a few more spots before merging when they don't want to allow a driver in that is LEGALLY merging according to the zipper merge practices.



8. Still undefeated and not selfish as I waited my turn in line
And I remain undefeated waiting to merge until the zipper merge point.



9. Those who are always speeding in the merge lane are the same ones who would outjump a kid trying to catch a homerun baseball and thump their chests at beating a kid to it.
Demonstrably untrue



10. When you cause a wreck by speeding and someone is killed or hurt, I hope you finally realize that 1 minute you tried to save wasnít worth it
Again, zipper-merging and speeding are not synonymous.



To recap, in normal traffic (non rush) it works fine. Its only the 2 hours from 4-6 that has some thinking they are better than others and warrant special treatment by butting in line. I will still be undefeated while you road rage and pay tickets. I just hope you donít crash into someone who is hitting their brakes hard causing the car behind to move left and you coming at 60-70 hit them from behind moving 0-10. Yes, I have seen some close calls like where an accident was narrowly averted all because someone canít wait 1 extra minute and speeds in the merge lane.
My experience has been that on many days, especially at peak times, it's more like five or more minutes. And so I made the rational decision to LEGALLY utilize that third lane fully up to the merging point. That is no more selfish than refusing to allow a LEGALLY zipper-merging vehicle in front of you.



Signed: Undefeated and staying that way. (Note: I love how you focus on the word undefeated vice the actual safety hazards you are creating lol)
Signed: Undefeated zipper-merger and staying that way.

OKC Guy
02-26-2020, 11:10 AM
My focus is on the word undefeated because it shows a dangerous driving mentality. If you are focused while driving on who is 'winning' and who is 'losing' then you aren't focused on safety.


Its actually less dangerous. I focus on the car ahead and behind. Those who let in the impatient mergers hit brakes to do so which if the car behind isn’t paying attention can hit them. This happens often. Me not allowing impatient mergers in is less dangerous because I am not jacking on my brakes and worrying about the driver behind hitting me.

Its not hard to focus ahead like me not sure why anyone would claim its more dangerous when its actually less.

OKC Guy
02-26-2020, 11:12 AM
Says the person who has argued the most on this topic.


Up to and including the actual merge point.


It's not speeding if you are within the speed limit and within the flow of traffic for THAT lane.


You means selfish like those "undefeated" drivers?


I don't road rage... the "undefeated" drivers get road rage when I simply move up a few more spots before merging when they don't want to allow a driver in that is LEGALLY merging according to the zipper merge practices.


And I remain undefeated waiting to merge until the zipper merge point.


Demonstrably untrue


Again, zipper-merging and speeding are not synonymous.


My experience has been that on many days, especially at peak times, it's more like five or more minutes. And so I made the rational decision to LEGALLY utilize that third lane fully up to the merging point. That is no more selfish than refusing to allow a LEGALLY zipper-merging vehicle in front of you.


Signed: Undefeated zipper-merger and staying that way.

Lol

I am actually replying to about 8 or so impatient drivers. Speed kills. Its not 5 minutes either lol. Slow down and enjoy life

Of Sound Mind
02-26-2020, 11:13 AM
Back on topic, will the merge lane become a thru lane after construction? The way it looks to me it will. The current far right lane (after 36th going north) is the 50th exit and will also be flyover 235n to 44w. That leaves the 3 other current lanes (2 thru and 1 merge). I assume the merge lane becomes a thru lane and thus will have 3 full thru lanes.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i234i44final1.jpg

A close look at this rendering would suggest that there will be three full thru lanes.

OKC Guy
02-26-2020, 11:20 AM
A close look at this rendering would suggest that there will be three full thru lanes.

Perfect, thanks. Can’t wait, they are making good progress. With the flyover pillars and some completed it looks so different than even 4 months ago.

David
02-26-2020, 12:30 PM
Its actually less dangerous. I focus on the car ahead and behind. Those who let in the impatient mergers hit brakes to do so which if the car behind isnít paying attention can hit them. This happens often. Me not allowing impatient mergers in is less dangerous because I am not jacking on my brakes and worrying about the driver behind hitting me.

Its not hard to focus ahead like me not sure why anyone would claim its more dangerous when its actually less.

I understand that you have convinced yourself that your driving patterns are safer than other people's patterns. However, given the way you are presenting it here it does not sound like you are correct in how you are implementing those beliefs. It's not really even this specific issue and the arguments you are making regarding it, but the overall impression you are giving. If while driving you have to be the winner and other people have to be the losers, some day you may kill either yourself in trying to win or other people in trying to make sure they lose.

jccouger
02-26-2020, 01:44 PM
People that wait until the last minute to merge are assholes.

It may be the most efficient way, but it is still an asshole thing to do.

I say this, as being one of those assholes.

Of Sound Mind
02-26-2020, 02:01 PM
People that wait until the last minute to merge are assholes.

It may be the most efficient way, but it is still an asshole thing to do.

I say this, as being one of those assholes.
Guilty as charged!

As long as it remains legal to do so, I will continue to be an "undefeated" zipper merger.

Snowman
02-26-2020, 02:49 PM
A close look at this rendering would suggest that there will be three full thru lanes.

It merges back to two. There is only 4 lanes past the junction, and each direction of i44 traffic will get a dedicated lane, it may be so the junction can handle later expansion of the roads past it

Anonymous.
02-26-2020, 03:49 PM
Wow, quite a feisty group here they are digging deep on the interwebs to argue a small point lol.

1. The backups happen for about 4 hours per day (2 each morning/afternoon).

2. In the other 20 hours the merging at end works exactly fine because no traffic is backed up.

3. The arguments do not hold water because the thru lanes are never fully backed up for miles. This means there is ample time to merge over beforehand.

4. Those who cannot wait in line an extra minute of their life put many others at risk by speeding (breaking the law) by traffic that is going between stopped to 20)

5. Those having to jump the line are selfish in trying to cut in line.

6. It works perfectly in the southbound merging area south of Hefner because traffic is flowing at speed.

7. I love being undefeated and the road ragers have to get in somewhere behind me - because I am legally entitled to my lane and if they hit me they are at blame for improper lane change.

8. Still undefeated and not selfish as I waited my turn in line

9. Those who are always speeding in the merge lane are the same ones who would outjump a kid trying to catch a homerun baseball and thump their chests at beating a kid to it.

10. When you cause a wreck by speeding and someone is killed or hurt, I hope you finally realize that 1 minute you tried to save wasn’t worth it

To recap, in normal traffic (non rush) it works fine. Its only the 2 hours from 4-6 that has some thinking they are better than others and warrant special treatment by butting in line. I will still be undefeated while you road rage and pay tickets. I just hope you don’t crash into someone who is hitting their brakes hard causing the car behind to move left and you coming at 60-70 hit them from behind moving 0-10. Yes, I have seen some close calls like where an accident was narrowly averted all because someone can’t wait 1 extra minute and speeds in the merge lane.

Signed: Undefeated and staying that way. (Note: I love how you focus on the word undefeated vice the actual safety hazards you are creating lol)

Remember to go out and vote, people.

Teo9969
02-26-2020, 04:29 PM
Guilty as charged!

As long as it remains legal to do so, I will continue to be an "undefeated" zipper merger.

::shakes fist at you:: Sometimes I ride both lanes to make your all's lives harder :lol2: