View Full Version : I-235 / I-44 Interchange



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Of Sound Mind
10-28-2019, 12:55 PM
Looks like their planning the next nightmare of dangerous merges. This time involving I-44 ramps.
Those who think it's too dangerous don't have to go that route... which is something ODOT has been encouraging drivers to do... use alternate routes. I drive through there every day and it's treacherous, but drivable... with the exception of that on ramp from 63rd, which I now no longer use because it's too treacherous than I'm comfortable with. I'm actually grateful that it's not presently as disruptive as it potentially could be. It's not fun, but growing pains are rarely fun.

jn1780
10-28-2019, 01:21 PM
I'm a bit curious about why the NB to WB flyover piers are all single but the EB to NB ones that are starting to go up are double, Differences in height requirements, maybe?

Width requirements. EB to NB has two lanes because one of those lanes exits directly to 63rd

jn1780
10-28-2019, 01:24 PM
Those who think it's too dangerous don't have to go that route... which is something ODOT has been encouraging drivers to do... use alternate routes. I drive through there every day and it's treacherous, but drivable... with the exception of that on ramp from 63rd, which I now no longer use because it's too treacherous than I'm comfortable with. I'm actually grateful that it's not presently as disruptive as it potentially could be. It's not fun, but growing pains are rarely fun.

Then they should close it and advertised using alternate route.

OKC Guy
10-28-2019, 01:29 PM
Then they should close it and advertised using alternate route.

Seems logical. Unless its written in contract lanes must stay open with limited closings. Thats my guess. I don’t blame buildersI blame state and whoever wrote this contract.

jn1780
10-28-2019, 01:41 PM
Seems logical. Unless its written in contract lanes must stay open with limited closings. Thats my guess. I don’t blame buildersI blame state and whoever wrote this contract.

Sure, it is ultimately the states fault. The state is giving them a bonus for early completion, but the contractor cuts corners on safety to get this bonus. The SB lanes were not supposed to even start until NB flyover ramps and main bridge was done according to the suggested construction sequencing. I get it: this is in everyone's interest, but its also in everyone's interest in just go ahead and close 63rd on ramp. The state should know by now how contractors operate.

Of Sound Mind
10-28-2019, 02:30 PM
Then they should close it and advertised using alternate route.
Or they should keep doing what they are doing now and let drivers decide whether they feel comfortable enough to drive through that area... people can choose on their own to avoid the area altogether without penalizing the tens of thousands of drivers that seem to be able to competently navigate this area.

OKC Guy
10-28-2019, 02:41 PM
Or they should keep doing what they are doing now and let drivers decide whether they feel comfortable enough to drive through that area... people can choose on their own to avoid the area altogether without penalizing the tens of thousands of drivers that seem to be able to competently navigate this area.

I think you misinterpreted his comments. By shutting off a trickle of traffic (63rd) you enhance safety of all drivers. In other words by keeping the 63rd on ramp open compromises every driver using 235 South.

It really is a coin flip if the car from 63rd will accelerate fast enough and if the 235 south traffic can jack on brakes fast enough to avoid a crash. Traffic is 45mph on 235 south there. The ramp has a yield sign but 63rd ramp traffic is actually stopped. 63rd traffic has to look over a concrete wall coming from a bend in road to know if they have enough room to enter. Most 63rd drivers just goose it and go and pray 235s slows down enough to not hit them. But you end up with lots of rubber band braking since cars behind on 235s react to brakes. And then the left 235 lane also reacts.

Its stupid to keep it open for the limited traffic. But that limited traffic endangers all if 235s traffic.

jn1780
10-28-2019, 03:23 PM
I think you misinterpreted his comments. By shutting off a trickle of traffic (63rd) you enhance safety of all drivers. In other words by keeping the 63rd on ramp open compromises every driver using 235 South.

It really is a coin flip if the car from 63rd will accelerate fast enough and if the 235 south traffic can jack on brakes fast enough to avoid a crash. Traffic is 45mph on 235 south there. The ramp has a yield sign but 63rd ramp traffic is actually stopped. 63rd traffic has to look over a concrete wall coming from a bend in road to know if they have enough room to enter. Most 63rd drivers just goose it and go and pray 235s slows down enough to not hit them. But you end up with lots of rubber band braking since cars behind on 235s react to brakes. And then the left 235 lane also reacts.

Its stupid to keep it open for the limited traffic. But that limited traffic endangers all if 235s traffic.

Just for clarification, I'm talking about 63rd only. Obviously they shouldn't shut down I-44 or I-235.
They are shutting down 63rd off ramp for over a month in the future. So its not like its a crazy idea or anything.

Not sure how they came up with the requirement of having to shutdown 63rd off-ramp for over a month. I guess they draw the line somewhere.
I just think there is a disconnect with what ODOT deems as safe and what the contractor deems safe. ODOT never looks back into it after the fact. Like I mentioned before, the suggested sequencing is completely different from what their doing now.

David
10-28-2019, 04:23 PM
Width requirements. EB to NB has two lanes because one of those lanes exits directly to 63rd

That makes sense.

jn1780
10-31-2019, 09:40 AM
I know this isn't related to the interchange. I noticed 122nd on and off ramps are finally getting stoplights.

OKC Guy
11-01-2019, 04:46 PM
Oklahoma Department of Transportation
@OKDOT
OKC: The SB I-235 on-ramp from N. 63rd St. was switched to new pavement this afternoon providing a longer merge area. However, motorists are advised to be vigilant as they enter the work zone. The ramp will remain in this configuration through the end of the year. #OffBroadway
5:04 PM ∑ Nov 1, 2019

Edmond Hausfrau
11-02-2019, 03:38 PM
Oklahoma Department of Transportation
@OKDOT
OKC: The SB I-235 on-ramp from N. 63rd St. was switched to new pavement this afternoon providing a longer merge area. However, motorists are advised to be vigilant as they enter the work zone. The ramp will remain in this configuration through the end of the year. #OffBroadway
5:04 PM ∑ Nov 1, 2019

I drove it at 630pm via the I-44 offramp which merges into the 63rd ramp. Asphalt lovely, safety of the merge still @#&!!

jn1780
11-03-2019, 03:44 PM
I drove it at 630pm via the I-44 offramp which merges into the 63rd ramp. Asphalt lovely, safety of the merge still @#&!!

You have to love how both ramps have a yield sign. Might as well put up a stop sign at that point. It is better still than previous setup.

OKC Guy
11-22-2019, 05:15 PM
Lots of pillars up now we need a new pic.

Also the new way they have 63rd get to 235 South is much better. They have them merging with the 44w to 235s lanes and that works much better.

Why do cars slow way down when they see the cop car sitting there every day? He never moves its just something they do to get peoples attention. I would argue it distracts them from road and workers as cars already going posted speed slow way down below limit when they see it. Every day, same thing.

Lafferty Daniel
11-25-2019, 11:41 AM
Lots of pillars up now we need a new pic.

Also the new way they have 63rd get to 235 South is much better. They have them merging with the 44w to 235s lanes and that works much better.

Why do cars slow way down when they see the cop car sitting there every day? He never moves its just something they do to get peoples attention. I would argue it distracts them from road and workers as cars already going posted speed slow way down below limit when they see it. Every day, same thing.

You answered your own question. It's to get people to slow down so they don't keep going 65 through a construction zone.

OKC Guy
11-25-2019, 12:55 PM
You answered your own question. It's to get people to slow down so they don't keep going 65 through a construction zone.

Problem is they over-slow down and cause accidents and panic. As you enter its 45 and just past 44 overpass it goes to 50. No need to slow down to 30 entering with no one ahead of you just because you see blue lights on the other side of barriers. It creates more harm than good imo. These drivers now focus on police instead of looking at work area. And with panicked drivers in the work zone one has to watch the car ahead closely because they slam on brakes for no reason. This means there is less focus on workers. Some should take side roads and all of us would have a better drive

jonny d
11-25-2019, 07:33 PM
Problem is they over-slow down and cause accidents and panic. As you enter its 45 and just past 44 overpass it goes to 50. No need to slow down to 30 entering with no one ahead of you just because you see blue lights on the other side of barriers. It creates more harm than good imo. These drivers now focus on police instead of looking at work area. And with panicked drivers in the work zone one has to watch the car ahead closely because they slam on brakes for no reason. This means there is less focus on workers. Some should take side roads and all of us would have a better drive

People fly up to the point of no return, then have to slam on their breaks. I have seen it multiple times. Rather than obey the posted limits, everyone flies, then has to come to a screeching halt.

OKC Guy
11-26-2019, 06:55 AM
People fly up to the point of no return, then have to slam on their breaks. I have seen it multiple times. Rather than obey the posted limits, everyone flies, then has to come to a screeching halt.

I totally agree. But imo the cop needs to be parked 1/2 mile upstream vs parked in the actual work zone. He never leaves and has too many barriers. Parked 1/2 mile before work zone would get drivers to slow down before the work zone.

My point is I want drivers focused on workers and hazards in zone vs cops and speed. If you get them to 45 prior to zone then it will be smoother as they enter/traverse. At least then if anyone does the go fast and brake it will be outside the workzone.

Its all about cop placement is what I am suggesting and as stands it creates a hazard within the zone. For some reason people panic when they see blue lights. The speed is posted as 45 and is a safe speed. 30 to 35 with no one ahead is more dangerous as it stacks cars.

They are making great progress and lots of pillars up.

OKC Guy
11-26-2019, 10:36 AM
They must read OKC Talk lol. Today the cop was parked about 1/4 mile before the work zone and cars slowed down ahead and the flow was awesome and no brake slamming either. Hope they keep this up!

David
11-26-2019, 10:43 AM
The flow was probably better today because it is Thanksgiving week and more people are off work than a normal work week. I feel like I see the same thing on Fridays, less traffic and better time through the construction.

OKC Guy
11-26-2019, 04:45 PM
The flow was probably better today because it is Thanksgiving week and more people are off work than a normal work week. I feel like I see the same thing on Fridays, less traffic and better time through the construction.

I agree about less commuters but Mon was same volume and had more problems due to cop location imo. Getting them to slow earlier before the zone hells as there is no zone workers/barriers to worry about. So their focus is solely on slowing down before they enter and now that speeds are less yet no 30 or 35 drivers it seems to flow better plus can focus on worker safety vice cops.

JDSooners
12-01-2019, 11:46 AM
Any idea when theyll hang beams? Will they have a bunch done before they close the area for a weekend?

jn1780
12-02-2019, 11:55 AM
Any idea when theyll hang beams? Will they have a bunch done before they close the area for a weekend?

It will probably be shortly after the pier in the median of I44 is completed. They are shifting lanes again tonight and tomorrow night. I think they are planning on giving them more room to get a crawer crane in there to lift rebar cage and formwork. That same crane can then be used to lift beams over I444.

OKC Guy
12-02-2019, 12:44 PM
Saw this:

I-44 lanes shift at Western Ave. beginning Monday night

Drivers should expect the following closures for east and westbound I-44 beginning Monday for temporary striping as part of an ongoing interchange project.

Eastbound I-44 will be significantly shifted between Western Ave. (mm 126) and Lincoln Blvd. (mm 128A) from 7 p.m. Monday to 6 a.m. Tuesday and again from 7 p.m. Tuesday to 6 a.m. Wednesday.
Westbound I-44 will be significantly shifted between Lincoln Blvd. (mm 128A) and Western Ave. (mm 126) from 7 p.m. Wednesday to 6 a.m. Thursday and again from 7 p.m. Thursday to 6 a.m. Friday.
Motorists should expect delays and congestion in this area and consider using their Off Broadway alternate routes such as I-35, SH-74/Lake Hefner Parkway, I-40 and Martin Luther King Ave.

I-235/I-44 interchange work continues through 2021; expect lane and ramp shifts

Drivers should be alert to the following traffic impacts in the I-235/US-77 construction zone at I-44 for ongoing reconstruction and widening that continues through 2021:

Motorists should be alert to changing conditions including lane shifts, narrowed lanes and workers along I-235 between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St.
Northbound and southbound I-235 will remain open to two lanes in each direction during peak commute hours, but may narrow to one lane some nights and weekends.
Two lanes of I-235/US-77 in each direction are significantly shifted through fall. Motorists should be vigilant for new traffic patterns and movements and shorter merge distances at the on- and off-ramps.
East and westbound I-44 is narrowed between Lincoln Blvd. (mm 128A) and Western Ave. (mm 126) through fall 2019, speed limit is reduced.
The northbound I-235 off-ramp to N. 50th St. (mm 4A) is narrowed to one lane and Santa Fe Ave. is closed between N.E. 50th St. and N.E. 51st St. through early winter 2019 for intersection modification as part of an ongoing project. Motorists are advised to use an alternate route.
The southbound I-235 on-ramp from N. 63rd St. is shifted onto the new pavement. Use caution when merging into the work zone.
Motorists also should expect intermittent ramp closures throughout the project.
Motorists are reminded to use their Off Broadway alternate routes such as I-40, I-44, SH-74/Lake Hefner Parkway and Martin Luther King Ave. More information: https://www.ok.gov/odot/I-235_I-44_interchange.html

Pete
12-08-2019, 01:16 PM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544120819a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544120819b.jpg

OKC Guy
12-08-2019, 02:08 PM
Lots of pillars. Wonder how they will build new main bridges and keep 2 lanes open in both directions.

JDSooners
12-09-2019, 05:31 AM
Lots of pillars. Wonder how they will build new main bridges and keep 2 lanes open in both directions.

They'll move everything over to what they've be doing on the southbound side, or move the south over redo whatever the south is currently on, and then move the northbound over, seems typical of road work

Pete
12-09-2019, 06:21 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544120819a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544120819b.jpg

Quoting to move to new page.

OKC Guy
12-09-2019, 06:50 AM
Ok, I can it now. Looks like once they finish some flyovers and move west side on/off ramps they will have room to squeeze it in on the west side. Thanks for the pics that helps! Driving by you don’t get the same visual. Making good progress

jn1780
12-09-2019, 11:34 AM
They are probably a couple of weeks away from shifting SB lanes onto new pavement south and north of the bridge that goes over I44. That bridge will be the very last thing that is completed.

vaflyer
12-13-2019, 09:46 AM
From ODOT: Lane Shifts Coming Tuesday Morning

I-235 ramp, lanes close at I-44 Saturday, Monday night

I-235 and I-44 ramp and lane closures are scheduled through the weekend to prepare for a major traffic shift. Motorists who cannot avoid the area by taking alternate routes are advised to plan extra travel time and expect delays and congestion early next week as traffic adjusts. By Tuesday morning, southbound I-235/US-77 between N. 63rd St. and I-44 will be significantly shifted to the west onto new lanes.

The following closures will impact I-235 and I-44 from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturday:
Southbound I-235 off-ramp to eastbound I-44 will be closed;
Westbound I-44 off-ramp to southbound I-235/US-77 will be closed; and
I-235 will be narrowed to one lane in each direction between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St.

The following closures will impact I-235 and I-44 from 7 p.m. Monday to 6 a.m. Tuesday:
Southbound I-235/US-77/Broadway Ext. on-ramp from Wilshire Blvd. will be closed;
Southbound I-235/US-77/Broadway Ext. on-ramp from N. 63rd will be closed;
Southbound I-235/US-77 off-ramp to westbound I-44 will be closed;
Southbound I-235/US-77 off-ramp to eastbound I-44 will be closed; and
Westbound I-44 off-ramp to southbound I-235/US-77 will be closed.

Motorists are advised to use additional caution when merging onto southbound I-235/US-77 from N. 63rd St. as this on-ramp will be shifted and the merge area will be shorter for a period of time.

Laramie
12-13-2019, 04:15 PM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544120819b.jpg

One of my grandsons who lives in Texas (they're preparing to move to OKC) saw this area last week; he thought the reddish orange dirt was so neat. "Man, that's so neat, we don't have this color of dirt in Texas."

bombermwc
12-16-2019, 06:59 AM
One of my grandsons who lives in Texas (they're preparing to move to OKC) saw this area last week; he thought the reddish orange dirt was so neat. "Man, that's so neat, we don't have this color of dirt in Texas."

HAHAHA, i have relatives in Alabama that thought we were full of crap when we said our dirt was red. I had to show them some pictures for them to believe me. They just dont expect that clay content to show up that way for some reason. That's what you get when you used to be a inland sea......

JDSooners
12-19-2019, 09:08 AM
How are things since they moved things over

Pete
12-19-2019, 09:24 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544121919a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544121919b.jpg

loveOKC
12-19-2019, 09:45 AM
I drove Northbound yesterday morning and traffic Southbound was backed all the way up to Britton. If you zoom in on the above pic you can see how far back traffic was backed up.

AP
12-19-2019, 09:55 AM
It's been a while since I've seen the full plans for this interchange. Where can I find them?

snark0leptic
12-19-2019, 03:45 PM
For about a week or so, 44 westbound has had the leftmost lane walled off just a ways west of this intersection. It's at a pretty odd place since the flow of traffic is starting to pick up after the slowdown around the northbound off ramp, and the lane reduction is not obviously visible when the signs first begin. I've seen quite a few cars merge in the right lane because there might be a lane merger, then not see the construction for a while so they'll pop out to the left lane, only to immediately run into the lane merger and have to force their way back in. Good news though, it has been around long enough that regular commuters have learned to just go ahead and merge before the underpass and not jump lanes prematurely, but this is starting to back the initial westbound slowdown up quite a bit as that lane has to fight with the northbound off ramp towards Edmond.

WitWhy
12-22-2019, 07:25 PM
http://https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open (https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open)
AzDOT builds 22 miles of new freeway and interchange without cloverleaf in 3 years. ODOT still working on this interchange for a decade with a design from the 50s

HangryHippo
12-22-2019, 07:45 PM
http://https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open (https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open)
AzDOT builds 22 miles of new freeway and interchange without cloverleaf in 3 years. ODOT still working on this interchange for a decade with a design from the 50s
Interstate construction in this state is an absolute embarrassment.

Plutonic Panda
12-22-2019, 08:12 PM
http://https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open (https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open)
AzDOT builds 22 miles of new freeway and interchange without cloverleaf in 3 years. ODOT still working on this interchange for a decade with a design from the 50s
That freeway also passes through mountainous terrain, has two stack interchanges, and has 8 lanes. It is toll free and a beautiful freeway I drive there for the opening ceremony.

Certain projects are high priority for ADOT then in Tucson they will widen I-10 adding anywhere from 2-4 lanes in each direction tripling capacity yet that project is scheduled to take 20 years to complete.

OKC Guy
12-23-2019, 08:55 AM
http://https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open (https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open)
AzDOT builds 22 miles of new freeway and interchange without cloverleaf in 3 years. ODOT still working on this interchange for a decade with a design from the 50s

Its all about the funding. We could do the same thing. But we have to wait for fed funds to drop each year plus spread it around. Its also about clout which states get a bigger piece of funds pie. OK is a donor state meaning we get less back than we pay in fed gas tax. The bigger states blackmail smaller states due to having so many congressmen in comparison. Its a broken system.

But it has zero to do with our construction industry they could do projects here just as fast. One would also need to look at this other state and see how many projects they have going and if they delayed others to do this one.

Look at our turnpikes for how fast we can do projects. Its a very complicated process. Personally I’d love to get them done in 3 years but you have to have the money and put other projects on backburner.

OKC Guy
12-23-2019, 08:58 AM
It's been a while since I've seen the full plans for this interchange. Where can I find them?

https://biappsrv.odot.ok.gov/apex/f?p=129:2:::NO:2::

mugofbeer
12-23-2019, 10:42 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23544120819b.jpg

One of my grandsons who lives in Texas (they're preparing to move to OKC) saw this area last week; he thought the reddish orange dirt was so neat. "Man, that's so neat, we don't have this color of dirt in Texas."

I think it was wonderful that the U of T adopted the color of our dirt for their official school sports color.

WitWhy
12-23-2019, 12:59 PM
Its all about the funding. We could do the same thing. But we have to wait for fed funds to drop each year plus spread it around. Its also about clout which states get a bigger piece of funds pie. OK is a donor state meaning we get less back than we pay in fed gas tax. The bigger states blackmail smaller states due to having so many congressmen in comparison. Its a broken system.

But it has zero to do with our construction industry they could do projects here just as fast. One would also need to look at this other state and see how many projects they have going and if they delayed others to do this one.

Look at our turnpikes for how fast we can do projects. Its a very complicated process. Personally I’d love to get them done in 3 years but you have to have the money and put other projects on backburner.
Funding is definitely part of it. Maricopa county passed a 1/2 cent sales tax just for funding transportation in 2004 and renewed it recently. But the OTA has all that "funding" but still can't design a proper interchange. Cloverleafs everywhere, left lane exits and entrances, ending or adding the left lane. The designers in this state can't grasp proper traffic flow into their designs... why?

OKC Guy
12-23-2019, 01:06 PM
Funding is definitely part of it. Maricopa county passed a 1/2 cent sales tax just for funding transportation in 2004 and renewed it recently. But the OTA has all that "funding" but still can't design a proper interchange. Cloverleafs everywhere, left lane exits and entrances, ending or adding the left lane. The designers in this state can't grasp proper traffic flow into their designs... why?

Engineers are another story separate from funding.

Our engineers should be required to spend a week driving in other major metro areas to learn. I’ve lived in quite a few states and been to 31 countries and we lack decent engineers.

HangryHippo
12-23-2019, 01:37 PM
Funding is definitely part of it. Maricopa county passed a 1/2 cent sales tax just for funding transportation in 2004 and renewed it recently. But the OTA has all that "funding" but still can't design a proper interchange. Cloverleafs everywhere, left lane exits and entrances, ending or adding the left lane. The designers in this state can't grasp proper traffic flow into their designs... why?
This! Why, with all the toll revenue, can OTA still not fix their mistakes?

jn1780
12-23-2019, 01:44 PM
Engineers are another story separate from funding.

Our engineers should be required to spend a week driving in other major metro areas to learn. I’ve lived in quite a few states and been to 31 countries and we lack decent engineers.

I would say that goes back to funding. Even the OTA wants to do things as cheap as possible so this creates a culture of sticking to "cheapest designs possible" . The engineering talent in the state really has nothing to do with how things are designed. If ODOT or OTA wanted an expensive modern interchange, they could find an outside design firm if they wanted to.

Buffalo Bill
12-23-2019, 04:03 PM
http://https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open (https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/adot-south-mountain-freeway-now-open)
AzDOT builds 22 miles of new freeway and interchange without cloverleaf in 3 years. ODOT still working on this interchange for a decade with a design from the 50s

I wonder how many cars a day were driving on this while it was built.

Otherwise it’s basically the JKT from SH 74 to I 40.

mugofbeer
12-23-2019, 09:00 PM
I would say that goes back to funding. Even the OTA wants to do things as cheap as possible so this creates a culture of sticking to "cheapest designs possible" . The engineering talent in the state really has nothing to do with how things are designed. If ODOT or OTA wanted an expensive modern interchange, they could find an outside design firm if they wanted to.

AZ has about the same gas tax as OK but, as has been said, they passed a 2 cent sales tax in Maricopa County specifically to build urban highways - call it their MAPS for highways but its lasted longer but also with 4 times the people paying for it.

Its not about right, wrong, smart, stupid or anything else but funding. If ODOT had AZ level funding, OKC might have more direct access, high-speed interchanges and, l may be wrong but I don't think OK has built any left-hand exits and entrances in years - and yes, for the most part they should be replaced.

OKC chose to fund civic projects through MAPS. AZ chose highways.......and again with a far larger population.

Plutonic Panda
12-23-2019, 11:03 PM
AZ funds tons of civic projects.

Also note Arizona has no toll roads(that Iím aware of). They have a much better government than Oklahoma. Phoenix is also about to expand its light rail system. With Phoenix widening the broadway curve, I-17 being expanded to Black Canyon and reversible lanes, I-10 through the gila reserve expanded, and I-11 most notably around Kingman and onto Nevada border(we will know about that project in 2020), there are scores of projects being undertaken in Arizona and it is quite remarkable.

Tucson is also poised to get 2 new freeways(if the anti freeway sentiment there doesnít kill it) and Phoenix has several new routes being studied. SR-24 will be extended a few miles(phase one) and Iím sure the 303 will be eyeballed for an extension.

It is a bit unfair to compare OKC to Phoenix though as Phoenix arguably has one of the best freeway networks in the country. Salt Lake City is posed to give them a run for their money once all of their expansion plans come to fruition which is a massive undertaking as well. I can only hope OKC follows in the foot steps of Phoenix in regards to its freeway system.

mugofbeer
12-23-2019, 11:13 PM
AZ funds tons of civic projects.

Also note Arizona has no toll roads(that I’m aware of). They have a much better government than Oklahoma. Phoenix is also about to expand its light rail system. With Phoenix widening the broadway curve, I-17 being expanded to Black Canyon and reversible lanes, I-10 through the gila reserve expanded, and I-11 most notably around Kingman and onto Nevada border(we will know about that project in 2020), there are scores of projects being undertaken in Arizona and it is quite remarkable.

Tucson is also poised to get 2 new freeways(if the anti freeway sentiment there doesn’t kill it) and Phoenix has several new routes being studied. SR-24 will be extended a few miles(phase one) and I’m sure the 303 will be eyeballed for an extension.

A much better government how?

Of couse they fund civic programs. Everyone does. My point was OKCs decision was to use discretionary tax revenue on MAPS where AZ saw their population about to explode and smartly built highways using tax revenue, not tolls. AZ has twice the population, a bit higher per capita income, far less road milage to maintain, far more tourism dollars of revenue......its really not a valid comparison or something else to hang the OK sucks and everywhere else is better. Really, why do you hang around if you think OK is so bad? I truly don't understand the mentality. I'd move back in a heartbeat if my work allowed.

Plutonic Panda
12-23-2019, 11:29 PM
A much better government how?

Of couse they fund civic programs. Everyone does. My point was OKCs decision was to use discretionary tax revenue on MAPS where AZ saw their population about to explode and smartly built highways using tax revenue, not tolls. AZ has twice the population, a bit higher per capita income, far less road milage to maintain, far more tourism dollars of revenue......its really not a valid comparison or something else to hang the OK sucks and everywhere else is better. Really, why do you hang around if you think OK is so bad? I truly don't understand the mentality. I'd move back in a heartbeat if my work allowed.
I’ll respond to your other points if you can tell me where I said Oklahoma was so bad or explain why you think I believe that... best we hash that out before any further conversation because you are wrong. I love Oklahoma and OKC.

mugofbeer
12-23-2019, 11:49 PM
Just the statement that AZ has a much better government than OK. Exactly how do you figure that? So many on here really don't understand that every states goverment has it's flaws. Colorado is getting a lot of CA businesses because CA is taxing the majority of their businesses out of existence. As a result, COs state government feels they can affoard to blatently go against what voters turned down 3 times and impose strict fracking bans. Then, the government gripes about why CO voters twice voted down special tax revenue packages for more highway money.

AZ has major immigration problems, schools ranking near the worst in the US, water shortages. Texas has problems, and OK definitely has problems. I'm just constantly amazed at the volume of OK bashing on here. Its really not much better except in a very few places. I've lived in 11 different states in my life and Texas was probably the one state that seemed to have plenty of tax spending on about everything. NY and CT were awful. CO spends tons on environmental issues, as you might expect, but has chronic school funding and highway funding problems.

Plutonic Panda
12-24-2019, 12:18 AM
Oklahoma consistently ranks at the bottom of every good list and the top of every bad one. Sure there are exceptions to that but anecdotally I’ve noticed what I said to be the rule. The bashing of Oklahoma shouldn’t be surprising and doesn’t mean those that do bash it hate the state.

Arizona has a much better active transportation network, road network, better infrastructure, better quality of life with more amenities, more social services, and Arizona places higher emphasis on land preservation. Mass transit is better in Arizona in general too.

These are steps Arizona has taken to improve itself and it is why the state is doing better than Oklahoma.

I am not sure why you are bringing up Colorado. Colorado has a huge freeway network in Denver but yes I agree with you their system leaves much to be desired. Colorado doesn’t strike me as the most freeway friendly state yet isn’t as anti-freeway as Oregon or NYSDOT.

Perhaps I missed your point in your original post but you can find always find ways to invalidate comparisons of Oklahoma to other states. Every state is unique and has its own challenges. Just because someone criticizes Oklahoma doesn’t mean they hate it. You need to grow some thicker skin and stop subscribing to Oklahoma mantra of “if you don’t like it leave” or my personal favorite “don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord spit ya.” Give me a break.

PS, I respect you Mug and I apologize in advance if my post came off harsh but telling me I hate Oklahoma is ridiculous!

PPS, I can talk a lot more sh!t on California than Oklahoma even though I love both of those places.

WitWhy
12-24-2019, 08:36 AM
I wonder how many cars a day were driving on this while it was built.

Otherwise itís basically the JKT from SH 74 to I 40.

Well none, obviously, on the 22 new miles of road, but I-10 was full of cars while they built the new interchange on the west side. The SE interchange was built years ago for the San Tan portion of the 202 and anticipation of this South Mountain portion.
The OTA did a good job widening the Turner and did it quickly but their interchange designs are still a joke and they still end/ add the left lane. The #1 lane should always be the #1 lane. Through traffic is accustomed to staying to the left and transitioning traffic does so to the right (well in other states)

Plutonic Panda
12-24-2019, 09:00 AM
OKC is actually one of the few cities they doesn’t have a plague of left exits and entrances around its downtown.

Bellaboo
12-24-2019, 09:13 AM
Oklahoma consistently ranks at the bottom of every good list and the top of every bad one. Sure there are exceptions to that but anecdotally Iíve noticed what I said to be the rule. The bashing of Oklahoma shouldnít be surprising and doesnít mean those that do bash it hate the state.

Arizona has a much better active transportation network, road network, better infrastructure, better quality of life with more amenities, more social services, and Arizona places higher emphasis on land preservation. Mass transit is better in Arizona in general too.

These are steps Arizona has taken to improve itself and it is why the state is doing better than Oklahoma.

.

My son has lived in Scottsdale for 5 years now. I've got other relatives from the Phoenix area that have been there for years. They all say the traffic in their metro sucks terrible. Even though they are building new roads, the population rivals Dallas. They hate driving in Phoenix, say drivers are dangerous, etc. and it takes forever to get anywhere during the rush.

SEMIweather
12-24-2019, 12:09 PM
My son has lived in Scottsdale for 5 years now. I've got other relatives from the Phoenix area that have been there for years. They all say the traffic in their metro sucks terrible. Even though they are building new roads, the population rivals Dallas. They hate driving in Phoenix, say drivers are dangerous, etc. and it takes forever to get anywhere during the rush.

This is, honestly, just about anywhere in America. The only reason OKC's traffic isn't worse is because we're only the 40th largest Metro in the country. And even saying that, the traffic here has certainly gotten worse in recent years. If we ever have a Metro population that rivals DFW's, we'll almost certainly have traffic to rival DFW as well.

GoGators
12-24-2019, 12:38 PM
Oklahoma is not a donor state through the federal gas tax. Currently, Texas is the only state in the entire country who sends more money to the fed via the gas tax than it receives back. The Highway Trust Fund regularly raids other fed revenue sources to bridge the funding gap. Similarly, The majority of ODOTs budget comes from State income taxes not from the state gas tax. The system is broken because the combined state and federal gas taxes donít come close to paying for any of these projects. No large state is blackmailing any other states. In fact, the Highway Trust Fund formula for distributing the fed gas tax dollars overly benefits rural areas and low population states.