View Full Version : I-235 / I-44 Interchange



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Plutonic Panda
12-16-2018, 07:27 PM
I mean, they're just awful, but having a boatload of flyovers in a climate like this gets dicey.

494/35W is one of the worst. 694/35W will get reworked starting next year as part of the project adding MnPass lanes to 35W there (at least I hope)
Do you live there now? For some reason I thought you lived in Denver. How do you like it up there?

bradh
12-16-2018, 08:27 PM
We've been up here over a year now. Absolutely love it

Of Sound Mind
12-17-2018, 06:05 AM
Seems these latter posts could be part of a different and/or private conversation rather than on a thread about I-235/I-44 interchange construction.

OKC Guy
01-19-2019, 12:17 PM
Question

Have we had a big/hard rain since completion of last phase?

Driving north and around the overpasses (train and road) on the east side it seems to me the drains are not that big. And since the road is so close to wall I wonder if they solved the flooding problem. I know the road is cantered that way but the off ramp lane is very close to wall which is where water would go to drain (or stand).

I have not seen any problems but can’t recall if any big fast rain since completed. Even if it stands a bit maybe it would only impede the off ramp too which would be a huge improvement over old floods here. And it may not stand at all, but while driving here it seemed like the drains are small.

Thoughts?

Of Sound Mind
01-19-2019, 04:34 PM
Question

Have we had a big/hard rain since completion of last phase?

Driving north and around the overpasses (train and road) on the east side it seems to me the drains are not that big. And since the road is so close to wall I wonder if they solved the flooding problem. I know the road is cantered that way but the off ramp lane is very close to wall which is where water would go to drain (or stand).

I have not seen any problems but can’t recall if any big fast rain since completed. Even if it stands a bit maybe it would only impede the off ramp too which would be a huge improvement over old floods here. And it may not stand at all, but while driving here it seemed like the drains are small.

Thoughts?
Yes, there have been at least a couple heavy rainfall events since its completion and I've driven through the trouble area in the midst of one of those. It seems to me that the drainage is greatly improved and I didn't see any significant across-the-road flooding like we've had in the past.

OKC Guy
01-19-2019, 04:39 PM
Yes, there have been at least a couple heavy rainfall events since its completion and I've driven through the trouble area in the midst of one of those. It seems to me that the drainage is greatly improved and I didn't see any significant across-the-road flooding like we've had in the past.

Thanks, thats great news then. I avoid it in huge backups (it always backs up in weather regardless) so hadn’t had a chance to see. It used to be really bad so its great to see they resolved it.

Do they have any pumps or is it all gravity? I do recall some large concrete boxes being put in during construction so they must be doing the work.

Snowman
01-19-2019, 07:14 PM
Thanks, thats great news then. I avoid it in huge backups (it always backs up in weather regardless) so hadn’t had a chance to see. It used to be really bad so its great to see they resolved it.

Do they have any pumps or is it all gravity? I do recall some large concrete boxes being put in during construction so they must be doing the work.

It is all going to be gravity. There is a fairly deep ~100 foot wide river bed directly south of where 235 & 44 cross with a tributary paralleling 235 to the railroad on the west side, so how drainage was bad in that area previously is a bit stunning, since that is probably one of the easier places on the interstate system to construct drainage when needed. It seems like the original team just underestimate the flow they needed, and with basically no retention area for pooling on parts of the east side it seems inconceivable they would not have known they needed some level of drainage.

OKC Guy
03-16-2019, 09:54 AM
Major phase of ongoing construction project on I-235 in Oklahoma City to begin soon
POSTED 2:04 PM, MARCH 15, 2019, BY LILI ZHENG, UPDATED AT 06:18PM, MARCH 15, 2019

OKLAHOMA CITY -- A major phase of the ongoing construction project at the state's largest interstate work zone will begin later this month.

The two-year project, set to begin March 25, will primarily impact northbound and southbound I-235 between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St.; however, the Oklahoma Department of Transportation says the interstate will remain open to two lanes of traffic in each direction majority of the time.

"It’s probably going to be the most disruptive [phase] because we normally work from the outside of an interchange and work our way into the interchange, so this is going to be right in the heart in the interchange over I-44 on I-235 where two major interstates intersect," Terri Angier with ODOT said. "Each of these interstates carry over about 100,000 cars a day so it’s a major, major project for us."

One of those drivers is Arthur Weschler. He lives in Dallas but is on the road frequently for work.

"As a traveling salesman, yes. I run into this all over Texas and Oklahoma. I prefer they do the construction at night when there’s less traffic. During the day, it becomes a major nuisance," Weschler said. "You can’t say it enough, you just got to be patient going through the construction."

In total, the project includes 11 new bridges with two flyover bridges to be built during this next phase.

"It’s going to look much like the ones we see in Dallas or other major metropolitan areas and it’s going to have two very long flyover bridges that tie over the ramp," Angier said. "It’s almost hard to imagine what it will look like, because we’ve never had one like this in the state but we are very excited that it will move traffic more than anything, a lot more smoothly than it does today."

ODOT is encouraging motorists to start planning now for the following traffic impacts later in the project:

Up to four full weekend closures of I-235 to remove and hang bridge beams;
One weekend closure of I-44 for bridge beams;
A nearly two-month closure of the northbound I-235 off-ramp to N. 63rd St.;
Closure of the northbound I-235 off-ramp to N. 50th St. to complete the ramp widening;
Intermittent lane closures of N. 50th St. and Santa Fe Ave. for intersection modification; and
An up to two week closure of the southbound I-235/US-77 off-ramp to eastbound I-44 and the westbound I-44 on-ramp to southbound I-235 while these two clover leaf ramps are widened and improved.

https://kfor.com/2019/03/15/major-phase-of-ongoing-construction-project-on-i-235-in-oklahoma-city-to-begin-soon/

jn1780
03-19-2019, 10:54 AM
So it begins.............Again ...........Monday.

Looks like I-235 Northbound in the afternoon is a no go now. Already bad with that bottleneck.

OKC Guy
03-19-2019, 01:11 PM
So it begins.............Again ...........Monday.

Looks like I-235 Northbound in the afternoon is a no go now. Already bad with that bottleneck.

Ironically this is one of the best weeks of year to drive it with spring break and school out its been great. And we are going from best of the year to worst (and 2 years of worst).

I wonder what kind of early finish incentives are built in maybe with luck it only takes 1.5 years vice 2. We had good weather for the last phase but I am afraid that may not repeat again. At least it starts in early spring vice late fall so has a chance to get off running.

We’ll see how much rain we get this weekend though.

Mon will likely be a major problem. People coming back from break will forget about this until they get stuck in it.

I also noticed southbound they are prepong for some work and had flashing signs saying work starts Mon. Is that just warning drivers who may come back north or are they going to work on south at same time? I thought north was where next week starts but maybe there’s some road overlap and they need to slow southbound too.

jn1780
03-26-2019, 09:50 PM
There is a traffic camera near the interchange that has a halfway decent point of view.

https://www.oktraffic.org/cameras/camdetails.php?fname=10_55_30_89.jpg#

Of Sound Mind
03-27-2019, 06:13 AM
There is a traffic camera near the interchange that has a halfway decent point of view.

https://www.oktraffic.org/cameras/camdetails.php?fname=10_55_30_89.jpg#
Thanks for this! I didn't know this cam existed. I've seen the cams along 235, but not this one!

bombermwc
03-27-2019, 07:06 AM
I'm still frustrated that we are ignoring the partially completed 240/35 interchange still. I'm not saying that the 44/235 one isn't a mess and needs to be done, but i'd like to see 240 completed too. There are still some weird areas with that interchange because of its sort-of-complete state.

jn1780
03-27-2019, 07:11 AM
I'm still frustrated that we are ignoring the partially completed 240/35 interchange still. I'm not saying that the 44/235 one isn't a mess and needs to be done, but i'd like to see 240 completed too. There are still some weird areas with that interchange because of its sort-of-complete state.

?

It feels like its incomplete because it is incomplete. I think in a year or two it starts back up.

BoulderSooner
03-27-2019, 07:27 AM
I'm still frustrated that we are ignoring the partially completed 240/35 interchange still. I'm not saying that the 44/235 one isn't a mess and needs to be done, but i'd like to see 240 completed too. There are still some weird areas with that interchange because of its sort-of-complete state.


?

It feels like its incomplete because it is incomplete. I think in a year or two it starts back up.

84 mil in 2021 on the ODOT 8 year plan

Of Sound Mind
03-27-2019, 07:37 AM
Maybe we can discuss the 240/35 issue on the 240/35 thread instead of the 235/44 thread.

bombermwc
03-28-2019, 06:47 AM
Thanks Of Sound Mound, i was worried that the forum police wouldn't come tell me what to do....

My reason for discussing it here was because the 235/44 project seems to be taking the front seat and eating up the lions share of the funds while the 240 project gets left with the scraps. They already did a comparatively crappy job on the design and quality portions compared to what's being done on 235. So like usual, the south side project seems to be getting the shaft.

Pete
03-28-2019, 07:23 AM
I noticed last night they had earth movers all around the I-44/I-235 intersection and had started to clear trees.

jedicurt
03-28-2019, 07:35 AM
Thanks Of Sound Mound, i was worried that the forum police wouldn't come tell me what to do....

My reason for discussing it here was because the 235/44 project seems to be taking the front seat and eating up the lions share of the funds while the 240 project gets left with the scraps. They already did a comparatively crappy job on the design and quality portions compared to what's being done on 235. So like usual, the south side project seems to be getting the shaft.

the funds for each project are separate. it's all a matter of when they were planned in the 8 year plan. remember that the I-235/I-44 exchange started years before anything at I-240/I-35... and so i'm certain there are those who thought that project ate into the timelines of this one... but the reality is that these things are planned out years in advance so that they can maximize both the State Budget, as well as the Federal Dollars for each project.

jn1780
03-28-2019, 07:47 AM
the funds for each project are separate. it's all a matter of when they were planned in the 8 year plan. remember that the I-235/I-44 exchange started years before anything at I-240/I-35... and so i'm certain there are those who thought that project ate into the timelines of this one... but the reality is that these things are planned out years in advance so that they can maximize both the State Budget, as well as the Federal Dollars for each project.

The designs of both seem similar to me(half of the cloverleaf eliminated).2 to 3 years apart in construction is not that long when you take into consideration that these have been talked about for 10 plus years.

Edit: I would almost argue that the 240 interchanges is a little bit better of a design how there is only one cloverleaf for each direction travel as opposed to having dedicated land for cloverleaf traffic like for 235.

OKC Guy
03-28-2019, 08:34 AM
Thanks Of Sound Mound, i was worried that the forum police wouldn't come tell me what to do....

My reason for discussing it here was because the 235/44 project seems to be taking the front seat and eating up the lions share of the funds while the 240 project gets left with the scraps. They already did a comparatively crappy job on the design and quality portions compared to what's being done on 235. So like usual, the south side project seems to be getting the shaft.

235/44 was planned long long ago way before 240. Here is an article from 2010 but it way before that they started planning and figuring out when to ask for money:

Plans Revealed For I-235, I-44 Interchange Makeover
Wednesday, December 29th 2010, 7:43 PM PST

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Metro residents are getting a glimpse into the future at Oklahoma's brand new "super highway," but don't expect it to be complete anytime soon.

Plans are now in place to make over the interstate interchange at I-235 and I-44 in northwest Oklahoma City. Work begins next year, but it could take up to 10 years to complete the entire makeover that includes expanded lanes on I-235 and new on and off ramps for the connections to I-44.

The total cost of the project is $150 million and is being paid for with state and federal funds, and that is part of the reason the project will take so long to complete.

According to the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, the money it takes to get the entire job complete isn't available all at once. ODOT receives only a certain amount of funds every fiscal year, and that's why the project is divided into different phases.

http://www.news9.com/story/13757717/plans-revealed-for-i-235-i-44-interchange-makeover

Of Sound Mind
03-28-2019, 10:34 AM
Thanks Of Sound Mound, i was worried that the forum police wouldn't come tell me what to do....
Of Sound MIND... but you are most welcome regardless.


My reason for discussing it here was because the 235/44 project seems to be taking the front seat and eating up the lions share of the funds while the 240 project gets left with the scraps.
But your focus was on 240, which has its own thread... and these threads get derailed enough as it is... if you want compare and contrast, and lament 240 getting the shaft, there's a whole thread dedicated to that project.


So like usual, the south side project seems to be getting the shaft.
As it should be

jn1780
03-28-2019, 11:45 AM
No project is getting the shaft.

jccouger
03-28-2019, 01:25 PM
As it should be

???

Can't tell if you are joking or not.

Of Sound Mind
03-28-2019, 01:35 PM
???

Can't tell if you are joking or not.
Just pokin' the bear... I do wish they would move that project along with greater vigor, but alas that discussion is for another thread... ;-)

Plutonic Panda
03-28-2019, 02:14 PM
No project is getting the shaft.

It could be argued that the OG&E center got the shaft. You know, the canceled OG&E complex due northwest of Lake Ballsack.

bombermwc
03-29-2019, 07:10 AM
The reason i feel like the 240 project is getting the shaft, is that they completed only 1 portion of the entire project on 240. Yes, it was the most helpful in getting traffic moving from a mile-long backed-up southbound on-ramp. But in that same time, they haven't touched a single other portion of the project. Not to mention the portions they have done, were POORLY done and their "design" elements aren't even square. They don't line up at all. South got misaligned squares. 235 got artistic buffalo scenes. Come on. All the while, we're down to the very last phase of the 235/44 project to basically finish the majority of it off. What's left after this phase is minor in comparison.

So yeah, it does feel like the 240 interchange is getting the shaft because its not being given the same attention as the other concurrent project. The 240 junction issues are what cause so much of the 35 traffic to get bottle necked and slow down because of the way they merge/etc. If we can get this project completed, it helps 35 more than it helps 240. 240 itself is flowing great after phase 1. It's the merging to 35 (mostly south, but those dang cloverleafs are still extremely dangerous) that still sucks, but at least doesn't back up like it did now that there are 2 ramp lanes.

The projects are separate, but they are interwoven in terms of budget cycles. So yeah, i'll keep talking about it here if i feel like its relevant to what's going on with 235. Since 240 is comparatively a lot more simple and less expensive, it makes even less sense that its being ignored so much.

TheTravellers
03-29-2019, 08:40 AM
The way OKC and ODOT prioritize projects is just bizarre sometimes. Why start 100 of them, then let 90 sit idle for months? This is the most annoying metro area I've lived WRT road construction due to this. NW 30th between May and Penn is a 2-lane road 1 mile long, yet it's taken them weeks (if not months by this point) to strip and resurface it (they're not done yet) - why not just start, bang it out, finish it, move on to the next one, instead of hopscotching around on 100 of them (which is *way* more disruptive to *way* more people).

jedicurt
03-29-2019, 08:43 AM
The reason i feel like the 240 project is getting the shaft, is that they completed only 1 portion of the entire project on 240. Yes, it was the most helpful in getting traffic moving from a mile-long backed-up southbound on-ramp. But in that same time, they haven't touched a single other portion of the project. Not to mention the portions they have done, were POORLY done and their "design" elements aren't even square. They don't line up at all. South got misaligned squares. 235 got artistic buffalo scenes. Come on. All the while, we're down to the very last phase of the 235/44 project to basically finish the majority of it off. What's left after this phase is minor in comparison.

So yeah, it does feel like the 240 interchange is getting the shaft because its not being given the same attention as the other concurrent project. The 240 junction issues are what cause so much of the 35 traffic to get bottle necked and slow down because of the way they merge/etc. If we can get this project completed, it helps 35 more than it helps 240. 240 itself is flowing great after phase 1. It's the merging to 35 (mostly south, but those dang cloverleafs are still extremely dangerous) that still sucks, but at least doesn't back up like it did now that there are 2 ramp lanes.

The projects are separate, but they are interwoven in terms of budget cycles. So yeah, i'll keep talking about it here if i feel like its relevant to what's going on with 235. Since 240 is comparatively a lot more simple and less expensive, it makes even less sense that its being ignored so much.

it was planned this way to start with... if anything, think of it if they had pushed off all of it till they were going to do the whole thing? then we would still have the old terrible 240-to-35 exit, and that would be really shafting those that use it.

the basically pushed up literally the worst part of it to alleviate the biggest problems, so it was done sooner for all who use...

it's all a matter of perspective.

jn1780
04-01-2019, 07:50 AM
While its unfortunate there are no buffalo(I imagine close proximity to the capital is why they put buffalo at I-235 and I-44), I-235 will see a significantly greater improvement to traffic flow then I-35 post construction. If your arguing for I-240 then sure I would buy that argument since the dangerous merge lanes are on I-240 and I-240 will see an extra lane added in both directions. I-240 is about equal in terms of traffic count to I-235 though.

MagzOK
04-01-2019, 04:58 PM
Back around the late 1990s / early 2000s ODOT came out and did the environmental impact studies and design for a full interchange there at 35/240. They started with buying right of way in bits and pieces including houses and the apartment complex on the NW side. On the NE side, ODOT started negotiating with the then owners of the NE side of the interchange (the owners of the mall properties) when, during negotiations, the mall property sold parcels along the interchange (or did something I'm not sure those details) which ultimately ended up resulting in a Best Buy being built and a couple other buildings. Negotiations stopped at that point and ODOT abandoned their full redesign due to not being able to purchase the desired right-of-way on the NE corner there, thus the environmental and design started all over again from scratch at that point.

OKC Guy
04-01-2019, 05:02 PM
They are working hard on this project lets hope they use any incentives and finish in 1.5 years vice 2. So far not too bad but people have been out on spring breaks too.

Plutonic Panda
04-01-2019, 05:38 PM
OkDOT had originally intended for the I-35/I-240 interchange to be completed quicker than it has taken based on some of their past press releases. My guess is that the state budget cuts a couple years affect this. They had originally intended to start and do one phase right after the each non stopping construction until it was finished. Obviously that has changed.

It appears they are combining all remaining phases into one construction package like the I-235/I-44 interchange. Even the last planned phases for the I-235/I-44 interchange rebuilding and expanding the Lincoln access ramps will start next year before this phase wraps up. It looks like work will begin next year on the I-240/I-35 interchange and all phases will be U/C at once. Not a bad trade off.

tyeomans
04-11-2019, 01:29 PM
Out of curiosity, does anybody (who knows how construction works) understand how this next phase is taking place? It's amazing to me how massive this interchange remodel is going to be. They have already moved lots of dirt and are kind of all over the place with it. Are they doing everything at once instead of focusing on a certain area? Will the flyover bridges go up before everything else?

jn1780
04-11-2019, 03:40 PM
Out of curiosity, does anybody (who knows how construction works) understand how this next phase is taking place? It's amazing to me how massive this interchange remodel is going to be. They have already moved lots of dirt and are kind of all over the place with it. Are they doing everything at once instead of focusing on a certain area? Will the flyover bridges go up before everything else?

First phase involves overpass structures, south bound bridge over deep fork river/drainage canal, northbound bridge over I-44. ramps/bridge structures on the northeast end. They can't move forwarded with northbound lanes and approaches until overpass structures are completed and northbound cloverleafs are removed. Can't move forward with southbound lanes and ramps until northbound bridge and lanes are carrying traffic. So that kind of gives you an idea on sequencing. Your going to be seeing over 20 plus bridge piers going up to support overpass structures in the coming months.

tyeomans
04-11-2019, 03:56 PM
Thanks for the reply! I find this type of stuff super fascinating, and I can't wait to see all the new bridges start to go up!

SSEiYah
04-11-2019, 10:47 PM
Anyone know the plan for the new bridges over I-44? I mean they have to replace both of them, are they going to put in a 3 lane bridge and run 4 narrow thru lanes through it or what? If they plan on running 1 lane each direction, that would be one hell of a backup, even if folks are using alternative routes.

jn1780
04-11-2019, 11:03 PM
Anyone know the plan for the new bridges over I-44? I mean they have to replace both of them, are they going to put in a 3 lane bridge and run 4 narrow thru lanes through it or what? If they plan on running 1 lane each direction, that would be one hell of a backup, even if folks are using alternative routes.

New northbound bridge will be built beside existing northbound bridge. Once traffic is shifted to new northbound bridge and new overpasses, Old northbound half of bridge will be demolished and southbound side built. Old southbound will then be demolished and dedicated southbound cloverleaf exit/entrance lane bridge will be built. Western cloverleafs will stay open using temp pavement while the last 1/3rd of bridge is being built.

Pete
04-22-2019, 06:38 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23444042119a.jpg

OKC Guy
04-22-2019, 06:56 AM
New northbound bridge will be built beside existing northbound bridge. Once traffic is shifted to new northbound bridge and new overpasses, Old northbound half of bridge will be demolished and southbound side built. Old southbound will then be demolished and dedicated southbound cloverleaf exit/entrance lane bridge will be built. Western cloverleafs will stay open using temp pavement while the last 1/3rd of bridge is being built.

Are you sure? It looks to me like they will build west of existing overpasses first which would be southbound first?

jn1780
04-22-2019, 07:57 AM
Are you sure? It looks to me like they will build west of existing overpasses first which would be southbound first?

The staging documents that came out when project was first let suggested this. So far they have been following it. Since everything is being shifted to the east, they would have to do northbound bridge first. Granted there is a lot of concurrent work going on. The construction on southbound lanes to the north of I-44 is jumping in sequence. The contractor probably felt they could jump ahead without disrupting traffic.

The first set of overpass piers are being dug within northwest cloverleaf.

OKC Guy
04-22-2019, 10:08 AM
The staging documents that came out when project was first let suggested this. So far they have been following it. Since everything is being shifted to the east, they would have to do northbound bridge first. Granted there is a lot of concurrent work going on. The construction on southbound lanes to the north of I-44 is jumping in sequence. The contractor probably felt they could jump ahead without disrupting traffic.

The first set of overpass piers are being dug within northwest cloverleaf.

All I know when driving by is most work is being done just west of southbound lanes. Also looking at site it seems to me there is more room to build west than east (for overpasses). When looking at pictures if they were to build east side first that would mean even more of a misalignment when factoring in the north and south sections on either side of overpasses.

So to me it makes more sense to build the west (south bound) side first due to eventual alignment.

jn1780
04-22-2019, 12:56 PM
All I know when driving by is most work is being done just west of southbound lanes. Also looking at site it seems to me there is more room to build west than east (for overpasses). When looking at pictures if they were to build east side first that would mean even more of a misalignment when factoring in the north and south sections on either side of overpasses.

So to me it makes more sense to build the west (south bound) side first due to eventual alignment.

Here are the suggested sequencing plans. Either way its going to get pretty messy before this project is over with. It is a significant alignment shift to the east.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/296-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(1).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/297-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(2).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/298-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(3).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/299-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(4).pdf

OKC Guy
04-22-2019, 01:24 PM
Here are the suggested sequencing plans. Either way its going to get pretty messy before this project is over with. It is a significant alignment shift to the east.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/296-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(1).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/297-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(2).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/298-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(3).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2018/plans1811/530_1811_NHPPI-2350-(009)PM_0903327/299-0903327-SUGGESTED%20SEQUENCE%20OF%20CONSTRUCTION%20(4).pdf

Thanks for links. I looked at them on phone and its hard to get a nice view but it appears what you are saying is true by those. But then I look at overhead posted by Pete and the overpasses already “jaunt” to the east so it seems moving them one spot west puts them in better alignment for finished product. Plus driving by it seems they have more room to do west (south) first. Maybe the attachments were changed since then? Not sure how old they are?

brianinok
04-22-2019, 01:28 PM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/23444042119a.jpgIs that hotel in the bottom of the photo staying? It looks awfully close to the new construction.

OKC Guy
04-22-2019, 01:28 PM
https://www.ok.gov/odot/images/I235Rendering_web.jpg

It looks like from this rendering: 5 new bridges that cross Deep Fork (including flyover from NB I-235/US-77 to WB I-44), 3 bridges for I-235/US-77 over I-44, 1 flyover from EB I-44 to NB US-77 and 1 bridge from that flyover to NW 63rd, and 1 bridge from NB I-235/US-77 to NW 63rd.

Replying to this so we can see the completed view but its hard to tell by this if overpasses are moved one spot east or west. The current overpasses already seem very easterly but as long as they complete (and early) Iíll be happy

jn1780
04-22-2019, 01:42 PM
The documents are from November so they are final design. The current southbound bridge is sitting where the new two lane bridge that will sit that exclusively serve the two cloverleaf lanes, so everything is expanding east to accommodate additional lanes.

tyeomans
04-22-2019, 01:55 PM
This is mind-boggling and fascinating to witness. Too bad there isn't some sort of time-lapse camera set up somewhere on one of the adjacent buildings.

jn1780
04-22-2019, 02:04 PM
Is that hotel in the bottom of the photo staying? It looks awfully close to the new construction.

Yes, There is going to be a 63rd st off ramp overpass structure that will go over ramp coming from eastbound I-44 and westbound I-44 ramps to northbound Broadway extension. This structure will be built to the south of the hotel.

jn1780
04-22-2019, 02:04 PM
This is mind-boggling and fascinating to witness. Too bad there isn't some sort of time-lapse camera set up somewhere on one of the adjacent buildings.

Yeah, I wish we had something better than a low resolution traffic camera.

OKC Guy
04-22-2019, 02:27 PM
The documents are from November so they are final design. The current southbound bridge is sitting where the new two lane bridge that will sit that exclusively serve the two cloverleaf lanes, so everything is expanding east to accommodate additional lanes.

Thanks!

My main interest is in knowing the more you “bend” a road “more curvy than straight” seems to cause more driver slowdowns.

One other comment and this lends to us (ODOT) not thinking ahead for growth. They are adding flyovers going 1-44 East but not adding them I-44 West. More traffic growth in this area is likely to come from the east than the west. Edmond and NorthEast OKC wanting use 35S to 44W to 235S will still need to use an antique cloverleaf to get to 235S.

Of Sound Mind
04-22-2019, 02:31 PM
All I know is that it has to be a nightmare to plan each phase of this part of the project alone... I truly marvel at what these engineers do, even when it's inconvenient driving through there during the process... this is a truly massive, complex ordeal.

jn1780
04-22-2019, 03:37 PM
Thanks!

My main interest is in knowing the more you ¬“bend¬” a road ¬“more curvy than straight¬” seems to cause more driver slowdowns.

One other comment and this lends to us (ODOT) not thinking ahead for growth. They are adding flyovers going 1-44 East but not adding them I-44 West. More traffic growth in this area is likely to come from the east than the west. Edmond and NorthEast OKC wanting use 35S to 44W to 235S will still need to use an antique cloverleaf to get to 235S.

I probably shouldn't have used said significant shift east. They are basically adding 4 lanes total. 2 separated SB dedicated cloverleaf lanes, 1 additional NB and southbound lane. So it is still a shift to the east just make room for those additional lanes.

It would be nice if this was a full stack, but the reality is Oklahoma can't afford it. It would take additional right of way and money to make that happen. The additional levels would have to start further back to still have a proper incline and the number and size of the piers would cost more. It would probably be double the cost at least.

OKC Guy
04-22-2019, 04:15 PM
I probably shouldn't have used said significant shift east. They are basically adding 4 lanes total. 2 separated SB dedicated cloverleaf lanes, 1 additional NB and southbound lane. So it is still a shift to the east just make room for those additional lanes.

It would be nice if this was a full stack, but the reality is Oklahoma can't afford it. It would take additional right of way and money to make that happen. The additional levels would have to start further back to still have a proper incline and the number and size of the piers would cost more. It would probably be double the cost at least.

Agree. But it will cost way more down the road. Kinda like the Turnpike/Hefner Parkway interchange mess. To go from turnpike eastbound to Hef Parkway southbound requires one to get off on side road (mem) and then navigate over all lanes and then stop at light. Turn right and get back up to speed to merge onto parkway. We are always 2 steps behind lol.

OkiePoke
04-22-2019, 04:27 PM
Now, what is OTA and ODOT going to do to combat the traffic backup at the Kirkpatrick? For years, the I-44 bottleneck slowed the traffic at 235 and Kirkpatrick. Without this slowdown, more traffic will arrive at this interchange causing more congestion.

With 122nd merging N and a majority of the traffic getting on the turnpike and no one knowing how to merge, traffic currently backs up for a mile or two. What can be anticipated after I-44/235 is complete?

Could a possible solution be to modify the 122nd to North 235 by having the merge area North of the Kirkpatrick entry?

jn1780
04-22-2019, 04:40 PM
Now, what is OTA and ODOT going to do to combat the traffic backup at the Kirkpatrick? For years, the I-44 bottleneck slowed the traffic at 235 and Kirkpatrick. Without this slowdown, more traffic will arrive at this interchange causing more congestion.

With 122nd merging N and a majority of the traffic getting on the turnpike and no one knowing how to merge, traffic currently backs up for a mile or two. What can be anticipated after I-44/235 is complete?

Could a possible solution be to modify the 122nd to North 235 by having the merge area North of the Kirkpatrick entry?

How much is from 122nd vs the traffic that piles up on the actual ramp due to the merge from I-235 northbound? The merging needs to take place on Kirkpatrick and not on the ramp.

OKC Guy
04-22-2019, 05:01 PM
Now, what is OTA and ODOT going to do to combat the traffic backup at the Kirkpatrick? For years, the I-44 bottleneck slowed the traffic at 235 and Kirkpatrick. Without this slowdown, more traffic will arrive at this interchange causing more congestion.

With 122nd merging N and a majority of the traffic getting on the turnpike and no one knowing how to merge, traffic currently backs up for a mile or two. What can be anticipated after I-44/235 is complete?

Could a possible solution be to modify the 122nd to North 235 by having the merge area North of the Kirkpatrick entry?

I mentioned this exact thing earlier in thread and am glad someone else sees it! The current 44/235 slowdown throttles traffic.

Besides your idea they could have created an overpass (n235 to west turnpike) and have it exit from far left lane of 235n. To do so would have required they merge in the left lane of turnpike west but its not to be. Would have needed thought of prior to going from 2 to 3 lanes expansion.

And then after the long wait just to get from 235n to west turnpike once you get to turnpike you have exiting traffic to get to toll booths. Add in entering drivers don’t realize they have a gas pedal and need to push it to get up to speed before merging onto turnpike.

Related other area to explain. If going 235 south as you approach 36th there is an on ramp and then 3/4 of mile of lane before you have to merge or exit. Yet for some reason those drivers entering from 36th have to try and merge immediately even though they are not up to speed. This creates even more kaos as the 235s cars have to slow down to avoid hitting them. Its stupid and dangerous (drivers). They have almost a full mile to merge! After you get up to speed of traffic use your blinker and you can easily merge without causing a hazard! They need to put a concrete barrier for1/4 mile to keep them from merging so fast, since drivers are so bad to do this on their own.

So the same thing happens from those entering turnpike from 235n. They fail to get to 70 and try and merge going 50.

OkiePoke
04-23-2019, 08:31 AM
How much is from 122nd vs the traffic that piles up on the actual ramp due to the merge from I-235 northbound? The merging needs to take place on Kirkpatrick and not on the ramp.

Honestly, probably both. Both merging areas are poorly laid out.

HOT ROD
04-23-2019, 01:29 PM
I'm excited for Oklahoma's first 4-stack interchange, it's Long Overdue. Too bad they didn't design a flyover from W-Bound I-44 to S-Bound I-235 Downtown instead of keeping that old cloverleaf; we'd have a 5-stack.

Perhaps there a chance the rebuild of the I-40/I-44 interchange could be done.

BoulderSooner
04-24-2019, 06:28 AM
I'm excited for Oklahoma's first 4-stack interchange, it's Long Overdue. Too bad they didn't design a flyover from W-Bound I-44 to S-Bound I-235 Downtown instead of keeping that old cloverleaf; we'd have a 5-stack.

Perhaps there a chance the rebuild of the I-40/I-44 interchange could be done.



keep in mind the old cloverleaf's are going away these will be bigger cloverleafs that don't merge with the mainline southbound 235