View Full Version : I-235 / I-44 Interchange



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OKCisOK4me
01-27-2018, 02:09 PM
Is Span #2 being moved as we speak or will that happen tomorrow?

5alive
01-27-2018, 03:02 PM
I am sorry to be asking so many questions but this is all quite fascinating. (1) Does the RR pay for some of the cost of the bridge. It seems they would since it is only being built because of their need and they are the only ones using it. (2) Why is this structure so much larger and complex than the one it is replacing?

Jeepnokc
01-27-2018, 03:42 PM
Is Span #2 being moved as we speak or will that happen tomorrow?

I think it is suppose to me in the morning.

rezman
01-27-2018, 05:36 PM
I am sorry to be asking so many questions but this is all quite fascinating. (1) Does the RR pay for some of the cost of the bridge. It seems they would since it is only being built because of their need and they are the only ones using it. (2) Why is this structure so much larger and complex than the one it is replacing?

I can’t tell you who pays for what, but there are some other sharp folks on here that can. As far as your question about the bridge trusses, the old plate girder bridge is made of 4 short spans , where the new trusses are 2 long spans, which combined are longer than the old bridge, so they must to be more substantial, not to mention the fact that the new structure is more than likely designed to handle more loads the old outdated spans.

jn1780
01-27-2018, 06:09 PM
I am sorry to be asking so many questions but this is all quite fascinating. (1) Does the RR pay for some of the cost of the bridge. It seems they would since it is only being built because of their need and they are the only ones using it. (2) Why is this structure so much larger and complex than the one it is replacing?
The railroad isn't paying for any of it. They don't need a bigger interstate. This structure is larger because it's crossing over a much larger span. Plus, they build a lot more reduncy into modern bridges.

rezman
01-27-2018, 09:21 PM
The 2 new spans total 550 ft combined.

http://www.benham.com/spotlight/benham-designs-new-railroad-bridge-over-i-235-oklahoma-city

pw405
01-28-2018, 02:02 PM
Here are a few more shots from the weekend, second piece seems to be roughly in place at least:

Just before noon:
http://i.imgur.com/Cf235aI.jpg (https://imgur.com/Cf235aI)

Happened to catch the train going by:
https://i.imgur.com/0gdkg9M.jpg


~2PM:
http://i.imgur.com/4mtD9L2.jpg (https://imgur.com/4mtD9L2)

turnpup
01-28-2018, 02:24 PM
After arriving too late yesterday to see any bridge motion, we decided to go this morning to catch the second span. We got there about 9:30 and there were quite a few people assembled to watch. As everyone was waiting (because the movement didn't start until about 10:30, as it turned out), I noticed what an interesting, diverse, group it was. There were probably 100 people there, of various races, ranging in age from infants all the way to senior citizens (a couple of whom braved the terrain on their walkers). Everyone was cheerful, and strangers were striking up conversations with one another. Little kids were playing in the dirt with their toy backhoes. Some folks brought their pets. It was such a nice experience, this group of people who simply were intrigued by the project and had ventured out to experience it firsthand.

rezman
01-28-2018, 02:26 PM
14412
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OKCisOK4me
01-28-2018, 04:47 PM
I was there for 4 hours from 10:30-2:30pm. It really was an interesting sight to see! Even after the transport was done, I stayed to watch them set it in place and hopefully remove the SPMTs but ended up leaving before that took place. People were coming up to me and asking all kinds of questions cause I had taken so much information in during the time I spent there. Folks were asking me if I was an engineer, lol. I told them, "no, just amazed to see something like this in person".

It truly was AWESOME! I'm certain I took at least 50 pictures and 8 videos.

jn1780
01-28-2018, 08:49 PM
They say it will be Tuesday morning before lanes reopen, but it looks like they could get them open by tomorrow morning if they continue to work on it all night. Northbound looks like it could be reopened now and their working on clearing the dirt pad from the southbound lanes.

Edit: As of 5 minutes ago, looks like NB is open.

rezman
01-28-2018, 09:24 PM
SB could be open by the morning. This operation was well done. All involved should be proud.

d-usa
01-28-2018, 09:45 PM
It’s interesting to read the contrast between the “lol, bleachers” posts and the posts of people who ended up watching the process this weekend

ShadowStrings
01-28-2018, 11:41 PM
So how long until they demo the old railroad bridge, and how long with 235 be closed for that?

Jeepnokc
01-29-2018, 06:09 AM
Looking at the live feeds, both NB and SB are open. Great job getting it open a day early.

turnpup
01-29-2018, 07:03 AM
Yes, it's open entirely. And--SHHH--don't tell anyone! Southbound into downtown was so nicely not crowded just now. I made the trip in record time.

d-usa
01-29-2018, 10:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W3hNqivSQY&

catch22
01-29-2018, 10:33 PM
So how long until they demo the old railroad bridge, and how long with 235 be closed for that?

If I had to bet they could probably accomplish that with an overnight closure. Those are much smaller and lighter compared to what they just installed.

jompster
01-29-2018, 11:24 PM
I'm kind of impressed with how this was done. It seems like it was an incredibly efficient way to get it done with minimal disruption - even with the highway closed for a couple days. The demo will be a piece of cake. The videos of this thing being "walked" into place were awesome.

rezman
01-30-2018, 06:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W3hNqivSQY&

Very cool. Thank you for sharing this. These spans are large enough to be a permanent reference point on the city's skyline.

Pete
01-30-2018, 07:24 AM
When do they cut over to the new railroad bridges and demolish the old ones?

jn1780
01-30-2018, 08:17 AM
I'm kind of impressed with how this was done. It seems like it was an incredibly efficient way to get it done with minimal disruption - even with the highway closed for a couple days. The demo will be a piece of cake. The videos of this thing being "walked" into place were awesome.

Resetting the transporters seemed to be the slowest part of the move.

Buffalo Bill
01-30-2018, 11:45 AM
When do they cut over to the new railroad bridges and demolish the old ones?

My sources say 4-5 weeks. The BNSF needs to come in and ballast the new alignment and bridge and then lay ties and track and then switch rail traffic. There is some a small amount of work on the bridge with waterproofing membrane on the ballast pan. Once rail traffic is moved, the old bridge can come out and things will speed up substantially on paving and retaining wall construction.

Pete
01-30-2018, 11:49 AM
^

Thank you!

I suspect when the old rail bridges are gone things should start to speed up.

OkiePoke
02-07-2018, 01:23 PM
Does anyone have a link to the drawings for this project?

T. Jamison
02-07-2018, 01:53 PM
https://www.ok.gov/odot/OFF_Broadway_and_I-235.html

OkiePoke
02-07-2018, 02:18 PM
I meant the actual design drawings. I thought they were posted here a while back but can't find them.

jn1780
02-15-2018, 08:03 PM
I saw a train on the new bridge this afternoon.

Bellaboo
02-16-2018, 07:02 AM
I saw a train on the new bridge this afternoon.

Now that was fast. An earlier post said 4 - 5 weeks and it's been less than 3.

Pete
02-16-2018, 07:16 AM
I wonder if what you saw on the new bridge was the track-laying machine.

It looks like a train and has been laying track on the north side of the bridge as of a few days ago.

May be working it's way south across the bridge.

I'll try and get out there with my drone in the next couple of days.

jn1780
02-16-2018, 07:24 AM
I wonder if what you saw on the new bridge was the track-laying machine.

It looks like a train and has been laying track on the north side of the bridge as of a few days ago.

May be working it's way south across the bridge.

I'll try and get out there with my drone in the next couple of days.

I saw the track laying machine the other day. This train was a regular freight train that would hold coal, gravel, etc. It wasn't going very fast so they could have been dumping gravel aggregate onto the newly laid track from this train.

LakeEffect
02-16-2018, 07:30 AM
I saw the track laying machine the other day. This train was a regular freight train that would hold coal, gravel, etc. It wasn't going very fast so they could have been dumping gravel aggregate onto the newly laid track from this train.

Yeah - it was a ballast train dumping rock on either side of the bridge. BNSF is moving quickly.

hipsterdoofus
02-16-2018, 08:56 AM
Is there any chance they will try to coordinate the next closure so they can do 50th street bridge work at the same time they tear down the old railroad bridge?

Buffalo Bill
02-16-2018, 01:21 PM
Is there any chance they will try to coordinate the next closure so they can do 50th street bridge work at the same time they tear down the old railroad bridge?

More than likely. The Contractor is paid incentives to minimize closures.

HOT ROD
02-19-2018, 12:32 PM
Is it a missed opportunity to not have installed a wider railroad bridge here to accommodate dual traffic?

It is well known that OKC desires a commuter rail system and this likely will be key for the Edmond-Downtown line. I'd hate to be in a bind later with this bridge when we had a chance to build a wider one that could have two tracks, one for passenger/commuter trains. Thoughts?

OkiePoke
02-19-2018, 12:58 PM
Is it a missed opportunity to not have installed a wider railroad bridge here to accommodate dual traffic?

It is well known that OKC desires a commuter rail system and this likely will be key for the Edmond-Downtown line. I'd hate to be in a bind later with this bridge when we had a chance to build a wider one that could have two tracks, one for passenger/commuter trains. Thoughts?

The exchange is a mile south. Most of the time, they will have a train wait near 23rd street.

HOT ROD
02-19-2018, 02:55 PM
i just hope it doesn't impact commuter rail efforts with the usual ("oh, we only have rail in the right-of-way" when we had the chance (at least) to design and build for the -immediate- future.

pw405
02-19-2018, 04:43 PM
i just hope it doesn't impact commuter rail efforts with the usual ("oh, we only have rail in the right-of-way" when we had the chance (at least) to design and build for the -immediate- future.

I know that Norman did this when they built the Robinson St. underpass.

jn1780
02-19-2018, 08:26 PM
I know that Norman did this when they built the Robinson St. underpass.

It looks like it was already a double track there at Robinson. The double track continues until reaching Rock Creek road.

I honestly don't know anything about railroad operations to say if it would have been wise to make the bridge over I-235 big enough for two tracks. I think its pretty much left to BNSF to determine where double track is needed. It doesn't seem a big deal as long as there is enough places for local freight trains to pull off to the side and allow trains passing through to pass. The expense of two tracks is a lot more than the I-235 bridge. They would need to widen the I-44 bridge, western bridge and lay new track all the way to Edmond. Its also not double track all the way to Norman either. That would be more track for BNSF to maintain and monitor which would ultimately make the operating expense for a commuter train a lot higher.

Speaking of underpasses, really wish there was one at Memorial. Its super annoying when a train backing into a side track and you have to wait for a guy to flip the switch to the track.

baralheia
02-20-2018, 03:36 PM
Is it a missed opportunity to not have installed a wider railroad bridge here to accommodate dual traffic?

It is well known that OKC desires a commuter rail system and this likely will be key for the Edmond-Downtown line. I'd hate to be in a bind later with this bridge when we had a chance to build a wider one that could have two tracks, one for passenger/commuter trains. Thoughts?

It is shortsighted, absolutely, and for exactly the reason you mention; the BNSF Red Rock Subdivision that traverses the Metro from north to south is one of the three most heavily used rail lines in the state of Oklahoma. The section from Edmond to Norman will absolutely need to be double-tracked over most (if not all) of that segment in order for the proposed commuter rail service and the existing freight rail traffic to coexist with minimal delay; not doing so will create a large bottleneck for all trains through this area. BNSF themselves has expressed a desire to double-track significant portions of the Red Rock Sub, especially through the Metro, to help reduce freight delays. Failing to install a bridge wide enough for two tracks (or at least a provision to allow a second bridge at a later date) is absolutely a mistake on ODOT's part.


The exchange is a mile south. Most of the time, they will have a train wait near 23rd street.

There is a crew change point and a relatively small yard (Nowers Yard) between NW 36th St and NW 23rd St, which could absorb some of the freight delays, but that would only work for northbound traffic. Without any changes, Southbound traffic would need to wait 3 miles north of the bridge in a siding just north of W Britton Rd.

hipsterdoofus
02-20-2018, 04:24 PM
Speaking of underpasses, really wish there was one at Memorial. Its super annoying when a train backing into a side track and you have to wait for a guy to flip the switch to the track.

Yup - had to do that twice this week. Or on Kell(e)y for that matter. Missed opportunity when they redid the interchange there and didn't put in an underpass.

<rant>Which by the way, this is going off topic, but the car dealership's constant shuttling of people back and forth to that lot across kelley is a massive accident waiting to happen </rant>

LakeEffect
02-27-2018, 09:08 AM
The new bridge is open for regular trains. Not sure if it's in test mode or fully in operation, but they'll be ready to tear down the old one quite soon. Got these pics this morning.

14495 14496

Via the Oklahoma Model Railroad Association:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1maL9kjal-A&feature=share

vaflyer
02-27-2018, 01:16 PM
I-235 is scheduled to close this weekend (March 2-5) to hang the beams for the 50th St. bridge.
I-235 tentatively is scheduled to close next weekend (March 9-12) to remove the old train bridge.

https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=40702

Pete
02-27-2018, 01:50 PM
I had noticed that they have already started to build the NW 50th expanse across the freeway.

Here's hoping after this next flurry of activity then can start moving this forward more quickly, straighten out that crazy curve and finish what they can.

warreng88
02-27-2018, 02:00 PM
Sorry for the delay. Pete asked me to post this earlier and I got caught up at work. Better late than never.

More detours expected around OKC bridge work

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record February 26, 2018

OKLAHOMA CITY – Two more closures of Interstate 235 are scheduled for bridge work on the first weekends of March, according to the Oklahoma Department of Transportation.

The construction of a new NW 50th Street overpass will require Broadway Extension traffic to be diverted for a few days beginning at 7 p.m. Friday until 6 a.m. Monday. A week after those beams are put in place, the old railroad bridge nearby will be taken down, which also will require detours around the same stretch of road. Traffic advisories were being drawn up for public dissemination Monday.

Construction in the area has not caused any scheduling problems for the Burlington Northern Santa Fe railroad company, spokesman Joe Sloan said, nor are any expected as BNSF completes the cutover from the old bridge track to the new one. A work train – the functional equivalent of a truck crew for street projects – is now installing the track.

Once the cutover and safety testing are finished, the old bridge will be transferred to Allen Contracting Inc. for removal. Transportation Department spokeswoman Lisa Salim said the company has plans to salvage large pieces of the structure, although details were not immediately available.

The new steel structure is considered BNSF property now, and the company is expected to work with ODOT on any repairs needed over time, Salim said.

The bridges are part of an $88 million project to widen and reconstruct Interstate 235 between Interstate 44 and N. 36th Street. It is the largest single package of work in the department’s history and is proceeding according to schedule.

Many other such projects have come to a halt. In response to more than $840 million in cumulative cuts over the last several years, department officials have pushed more than 600 construction projects down the calendar and eliminated the possibility of starting dozens of others across the state for at least eight years.

Salim said the construction of the double-truss railroad bridge proved surprisingly popular with the public. The department broadcast live video online of the spans being moved into place at the end of January, attracting more than 17,000 viewers from around the world. Several hundred people showed up at the site to watch in person.

catch22
02-27-2018, 06:15 PM
Now that BNSF owns the bridge maybe they'll paint it. Looks like it was a used bridge from some rust belt city.

Rover
02-27-2018, 06:55 PM
Now that BNSF owns the bridge maybe they'll paint it. Looks like it was a used bridge from some rust belt city.
This was explained some pages back.

catch22
02-28-2018, 09:29 AM
This was explained some pages back.

The thought moderator has spoken!

d-usa
02-28-2018, 11:03 AM
Well, there is a difference between “I think it’s ugly and should be painted” and “there is a scientific and functional reason it won’t be painted”...

OUman
02-28-2018, 11:03 AM
The first few posts (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=24127&page=30) on page 30 and some posts below on the same page discuss the bridge appearance. Apparently it's "weathering" steel so as to make it self-protected. So it won't be painted, as the steel is a mixture of alloys made sepcifically to prevent further corrosion.

Rover
02-28-2018, 11:08 AM
The thought moderator has spoken!

Sorry. Didn’t realize you were being rhetorical when commenting “maybe they will paint it”. Info on that was posted. Thought you might not have seen it. Maybe you are just having a bad day and wanted to lash out.

baralheia
03-01-2018, 12:44 AM
Now that BNSF owns the bridge maybe they'll paint it. Looks like it was a used bridge from some rust belt city.

Extremely unlikely, not just for the reason mentioned here, but also because BNSF (like most railroads) are vastly more concerned with function vs looks. They'll paint something if they need to as part of routine maintenance - like locomotives - but in the vast majority of cases, if paint isn't required to protect the structure, they aren't going to go out of their way and spend money to just make something pretty. The truss bridge over the Red River, seen when riding Amtrak's Heartland Flyer, looks very similar... and there's a few plate girder bridges I can think of that are the same way as well.

Pete
03-01-2018, 07:48 AM
Took this yesterday. You can see them pulling up the old track and ties from the now discontinued section of the RR line and bridge in advance of this weekend's demolition (right click and open in new tab for higher res version):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235022818a.jpg

OKCisOK4me
03-01-2018, 04:15 PM
A lil confused. I've read the interstate is closing this weekend and the following weekend. First weekend for 50th street bridge, second weekend for old railroad bridge removal. Has the latter been moved forward?

Pete
03-01-2018, 04:42 PM
A lil confused. I've read the interstate is closing this weekend and the following weekend. First weekend for 50th street bridge, second weekend for old railroad bridge removal. Has the latter been moved forward?

I believe this coming weekend they will be hanging steel supports for 50th that will span the interstate.

Then the following weekend they will demo the old RR bridge. As you can see from my photo, it looks like they have some work to do on that old bridge before they pull it completely down.

OKCisOK4me
03-01-2018, 07:44 PM
That's what I thought but I just wanted to verify. Thanks Pete.

hipsterdoofus
03-03-2018, 11:37 AM
I keep finding myself wondering what the work is that is just south of the old RR bridge. Is it just future retaining wall?

turnpup
03-03-2018, 03:26 PM
I believe this coming weekend they will be hanging steel supports for 50th that will span the interstate.

Then the following weekend they will demo the old RR bridge. As you can see from my photo, it looks like they have some work to do on that old bridge before they pull it completely down.

Yep. This is what was going on about 8:30 this morning:

14500

14501

rezman
03-03-2018, 04:53 PM
Interesting that the the old alignment offsets to the west a bit as it approached the old plate girders, and the new alignment is straight, making me wonder if the original alignment was straight before Broadway Extension was built, and the plate girder crossing was built along side the the existing line, just like the new truss bridge was done, and is now back on it’s original alignment.

jompster
03-03-2018, 05:34 PM
Interesting that the the old alignment offsets to the west a bit as it approached the old plate girders, and the new alignment is straight, making me wonder if the original alignment was straight before Broadway Extension was built, and the plate girder crossing was built along side the the existing line, just like the new truss bridge was done, and is now back on it’s original alignment.

I thought the exact same thing. That's certainly what it looks like.