View Full Version : I-235 / I-44 Interchange



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jn1780
01-04-2018, 06:46 AM
New railroad bridge will be installed the weekend of January 19. I-235 expected to be closed for two full days. There will be a designated viewing area along with a live webcam to watch the bridge raising.

http://newsok.com/to-move-a-bridge-odot-will-close-i-235/article/5578154

LakeEffect
01-04-2018, 08:10 AM
New railroad bridge will be installed the weekend of January 19. I-235 expected to be closed for two full days. There will be a designated viewing area along with a live webcam to watch the bridge raising.

http://newsok.com/to-move-a-bridge-odot-will-close-i-235/article/5578154

Contrast that to KFOR's piece on the story... ugh. http://kfor.com/2018/01/03/odot-project-expected-to-temporarily-shut-down-part-of-i-235/

warreng88
01-04-2018, 09:04 AM
Contrast that to KFOR's piece on the story... ugh. http://kfor.com/2018/01/03/odot-project-expected-to-temporarily-shut-down-part-of-i-235/

This quote from the article made me laugh...

“To me, I avoid it at all costs because what's it been 20, 30 years now since they started the construction of it?” Morgan said.

Yep, they started the reconstruction of the I-235/I-44 back in 1998 or earlier...

HangryHippo
01-04-2018, 09:34 AM
This quote from the article made me laugh...

“To me, I avoid it at all costs because what's it been 20, 30 years now since they started the construction of it?” Morgan said.

Yep, they started the reconstruction of the I-235/I-44 back in 1998 or earlier...

That made me laugh too. But in all seriousness, the amount of time it takes ODOT to complete projects ought to be illegal! It really is outrageous.

OkieHornet
01-04-2018, 10:56 AM
This quote from the article made me laugh...

“To me, I avoid it at all costs because what's it been 20, 30 years now since they started the construction of it?” Morgan said.

Yep, they started the reconstruction of the I-235/I-44 back in 1998 or earlier...

Those quotes from that random guy sounded like they were straight from an Onion article.

Celebrator
01-04-2018, 11:44 AM
Just out of curiosity...why do the bridges that are to be installed already look...old--rusted, etc.? I had someone from out of town with me as we drove past them during Christmas and they thought those were the old bridges that they had removed. I am no engineer, so I had no answer. Will they be painted/treated or something down the road? Anyone here explain this to me?

Anonymous.
01-04-2018, 11:57 AM
I believe it, along with most modern large structures that are steel, is constructed using a steel that basically protects itself via a layer of rust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel

LakeEffect
01-04-2018, 01:55 PM
I believe it, along with most modern large structures that are steel, is constructed using a steel that basically protects itself via a layer of rust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel

Ditto. It's intended to be that way, except for the stainless steel walkways they've built along the structure, which do look odd on the pre-rusted steel.

LakeEffect
01-04-2018, 01:56 PM
That made me laugh too. But in all seriousness, the amount of time it takes ODOT to complete projects ought to be illegal! It really is outrageous.

I give a nod to the contractors on the I-235/I-44 project, they've been completing the individual projects very well; it's the overall phasing by ODOT that's taking so long (because the State doesn't issue bonds, IIRC).

OKCisOK4me
01-04-2018, 07:36 PM
Link to live cam available now or only when the closing begins?

pw405
01-04-2018, 07:46 PM
Anybody know where I could find statistic on the number of people that have died at this intersection?

rte66man
01-04-2018, 08:24 PM
December 21 northbound on Broadway Extension

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4594/38614145865_8f92635ea5.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/21QcAgB)2018-01-04_21-17-56 (https://flic.kr/p/21QcAgB)

Plutonic Panda
01-04-2018, 09:45 PM
Thank you for the picture! I have meant to get out and take several shots, although I have no drone!

dwellsokc
01-05-2018, 04:14 AM
Just out of curiosity...why do the bridges that are to be installed already look...old--rusted, etc.? I had someone from out of town with me as we drove past them during Christmas and they thought those were the old bridges that they had removed. I am no engineer, so I had no answer. Will they be painted/treated or something down the road? Anyone here explain this to me?

Most likely, the steel is a type that is intended to rust, and won't be painted. The rust actually protects the steel from deterioration.

bombermwc
01-05-2018, 06:31 AM
I'm sure they will paint them with an anti-rust coating. Obviously they can't leave it exposed. think about if you've ever seen another steel bridge that isn't painted. dwells is messing with you.....rust IS deteriorization. Its the oxidation of the iron when it meets oxygen. Doesn't hurt it for short stents, like while under construction, but it's not a long-term solution.

For recent history, look to the Bennett Expo Center at the fairgrounds. The beams weren't coated correctly when they came from the manufacturer, and rust started developing on them....delaying the project by months.

jn1780
01-05-2018, 06:58 AM
I'm sure they will paint them with an anti-rust coating. Obviously they can't leave it exposed. think about if you've ever seen another steel bridge that isn't painted. dwells is messing with you.....rust IS deteriorization. Its the oxidation of the iron when it meets oxygen. Doesn't hurt it for short stents, like while under construction, but it's not a long-term solution.

For recent history, look to the Bennett Expo Center at the fairgrounds. The beams weren't coated correctly when they came from the manufacturer, and rust started developing on them....delaying the project by months.

There is such a thing as weathering steel as someone posted a few posts above. Its steel with a special mixture of alloys that helps form that protective layer. Normal steel of course can't be allowed to rust. I think it would have been painted by now if they were going to give it a coating.

HangryHippo
01-05-2018, 07:06 AM
I give a nod to the contractors on the I-235/I-44 project, they've been completing the individual projects very well; it's the overall phasing by ODOT that's taking so long (because the State doesn't issue bonds, IIRC).

I agree with you cafe. The contractors on this particular project have done a better job. My issue is with the state and how they phase projects due to state law.

LakeEffect
01-05-2018, 07:52 AM
I'm sure they will paint them with an anti-rust coating. Obviously they can't leave it exposed. think about if you've ever seen another steel bridge that isn't painted. dwells is messing with you.....rust IS deteriorization. Its the oxidation of the iron when it meets oxygen. Doesn't hurt it for short stents, like while under construction, but it's not a long-term solution.

For recent history, look to the Bennett Expo Center at the fairgrounds. The beams weren't coated correctly when they came from the manufacturer, and rust started developing on them....delaying the project by months.

It's a real thing - weathering steel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel

http://www.corten.com/frequently-asked-questions.html

OkiePoke
01-05-2018, 08:06 AM
Yes, quite common to get weathering steel as coating is quite expensive.

If it is already rusted, that would indicate it is weathering steel as you aren't going to coat after it is rusted. The steel would have been delivered to site partially coated if they were going to go with a coated design.

rezman
01-05-2018, 11:31 AM
If it was "regular" structural steel. it would require sand blasting to a white metal finish, primed immediately afterwards, and then top coated. The problem there is getting into all the nooks and crannies, and then the maintenance afterwards. With the weathering steel, this process is eliminated. Another benefit is that inspections are easier when possible defects are not hiding under paint.

dwellsokc
01-05-2018, 01:51 PM
I designed the house, "A Box for Living," on the SE corner of NW 7th ST & N Francis Ave... it was the first application of corten steel on a house in SoSA. Go see how nicely the steel is aging. (There are subsequent uses of corten on the north side of the street, but I don't think the steel was sandblasted to prep it for homogeneous rusting.) I'm sure they won't sandblast the bridge either... it's just for aesthetics, not performance.

Celebrator
01-05-2018, 02:56 PM
Fascinating, thank you all.

rezman
01-05-2018, 03:56 PM
I designed the house, "A Box for Living," on the SE corner of NW 7th ST & N Francis Ave... it was the first application of corten steel on a house in SoSA. Go see how nicely the steel is aging. (There are subsequent uses of corten on the north side of the street, but I don't think the steel was sandblasted to prep it for homogeneous rusting.) I'm sure they won't sandblast the bridge either... it's just for aesthetics, not performance.

The whole point of using weathering steel is so it doesn’t have to be blasted and coated, which in the case of the this bridge, and many others like it, It really is for performance and not aesthetics.

Since the benefits are in the makeup of the steel, I’m not sure what blasting the surface would do other than profile the mill finish. It may change the rust sealing characteristics of the steel, but I’m not a metallurgist.

rte66man
01-05-2018, 04:19 PM
Ditto. It's intended to be that way, except for the stainless steel walkways they've built along the structure, which do look odd on the pre-rusted steel.

IIRC, those are temporary and will be removed once the installation is complete.

jn1780
01-17-2018, 09:16 PM
As of right now, It doesn't look like the winds will cooperate this weekend. They need less than 20 mph an hour. Hopefully there isn't an extended period of windy weekends, as the whole project now depends on getting that new bridge operational so they can start building permanent lanes where there the current bridge sits.

catch22
01-18-2018, 08:38 AM
As of right now, It doesn't look like the winds will cooperate this weekend. They need less than 20 mph an hour. Hopefully there isn't an extended period of windy weekends, as the whole project now depends on getting that new bridge operational so they can start building permanent lanes where there the current bridge sits.


It has been delayed to 1/26-1/30

warreng88
01-24-2018, 08:55 AM
ODOT’s bridgework to be finished this weekend

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record January 23, 2018

OKLAHOMA CITY – The placement of 4 million pounds of steel across the Broadway Extension is still on schedule for Jan. 26-29 as long as the weather holds out, Allen Contracting Co. project coordinator Reed Greenhill said.

The bridge is part of the largest project in the history of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, ODOT spokeswoman Terri Angier said. The final placement of two trusses is part of nearly $88 million in widening and reconstruction work on Interstate 235 between Interstate 44 and N. 36th Street. Allen Contracting began work a year ago and is expected to finish in 2019.

The trusses, each weighing 2 million pounds, were built just west of their final destination, Greenhill said. Their placement is novel enough that ODOT has set up a public viewing area with bleachers on the east side of I-235 at N. 50th Street. The department will also provide live online streaming at www.i235live.com. Drone photography will not be allowed.

Greenhill said he is looking forward to moving day, but not necessarily with the same sense of awe as someone outside the industry. Allen Contracting has handled several ODOT projects, including construction of the Interstate 40 crosstown boulevard and the I-35 bridge at Main Street in Norman.

“It will definitely be a milestone for us, too, more like a feather in our cap,” he said. “We have a lot of experience with bridges. But when the job was put out for bids, realistically, there wasn’t a contractor in Oklahoma that had been able to check all of ODOT’s boxes. The size of the bridge threw this into a different category. … So we started combing through our industry contacts to find the right partner for the bridge part of the contract.”

The Oklahoma City company partnered with American Bridge Co. in Pennsylvania. By comparison to some of that company’s other projects, the Broadway Extension bridge is fairly straightforward. As far back as 1977, American Bridge was the general contractor for the New River Gorge bridge near Fayetteville, West Virginia, a 3,030-foot, double-hinged deck arch bridge 900 feet above the water. More recently, the company began work on a railroad bridge in Letchworth State Park in New York. That project is a 483-foot arch with three girder spans totaling 963 feet. It sits 235 feet above the river.

Greenhill said each truss will be hoisted to driverless vehicles – SPMTs, or self-propelled modular transports – which will then inch along the highway to bring the bridge parts into position. Once that stage is complete, the bridge will be ready for use by the BNSF railroad company, he said, although additional track work will delay the switchover for about five weeks.

“There’s little to no room for error. No one can afford an error in a job like this,” he said. That’s why the truss move was delayed a week when winds picked up, Greenhill added. “Every little change is magnified at that scale.”

“There’s been two years of planning that went into this. Our confidence comes from knowing we explored every option and factor to the nth degree,” he said.

Johnb911
01-24-2018, 09:23 AM
stupid question but i assume 235 will be closed all weekend for this?

Anonymous.
01-24-2018, 09:36 AM
Bleachers?! Haha, I don't know why but I find this funny. Not hating on those that are excited about this, props to that hobby!

jn1780
01-24-2018, 09:40 AM
Bleachers?! Haha, I don't know why but I find this funny. Not hating on those that are excited about this, props to that hobby!

I don't think I will go out there, but I will check out the webcam off and on this weekend.

catch22
01-24-2018, 10:02 AM
Bleachers?! Haha, I don't know why but I find this funny. Not hating on those that are excited about this, props to that hobby!

Why the heck would anyone watch golf?

We all have different interests.

Bellaboo
01-24-2018, 10:10 AM
stupid question but i assume 235 will be closed all weekend for this?

Yes. From 7:00 pm Friday until sometime am on Monday.

d-usa
01-24-2018, 01:19 PM
People have always been fascinated by construction. Just think of all the old pictures of people lining up along fences to watch skyscrapers being build.

Laramie
01-24-2018, 01:46 PM
People have always been fascinated by construction. Just think of all the old pictures of people lining up along fences to watch skyscrapers being build.

You nailed it d-usa:

Men? Hey, let's face it. Many of us like standing around watching others work. It's the fascination of progress that intrigues us all.

CloudDeckMedia
01-24-2018, 01:49 PM
Some forecasts are showing high winds for Friday, such as WeatherBug: South winds 10 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph. Have they said anything yet?

chris33
01-24-2018, 09:40 PM
When I drove by on the evening commute, they had raised one of the trusses up probably 20 feet and were attaching temporary supports in the middle. The chains lifting the corners are huge!

Johnb911
01-25-2018, 06:48 AM
Yes. From 7:00 pm Friday until sometime am on Monday.

thank you kindly

turnpup
01-25-2018, 11:25 AM
Bleachers?! Haha, I don't know why but I find this funny. Not hating on those that are excited about this, props to that hobby!

Yeah, I guess it doesn't take too much to get us excited, because we've been thoroughly enjoying the progression of this project. :) When it was announced that they were going to "walk" the bridge spans down the highway into place, I went and scoped out the viewing area. Now, we're not likely to go and sit on the bleachers, but will probably want to at least go over there and take a look.

We have to pass through there several times per day and it's been fun for me and my 11 year old daughter to see all the changes, anticipate lane shifts, talk about the massive scope of the project and all its logistics, etc. It'll maybe be one of those things that she'll look back on when she's an adult and tell *her* kid how she and her mom used to drive through it when it was being built. It's interesting, because my (now deceased) father and I actually watched the progress of Broadway Extension as it was first being built back in the day when I was about the age my daughter is now. Sentiment can be attached to some strange things, can't it?

HangryHippo
01-25-2018, 02:25 PM
Yeah, I guess it doesn't take too much to get us excited, because we've been thoroughly enjoying the progression of this project. :) When it was announced that they were going to "walk" the bridge spans down the highway into place, I went and scoped out the viewing area. Now, we're not likely to go and sit on the bleachers, but will probably want to at least go over there and take a look.

We have to pass through there several times per day and it's been fun for me and my 11 year old daughter to see all the changes, anticipate lane shifts, talk about the massive scope of the project and all its logistics, etc. It'll maybe be one of those things that she'll look back on when she's an adult and tell *her* kid how she and her mom used to drive through it when it was being built. It's interesting, because my (now deceased) father and I actually watched the progress of Broadway Extension as it was first being built back in the day when I was about the age my daughter is now. Sentiment can be attached to some strange things, can't it?
So true. I remember driving certain areas with my grandfathers and discussing the changes they had seen.

SSEiYah
01-25-2018, 08:03 PM
per newsok:
http://newsok.com/those-big-bridges-on-the-side-of-i-235-near-nw-50-are-going-up-soon.-heres-how-to-watch.-or-avoid./article/5580094

"The work is part of a larger interstate widening and interchange project that is not expected to be complete until 2024."

2024? What?

jn1780
01-25-2018, 08:40 PM
per newsok:
http://newsok.com/those-big-bridges-on-the-side-of-i-235-near-nw-50-are-going-up-soon.-heres-how-to-watch.-or-avoid./article/5580094

"The work is part of a larger interstate widening and interchange project that is not expected to be complete until 2024."

2024? What?

Sounds about right. The work on the interchange and flyovers probably won't start until 2020. The last project is the westbound I-44 to northbound I-235 ramp so at least the substantial stuff should be done by 2022. I'm just glad the next few years will be projects that will be actually make a difference instead of one ramp complete every 3 years.

Plutonic Panda
01-25-2018, 10:43 PM
per newsok:
http://newsok.com/those-big-bridges-on-the-side-of-i-235-near-nw-50-are-going-up-soon.-heres-how-to-watch.-or-avoid./article/5580094

"The work is part of a larger interstate widening and interchange project that is not expected to be complete until 2024."

2024? What?
I think the project was also pushed back due to the budget. I believe it had an original completion date of 2021.

baralheia
01-26-2018, 03:24 PM
For more information, here's ODOT's page on the project: https://www.ok.gov/odot/OFF_Broadway_and_I-235.html

Here's a point of information that's absolutely maddening: If the final phase of this project is completed as scheduled in 2024, this project will have taken 13 years to complete. The very first phase - the ramp from southbound Broadway Extension to I-44 West - began in 2011. I think ODOT knows just how bad this looks because the map posted on the above page showing the different phases of construction actually has the dates blocked out.

gopokes88
01-26-2018, 04:53 PM
For more information, here's ODOT's page on the project: https://www.ok.gov/odot/OFF_Broadway_and_I-235.html

Here's a point of information that's absolutely maddening: If the final phase of this project is completed as scheduled in 2024, this project will have taken 13 years to complete. The very first phase - the ramp from southbound Broadway Extension to I-44 West - began in 2011. I think ODOT knows just how bad this looks because the map posted on the above page showing the different phases of construction actually has the dates blocked out.
Good chunk isn’t their fault with their hands tied on the no bonds thing.

Funny part is, this job is significantly more expensive strung out over 13 years, rather than just selling a 15 year bond. The whole time value of money concept that they apparently don’t teach.

5alive
01-26-2018, 10:05 PM
Is it possible to bring before the people a vote to allow bonds to be sold for certain highway projects? If the state constitution needs to be amended, so be it.

bradh
01-26-2018, 10:22 PM
Embarrassing that ODOT hasn't been able to borrow money when it's never been cheaper to do so to finish some of these projects in a timely manner.

Jeepnokc
01-27-2018, 07:25 AM
Here is the live stream of moving and setting the RR bridges https://www.i235live.com/

Pete
01-27-2018, 07:56 AM
Here is the live stream of moving and setting the RR bridges https://www.i235live.com/

Thank you!

Pretty cool watching this, as they are moving the truss into place on a pair of creepers, like how they move a rocket out to launch.

rezman
01-27-2018, 08:13 AM
Pete, too bad they don’t allow drone shots of this. But I understand why they don’t.... this is very cool!.

pw405
01-27-2018, 09:23 AM
Pete, too bad they don’t allow drone shots of this. But I understand why they don’t.... this is very cool!.

I bet ol' Sneaky Pete could get close enough to snag a few!

pw405
01-27-2018, 09:26 AM
I snagged a few shots of the live stream:

https://i.imgur.com/eEi6Bqt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KJbMkLa.jpg

pw405
01-27-2018, 09:32 AM
Is it possible to bring before the people a vote to allow bonds to be sold for certain highway projects? If the state constitution needs to be amended, so be it.

Agree X 1000. I've got a buddy who lives off 235, and he reminded me that at least 3 people have died at this interchange since he has lived there over the last ~10 years. I wonder where we could find statistics on this? It would be helpful when contacting our state legislators. "Allowing financing of road projects is literally a matter of life and death".

rezman
01-27-2018, 10:07 AM
As a side, it was kind of neat watching them move the first span into position this morning, and hearing the the trains coming through here in Edmond, and then seing them come through the live feed a little bit later. ... My wife says I’m easily entertained. But really, I enjoy seeing the precision is operations like this. It’s heavy industrial, but delicate at the same time.

pw405
01-27-2018, 10:40 AM
As a side, it was kind of neat watching them move the first span into position this morning, and hearing the the trains coming through here in Edmond, and then seing them come through the live feed a little bit later. ... My wife says I’m easily entertained. But really, I enjoy seeing the precision is operations like this. It’s heavy industrial, but delicate at the same time.

Agree - if I was on the engineering team, I would be sweating bullets hoping that there were no errors in my measurements! Could you imagine if they get it in to place and then something doesn't line up 100%?? Sheesh. Makes me paranoid just thinking about it.

Pete
01-27-2018, 10:44 AM
Agree - if I was on the engineering team, I would be sweating bullets hoping that there were no errors in my measurements! Could you imagine if they get it in to place and then something doesn't line up 100%?? Sheesh. Makes me paranoid just thinking about it.

I have the same thought every time I watch one of those shows about some huge construction project which almost all feature moments where they have to bring huge parts together and fit them into place.

At least on TV you know everything will be resolved at the end.

catch22
01-27-2018, 11:07 AM
Agree - if I was on the engineering team, I would be sweating bullets hoping that there were no errors in my measurements! Could you imagine if they get it in to place and then something doesn't line up 100%?? Sheesh. Makes me paranoid just thinking about it.

Usually plenty of tolerances on even precise projects such as this. Plenty of ways to correct issues also.

If all of the tolerances on a Boeing 737 are "maxed" out, the airplane can be several inches longer than the one that rolled off the line before it. In fact, each copy is a little different size than the next.

loveOKC
01-27-2018, 11:55 AM
I have the same thought every time I watch one of those shows about some huge construction project which almost all feature moments where they have to bring huge parts together and fit them into place.

At least on TV you know everything will be resolved at the end.l


It would be cool if this project could be highlighted on one of those shows. “How’s its Made” “Building Giants” etc.

turnpup
01-27-2018, 01:35 PM
We arrived at the site about 1:00 this afternoon and the first span was already in place and lifted up onto its final elevation. Pretty amazing feat of engineering.

14410

5alive
01-27-2018, 01:51 PM
I have not driven that route in a while, so can someone tell me where the second span is now in relation to the one now in place...

turnpup
01-27-2018, 01:53 PM
It's about 1/4 mile north of the one in the picture, and sitting on the west side of the highway.