National retailers are back in town, looking for space for new stores, but Price Edwards & Co. says landlords should act fast: When sexier markets like Austin and Las Vegas, and most of California and Florida, get their groove back, Oklahoma City will lose the competitive advantage it now enjoys.

BY RICHARD MIZE

National retail prospects, scarce since the 2008 economic crash, are back in Oklahoma City scouting for new stores. That's the take-away from Price Edward & Co.'s year-end retail property summary, which is brimming with cautious optimism.

Dick's Sporting Goods, Anthropologie, The Container Store, California Pizza Kitchen and LA Fitness are among the national names “that want to be here and are actively looking for sites,” the firm said in the report by Senior Vice President Jim Parrack, retail investment broker Paul Ravencraft and brokers Karleen Krywucki, Brandy Rundel, Susan Brinkley, Ev Ernst, Laci Jackson and Lee Chancellor.

Loosening hold
Walmart's stranglehold on groceries — the giant has cornered almost 60 percent of the market — is loosening. Whole Foods Market, to open on Classen Boulevard, and a new Crest Foods, 10601 S May Ave., started it; Sprouts and Fresh Market are now eying Oklahoma City, the firm said.



Read more: http://newsok.com/new-stores-in-store-for-oklahoma-city-price-edwards-says/article/3526044#ixzz18vforaqN

Walmart's strangle hold weakening is by far the best news in the entire article, which contains lots of very positive tidbits, but none more positive than Walmart's stranglehold weakening. Residents' going elsewhere with their money is an incredibly positive sign.

I wonder if the guys in charge of the giant "upscale" development in Norman along I-35 who continue to say they can't attract new businesses because of the down economy are aware of the above.... When I hear things like that but then read articles like the above, so wildly contradicting each other, I have to wonder if reality is somewhere in between.

I would almost rather nice things not even go there anymore. In reality, that's going to be a horrible development. Academy, Discount Tire, and all the other upscale retailers in there..

Walmart's strangle hold weakening is by far the best news in the entire article, which contains lots of very positive tidbits, but none more positive than Walmart's stranglehold weakening. Residents' going elsewhere with their money is an incredibly positive sign.

Spartan,

I feel I need to respond to the anti Walmart comments to let you know there are some positives to their growth. I deal with WM on the construction end daily, and their current expansion plans include taking over a large amount of existing structures and renovating them into smaller WMs, Neighborhood Markets and the new Marketside concept. In fact I would say last year and the current year we will do more renovation projects for WM than new ground up sites by a fairly large margin. We are hitting the coasts hard, where there is a glut of existing retail structures that have sat vacant for many years in 70-80's era strip malls and a surprising amount in urban cores. Once we complete these projects, the strip center or development is typically revitalized with new locally owned stores and growth in the surrounding area that would not have happened without it. I have worked on numerous projects that from the start looked like a bulldozer and a wrecking ball were the better option, but have turned out to be great examples of adaptive reuse of an existing structure. I will agree that WM has its drawbacks on the business side that have been discussed ad naseum on this site, but they do have some positives that need to be highlighted that may not be well known, specifically to those who believe in preservation and moving business back into urban areas in lieu of the 'burbs. Don't get me wrong, I am all for variety of choices as far as grocery, and have personally have switch to Crest from WM to support a local company. Just wanted to point out not everything thing they do is pure evil.

How many times has WM renovated an existing and underutilized structure in OKC for a store of their own vs. a new build? Off of the top of my head on the southside I remember their build at 240 & Penn. I remember them constructing the new one at 240 & Santa Fe. They built two brand-new Neighborhood Markets at 44th & Western and at 59th & Penn. This was all within the last decade or close to it. Sure Wal-mart isn't pure evil, but they aren't near the company that I want to have the dominant market control over OKC.

How many times has WM renovated an existing and underutilized structure in OKC for a store of their own vs. a new build? Off of the top of my head on the southside I remember their build at 240 & Penn. I remember them constructing the new one at 240 & Santa Fe. They built two brand-new Neighborhood Markets at 44th & Western and at 59th & Penn. This was all within the last decade or close to it. Sure Wal-mart isn't pure evil, but they aren't near the company that I want to have the dominant market control over OKC.

This has been a definite shift in philosophy in the past few years. It definitely was not their focus when the sites you noted were construted.

Spartan,

I feel I need to respond to the anti Walmart comments to let you know there are some positives to their growth. I deal with WM on the construction end daily, and their current expansion plans include taking over a large amount of existing structures and renovating them into smaller WMs, Neighborhood Markets and the new Marketside concept. In fact I would say last year and the current year we will do more renovation projects for WM than new ground up sites by a fairly large margin. We are hitting the coasts hard, where there is a glut of existing retail structures that have sat vacant for many years in 70-80's era strip malls and a surprising amount in urban cores. Once we complete these projects, the strip center or development is typically revitalized with new locally owned stores and growth in the surrounding area that would not have happened without it. I have worked on numerous projects that from the start looked like a bulldozer and a wrecking ball were the better option, but have turned out to be great examples of adaptive reuse of an existing structure. I will agree that WM has its drawbacks on the business side that have been discussed ad naseum on this site, but they do have some positives that need to be highlighted that may not be well known, specifically to those who believe in preservation and moving business back into urban areas in lieu of the 'burbs. Don't get me wrong, I am all for variety of choices as far as grocery, and have personally have switch to Crest from WM to support a local company. Just wanted to point out not everything thing they do is pure evil.

Actually, I hardly dislike Walmart, especially from an urban planning basis. It's not like Crest is any more urban, so I'm not unrealistic. I admire Walmart as an extremely well-ran company, and the problem is just that. OKC has had difficulty attracting other retailers and getting interest from developers just because of the sheer dominance of Walmart in this city. When they own over half of a market with 1.3 million in the metro, that's insane. Nothing against WM, we just need diversity. If it were another company that had dominant control and was preventing competition from coming in, I'd blast that company, too. That's all it is, really.

I do wish they try some of their nicer stores here though, rather than in Texas and everywhere else. Their stores in OKC, for the most part, kind of suck. The one in Edmond is nice, I think that's it.

California Pizza Kitchen would do well in Bricktown or Penn Sq. area, I could see an LA fitness doing well in Quail Springs area, good to see national chains interested in Okc, that's a good sign of more retailers to come!

I think Dick's Sporting Goods would do real well in the Quail area as the closest sporting goods store to that area is Academy in Edmond.

Fantastic news that Sprouts and Container Store are eying OKC. Don't know if anyone has ever been to Sprouts, but IMO it blows Whole Foods out the water. Fantastic selections of meats. I always make a trip when I go see my parents in Plano.

I expressed in an earlier thread that I was worried this area's low income stats have harmed OKC in recruiting retailers, but hopefully I'm wrong. None of those stores listed are particularly cheap.

This has been a definite shift in philosophy in the past few years. It definitely was not their focus when the sites you noted were construted.


I know this. I'm asking how many times has this new approach towards new stores has been done in OKC. I referenced the recent southside construction because it hasn't been executed here yet and I'm not really sure where they would do this. Walmart has brand-new facilities all over the metro.

Fantastic news that Sprouts and Container Store are eying OKC. Don't know if anyone has ever been to Sprouts, but IMO it blows Whole Foods out the water. Fantastic selections of meats. I always make a trip when I go see my parents in Plano.

I expressed in an earlier thread that I was worried this area's low income stats have harmed OKC in recruiting retailers, but hopefully I'm wrong. None of those stores listed are particularly cheap.

Would that be a possible grocer to make a move on, to get them downtown?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKFPz-Zr5gI0hasHtqxRN_2_uHSKnfVAknKBlR3Dhjs3-bnKMGVg

And not on I-240 or 63rd/May...

Wal-Mart is actually making some laudable changes. I still avoid them like the plague, however. That said, if they continue to improve their business practices I might become an occasional shopper.

Was just told by my daughter today that OKC has the "green light" from Anthropologie, which confirms the above. I guess they're looking for the perfect location now. I'm still hoping for a freestanding store built by Aubrey in the Curve area and that a Free People and/or Urban Outfitters comes along for the ride.

I already posted the same thing in another thread where Dick's Sporting Goods came up thinking it was this thread. Dick's was announced as a major tenant for the lifestyle center that had been planned for south of Memorial near Quail Springs. So, they've been wanting to be here for some time. Also the Ballenger's location will be coming open at 63rd and May and that whole area has seen lots of development and interest from national retailers. In fact, as I wrote in the other thread, I was told that Chic-fil-A had one of their biggest store openings in their history. It is a very nice store and maybe the nicest "fast food" place I've ever seen. Hope Dave & Busters does as well down the street.

Would that be a possible grocer to make a move on, to get them downtown?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKFPz-Zr5gI0hasHtqxRN_2_uHSKnfVAknKBlR3Dhjs3-bnKMGVg

And not on I-240 or 63rd/May...

A more likely candidate than Whole Foods but it would still be a stretch for downtown. The Sprouts in Plano was put in an old Kroger but took up only 60 percent of the former store. Its on Legacy Drive and Coit Road; I don't know if you are familiar with that area, but that's an extremely busy intersection. To give you an idea of the demographics, most of the neighborhoods in that area are 250K homes and above.

I can't see it being along 63rd because that's way too close to the new Whole Foods. OTOH they could do well maybe a little south of there. Maybe along 36th/Western area? Something tells me they will probably go to Far North OKC/Edmond though.

How many times has WM renovated an existing and underutilized structure in OKC for a store of their own vs. a new build? Off of the top of my head on the southside I remember their build at 240 & Penn. I remember them constructing the new one at 240 & Santa Fe. They built two brand-new Neighborhood Markets at 44th & Western and at 59th & Penn. This was all within the last decade or close to it. Sure Wal-mart isn't pure evil, but they aren't near the company that I want to have the dominant market control over OKC.

Off the top of my head, Wal-Mart turned one of their old Wal-Marts (after it has relocated to I-40) into a neighborhood market their on NW 23rd & MacArthur.

Was just told by my daughter today that OKC has the "green light" from Anthropologie, which confirms the above. I guess they're looking for the perfect location now. I'm still hoping for a freestanding store built by Aubrey in the Curve area and that a Free People and/or Urban Outfitters comes along for the ride.

Oh great. I will have to get a second job there, as I spend enough money at that store without there being one in the area!!

I don't think downtown would be the logical destination for these grocery stores. Best bet would be for a company like Crest that has local ties to put in an expanded boutique store which could be flexible in it's offering to react to the demographics of downtowners. It Should be about the size of a WM Neighborhood Mkt. Trouble is our local people don't seem to want to take the risk. We need local business leadership at the more grass roots level. Devon can't be everything for OKC.

I've never been to a Sprouts, but it seems very similar to Sun Harvest Farmer's Market. A Sun Harvest store recently opened in Lubbock and it wasn't too shabby. Perhaps OKC could support a Sun Harvest.

I hope the California Pizza Kitchen goes in around the mall or by Nichols Hills... like on western.

The Wal-Mart on the east side in Norman is a pathetic joke. Half the time the produce looks shabby (and is), there are very limited options on organic foods/snacks, and half the time things you really want are either not there at all, or they have run out. It almost seems like they treat the east side of Norman differently on purpose, go to the west side Wal-Mart and you'll find a whole plethora of options, Kashi cereals are in plentiful with many options, the produce is definitely better than the east side's (and actually tastes better also) and there are many more options in terms of snacks than in the other Wal-Mart. You get much better produce in the east side Homeland and we have made it a point to avoid using the east-side WM in the future.

I sincerely hope Norman will do a better job in terms of groceries and take advantage of the retailers looking at the metro market, because Wal-Mart just sucks. At least the east side one does. I haven't seen the great improvement there at all.

The Container Store is one of my favorite places! My son-in-law works in the head office and has stated several times that the OKC market is a "promising" one.
They like to locate their stores where there is some synergy with other stores, so they have plenty of choices. MWC's Town Center would be an ideal place.

I'd agree that it would not make much sense for an upscale grocery like Whole Foods or Sprouts to locate downtown at this point. While many of the folks living downtown (and some nearby in midtown too) would probably shop at such a store, the thing is that there aren't many of them right now. These companies want to locate in an area with good access to an affluent customer base. They are present in much greater numbers in areas like Edmond, Nichols Hills, far south OKC, and Moore/Norman; I would imagine that many of them aren't too keen about trekking all the way downtown to go grocery shopping. And I'm not sure how urban your idea of a grocery store downtown is, but I would think that many in OKC might see something that's downtown and doesn't have a parking lot right in front of it as being too big of a hassle as well.

A better solution would probably be to have a company like Crest, Homeland, or even Walmart build an urban store. These companies don't have the entire OKC market at stake over one or two stores, and they could also appeal to people in less affluent parts of the surrounding area who may not have very good access to grocery stores.

It'd be nice if some of these stores would locate in 50 Penn Place. Could be a good rebirth.

50 Penn is dead. Put a fork in it.

50 Penn is dead. Put a fork in it.

As far as a good retail location, you're correct, Spartan. The building is hardly dead though. It's still in an excellent location for office space with a little appropriate retail thown in.

Right. They're actually replacing the lost 2nd floor retails with more...office. Which is probably what they'll replace the lost 1st floor retail with eventually.

Right. They're actually replacing the lost 2nd floor retails with more...office. Which is probably what they'll replace the lost 1st floor retail with eventually.

And with some retail to service those in the offices, it will be fine.

I've heard almost everyone left there, with possibly the exception of Full Circle, is looking to move. Route 66 is a great store, but I always forget about it because 50 Penn just doesn't enter my consciousness anymore.

I heard yesterday from someone who has a business there that Anthropologie is going into Classen Curve, but the person telling me wasn't sure if there would be new construction, and it is going to be in the Curve area but not one of the current stores, or if they've figured out how to make one of the existing buildings work.

50 Penn is dead. Put a fork in it.

Not hardly. Maybe as a shopping center, but then it never was a very dynamic retail center. When it was built there were hardly any real high end retail locations. Balliets kept the place alive for many years, but that was because Balliets was a low traffic but important destination store which didn't rely on other stores to draw customers. 50 Penn is reverting to what its natural use should have always been...office.

I think that any of these stores will be cool to have, but i wonder if cotsco will be coming here or not.

Dick's Sporting Goods will probably move into OKC soon as they are advertising for bids on March 15 for a new store in Broken Arrow.

http://dodgeprojects.construction.com/Dicks-Sporting-Goods---Broken-Arrow-Plumbing---Fire-Protection---Oklahoma_stcVVproductId129690814VVcatId547378VVvie wprod.htm

Thanks for the info.

Once again Okc plays second string to Tulsa for landing new retail for the state of Oklahoma.

I think Tulsa is just more proven as far as retail markets go at this point.

Thanks for the info.

Once again Okc plays second string to Tulsa for landing new retail for the state of Oklahoma.
Once again, Tulsa has better population DENSITY numbers and probably always will unless OKC deannexes our rural land

Really?

In 2011, retail executives don't have a better reading on Okc than pop density numbers?

5 years ago I would agree, but 2011 with countless of other ways to measure a market yet retail execs refuse to ignore?

There must be other reasons besides pop density, Tulsa is doing something better in new retail recruitment.

Maybe as a shopping center, but then it never was a very dynamic retail center

In the late 70's through the mid-80's 50 Penn had the most impressive array of high-end retail and restaurants ever assembled in one place in OKC.

It was completely full in terms of leasing and also activity. It was simply the place to shop and also hosted tons of events (parties of all sorts, fund-raisers, fashion shows, botanical displays, etc.) It was common for people to go spend a better part of a day out there, shopping and eating.

There hasn't been anything like it since.

I don't think it will ever come back, just wanted to point out that at one time it was absolutely raging.

Here were some of the tenants (I'm sure there were many more I can't remember):

Orbach's (men's, women's and Varsity Shop)
Harold's (plus Old School store)
Cyrk & Co. (women's)
Lynn David (shoes)
Ralph Lauren
Polo Country Store
Pistachio's (restaurant)
Magic Pan (restaurant)
Gramophone (high-end audio)
St. John's (women's)
Volbrecth's (women's)
Bag & Baggage (luggage)
Jordan Jewels
Alexi Jewelers
Park & Co. (men's wear)
Ellis of Edinborough (custom tailor)
Sooner Federal Bank
Interurban Restaurant
Urban Market (restaurant)
Pageboy Maternity
Applefields (housewares and gifts)
Robert Douglass (gowns and formal wear)
Williams-Sonoma (housewares)
Calla (restaurant)
Mui's (home & accessories)
Fitzhugh's (gifts)
Legacy (jewelry)
Bentley Hedges Travel
Shearson Lehman Brothers
The Gift Tree
Peppermint Fudge (kid's clothing)
Jaeger (women's)
Talbot's (women's)
Ann Taylor (women's)

Really?

In 2011, retail executives don't have a better reading on Okc than pop density numbers?

5 years ago I would agree, but 2011 with countless of other ways to measure a market yet retail execs refuse to ignore?

There must be other reasons besides pop density, Tulsa is doing something better in new retail recruitment.

Well if you believe the most recent economic stats Tulsa County households make about $5000 more than their counterparts in Oklahoma County. Thats not to suggest that this area is dirt poor (although truthfully speaking both areas are a bit on the low end when it comes to incomes), but a lot of this area's weath is spread out into Cleveland and Canadian Counties. Which comes back to the issue of density...

As much as I hate to admit this, Tulsa generally beats OKC in every measure when looking at the things retailers need. Give it 10 years and that may change.

Why is it that everyone but retail execs, know that Okc is spread out both in square miles and with it's pockets of higher income areas?

When will retail execs start to truly understand the makeup and layout of Okc?

It doesn't seem that difficult if you have all of the information to look at and you truly know what to look for.

Why is it that everyone but retail execs, know that Okc is spread out both in square miles and with it's pockets of higher income areas?

When will retail execs start to truly understand the makeup and layout of Okc?

It doesn't seem that difficult if you have all of the information to look at and you truly know what to look for.

I'm not so sure its that simple. Let me explain.

I'm pretty close to someone who works for a large retail operation out of Dallas. They often have to do market studies for their store expansions, either for new or existing stores. They are pretty close to my age (early to mid twenties). They are often overloaded with ridiculous deadlines and are grossy underpaid (i.e., not a lot of motivation to "dig deep"). When the higher ups says that they want to look at expanding into market X, they only have time to slap together only the most basic report detailing overall market trends, demographics, statistics, etc. Nothing is super fancy. Oftentimes they pull the info off off Google or Wikipedia. Only then once the higher ups are convinced from this brief report does the process move to a more specific site selection process.

This is just what I've been told and it could vary from company to company. With that in mind, if this is indeed standard practice than I would bet that OKC performs dismally in this process. Our "first glace" demographics are pretty poor and, thanks to all of the sprawl, have been for sometime. Its wishful thinking to think that companies across the country will somehow make an exception for OKC given all of our positive press. Thats why the Chamber and the State Department of Commerce need to get a bit more aggressive to start luring retailers here and convince them that quick facts are only part of the story. There is enough sales tax leakage out of this area that it may be worth their time.

Why is it that everyone but retail execs, know that Okc is spread out both in square miles and with it's pockets of higher income areas?

When will retail execs start to truly understand the makeup and layout of Okc?

It doesn't seem that difficult if you have all of the information to look at and you truly know what to look for.Several reasons in my view.

One is that they deal with historical data much like the appraisal process. If there's no Home Depot or Lowe's in a market then it is more difficult for either one to be the first.

Another is that the larger companies tend to bureaucracy which highly values the virtue of safe decisions.

Also depends a lot on how astute their real estate people are for a specific geographic area.

Probably other reasons.

In the late 70's through the mid-80's 50 Penn had the most impressive array of high-end retail and restaurants ever assembled in one place in OKC.

It was completely full in terms of leasing and also activity. It was simply the place to shop and also hosted tons of events (parties of all sorts, fund-raisers, fashion shows, botanical displays, etc.) It was common for people to go spend a better part of a day out there, shopping and eating.

There hasn't been anything like it since.

I don't think it will ever come back, just wanted to point out that at one time it was absolutely raging.

Here were some of the tenants (I'm sure there were many more I can't remember):

Orbach's (men's, women's and Varsity Shop)
Harold's (plus Old School store)
Cyrk & Co. (women's)
Lynn David (shoes)
Ralph Lauren
Polo Country Store
Pistachio's (restaurant)
Magic Pan (restaurant)
Gramophone (high-end audio)
St. John's (women's)
Volbrecth's (women's)
Bag & Baggage (luggage)
Jordan Jewels
Alexi Jewelers
Park & Co. (men's wear)
Ellis of Edinborough (custom tailor)
Sooner Federal Bank
Interurban Restaurant
Urban Market (restaurant)
Pageboy Maternity
Applefields (housewares and gifts)
Robert Douglass (gowns and formal wear)
Williams-Sonoma (housewares)
Calla (restaurant)
Mui's (home & accessories)
Fitzhugh's (gifts)
Legacy (jewelry)
Bentley Hedges Travel
Shearson Lehman Brothers
The Gift Tree
Peppermint Fudge (kid's clothing)
Jaeger (women's)
Talbot's (women's)
Ann Taylor (women's)
Avery Jewelry

My opinion on why some national retailers pass up OKC in favor of smaller cities like Tulsa is this: we don't have a concentrated area or development that exclusively caters to the more up-scale tenants and therefore there isn't a track record they can draw from.

Reason Utica Square gets places like Restoration Hardware is because there is already a Saks. And the reason they get Anthropologie is that there is already a Restoration Hardware at the same site.

These retailers never want to be the pioneer, especially when times are tough. They would rather put a 20th store in Southern California than open in a new market like OKC. And they also trust and respect the market research of other retailers. I used to lease retail space and many times a chain store would ask, "Is so-and-so there? Our data shows that we will do 75% of their business if we locate next door."

Back when 50 Penn was going great guns (as posted above) OKC got lots of stores before Tulsa did. I think the only way this trend reverses is if NH Plaza and the surrounding areas are greatly redeveloped and in return get a core of high-end tenants that succeed... Then others will fall right in line.

Good post Pete.

Pre-recession I had a project in a pretty good market and used a local real estate group to solicit tenants. The local guys advised me on the lease rates and spent over a year soliciting tenants but never reaching 60% occupancy which was my internal target.

During the recession I switched to a different group from out of state. They advised much higher rates and secured 100% leases.

I've encountered similar "tunnel vision" in a number of disciplines related to legal work, engineering, design, and construction.

And financing -- especially financing.

As mentioned, we don't have a strong concentration of good demographics. We have some good numbers, just spread out. Retailers often look at household earnings within a certain radius. What developers and the chamber have to do is make these retailers aware that they need to look a a driving time radius rather than a mile radius. Oklahoma city residents can get a lot of places in 10 minutes. What might take someone in Dallas to drive 5 miles might be done in half the time in okc. Instead of looking at households in a 5 mile radius they need to look more at a 10-15 mile radius. So yea, it's basically lazy or uninformed real estate execs at these retailers. And lack of quality shopping centers.

The standard report almost all retailers look at is demographics in a 1-, 3- and 5-mile radius.

It's hard to find a spot in OKC that isn't weak in one of those categories.

What retailers fail to realize when looking at OKC relative to Tulsa is that while their average income may be slightly higher, the fact that our metropolitan area is a third again larger means that we've still got more people in their target income and age bracket. Also people here are probably willing to drive farther to shop than in other cities. Also, as adaniel suggests, the people compiling the data may be doing a superficial analysis. They don't care if we get a store or not.

Once again, Tulsa has better population DENSITY numbers and probably always will unless OKC deannexes our rural land

but TULSA isn't getting a Dicks sporting goods .. broken arrow is ...

I'm sure it was still based on density and income, and a daniel is right, I used to work for a large company with rapid expansion, and I was the marketing guy pulling stats. That is pretty much the norm and heir is no emotional ties to an area usually.

It really surprises me that the people pulling data and stats for retail expansion don't have better access to a better type of analysis system setup.

Again I keep going back to everyone here knows the layout of Okc and we are setup differently than most other cities, yet retail execs aren't privy to this info? Anyone can pull up Okc data and stats for retail at the Okc chamber of commerce website.

It's funny that many times Okc begs and begs for a new store to locate here only to hear the same response, "the retail company feels the Okc market isn't good enough". On the other hand there are retail companies that get persuaded or take a risk, to locate a store to Okc, and they become amazed at the fantastic sales numbers all the while their data numbers showed the Okc market as average or below average.

I think we all know that Whole Foods will be one of the companies that will have fantastic sales numbers and we know they had to be persuaded to locate into the Okc market.

Also, as adaniel suggests, the people compiling the data may be doing a superficial analysis. They don't care if we get a store or not.

Actually that's how they stay objective, by not caring. The reality is that every new store is a risk. All they are trying to do is mitigate that risk. They have tried and true formulas that tell them how to do just that. So, when the stats don't support it, you're actually counting on finding someone that is willing to put their job on the line and say "I know the stats don't look good, but I have a "feeling" Oklahoma City would be a good market for us". Then you have to have someone willing to take the time to find supporting data that fits outside of their stats in order to sell it to the check writers that it is something they should so. Then you're asking them to basically open 1 Oklahoma City store that has no supporting data instead of spending that time on opening 5 turn key locations with numbers that have worked dozens of times already.

Now, the good news for the chain lovers is that having a successful store with similar demographics in a location is a risk mitigate. They already know who shops at what stores and they can get or estimate traffic counts. These are actually better numbers than raw demographic and density numbers. They won't just know how many people within x income range make how much. They will know exactly how many shoppers within x income range shop at a specific geographic point and how much they spend. So, if you get one store to take the risk and succeed, it should lead to others.

But, (just because I have to)... we should also keep in mind that local retailers already know the city because they live here, pay taxes here, and invest their money back into the community. No national chain will do that. Not to mention there is less likelihood that you will look like you have a mail order wardrobe if you go local. ; ) And, honestly, if we spent more of our money here, nationals would already be trying to get a piece of it. The reality is that a lot of them already get our money and they don't have to open a new store here.

he reality is that every new store is a risk. All they are trying to do is mitigate that risk. They have tried and true formulas that tell them how to do just that. So, when the stats don't support it, you're actually have to find someone that is willing to put their job on the line and say "I know the stats don't look good, but I have a "feeling" Oklahoma City would be a good market for us". Then you have to have someone willing to take the time to find supporting data that fits outside of their stats in order to sell it to the check writers that it is something they should so.

As someone who marketed to big retailers I can tell you this is exactly how it works. They have people in their real estate offices that usually work by territory. They have specific guidelines that are handed down from on high. More often than not when contacted, they provide a quick response to the effect that OKC isn't in their immediate plans -- another way of saying there are other priorities they want to pursue first.

I still know a lot of the people that market retail properties in OKC and I can assure you they are all contacting these chains trying to sell them on either a specific location or wanting to help them find sites in town. This is how they make their money -- it's all commission based. You can be guaranteed any store/restaurant you've thought about has already been approached multiple times by these brokers. It's a very aggressive business.

But they have their parameters and usually the real estate people follow them blindly. They certainly don't want to take responsibility for something that isn't successful... And if it is, at least they can say, "Hey, I just followed our formula".


To give you an example of how all this can work, in the mid-80's I was marketing a property near Meridian and right on an on-ramp to I-40. Perfect site for any sort of fast food but when I contacted the local Taco Bell real estate person, she refused it flatly because at the time, the corporate stance was that "people don't eat tacos in their car"; meaning they wanted locations near residential areas, rather than freeways. Needless to say, they've radically changed their philosophy but that was the company line at the time and this real estate rep certainly wasn't going to question it.

And of course, I called on tons and tons of national retailers that wouldn't even consider Oklahoma City, although with time some of them opened up to the possibility. I was the very first person to represent Walgreen's in Oklahoma, for example.

So it sounds to me like Okc needs Tulsa to land new retail first and hope that it is successful in the Tulsa metro.

The more new retail that is proven to be successful in the Tulsa area, the more likely that Okc won't seem like such a high risk?

Go Tulsa!!

I would love to see a grocery store in the 63rd and N May area. I would also like to see Costco break into this market. I get tired of Sam's and WalMart. I also think our laws need to be changed so that we can buy eyeglasses at retail outlets like Sam's, Sears, etc.

I would love to see a grocery store in the 63rd and N May area. I would also like to see Costco break into this market. I get tired of Sam's and WalMart. I also think our laws need to be changed so that we can buy eyeglasses at retail outlets like Sam's, Sears, etc. I think that would be a good target area for a grocery store. If I recall, they closed the Consumers IGA on 63 & May a long time ago, then Mayfair Market on 50th & May closed and is now a CVS and then Pratts on 39& Portland closed. You would think a grocer would open up a store in this area.

The Borders location on NW Expwy would be a great spot for another nice grocer.

The Borders location on NW Expwy would be a great spot for another nice grocer.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but Buy For Less is in that immediate area.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but Buy For Less is in that immediate area.

The last news story that was wrote up on Buy For Less mentioned that the NW Expressway & Portland store would recieve a remodel sometime in 2011. I am willing to bet they will probably offer some of the products and services that will be offered by Whole Foods.

I have always liked the deli and bakery in that store. When I worked at my old job I would frequent the deli their because they had a large variety of heat and eat meals.