http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/

The data should be released today, I read that Oklahoma should retain our 5 congressional seats.

Here's the presentation from 11:00 am today. Courtesy of census.gov (http://2010.census.gov/news/press-kits/apportionment/apport.html).

http://2010.census.gov/news/img/apport_chart1_pop.jpg

http://2010.census.gov/news/img/apport_chart2_poppct.jpg

http://2010.census.gov/news/img/apport_chart3_appt.jpg

http://2010.census.gov/news/img/apport_chart4_appttot.jpg

http://2010.census.gov/news/img/apport_chart5_popchg.jpg

We were outgrown by Wyoming? Ouch. Admittedly with a population that small it doesn't take much to move the percentages, but still.

really interesting that with all the positive news about Oklahoma the past few years that the growth is not more substantial. What do you think are the main reasons Oklahoma, although growing, seems unable to parlay that good news and rankings to spur phenominal growth? What are our barriers to really significant dbl digit growth? I believe Oklahoma is still a place of little to no diversity and its uber conservative politics is not attractive to many. Cannot deny that Oklahoma is and has been growing slower than states of similar size ( Ark, Co, NM, SC IA, UT, OR)

What are our barriers to really significant dbl digit growth? I believe Oklahoma is still a place of little to no diversity and its uber conservative politics is not attractive to many. Cannot deny that Oklahoma is and has been growing slower than states of similar size ( Ark, Co, NM, SC IA, UT, OR)

You got it. When our legislature is passing laws that clearly make it known that we don't want Hispanics or Muslims it sends a message to all minority groups that Oklahoma is not an accepting place. With the Republicans in charge of the legislature and the Governorship get ready for it to get way worse. Terrill will be trying to pass a bill that is far more severe than Arizona's very soon. Unfortunately a small group of small minded Republicans run Oklahoma's Republican party... All our positives will not be able to overcome all the negative expoosure they will bring this state.

really interesting that with all the positive news about Oklahoma the past few years that the growth is not more substantial. What do you think are the main reasons Oklahoma, although growing, seems unable to parlay that good news and rankings to spur phenominal growth? What are our barriers to really significant dbl digit growth? I believe Oklahoma is still a place of little to no diversity and its uber conservative politics is not attractive to many. Cannot deny that Oklahoma is and has been growing slower than states of similar size ( Ark, Co, NM, SC IA, UT, OR)

Oklahoma still is not seen very favorably by people on the coasts, and even those in surrounding states like Texas. It is seen, like Arkansas and to a lesser extent Missouri, as a cultural backwater. Thankfully that is changing but it's still prevalent. The same stereotypes are really hurting states like Michigan, which was the only state that lost population over the last decade. That being said Oklahoma is a very cheap place to live, there are plenty of good jobs here especially in the energy industry, and the weather is decent (no long, snowy winters) with plenty of sunshine and a central location.

It will be interesting to see what the conservative leadership has in store for the state over the next few years. All of the progress we've made can easily be undone.

You got it. When our legislature is passing laws that clearly make it known that we don't want Hispanics or Muslims it sends a message to all minority groups that Oklahoma is not an accepting place. With the Republicans in charge of the legislature and the Governorship get ready for it to get way worse. Terrill will be trying to pass a bill that is far more severe than Arizona's very soon. Unfortunately a small group of small minded Republicans run Oklahoma's Republican party... All our positives will not be able to overcome all the negative expoosure they will bring this state.

How has the diversity worked out for California? If we want a one-way ticket to bankruptcy we can roll out the welcome mat for illegals and feel warm and fuzzy.

Had to respond......back to topic....sorry.

really interesting that with all the positive news about Oklahoma the past few years that the growth is not more substantial. What do you think are the main reasons Oklahoma, although growing, seems unable to parlay that good news and rankings to spur phenominal growth? What are our barriers to really significant dbl digit growth? I believe Oklahoma is still a place of little to no diversity and its uber conservative politics is not attractive to many. Cannot deny that Oklahoma is and has been growing slower than states of similar size ( Ark, Co, NM, SC IA, UT, OR)
Utah, too, has it wacky conservative ways, but it has a big draw that Oklahoma totally lacks and that is mountains to ski and hike on. So when Californians move out of their state, mountainous states like Utah look more like home.

Interesting that Oklahoma did not grow as fast in population as it did during the 1990's.

How has the diversity worked out for California? If we want a one-way ticket to bankruptcy we can roll out the welcome mat for illegals and feel warm and fuzzy.

Had to respond......back to topic....sorry.Well, Texas surely has a heck of of lot bigger situation over illegals than Oklahoma, yet is seldom in the news in a negative way over it. I suspect Texas is simply a lot more accepting of them.

Well, Texas surely has a heck of of lot bigger situation over illegals than Oklahoma, yet is seldom in the news in a negative way over it. I suspect Texas is simply a lot more accepting of them.

Texas realizes they are the backbone of their economy and a HUGE reason their growth rate is so high. Not just Mexican immigrants but people from all over Latin America and even Asia flock to Texas. Oklahoma, on the other hand, has a good amount of immigration (both legal and illegal) but for some reason the government is more hostile towards it here. Both Texas and Oklahoma have plenty of xenophobes but they are more vocal in Oklahoma.

How has the diversity worked out for California? If we want a one-way ticket to bankruptcy we can roll out the welcome mat for illegals and feel warm and fuzzy.

Had to respond......back to topic....sorry.

California has lots of problems and they are not caused by illegals. Nice scapegoat though. Immigrants and minorities have always made a nice scapegoat throughout American history. California's problems have to do with a number of things (e.g. the housing bubble...) that have nothing to do with immigrants. The Hispanic population is such a vital part of California's economy and culture that losing them would be the worst thing that could ever happen to their state. The craziest thing about this all is that Oklahoma passes these laws with such low immigration rates and such small minority populations, but I guess it's easy with people like you who scapegoat groups for society's problems. Thanks for chiming in though.

Oklahoma has exploded in the past ten - twelve years. I was gone ten years and had no idea even though I tried to keep up, long distance. We came back because this is home. People in Northern Virginia didn't even consider Oklahoma as a place to move to - not because of a particularly bad image but because it just isn't on their radar. They were always a little surprised and intrigued that I came from there because they didn't know many people who did. A lot of people convince themselves that people stay away because Oklahoma is so conservative but in my experience, that is hogwash. No one cares about that but people with an inferiority complex about Oklahoma. People with a negative opinion of Oklahoma generally aren't against it due to the politics. If they stay away it is much more likely because they think the tornadoes will get them or that we rely on outhouses.

If I didn't really "get" how much progress Oklahoma has made, it is no wonder people with no ties are somewhat oblivious. I predict that will change in the next few years. The good press about Oklahoma will take awhile to make changes. Moving to Oklahoma is not like moving across the street. Most people, unless they already have famly here, need a job before they'll relocate. It'll happen when businesses have jobs to bring in fresh blood.

It will be interesting to see if Oklahoma gets one or two new metros out of the count. Payne County where Stillwater is probably the most likely one. The highest population estimate I've seen for Stillwater is 53,000. The July 2009 census estimate of 46,157 isn't encouraging, though. Payne County is near 80,000. Enid might have a chance at it, too, while making a come back to metro status.

I'll bet much of Oklahoma's growth came at the end of the period being measured. From 2000 to 2005, our growth remained slower. If the growth continues at its current pace, the next census will see a dramatically larger percentage.

I'll bet much of Oklahoma's growth came at the end of the period being measured. From 2000 to 2005, our growth remained slower. If the growth continues at its current pace, the next census will see a dramatically larger percentage.

Tulsa was especially hard hit during that period (the WilTel/telecom bust) and lost population. Only from about 2005 onward did the city start to show positive growth. That can explain 2000-2005.

I'll bet much of Oklahoma's growth came at the end of the period being measured. From 2000 to 2005, our growth remained slower. If the growth continues at its current pace, the next census will see a dramatically larger percentage.

You are right that growth was slower from 2000 to 2005.

For the OKC CSA,

2000-2005 average growth per year: 9,449
2006-2009 average growth per year: 17,874

So if 2006-2009 growth holds for all of 2010-2020, OKC might see an increase of around 180,000 in CSA population over the next decade.

Texas realizes they are the backbone of their economy and a HUGE reason their growth rate is so high. Not just Mexican immigrants but people from all over Latin America and even Asia flock to Texas. Oklahoma, on the other hand, has a good amount of immigration (both legal and illegal) but for some reason the government is more hostile towards it here. Both Texas and Oklahoma have plenty of xenophobes but they are more vocal in Oklahoma.

Oklahoma is trying to tackle ILLEGAL immigration. Not LEGAL immigration. Is there another way we can make this distinction?

Well, Texas surely has a heck of of lot bigger situation over illegals than Oklahoma, yet is seldom in the news in a negative way over it. I suspect Texas is simply a lot more accepting of them.

It is actually a huge problem in Texas because of the drug wars along the borders. A lot of drug trafficking makes it to Houston.

You got it. When our legislature is passing laws that clearly make it known that we don't want Hispanics or Muslims it sends a message to all minority groups that Oklahoma is not an accepting place. With the Republicans in charge of the legislature and the Governorship get ready for it to get way worse. Terrill will be trying to pass a bill that is far more severe than Arizona's very soon. Unfortunately a small group of small minded Republicans run Oklahoma's Republican party... All our positives will not be able to overcome all the negative expoosure they will bring this state.

NOOOOOOO..... Oklahoma didn't pass any laws saying they don't want Hispanics and Muslims. Oklahoma doesn't want illegal immigrants and special interest judges pandering to foreign laws that are imcompatible with U.S. law.

If you ignorantly assume that all Hispanics are illegal in this country, you just put yourself on the same level as some of these goofy lawmakers.

Thank you very much for turning this into a political agenda. I guess there is always a killjoy for every positive piece of news. Now please excuse me while I call my LEGAL Hispanic friend and share with him the drivel you just spilled. Believe it or not, many legal Hispanic immigrants are not happy about illegals either. But okay.

However, I do agree that Randy Terrill needs to think of another way to solve illegal immigration instead of competing with Arizona. He is just out to make a name for himself in the history books. Most village-idiot lawmakers are.

Here is my solution...

1) Lock down the U.S.-Mexico border hard
2) Instead of deporting illegals currently in the U.S., grant them refugee status and get them documented and sworn in.
3) While the borders are locked down, start a dialogue with Mexico's government to help them get Mexico's huge problems under control, and assist Mexico in retooling and redesigning its national economy.

We have to start somewhere, and if everyone wants to get all PC on these issues, the problem is never going to go away.

Now, back to topic.

How has the diversity worked out for California? If we want a one-way ticket to bankruptcy we can roll out the welcome mat for illegals and feel warm and fuzzy.

Had to respond......back to topic....sorry.

FAIL! Diversity /= illegal immigration.

FAIL! Diversity /= illegal immigration.

This.

You libs won't like this but...



This leads to a second point, which is that growth tends to be stronger where taxes are lower. Seven of the nine states that do not levy an income tax grew faster than the national average. The other two, South Dakota and New Hampshire, had the fastest growth in their regions, the Midwest and New England.

Altogether, 35 percent of the nation's total population growth occurred in these nine non-taxing states, which accounted for just 19 percent of total population at the beginning of the decade.



Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2010/12/census-fast-growth-states-no-income-tax#ixzz18rg30TmI

You libs won't like this but...

...and conservatives won't be happy to hear this, but...

http://www.businessinsider.com/sorry-gop-theres-just-one-problem-with-your-huge-census-victory-2010-12

You can debate the merits and demerits of the conservative leadership in Oklahoma until you are blue (or red) in the face. The fact is Oklahoma is well-positioned for growth as evidenced by our growth over the past decade and especially because of our high growth (relative to other states) over the past several years. As North Dakota shows us energy is still a huge growth industry in this country, and Oklahoma is a big part of it now and will be a big part of it in the near future with our oil/natural gas reserves. Another advantage we have is that many of the companies doing exploration in places in ND/MT are based in Oklahoma, so that's more potential jobs here. Oklahoma's mantra for the next 10 years should be creating more high-paying jobs and growing our two metros. Better funding education and infrastructure is a key part of that.

Semisimple - all your comment proved is that even blue citizens flock to lower taxes. That is pretty consistent with what I posted - people of all shades go where taxes are lower.

... A lot of people convince themselves that people stay away because Oklahoma is so conservative but in my experience, that is hogwash. No one cares about that but people with an inferiority complex about Oklahoma. People with a negative opinion of Oklahoma generally aren't against it due to the politics. If they stay away it is much more likely because they think the tornadoes will get them or that we rely on outhouses. ...



I believe you're (at least slightly) wrong on this, Penny. I moved away from here 15 years ago for a few reasons, primarily because of OK politics - I didn't want to live in such a backwards state (still don't, but I don't have much choice in the matter now due to a variety of reasons). And actually, there are people I've talked to that are just gobsmacked when reading about OK politics and would never think of moving here.

Oklahoma has less whites as a percentage than the national average.

Do you guys mean diversity = more black people as a percentage? Because thats the vibe I get.

i did another calculation to find an estimate of the state's population as of this month. i came up with 3,808,511. that is, if that growth rate of 64,301 from july 2009 to april 1 2010 stayed exactly the same(which it has probably fluctuated from that since then). just a rough estimate.

I believe you're (at least slightly) wrong on this, Penny. I moved away from here 15 years ago for a few reasons, primarily because of OK politics - I didn't want to live in such a backwards state (still don't, but I don't have much choice in the matter now due to a variety of reasons). And actually, there are people I've talked to that are just gobsmacked when reading about OK politics and would never think of moving here.
As I have brought up before some people, including you, need to better appreciate that Oklahoma has moved away in leaps and bounds from its gross backwardness since 1999,for some instances, lotteries, casinos, tattoos and liquor stores open on election days have all come about since then.

However, I'll have to admit with the Republicans now in complete control, I fear that visiting outsiders next year are going to open a newspaper or look on TV and wonder what the f--- is going on in this backwater state?

Oklahoma has less whites as a percentage than the national average.

Do you guys mean diversity = more black people as a percentage? Because thats the vibe I get. Well, more of every color, not just blacks.

However, I'll have to admit with the Republicans now in complete control, I fear that visiting outsiders next year are going to open a newspaper or look on TV and wonder what the f--- is going on in this backwater state?

Bunty, why assume that everyone out of state is not conservative, much less people coming to visit? And, is it REALLY a backwater state? I think we are getting our definitions confused. In fact, I am still trying to sort out the logic here...

Muslim countries are cultural backwaters... no rights for women and a judicial system that makes the deep hills of West Virginia look like super-advanced supreme beings. The minute Oklahoma frowns upon such culture... suddenly WE are the backwater. Tell me how that is logical?

We elected a female governor, elected and re-elected a gay representative, have been pushing for better jobs, better education standards through magnet schools and charter schools, and yet we are a backwater just because of some wrinkle people have with partisan politics.

How about this... let's just ban partisan politics. Seems to keep us all fighting, so let's quell the problem and move on to a non-partisan system where people can't use political philosophy for self-satisfaction at the expense of society.

Looks like Terrill may not get to file is Arizona-plus law. He's just been charged with bribery. There goes his credibility.

I believe you're (at least slightly) wrong on this, Penny. I moved away from here 15 years ago for a few reasons, primarily because of OK politics - I didn't want to live in such a backwards state (still don't, but I don't have much choice in the matter now due to a variety of reasons). And actually, there are people I've talked to that are just gobsmacked when reading about OK politics and would never think of moving here.

While I don't agree with a lot of the politics in Oklahoma it's not to the extent where I would just up and leave over it. If I was going to leave Oklahoma it would have to be for a relationship or a really good job, not because I don't agree with the politicians. Plus inner OKC, Norman, and Tulsa have large communities of more liberal people; it's the suburban and rural areas where most of the ultra conservatives live. By your definition would you not want to live in Texas, an equally conservative state, or any of the other southern/central heavily-conservative states?

While I don't agree with a lot of the politics in Oklahoma it's not to the extent where I would just up and leave over it. If I was going to leave Oklahoma it would have to be for a relationship or a really good job, not because I don't agree with the politicians. Plus inner OKC, Norman, and Tulsa have large communities of more liberal people; it's the suburban and rural areas where most of the ultra conservatives live. By your definition would you not want to live in Texas, an equally conservative state, or any of the other southern/central heavily-conservative states?

Exactly

Looks like Terrill may not get to file is Arizona-plus law. He's just been charged with bribery. There goes his credibility.

¡Ay, caramba!

Wow! Nevada 35% growth. I wonder what Nevada will look like in 2020 with the housing bubble now over.

Oklahoma has less whites as a percentage than the national average.

Do you guys mean diversity = more black people as a percentage? Because thats the vibe I get.

YES, that is what I mean, black, indian from India, hispanic, African, European etc. Different cultures make a place interesting and gives people an appreciation for differences something that Oklahoma does not seem to embrace in many areas to include politics

BG918, Disagree! oklahoma as evidenced by its voting record is across the State ultra conservative to a fault and stuck on stupid regarding anything remotely considered "liberal" while continuing be one of the poorest and most government dependent states

That's odd ... I thought this thread was about Oklahoma 2010 Census Results. Silly me. Guess discussion about that went somewhere else.

really interesting that with all the positive news about Oklahoma the past few years that the growth is not more substantial. What do you think are the main reasons Oklahoma, although growing, seems unable to parlay that good news and rankings to spur phenominal growth? What are our barriers to really significant dbl digit growth? I believe Oklahoma is still a place of little to no diversity and its uber conservative politics is not attractive to many. Cannot deny that Oklahoma is and has been growing slower than states of similar size ( Ark, Co, NM, SC IA, UT, OR)

Slow and steady growth is the theme here in OK. No booms, no busts. I tend to like it that way.

Me, too, Mad Monk. If what the experts say is correct, it is precisely that approach (perhaps among other things) that helped minimize the effects of the recent recession in Oklahoma, or at least in Oklahoma City. A freebe boom thrown in right about now would be nice, just the same.

BG918, Disagree! oklahoma as evidenced by its voting record is across the State ultra conservative to a fault and stuck on stupid regarding anything remotely considered "liberal" while continuing be one of the poorest and most government dependent states

Oklahoma ranked 34th in per capital income in 2009. I don't think that constitutes one of the poorest states in the country. Based on the last several general elections, I'd say Oklahoma is a mixed bag when it comes to politics. Did we read SFGate one too many times?

So I guess everyone missed the point that I was trying to make. Oklahoma is more diverse than the national average.

That's odd ... I thought this thread was about Oklahoma 2010 Census Results. Silly me. Guess discussion about that went somewhere else.

It is about the census and why a state/city with several years now of positive national recognition of how great it is STILL lags behind other States in growth and can never seem to enter into the boom State category. There has to be some reason great family city, low cost of living, shortest commute, largest job creation etc etc has not resulted in more people choosing to call Oklahoma home. I for one think it is becaue of the lack of diversity and somewhat accurate hick nature of the state.

Me, too, Mad Monk. If what the experts say is correct, it is precisely that approach (perhaps among other things) that helped minimize the effects of the recent recession in Oklahoma, or at least in Oklahoma City. A freebe boom thrown in right about now would be nice, just the same.

The number of citizens residing in a State had nothing to do with the recession, inflated housing prices, crooked bankers, ill advised loans did (see Penn Square Bank). Oklahoma was not affected because housing prices did not artifically rise due to increased demand.

I believe you're (at least slightly) wrong on this, Penny. I moved away from here 15 years ago for a few reasons, primarily because of OK politics - I didn't want to live in such a backwards state (still don't, but I don't have much choice in the matter now due to a variety of reasons). And actually, there are people I've talked to that are just gobsmacked when reading about OK politics and would never think of moving here.

I can only tell you that my experience with many, many people discussing Oklahoma was that not one of them seemed to know much about it (some had grandparents that once lived here) and it never crossed their mind to move here. Wasn't on their radar and they were full of factual misconceptions about the state, including that we couldn't have two story homes due to tornadoes (which they believed were death traps that killed hundreds, yearly). Some seemed to think the state was a giant Indian reservation and more than a few thought nothing grew here but dirt and oil derricks. Politics has never once been raised as an issue.

I don't know who you run with that has that take on it but my crowd was primarily attorneys and federal workers/contractors in the Mid Atlantic area. It is amazing that educated people were that ignorant but fact is, they didn't care enough to educate themselves because this wasn't something they even thought of. I am just as ignorant of, say, Wisconsin politics as they are of what goes on in Oklahoma.

Now, if I ran with a bunch of young liberals, I suspect the ones haunting the liberal blogs would be getting ear fulls because Oklahoma is so conservative. I am sure this stuff drives them nuts. Most people are in the political center and going to fringe web sites, left or right, wouldn't even occur to them. So it may just be the company we keep - dunno.

I can tell you PQ, one of the reason I don't live in the Northeast is the deep blue color of that region. I don't want to live in an area with high taxes, rampant poverty, and bankrupt governments. Based on migration trends a lot of other people don't want to either. The reason Oklahoma doesn't join the boom state category is because there is no reason people fleeing high taxes in the Northeast to pick Oklahoma as an alternative solution when they can pick 1 of the 9 states with no income tax, which just happend to be the fastest growing states. 35% of the entire growth was in just these 9 no income tax states.

I can tell you PQ, one of the reason I don't live in the Northeast is the deep blue color of that region. I don't want to live in an area with high taxes, rampant poverty, and bankrupt governments. Based on migration trends a lot of other people don't want to either. The reason Oklahoma doesn't join the boom state category is because there is no reason people fleeing high taxes in the Northeast to pick Oklahoma as an alternative solution when they can pick 1 of the 9 states with no income tax, which just happend to be the fastest growing states. 35% of the entire growth was in just these 9 no income tax states.

Since so many Republicans feel so strongly that income taxes are very, very wrong, because such taxes punish productivity, then why don't they seem gung ho and all excited, so far, at the State Capitol in abolishing the state income tax, once and for all, rather than keep slowly plodding along at it at a rate that may take a decade, or longer? To partially make up for no income tax, they could should raise the state sales tax to match that in Texas. Maybe the Republicans don't want to do anything at all to speed up eliminating the state income tax, if it means raising any kind of tax.

Of course, I bet Kerry thinks eliminating the state income tax will also eliminate much of the gross poverty in Oklahoma as in the southeast part of the state where Idabel is.

Bunty, the reason why we can't eliminate income tax altogether is because we'd need to find a new revenue source. After the passage of SQ 640 in 1992, it is next to impossible in Oklahoma to raise taxes, much less create a new tax.

Bye guys in this thread which is stated to be about Oklahoma 2010 Census Results. It ain't.

To get back on track, when does the rest of the census figures come out?

Bunty, the reason why we can't eliminate income tax altogether is because we'd need to find a new revenue source. After the passage of SQ 640 in 1992, it is next to impossible in Oklahoma to raise taxes, much less create a new tax.

Because Oklahoam is a poor State with limited options for replacing the income lost by eliminating the income tax. Other States with greater natural draws routinely tax things like airfare and rental cars and hotels to build Stadiums and roads e.g. Phoenix Seattle, Dallas because it has a large airport that supports a large tourist base and is a year round desireable place/ The other no income tax states have similar desireable qualities where they have people who want to live and or visit there and are willing to pay. Most of thsoe places have high property taxes as well. Hell Oklahoma cannot even take the road tax (tolls) and keep the highways decent or have decent roadside stops for out of state visitors. Drive between Lawton and OKC, sad.

Bye guys in this thread which is stated to be about Oklahoma 2010 Census Results. It ain't.

A thread about Census data that doesn't include discussions about why growth happens in some states and not in others would be about 3 posts long.

Bye guys in this thread which is stated to be about Oklahoma 2010 Census Results. It ain't.

Doug, sad to see you leave a meaningful conversation, I always considered you someone who was interested in OKC and Oklahoma getting better, growing etc. Not sure I undersstand why you cannot connect the dots between population/growth and perception. Sleep well

Oklahoma's population is ahead of projected figures, I'm curious to find out how Edmond, Moore and Broken Arrow are impacted. I bet Edmond is close to 90,000, and Broken Arrow close to 100,000.

To get back on track, when does the rest of the census figures come out?

Bunty, I believe I read that more information will be coming out in February and March.

Oklahoma's population is ahead of projected figures, I'm curious to find out how Edmond, Moore and Broken Arrow are impacted. I bet Edmond is close to 90,000, and Broken Arrow close to 100,000.

Really? According to what projections? Please, cite a source.

Edmond had roughly 81k in 2009. It might be 85k in 2010, so if that's "close to 90,000," so be it.

Really? According to what projections? Please, cite a source.

Edmond had roughly 81k in 2009. It might be 85k in 2010, so if that's "close to 90,000," so be it.

Not really worth being concerned about since the actual figures will be out shortly.

While I don't agree with a lot of the politics in Oklahoma it's not to the extent where I would just up and leave over it. If I was going to leave Oklahoma it would have to be for a relationship or a really good job, not because I don't agree with the politicians. Plus inner OKC, Norman, and Tulsa have large communities of more liberal people; it's the suburban and rural areas where most of the ultra conservatives live. By your definition would you not want to live in Texas, an equally conservative state, or any of the other southern/central heavily-conservative states?

Absolutely not, I would never consider living in any of those places. And the politics was part of the reason for leaving, there were other ones (wanted easy access to world-class museums, bookstores (and other shopping), concerts, clubs, able to buy cold beer > 3.2, and a few others I don't have time to type right now). When we moved away, we went to Milwaukee (mistake which we corrected in 6 months), then Chicago metro area, then Seattle metro area.

So basically you left due to variables that are changing. OKC doesn't have world class museums, but our museum situation is much better than 20 years ago. A better history museum, art museum, science museum, musuem of natural history. The new American Indian museum will be a world class museum upon completion, and that day is drawing near.

We have better clubs, and our concert situation is ten time better than ten years ago. The days of warm liquor store beer are drawing short. The issue now shows up every year in the state legislature. Anytime that happens, the law eventually changes. It happened with the lottery, with tattooing and casino gambling. A change in alcoholic beverage laws is inevitable.

It really sounds to be like you simply wanted to be in a larger metro. Nothing wrong with that. But things in Oklahoma City are definitely changing. No one can argue that point, and that is part of the reason why population growth is picking up the pace. It has done so since 2006.