I think this is a good thing.

How do the rest of you OKC Talkers feel about it?

Good thing for sure...will see some interesting situations for a little while but 20 years from now we will wonder why this dumba** policy was even considered in the first place

I think this is a good thing.

How do the rest of you OKC Talkers feel about it?

It's about time.

It's 8:42 pm and the sky is still way up there.

Good thing for sure...will see some interesting situations for a little while but 20 years from now we will wonder why this dumba** policy was even considered in the first place

I think that is probably correct. But to be fair, DADT was a huge step made at a time where attitudes were different and in the process of changing but they weren't even close to a concensus. I am of the mind that most of us don't think sexual orientation has been hidden, to begin with. The bigger problem will be keeping grievances and law suits that are going to arise from distracting from the mission.

Positive step into the 21st century. I am a veteran as well.

Positive step into the 21st century. I am a veteran as well.

Jersey do you have a few minutes to call this guy and ask if he would like to join us in the 21st century?

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), once a voice of optimism for repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, reportedly called Saturday "a very sad day" before the Senate voted to lift the military ban.

"I hope that when we pass this legislation that we will understand that we are doing great damage," said the four-term incumbent before the vote, according to ABC News. "Today is a very sad day."

It is a great thing! Anyone who wants to serve their country and serve us as Americans should be allowed to do so. This just makes our armed forces even stronger.

Jersey do you have a few minutes to call this guy and ask if he would like to join us in the 21st century?

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), once a voice of optimism for repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, reportedly called Saturday "a very sad day" before the Senate voted to lift the military ban.

"I hope that when we pass this legislation that we will understand that we are doing great damage," said the four-term incumbent before the vote, according to ABC News. "Today is a very sad day."

It's a very sad day that McCain is now letting his defeat in '08 define his legacy. His previous support for repeal reversed only to advance his grudge against The President.

There's a Vanity Fair article from last month that argues his "maverick" reputation is built entirely around grudges. If he took a stance contrary to the GOP majority, it is because of a petty dispute with an individual, not a true ideological belief.

It's an interesting perspective and one which appears more and more true as McCain reveals how far he'll go to carry his grudges.

I think that is probably correct. But to be fair, DADT was a huge step made at a time where attitudes were different and in the process of changing but they weren't even close to a concensus. I am of the mind that most of us don't think sexual orientation has been hidden, to begin with. The bigger problem will be keeping grievances and law suits that are going to arise from distracting from the mission.

PQ is correct. DADT was going to be the end of the Military when Clinton faught hard to win this comprimise.

Like most civil rights issues, this one will be won incrementally. DADT was progress 15 years ago. It was always the plan to move toward it's repeal.

I don't think this will much change the military. Gay people have served forever without disrupting anything. COnformity is a strong motivator espcially in the military. COnfomity will most likely motivate Gay folks to act the same way they always have in the military but now they can't be dishonorably discharged or blackmailed for who they are.

Jersey do you have a few minutes to call this guy and ask if he would like to join us in the 21st century?

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), once a voice of optimism for repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, reportedly called Saturday "a very sad day" before the Senate voted to lift the military ban.

"I hope that when we pass this legislation that we will understand that we are doing great damage," said the four-term incumbent before the vote, according to ABC News. "Today is a very sad day."

This guy has has done an about face on more issues and positions then a revolving door. Curious as to how his benefactor, Cindy, feels about it when talking to her friends.

Thank dog he's not in the white house.

I still believe one major but overlooked opinion are those in actual combat ranks who say its a bad idea to repeal DADT. If anyone should have an elevated viewpoint as to combat issues in close quarters it would be those in combat ranks. The following quote comes from a friend who had made the military is life career. His thoughts about this recent decision,

"So heterosexual rights are going to get stepped on, we are going to be told to suck it up and deal with it. So again we are caving to special interest minority."

And no, I don't expect many 'pro-gay in the miliatry' to agree with him. I'm simply stating his point of view as a military man.

Repeal basically means the guy or gal next to your friend, whether in a foxhole, on patrol or diffusing an ied no longer needs to divert some of his or her attention to avoiding discovery or disclosure.

Gay soldiers, those who dinna tell anyway, were serving beside and above your friend last week, and are serving beside and above your friend today and tomorrow. Other than perhaps losing a sense of ignorance is bliss, I don't really see how the rights of any hetro soldier are stepped on by the repeal of DADT.

And no, I don't expect many 'pro-gay in the miliatry' to agree with him. I'm simply stating his point of view as a military man.

Well, I'm a vet too. All I cared about was would the guy next to me do his job with 100% of his ability. Do you think anybody's worried about what the guy does on liberty when you're under fire? Do you think the gay soldier in combat is thinking about sex with straight soldiers while walking point?

To further qoute my military friend,

"Standards were lowered today by this decison. I also don't know how they are going to deal with it in deployed locations. To maintain discipline it is a violation of general orders to have a women in your room. So what are they going to do with a homosexual. There's antidote that has been floating around ever since the repeal of DADT has been coming up that sums it up pretty well. (For the antidote you need to know that Bill is gay) "Hey Bill; Steve, Aaron, Frank and I are going to the strip club, do you want to come? Bill "Naa you guys go ahead I'm gonna go hang out in the showers, why pay for something I can get for free." Previously you would be able to hold Bill accountable, but now there will be nothing that can be done legally."

I don't see why a 100% straight guy would be distracted or worried about gays in the military. However, I would theorize that if he's, say, 80% straight and 20% gay and highly homophobic toward that 20% part of him that he would resent having a known gay person around, especially, if he feels sexually attracted toward that gay. Perhaps some in the military will need some counseling.

Anyway, I think it was fine that DADT was repealed. After all, there were no scare stories raised from other countries where gays in the military are allowed or any considering reestablishing a ban on gays.

To further qoute my military friend,

"Standards were lowered today by this decison. I also don't know how they are going to deal with it in deployed locations. To maintain discipline it is a violation of general orders to have a women in your room. So what are they going to do with a homosexual. There's antidote that has been floating around ever since the repeal of DADT has been coming up that sums it up pretty well. (For the antidote you need to know that Bill is gay) "Hey Bill; Steve, Aaron, Frank and I are going to the strip club, do you want to come? Bill "Naa you guys go ahead I'm gonna go hang out in the showers, why pay for something I can get for free." Previously you would be able to hold Bill accountable, but now there will be nothing that can be done legally."

Yeah, we can only hope our military people maintain their discipline and respect for others. Crude as your joke sounds, your're right. If you get some jackass (and any line or work has its share) make comments like that there won't be a whole lot that can be done other than simmer or risk a big legal mess that by its nature is distracting and kills morale. I'm NOT gay bashing when I wonder, aloud, if this will affect recruiting for an all volunteer force. That is an honest thought - I just don't know. Hopefully, it won't but time will tell. Again, it is not so much that people are serving with gays. They already know that. The problem wlll come about if gays start flaunting it or rubbing their nose in it. Hopefully, they'll have more class and I predict the vast majority will.

I'm sure some people had similar comments when they desegregated the military.

I'm sure some people had similar comments when they desegregated the military.

Yeah, the realists.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that if the threat of possible death doesn't stop people from enlisting in the military, then possibly having to serve alongside gays won't have much effect, either.

Yeah, the realists.

This would have been realistic IYO about the military before desegregation and now because of desegregation?


"Standards were lowered today by this decison.

<crickets>

Alrighty then. In the future I'll stop giving you the benefit of the doubt when you walk that thin gray line like you frequently do. Thanks for leaving no doubt about how you really feel.

I'm sure some people had similar comments when they desegregated the military.

+1

Don't ask don't tell repealed? Does that mean homosexuals cannot serve at all? They weren't allowed before DADT so if it is repealed don't we go back to how it was before DADT? Or was it replaced?

Don't ask don't tell repealed? Does that mean homosexuals cannot serve at all? They weren't allowed before DADT so if it is repealed don't we go back to how it was before DADT? Or was it replaced?

You know what it means. I bet it's a sad day for the Sally Kern supporters. The rest of the civilized world should be glad.

You know what it means. I bet it's a sad day for the Sally Kern supporters. The rest of the civilized world should be glad.

I now what it means, I just don't know why it gets mis-reported.

I now what it means, I just don't know why it gets mis-reported.

Doesn't everything get misreported? What's your story?

http://npaper-wehaa.com/oklahoma-gazette/2011/01/06/?article=1132398

Wow, he went to the same school I went to. :-O

Who would have ever imagined this a couple of years ago.

http://news.yahoo.com/gay-military-members-honored-first-ever-pentagon-ceremony-223912855--abc-news-politics.html

And an interesting comment.


Jeh Johnson, the Pentagon's top attorney who was one of the officials in charge of conducting the DADT survey, said that many service members, particularly of the younger generation, didn't understand the controversy with homosexuality in the military in the first place.

Johnson said one soldier told him "We have a gay guy, he's big, he's mean and he kills lots of bad guys. We don't care that he's gay."

It will be interesting to see if any Oklahoma running or rerunning for Congress will campaign on restoring ask don't tell.