Why? Growing up in the late 50s and early/mid 60s I remember "Happy Holidays" and "Seasons' Greetings" on cards and store windows and no one got upset. Is religious faith so fragile that people are threatened if someone does not acknowledge the Christian factor at the root of the season?

From Gail Collins' column in today's NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/opinion/11collins.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

We live in a time of so many terrifying, insurmountable problems. It’s comforting to return to arguing about whether the nation’s moral fiber is endangered if Tulsa downplays the religious aspects of a parade full of Santa Clauses that is currently sponsored by a popular downtown pub.
and

But about Tulsa. For years the parade was sponsored by the American Electric Power-Public Service Company of Oklahoma, which is mercifully known as P.S.O. “We always referred to it as the P.S.O. Parade of Lights,” a spokesman for the utility told The Tulsa World. When P.S.O. backed out, a downtown pub named McNellie’s agreed to underwrite the Holiday Parade of Lights. You’d think people would be grateful that the new sponsor didn’t want to call it the Happy Hour Parade of Lights, or Atomic Chicken Wings Special.

Why aren't people upset about Santa Claus being the predominant symbol of Christmas instead of the baby Jesus?

Just like gay marriage will not affect traditional marriages, "Happy Holidays" shouldn't cause you not to have a Merry Christmas.

"Happy Holidays" upsets Christians much more than "Merry Christmas" upsets non-Christians.

You really wanna piss them off, use "Xmas".

"Happy Holidays" upsets Christians much more than "Merry Christmas" upsets non-Christians.
Nice generalization......

I'm Christian and it doesn't bother me at all, who it does bother are the extreme Christian squawkers who look for any excuse to be offended. They are not any different than the anti-religion zealots who look for any reason to be offended, both sides are a bit ridiculous. Just because a group is loud and annoying doesn't mean they represent the whole of that group, it just mean they are attention seekers and tend to be a small segment of the overall group. Most of those type of Christians that I see getting offended by such things tend to be the "front row types" who feel like they have "show their faith" to others instead of living their faith.

I used to always put Happy Holidays on my cards until about five years ago out of respect for my Jewish/agnostic/etc. friends. After all, I celebrate Yule. In the past few years, I've heard some pretty nasty comments made to others about "Merry Christmas" to the point where I don't go out of my way to do that, anymore, unless I am sure they practice another religion. If someone is going to be that ugly over something so petty, I'm not going to bust my butt to be considerate of their feelings. Like I said, to the extent that I know they practice another faith, I will, of course, be respectful and take pleasure in doing it. But someone who is not doing anything but bitching just to bitch, IMO, doesn't deserve much consideration and if they want to toss an "offensive" Merry Christmas card in the trash they are welcome to do so. I would hope that friends and family wouldn't be so nasty over what used to be a happy time of year. Some people think they have to control the thoughts and beliefs of everyone around them and good luck with that.

Does "Happy Holidays" Bother You?

No. Christmas is a compromise of Paganism and mainstream religion. Lots of holiday reasons rolled into one. Whats to be upset about?

It helps if you investigate and learn the history of Christmas:

http://christmasxmas.xanga.com/633456552/item/

The problem is that anymore too many people are just looking for a reason to be "offended", even if they don't really know why they think they should be offended.

The problem is that anymore too many people are just looking for a reason to be "offended", even if they don't really know why they think they should be offended.

Ain't it the truth. The same people who are offended that a Christian would be offended by muslim garb are offended that the christians want to set out a nativity scene. It is so damned arbitrary that it borders on the ridiculous.

No. Christmas is a compromise of Paganism and mainstream religion. Lots of holiday reasons rolled into one. Whats to be upset about?

It helps if you investigate and learn the history of Christmas:

http://christmasxmas.xanga.com/633456552/item/

Yes, its just two or more holidays that happen to fall on the same day. Over the years it has become the day to worship consumerism. Does anyone think this has anything to do with Christianity?

yvco8UThDY8

Nice generalization......

Thanks! I thought so, too.

Yes, its just two or more holidays that happen to fall on the same day. Over the years it has become the day to worship consumerism. Does anyone think this has anything to do with Christianity?

yvco8UThDY8

It runs the gauntlet. Some people see it as a religious holiday and some don't. I'd say consumerism has the upper hand, by far. When my grandparents were kids, they were thrilled to get an apple in a stocking. Trust me. I heard that every Christmas until the day they died.

Yes, its just two or more holidays that happen to fall on the same day. Over the years it has become the day to worship consumerism. Does anyone think this has anything to do with Christianity?

yvco8UThDY8

Actually, it didn't "happen" to fall on the same day. The pagan holiday of Yule (or its equivalent) was hijacked by the Christians in an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" move. Most studies I've read suggest Christ would have been born in the late spring or summer.

Many Christian holidays have pagan roots. You can look it as if the holiday is actually a pagan observance since it came first, or you can look at it as a christian holiday since it took it over. The puritans would have been horrified at how commercial it has become and, frankly, I think it will be the death of widespread Christian observance. It is a little like labor day. It meant something once but now, not so much.

The puritans would have been horrified at how commercial it has become and, frankly, I think it will be the death of widespread Christian observance.

Actually, I believe the Puritans forbade, or at least discouraged, the celebration of Christmas because of the bacchanalia it had become in the England they had abandoned.

I don't mind Happy Holidays...but it bugs me that we're moving in the direction of an a-religious society. Happy Holidays is generic and rather meaningless. Hearing people say Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah or Happy Kwanza, etc is a reminder that people are spiritual and this time of year means a lot more than consumerism. It's about celebrating our diversity and spirituality.

Nobody in my life gets offended by 'Merry Christmas' yet on the other hand I've heard several people whine about any business who uses the term 'Happy Holidays'.

If you ask me this whole 'War on Christmas' malarkey is a media creation. I don't think most people give a rat's ass either way.

Nobody in my life gets offended by 'Merry Christmas' yet on the other hand I've heard several people whine about any business who uses the term 'Happy Holidays'.

If you ask me this whole 'War on Christmas' malarkey is a media creation. I don't think most people give a rat's ass either way.

I agree. The media here in DFW is giving time to this http://www.grinchalert.com/ but most people have other things to worry about.

I agree. The media here in DFW is giving time to this http://www.grinchalert.com/ but most people have other things to worry about.

Those lists, etc. always make me laugh. The decision to omit "Merry Christmas" is often a marketing decision - same often goes for the decision to use "Merry Christmas." This doesn't make them more or less 'Christian,' American or anything else. It just means they are a business and are trying to appeal to the widest audience with their credit cards at hand - which is about as far away from the true Christmas spirit as you can get regardless of your greeting. The same people who point their finger at those companies are most likely piling up debt, buying tons of crap, comparing gifts and all in the name of Christmas. Just more hypocrisy if you ask me.

I agree. The media here in DFW is giving time to this http://www.grinchalert.com/ but most people have other things to worry about.

I saw the pastor of that church on national television the other day. He very cheerfully related a story about a jewish person asking him if he would be offended if he wished him a "Happy Hannukah". The pastor said, "I told him, 'Absolutely not!' and I thanked him for not using the politically correct saying, 'Happy holidays'." So...I went on 'GrinchAlert' and nominated the pastor. I wanted to know why, as a Christian pastor, he would celebrate a greeting which excluded Christ, as opposed to one which included him, for purely political reasons. I also pointed out that by going on national television and talking about this, he had become a symbol for those who place 'politically correct' right-wing reasoning above their religion.

The problem is that anymore too many people are just looking for a reason to be "offended", even if they don't really know why they think they should be offended.

You do realize that this whole "War on Christmas" BS was invented by the right, don't you? If there is a war on any holiday, there is a war on Thanksgiving. We don't even have the decency to take one freakin' extra day to reflect before we start the Christmas rush.

According to Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and the rest of the Foxosphere this is an important issue. The responses to my OP wouldn't seem to reflect that.

According to Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and the rest of the Foxosphere this is an important issue. The responses to my OP wouldn't seem to reflect that.

You left out the interchangeable bobble-head blond on The Fox & Friends. She really gets her head a bobbing when it comes to the war on xmas.

You do realize that this whole "War on Christmas" BS was invented by the right, don't you? If there is a war on any holiday, there is a war on Thanksgiving. We don't even have the decency to take one freakin' extra day to reflect before we start the Christmas rush.

I won't dispute that there is a lot of angst from the right about the war on Christmas. And candidly, until the anti christians started getting ridiculous about it (and yes, I have had several family members sniff at using Merry Christmas) I was in favor of the Happy Holiday usage just to cover the bases. If I am going to get slammed by both sides, I'll go with Merry Christmas since that is the reason we take time off and most people celebrate. This used to be a quarrel about religious beliefs. The Christians felt the holiday was being hijacked for commercial reasons. But it has become about political correctness, so I'm done with it. Merry Christmas, all you heathens! (And Happy Hanukuh to the practicing jews and Blessed Yule to the practicing Pagans).

This "Happy Holidays" debate is brought to you by Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart's new slogan: "We'll say whatever you want to hear. Just buy from us."

I another life, I used to create promos for one of the local tv stations. For us, using "Happy Holidays" was just a way to make the spots last an extra week past Christmas. There really wasn't any more thought that went into it than that. Oh...and before I forget..."Merry Christmas, Penny! I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday."

I another life, I used to create promos for one of the local tv stations. For us, using "Happy Holidays" was just a way to make the spots last an extra week past Christmas. There really wasn't any more thought that went into it than that. Oh...and before I forget..."Merry Christmas, Penny! I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday."

Merry Christmas to you too, Tao. I hope it is one of the best. And for that matter, Happy Holidays for the days after and HAPPY NEW YEAR for 2011! 2010 was good to me but I know a number of weary people hoping next year will be better.

Hey now, don't forget the Saturnalians out there. Happy Saturnalia, everyone! ;-)

Just say Happy Christmas to everyone and see how they respond

I'm gonna go with Merry Holidays, lol

Christ is the reason for the season.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-markdavis_15edi.State.Edition1.2220ee4.html

This is the rightest of the right wing columnists in Dallas. He subs for Limbaugh occasionally. This is the first time I have EVER agreed with him.

Christ is the reason for the season.

Does that mean "yes" or "no" in response to the thread title?

I say Merry Christmas to others and how they say it to me is up to them, I don't take offense either way.

I say Merry Christmas to others and how they say it to me is up to them, I don't take offense either way.

I'm just sorry the whole thing has gone down this route. What used to be a kind, good natured comment has been hijacked by commercialism, used to trash Christians, trivialized by the nonreligious/uneducated Christians; and become a symbol of persecution of Christianity that strikes me as absurd. My feeling is that if Christians are so nervous that "their" religion is going to be tainted by K-Mart saying Happy Holidays, they might want to crack open the Good Book/writings about persecution of the early believers and read about real persecution. Any maybe consider that when you try to combine a religious holiday with a big commercial event, you might as well toss your soul into the shopping cart, too. Sorry to sound judgmental.

That being said, I wouldn't blame them a bit for boycotting any establishment that punished or restricted their employees from wishing people a Merry Christmas. It is one thing to be non Christian. It is another to be anti-Christian and impose that on a believer. Merry Christmas from a believer or simply offered in the spirit of the season - IMO, is a lovely thing to say and I always appreciate it.

For most religious people in this country who are Christian, Christmas is about celebrating the birth of Christ. I respect that. I personally believe we all should respect peaceful religious beliefs even if we don't accept the theology. It's about tolerance and civility. And in my case, profound gratitute for all the things the christians have done to help children and the needy in this country. But Kmart isn't a church. It is not the body of Christ. It is not Pontius Pilate. It is a frickin' store and they would sell pitchforks to Satan if he showed up with a debit card. To fuss at them for not saying Merry Christmas, to me, trivializes the whole notion of Christ's sacrifice.

It's not much of a change from saying Happy Hanukkah to Happy Holidays

I saw an article online today where the feds are forcing a Oklahoma bank to remove all their crosses, Christmas messages and bible references from their property.

I saw an article online today where the feds are forcing a Oklahoma bank to remove all their crosses, Christmas messages and bible references from their property.

On what basis?? Do you remember the site?

The bank is in Perkins. The article is on the KOCO website.

On what basis?? Do you remember the site?

federal banking regs on not discriminating, per the article

link to article: http://www.koco.com/news/26162860/detail.html

federal banking regs on not discriminating, per the article

link to article: http://www.koco.com/news/26162860/detail.html

Thanks, Kevin. Seems to me they could find something a little more important to worry about and spend money on.

Totally agree PennyQuilts. It's amazing a private for profit corporation like the Federal Reserve has the authority to strip a private bank's owner and/or employees of their first amendment rights. Oh yes no doubt a lawyer somewhere will argue how this all legal. Yeah whatever doesn't make it right.

I agree too... it's not Government owned but a private business. Hope they appeal this.

Mom always say Merry Christmas. Much to my surprise, she got the cards that says Happy Holidays. Both are very much the same meaning to her. For me, Happy Holidays is appropriate for the general month as there is several holidays to celebrate. Merry Christmas to one and all!