View Full Version : OKC is Fortunate



dcsooner
12-10-2010, 09:09 AM
I already knew it, but reading this article only reinforces my glee over our ownership, city, fans and players. I hope things work out in N.O. for the best, but, I am thankful for the Thunder and will continue to support my home team.



Forget about Chris Paul -- what does the NBA's purchase of the Hornets mean for New Orleans?
Rocky Widner/NBAE via Getty Images
Things don't look good for Hornets staying in New Orleans

Posted Dec 9 2010 2:26PM

Will there soon be an old saying about New Orleans? That it's a great place to visit but you wouldn't want your basketball team to live there?

Please be warned: The following isn't an indictment of the basketball fans in New Orleans, the city itself or the league. But any city lacking a geyser of corporate dollars and a massive amount of people with disposable income becomes a challenge for a second professional sports team.

It's mighty admirable for David Stern to make an earnest push to keep the team in New Orleans, and for the league owners to provide a safety net for the Hornets, who were run into the ground by George Shinn. Yes, everyone will say and do right by New Orleans, especially in the wake of Katrina. But business is business, and political correctness and sympathy can only go so far. That's why it's only natural to feel a bit queasy about the Big Easy right now, as the city looks for an owner who's willing to assume control of a money-bleeding team.

How much patience does the NBA have in this process? Two years? Three? The league might wind up holding the bag for quite some time if the goal is to sell to an owner committed to keeping the Hornets in town, rather than to one who wants to move them. This doesn't bode well for the future of the Hornets, to say nothing of Chris Paul's future with the Hornets.

But the whims of the star point guard are suddenly secondary right now. The issue is what to do with a franchise that needed to be rescued from Shinn, that has a cash-flow issue, that plays in an arena that's only adequate and nothing more, that doesn't sell out the building and that is struggling to find a way to survive financially, post-Katrina. Was this due to bad ownership, or because of a bad fit in New Orleans, or both?

And that, in turn, morphs into an even larger issue: There aren't any other viable places to relocate to, unless the NBA decides to do business with Las Vegas, the last frontier, and make a deal with that devil.

How did it come to this? The Hornets were once an NBA success story, given birth in 1988 and immediately staked to a claim in the Carolinas, where a population and financial boom was developing. The end result: nightly sellouts in a 23,000-seat arena and Muggsy Bogues becoming a folk hero. But unrest lay underneath the rosy exterior. Shinn became involved in some nasty lawsuits, which didn't go over well in the Bible Belt, and soon found himself persona non grata. He fled to New Orleans, a haven for lost souls, and then Katrina hit. With basketball being Shinn's primary source of income, the financial sucker punch was swift, and to no surprise, the Hornets are bathing in red ink.

The NBA's expansion scorecard is a bit shakier today. Of the four-team wave (Heat, Hornets, Magic and Timberwolves) that joined the league the 1988-89 and 1989-90 seasons, only Orlando can be viewed as a smash hit.

Although the Heat won a championship, Miami isn't a passionate basketball town; attendance, even with a winning team, is hit and miss. Minnesota had some regular-season success during the Kevin Garnett era, but the times before and after have been lean.

The additions of the Grizzlies and Raptors in 1995-96 have been mixed, as Vancouver was an experiment gone wrong and the Grizzlies' relocation to Memphis has been a rocky one.

Bob Johnson, the owner of the Bobcats from their expansion season (2004-05) until last season, sold the Bobcats at a loss.

The Hornets are the exact opposite of the Thunder in Oklahoma City, which interestingly enough was the Hornets' temporary home during the Katrina crisis. It all comes back to Shinn and his refusal to sell for the good of the league and the Hornets, until he had no choice. He had opportunities before his franchise tanked. His best chance was in Charlotte, where there was still strong support for the team; the city would've built a new arena for a new owner, and there never would've been the need for the Bobcats. Instead, the Hornets went to New Orleans, where pro basketball failed before, where there never were any firm plans for an upgraded arena, where corporate dollars were scarce even before Katrina.

You could say Shinn is responsible for two of the league's weaker-performing franchises: his own, plus the Bobcats.

This isn't a great time to sell an NBA franchise. Not when companies are cutting back and the days of individual ownership are all but gone. The Warriors fetched a big price because the Bay Area market is flush with corporations and dot-com millionaires. Meanwhile, the Bobcats and Nets came at a discount, and the Pistons' sale remains in limbo.

Stern doesn't want the Hornets relocated, and viable landing spots are drying up anyway. The country is almost tapped out of vibrant markets with a thirst for pro basketball. Kansas City? St. Louis? It's questionable whether those medium-sized markets can support a third or fourth pro team. Louisville? Columbus? You could argue they're cut in the Oklahoma City mold, but nobody with deep pockets ever tried to lure a team to those places. New Orleans? In a perfect world, the Hornets will be purchased by the anti-Shinn and stay put. Most likely, they'll leave reluctantly, within a few years, with their star point guard beating them to the door.Shaun Powell is a veteran NBA writer and columnist. You can e-mail him here and follow him on twitter.

The views on this page do not necessarily reflect the views of the NBA, its clubs or Turner Broadcasting.

Kerry
12-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Okay, so the NBA has found one team to contract - now they just need 3 more.

Platemaker
12-10-2010, 04:06 PM
Tulsa Hornets

Kerry
12-10-2010, 08:07 PM
Tulsa Hornets

I'll bet they would lose less money in Tulsa than they do in New Orleans. Does Seattle still want a team?

theparkman81
12-10-2010, 08:21 PM
I'll bet they would lose less money in Tulsa than they do in New Orleans. Does Seattle still want a team?

And on top of that, I don't think that they can support their own team the Tulsa Shock, who I still think in a couple of years or so that the Thunder will buy them and move to OKC and play at the Cox Center, Let them move to Seattle, so it will shut up those crybabies in Seattle lol.

Easy180
12-10-2010, 08:40 PM
Not a lot of attractive options out there...best I can come up with is London Hornets

Laramie
12-12-2010, 02:39 PM
Not a lot of attractive options out there...best I can come up with is London Hornets


Louisville will be the most likely destination for the Hornets:

Look for the NBA to move this franchise to Louisville. Louisville was the two-time bridesmaid when the Hornets chose New Orleans and the Grizzlies chose Memphis over Louisville. The Hornets will be playing in the KFC Yum Arena in 2012. NBA likes small markets where they will be the only game in town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC_Yum!_Center

The biggest concern will be(?):

How long will it take the NBA to overshadow a college basketball town? It hasn't happened in Memphis; however, Louiville is ready.

Why not Kansas City? Overextended pro market.

Why not Las Vegas? Recent NBA referee's incident with gambling.

Why not San Diego or Seattle? Both are overextented markets and neither of these cities can build a suitable NBA ready arena.

Why not Norfolk-Virginia Beach? Currently the largest metro-arena without any professional sports. Building a new arena would put them at the top!

adaniel
12-12-2010, 04:22 PM
Louisville will be the most likely destination for the Hornets:

Look for the NBA to move this franchise to Louisville. Louisville was the two-time bridesmaid when the Hornets chose New Orleans and the Grizzlies chose Memphis over Louisville. The Hornets will be playing in the KFC Yum Arena in 2012. NBA likes small markets where they will be the only game in town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC_Yum!_Center

The biggest concern will be(?):

How long will it take the NBA to overshadow a college basketball town? It hasn't happened in Memphis; however, Louiville is ready.

Why not Kansas City? Overextended pro market.

Why not Las Vegas? Recent NBA referee's incident with gambling.

Why not San Diego or Seattle? Both are overextented markets and neither of these cities can build a suitable NBA ready arena.

Why not Norfolk-Virginia Beach? Currently the largest metro-arena without any professional sports. Building a new arena would put them at the top!

Interesting. I never have heard Louisville mentioned as a new home.

KC seems to be the most mentioned destination with them practically begging someone to fill up that hideous glass UFO/arena up there. But I do agree with you that the KC market. Its not quite saturated but pretty close to being so, even when adding in Lawrence, Topeka, St. Joseph, even Omaha. The Chiefs are actually good this year and they're still having trouble filling up Arrowhead. Plus their economy has taken a hit lately with big layoffs at Sprint, Ford, etc. Maybe people too enamored with KU, KSU, NU, etc.?

Even still KC will probably have to do. Vegas is a no-go with the sports betting, San Diego and San Fran are also saturated, but an opening could come if the Chargers bolt for LA, and Norfolk has a very transient population with the huge number of naval bases.

BG918
12-12-2010, 09:09 PM
Louisville would be great for the Hornets.

kevinpate
12-13-2010, 04:40 AM
I suspect that would make some old KY friends very happy.

betts
12-13-2010, 07:26 AM
Seattle is the best long-term option, even with the Key. They've got the population, television market and potential corporate sponsors to make it a go. An owner like Ballmer, were he to buy them to break even at best, ala Aubrey, is the answer there. Question is whether, without a new arena, Stern would eat his words and his pride.

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BG918
12-13-2010, 02:28 PM
Louisville is the HQ for healthcare giant Humana and YUM (KFC/Taco Bell/Pizza Hut) as well as Papa John's. They also have a brand new arena and plenty of basketball-crazy fans, both things Seattle does not.

It's a great city and the NBA would really propel them to the next level.

dcsooner
12-13-2010, 04:09 PM
Louisville would be great for the Hornets.

Louisville is about 1.5 hours southwest of Indy. Kinda close

ljbab728
12-13-2010, 11:10 PM
Louisville is about 1.5 hours southwest of Indy. Kinda close

Not a major issue. Look at Milwaukee and Chicago or Cleveland and Detroit. Even Golden State and Sacramento are similar in distance.

Kerry
12-14-2010, 07:45 AM
Louisville is about 1.5 hours southwest of Indy. Kinda close

And this why Louisville won't happen. The owner of the Pacers is on the relocation committee and he already said he would oppose a team in Louisville.


I also found this.

http://blogs.courier-journal.com/ericcrawford/2010/12/08/the-nba-and-louisville-part-whatever/


1). It won’t happen anytime soon. U of L’s contract with the city on the KFC Yum! Center is, let’s put it clearly, NBA-proof. There’s simply no way, under the current agreement, that any NBA team could play in the downtown arena. U of L has marketed all the suites in the arena for all events and retains the revenue, paying back 12 percent in rent. U of L, by contract, gets all of the branding of the arena, with signs inside and out. Walk through the place and you’ll see it. No U of L signage can be covered up without its permission.

BG918
12-14-2010, 11:00 AM
And this why Louisville won't happen. The owner of the Pacers is on the relocation committee and he already said he would oppose a team in Louisville.


I also found this.

http://blogs.courier-journal.com/ericcrawford/2010/12/08/the-nba-and-louisville-part-whatever/

That's too bad, but they do have a lot stacked against them with U of L and the Pacers nearby, while the market is not much larger than OKC and already very much aligned toward U of L, Kentucky and Indiana hoops. The only large markets I could see getting the Hornets are Seattle (if they have a new arena built) and San Diego (if the Chargers go to LA). I don't think Norfolk and Birmingham, the two other names thrown around, have realistic chances. Omaha is likely too small (smaller than Tulsa).

Kerry
12-14-2010, 02:14 PM
An NBA team in Jacksonville would put the NFL out of business here but would probably be a good fit otherwise. The big problem is Veterans Arena is just a few years old and about 3,000 seat too small (15,000 for basketball). Austin, Birmingham, and Richmond are the largest cities in the US without a pro team. Austin is out because the NBA doesn't need a Texas Division. Richmond is about 100 miles from D.C. but there are probably not a lot of Bulletts fans in Richmond. Charlotte is 253 miles away so that is a non-factor. Birmingham is not close to anyone with a large population base. I'm just not sure how basketball friendly they are.

BG918
12-15-2010, 02:12 PM
An NBA team in Jacksonville would put the NFL out of business here but would probably be a good fit otherwise. The big problem is Veterans Arena is just a few years old and about 3,000 seat too small (15,000 for basketball). Austin, Birmingham, and Richmond are the largest cities in the US without a pro team. Austin is out because the NBA doesn't need a Texas Division. Richmond is about 100 miles from D.C. but there are probably not a lot of Bulletts fans in Richmond. Charlotte is 253 miles away so that is a non-factor. Birmingham is not close to anyone with a large population base. I'm just not sure how basketball friendly they are.

Norfolk/Virginia Beach is the largest metro without a pro team. But they don't have a lot of corporate HQ's there and there's a sizable Navy (i.e. transient) population working against them, not to mention Washington DC and Raleigh/Durham are nearby. Richmond could work, and would draw from the Tidewater.

If the Jaguars go to LA I could see the NBA in Jacksonville. Not with the NFL though.

metro
12-18-2010, 03:47 PM
Not a lot of attractive options out there...best I can come up with is London Hornets

Kansas city hornets

metro
12-18-2010, 03:57 PM
An NBA team in Jacksonville would put the NFL out of business here but would probably be a good fit otherwise. The big problem is Veterans Arena is just a few years old and about 3,000 seat too small (15,000 for basketball). Austin, Birmingham, and Richmond are the largest cities in the US without a pro team. Austin is out because the NBA doesn't need a Texas Division. Richmond is about 100 miles from D.C. but there are probably not a lot of Bulletts fans in Richmond. Charlotte is 253 miles away so that is a non-factor. Birmingham is not close to anyone with a large population base. I'm just not sure how basketball friendly they are.

Washington's team is the Wizards. Birmingham is near Atlanta

Kerry
12-21-2010, 06:55 AM
Washington's team is the Wizards. Birmingham is near Atlanta

You know, I always forget they changed the name. Near is a little subjective - it is 150 miles. Washington DC to Richmond is only 100 miles.

BG918
12-29-2010, 01:53 PM
Kansas city hornets

KC is already stretched too thin. They would have to give up the Chiefs or Royals and that isn't going to happen.

wsucougz
12-29-2010, 08:20 PM
I bet Seattle ends up with this team. Steve Ballmer has been liquidating a boatload of stock lately.

Richard at Remax
12-30-2010, 09:21 AM
San Diego doesn't have an NBA arena. Their biggest one holds 14,500. NBA won't go back to seattle unless a new arena is breaking ground and they would play in KEY Arena temporarily. A viable candiate would be Tampa. The rays are probably going to bail out of St Pete within the next half decade. And in downtown Tampa they have a 20k+ arena in the St. Pete times Forum. Also Montreal, Cincy, Columbus, Pittsburgh, and San Jose wouldnt be too bad either.

BG918
12-30-2010, 03:18 PM
San Diego doesn't have an NBA arena. Their biggest one holds 14,500. NBA won't go back to seattle unless a new arena is breaking ground and they would play in KEY Arena temporarily. A viable candiate would be Tampa. The rays are probably going to bail out of St Pete within the next half decade. And in downtown Tampa they have a 20k+ arena in the St. Pete times Forum. Also Montreal, Cincy, Columbus, Pittsburgh, and San Jose wouldnt be too bad either.

Tampa would be viable only if the Rays relocate, likely to Portland if they don't get the A's. Montreal likely wouldn't support the NBA (hockey town) and Cincy, Columbus, Pittsburgh and San Jose all already have pro teams and are stretched too thin for the population just like Kansas City and St. Louis.

Stan Silliman
12-30-2010, 10:56 PM
SeaVan - split between Seattle and Vancouver with the proviso that whichever city builds a new arena first gets the franchise.