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okclee
11-12-2010, 10:35 AM
http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13482397

Rusty Surette, News 9

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Beer lovers across Oklahoma will tell you our neighbors to the south have stronger, better beer, but News 9 is finally setting the record straight on this issue.

Most believe the six-point beer you can buy in Texas stores easily trumps Oklahoma's lower 3.2 beer, but believe it or not, there's not much of a difference between the two.............................

..........Some lawmakers have been toying with the idea of changing some of our liquor laws and that's making a lot of retailers in Texas nervous. Especially those along the border. They feel the more accessible beer and liquor is here in Oklahoma, and the more we realize there's really no difference between the two, the more money they're likely to lose.

MustangGT
11-12-2010, 10:37 AM
I am all for the change. Let out of state retailers go suck eggs.

BDP
11-12-2010, 10:39 AM
Most believe the six-point beer you can buy in Texas stores easily trumps Oklahoma's lower 3.2 beer, but believe it or not, there's not much of a difference between the two

It's always funny to me how many people still believe Bud Light in Texas is 6.0 beer.

Really all we need is the ability to buy cold beer in liquor stores, imo. At least then you could buy beer or wine cold in Oklahoma. As of now, that's the ONLY thing you can't get at all. Sure, grocery stores would be more convenient for some, but I think we should start with at least being able to get cold beer or wine period.

PennyQuilts
11-12-2010, 12:02 PM
Back in Virginia, the beer sold in liquor stores wasn't refrigerated. At least I never saw any. I did see refrigerated beer in DC liquor stores. Virginia sells wine in grocery stores but I never saw wine refrigerated, either. Just Mike's hard lemonade and beer - that sort of thing.

okclee
11-12-2010, 12:22 PM
If there isn't that much of an alcohol difference, the least we can do is start measuring our beer with the same scale as the other 45 states that measure by volume.

Shouldn't need an act of congress to do this?

Also do we really believe the person giving us this information...
"The difference in the alcohol content is very minor," said the Oklahoma Malt Beverage Association's Brett Robinson. He'll be the first to tell you the difference in alcohol content between the beer sold here and the beer sold in Texas is really insignificant.

After all he does work for the Oklahoma Malt Beverage Association.

Lastly lawmakers need to stop,
toying with the idea of changing some of our liquor laws , and Make it happen. This is another way to increase state revenue instead of giving it to our neighboring states.

I am getting so tired of this topic coming up every few months and nothing is happening because our fat and happy state politicians don't want to upset their good ole boy lobbyist fishin' buddies.

bombermwc
11-12-2010, 02:31 PM
And stop making me NOT able to buy a bottle of wine on Sunday too. It's soooooo stupid. It doesn't happen all the time, but there have been several occasions when I would have liked to have some wine with my nice sunday dinner, or needed it for a recipe. But it's Sunday, so I'm screwed. Doesn't stop me from getting a case at the grocery store, but can't go to a liquor store.

And for that matter, stop forcing only liquor stores to sell wine. Although if the liquor stores were open on Sunday, I wouldn't care.

What I don't want to see is something like Alabama has though. You can buy beer and wine at the grocery store, but any other type of alcohol has to be sold at the state-run liquor stores. Can we say conflict of interest? Seriously, just let anyone that buys the license to sell the stuff, sell it.

Popsy
11-12-2010, 03:48 PM
A question comes to mind. Is the 6 point beer in Oklahoma liquor stores measured by volume or weight? If it is also measured by weight, then it would be almost 50% stronger than the Texas 6 point beer.

Lord Helmet
11-12-2010, 03:49 PM
And stop making me NOT able to buy a bottle of wine on Sunday too. It's soooooo stupid.

You forget, God doesn't like wine...unless it's part of one of his son's magic tricks...then its ok. That's why you can't get it on Sundays.

MustangGT
11-12-2010, 04:08 PM
Wow. Valuable info I did not know before. Thanks LH...Not.

BDP
11-12-2010, 04:36 PM
Here's a good reference:

http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/calories.php

Notice that "a beer that is 4.0% by volume is about 3.2% by weight". So by our standards hardly ANY common beers are 6.0 and most are below 6.0 by volume.

jmarkross
11-12-2010, 05:00 PM
If you are drinking to get drunk...go with Olde English 800...like the professional drunks do...

Platemaker
11-12-2010, 05:06 PM
Actually... This is JUST like the Lingerie Football League.... it's morally unacceptable to to have that 6.0 beer in this state... how sinful!

dismayed
11-12-2010, 07:35 PM
It's so silly. I can go to a bar right now and get 13% Belgian beer if I want it, nice and cold, and I can do that all the way up to 2 a.m. What's the big deal about "high point" beers in grocery stores? Really the answer is nothing. It's just that the law is as it has been a very long time, originating in a completely different era, and Oklahoma is always extremely slow to update any of its laws.

kevinpate
11-13-2010, 05:41 AM
... It's just that the law is as it has been a very long time, originating in a completely different era, and Oklahoma is always extremely slow to update any of its laws.

It's as much, or more, that certain interests are rather vested in keeping matters as they currently stand, and those interests pay to play way better than those who want to see a change in hours and locations for availability or product temperature.

okcpulse
11-13-2010, 09:36 AM
A question comes to mind. Is the 6 point beer in Oklahoma liquor stores measured by volume or weight? If it is also measured by weight, then it would be almost 50% stronger than the Texas 6 point beer.

The beer sold in liquor stores in Oklahoma is the same beer sold in Texas, sans the big three domestic brands. The standard alcohol content for most pilsners (such as Molson Canadian, Labatt Blue, Budweiser and Miller) are 5.0% by volume. Ales are typically 5.5% by volume. Most Mexican beers are between 4% and 5% by volume.

To answer your question, no. Beer sold in OKlahoma's liquor stores are measured by volume, which is the industry standard.

okcpulse
11-13-2010, 09:52 AM
Actually... This is JUST like the Lingerie Football League.... it's morally unacceptable to to have that 6.0 beer in this state... how sinful!

Ugh, how many times must I explain this? There IS 6.0 beer in Oklahoma, sold in the liquor store and at the bar. And it isn't even 6.0% by volume. That is the typical alcohol content of malt liquor and barley wine.

Oklahoma DOES allow Budweiser, Coors Millers to sell regular beer (5.0% by volume) in Oklahoma liquor stores, but those three companies have a moratorium on Oklahoma right now because Oklahoma law does not allow franchising between beverage manufacturers and wholesale distributors. Coors Brewing Co., Miller and InBev(AB) require a franchise agreement among distributors that require distributors to follow company policy on marketing and QC.

So, Oklahoma will need to change the law to allow franchising between distributors and beverage makers in order for the big three brewers to end the moratorium. Now, the reason the big three sell 3.2 beer in Oklahoma is because 3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws. This is because grocery stores (who were already selling 3.2 beer before liquor was legalized in 1959) fought to be exempt from having to follow the regulations that liquor stores would be forced to follow.

The beer brands that you find today in Oklahoma's liquor stores (Molson, Corona, Labatt, Samual Adams, Tecate, Shiner, etc) don't care about franchising, so they sell in Oklahoma.

Has nothing to do with morality, or the old state myth that it was to keep indians from getting drunk, or any other goofy conclusion people come to.

BG918
11-14-2010, 11:27 AM
I don't have as much of problem with the distribution laws as I do not allowing microbreweries to sell their 'high-point' beer on the premises. This effectively outlaws brewpubs, except those that brew 3.2 like Coach's or Bricktown Brewery. There would be a much larger craft beer industry here if that law was repealed. I'd like to see more places like COOP Ale Works in OKC or Marshall's in Tulsa (both of which produce great beer) be able to offer brewery tours/tasting as well as sell their beers on location and not just in liquor stores or the handful of bars/restaurants that buy their product.

Bunty
11-14-2010, 12:02 PM
And stop making me NOT able to buy a bottle of wine on Sunday too. It's soooooo stupid. It doesn't happen all the time, but there have been several occasions when I would have liked to have some wine with my nice sunday dinner, or needed it for a recipe. But it's Sunday, so I'm screwed. Doesn't stop me from getting a case at the grocery store, but can't go to a liquor store.

And for that matter, stop forcing only liquor stores to sell wine. Although if the liquor stores were open on Sunday, I wouldn't care.

What I don't want to see is something like Alabama has though. You can buy beer and wine at the grocery store, but any other type of alcohol has to be sold at the state-run liquor stores. Can we say conflict of interest? Seriously, just let anyone that buys the license to sell the stuff, sell it.

Well, as with the fact that car dealers love the law that doesn't allow them to open on Sundays, no doubt, the same goes with Oklahoma liquor store operators. Since they never have to worry about their competitors opening on Sundays also helps living with such laws easy.

USAF
11-14-2010, 12:06 PM
Lots of good info here. "Minor difference?" Just about anyone can taste a drastic difference between regular and low point. I will be visiting texas shortly and will be spending hundreds of my Oklahoma earned money on Texas beer and Texas' economy.

okcpulse
11-14-2010, 01:20 PM
Why do that when you get better quality beers in Oklahoma liquor stores? Bud, Coors and Miller are not great beers, IMO. However, many people do prefer those three and lawmakers need to give Oklahomans one less excuse to go to Texas.

Laramie
09-17-2013, 06:49 PM
Reviving this old thread because of recent news reports...

Did anyone hear the news reports about the possibility of some of the more popular beer labels like Bud being sold in Oklahoma liquor stores? Remember, many of the more popular beer manufacturers refuse to stock their brew on Oklahoma liquor shelves because of no refrigeration law.

I believe it was local FOX Channel 25 who reported this on the morning news (September 17, 2013).


Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion:

The reason: measurements.

In Texas, the alcoholic content of beer is measured by volume. In Oklahoma, the alcoholic content of beer is measured by weight. In fact, Oklahoma is one of only five states left in the nation that measure the alcohol content in beer by weight.

"So, let's say a domestic premium light beer from Texas is around 4 percent," said Robinson. "When you convert that to alcohol by weight, which is how Oklahoma's 3.2 percent beer is weighed, it comes out to be about 3.3 or 3.4 percent. So, it's really insignificant."

Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13482397)

Popular Beers: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWS9/PDF/1011/AlcoholContentByBrand2000to2009.pdf

Teo9969
09-17-2013, 07:12 PM
http://www.okctalk.com/current-events-open-topic/35036-end-3-2-beer-oklahoma.html

okcpulse
09-17-2013, 07:49 PM
Reviving this old thread because of recent news reports...

Did anyone hear the news reports about the possibility of some of the more popular beer labels like Bud being sold in Oklahoma liquior stores? Remember, many of the more popular beer manufacturers refuse to stock their brew on Oklahoma liquior shelves because of no refrigeration law.

I believe it was local FOX Channel 25 who reported this on the morning news (September 17, 2013).


Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion:

The reason: measurements.

In Texas, the alcoholic content of beer is measured by volume. In Oklahoma, the alcoholic content of beer is measured by weight. In fact, Oklahoma is one of only five states left in the nation that measure the alcohol content in beer by weight.

"So, let's say a domestic premium light beer from Texas is around 4 percent," said Robinson. "When you convert that to alcohol by weight, which is how Oklahoma's 3.2 percent beer is weighed, it comes out to be about 3.3 or 3.4 percent. So, it's really insignificant."

Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13482397)

Popular Beers: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWS9/PDF/1011/AlcoholContentByBrand2000to2009.pdf

Actually, they refused to stock because they couldn't franchise with distributors within the state. Budweiser, Coors and Miller sold beer in Oklahoa liquor stores until 1976. This news will signal an end to a 35 year-long embargo.

Jersey Boss
09-18-2013, 09:47 AM
This article(Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13482397)) has a real bogus claim in stating" In Oklahoma liquor stores, the alcoholic content of beer must be higher than 3.2 and no domestic beers are allowed. " I can go into my local liquor store and purchase numerous domestics, SAM ADAMS, Pabst(not that I buy this), and countless others.

bchris02
09-18-2013, 09:56 AM
This article(Stronger Beer In Texas Is A Drinking Delusion - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13482397)) has a real bogus claim in stating" In Oklahoma liquor stores, the alcoholic content of beer must be higher than 3.2 and no domestic beers are allowed. " I can go into my local liquor store and purchase numerous domestics, SAM ADAMS, Pabst(not that I buy this), and countless others.

You mean you don't drink Pabst? You are not on the cutting edge of hip if you don't think PBR :D

catch22
09-18-2013, 09:57 AM
You mean you don't drink Pabst? You are not on the cutting edge of hip if you don't think PBR :D

PBR = hipster bait.

Midtowner
09-18-2013, 10:06 AM
You mean you don't drink Pabst? You are not on the cutting edge of hip if you don't think PBR :D

Now why do y'all have to hate on PBR? The stuff is as delicious as the next lager and some places have some pretty great happy hour specials for it.

I think it's $2/can at VZD's.

kevinpate
09-18-2013, 10:35 AM
PBR - the other whitetrash drink

jerrywall
09-18-2013, 11:10 AM
Beer snobs. I love me my craft beers. I'd put my tasted beer list up against about anyone on here. I've completed 2 tours at Old Chicago and I've got a saucer on the ceiling at Flying Saucer in Addison. Heck, I plan vacations around visiting breweries and brew pubs. All that being said, PBR is my default beer of choice. I keep a keg of it in my bar on tap at home. It's easy to drink, goes well with a shot of whiskey, and is affordable, yet tastes better than similarly priced beers.

Now lost lake, ice house, and boxer beer? Uhg.

Midtowner
09-18-2013, 11:46 AM
Now lost lake, ice house, and boxer beer? Uhg.

Minnesota's Be[a]st deserves a mention.

RadicalModerate
09-18-2013, 01:03 PM
Old Milwaukee was way tastier and about the same price as Pabst Blue Ribbon.
I think that OM ("the beer for when you're jonesin' for a little taste o' karma or whatever"), pulled out of Oklahoma on account of our antiquated, Liquor Distribution Cartel fortified adult beverage purveyance laws.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
All that should have to happen is for Wisconsin or Missouri to fax a copy of their regulations regarding these matters to Oklahoma and we--that is the clowns we elect to seats in the statehouse/crumbling capitol building--make it Local Law.

Jersey Boss
09-18-2013, 01:10 PM
You mean you don't drink Pabst? You are not on the cutting edge of hip if you don't think PBR :D

At my age I'm more concerned about "waist" than hip. That being said I just can't buy a beer that does not maintain their own brewing facilities. Pabst sold out to Stroh's long ago and in their present form are nothing but a "name" of old brewed at a contract brewery.

Midtowner
09-18-2013, 02:27 PM
Let's not labor under the illusion that it's a craft beer. It's just a lager and I'm sure it's brewed to specs which assure the taste and quality is as good as before.

bluedogok
09-18-2013, 08:02 PM
Yep, you can find cheap PBR at places all over Denver, I still won't drink any of it.

Plutonic Panda
10-09-2013, 08:43 PM
-Perhaps Pete or MMM ought to take the 2010 out of this thread and just name it to Official Oklahoma Liquor Law Thread-

"Garfield County voters approve Sunday alcohol sales
Garfield County voters approved a ballot measure Tuesday which will allow bars and restaurants to sell alcohol on Sundays and certain holidays.
By Bryan Dean Published: October 9, 2013

ENID — Garfield County voters approved a measure Tuesday that will allow restaurants and bars to sell alcoholic drinks on Sundays.

The measure passed during a special election with 4,089 people, or 68.7 percent, in favor of the proposition and 1,863, or 31.3 percent, against.

Backers of the proposition considered it an economic development issue, which will encourage more restaurants to locate in the Enid area''

Read more here: Garfield County voters approve Sunday alcohol sales | News OK (http://newsok.com/garfield-county-voters-approve-sunday-alcohol-sales/article/3891480)

bille
10-10-2013, 10:42 AM
Beer snobs. I love me my craft beers. I'd put my tasted beer list up against about anyone on here. I've completed 2 tours at Old Chicago and I've got a saucer on the ceiling at Flying Saucer in Addison. Heck, I plan vacations around visiting breweries and brew pubs. All that being said, PBR is my default beer of choice. I keep a keg of it in my bar on tap at home. It's easy to drink, goes well with a shot of whiskey, and is affordable, yet tastes better than similarly priced beers.

Now lost lake, ice house, and boxer beer? Uhg.

I agree I love, Love, LOVE craft beer. My love for it pushes me to homebrew even more as either I can't access certain craft beers and/or I can't afford to keep a craft beer keg of double IPA on tap at any given time like I can with homebrew. Having 6-8 kegs of craft beer on tap in my garage would litterally break the bank, with homebrew however it's much more realistic to do. Not that I don't buy craft beer, I sure buy my share of it too, just throwing that out there. That said, I still by Pabst quite a bit, it's my go-to summer beer. Even being a brewer I can't make an equivalent to it in any volume on the regular for the price I can just go and buy it (the same can be said for almost all mass-produced light lager).


-Perhaps Pete or MMM ought to take the 2010 out of this thread and just name it to Official Oklahoma Liquor Law Thread-

"Garfield County voters approve Sunday alcohol sales
Garfield County voters approved a ballot measure Tuesday which will allow bars and restaurants to sell alcohol on Sundays and certain holidays.
By Bryan Dean Published: October 9, 2013

ENID — Garfield County voters approved a measure Tuesday that will allow restaurants and bars to sell alcoholic drinks on Sundays.

The measure passed during a special election with 4,089 people, or 68.7 percent, in favor of the proposition and 1,863, or 31.3 percent, against.

Backers of the proposition considered it an economic development issue, which will encourage more restaurants to locate in the Enid area''

Read more here: Garfield County voters approve Sunday alcohol sales | News OK (http://newsok.com/garfield-county-voters-approve-sunday-alcohol-sales/article/3891480)

I keep seeing this story being posted around and I don't understand the big deal? Garfield county is finally catching up with the majority?

jerrywall
10-10-2013, 10:53 AM
I keep seeing this story being posted around and I don't understand the big deal? Garfield county is finally catching up with the majority?

I think it's relevant because if the populations of OKC metro and the tulsa metro alone could control our liquor laws, they'd be different. So when the more rural areas start catching up, it's a good thing. A decade ago, have the counties in Oklahoma were still dry counties (for liquor by the drink).

Dubya61
10-10-2013, 12:53 PM
I keep seeing this story being posted around and I don't understand the big deal? Garfield county is finally catching up with the majority?

I think it's relevant because if the populations of OKC metro and the tulsa metro alone could control our liquor laws, they'd be different. So when the more rural areas start catching up, it's a good thing. A decade ago, have the counties in Oklahoma were still dry counties (for liquor by the drink).
I agree. The relevance is in the fact that Oklahoma Liquor Laws -- while something of a gordian knot of a labyrinth (a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma) -- may need review and updating, but getting approval from the voting public may not be such an uphill battle as some think.

ctchandler
10-10-2013, 01:05 PM
Jerrywall,
Funny thing about PBR, when I was in the Philippines, the enlisted men's club was selling PBR for a nickel a can because they couldn't get rid of it. And I/we still didn't buy it. San Miguel was too good. As for beer lists, all I can do is estimate, but I think I have had over 200 different beers in England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and Cornwall. When we stopped at a pub, I always asked for a local brew (cask ale only), or one nearby and I didn't drink the same beer twice unless there was no choice. Ireland wasn't that good, too much Guinness. And I have had a few from brew pubs here in the states. Probably not as many as you have had.
C. T.
Beer snobs. I love me my craft beers. I'd put my tasted beer list up against about anyone on here. I've completed 2 tours at Old Chicago and I've got a saucer on the ceiling at Flying Saucer in Addison. Heck, I plan vacations around visiting breweries and brew pubs. All that being said, PBR is my default beer of choice. I keep a keg of it in my bar on tap at home. It's easy to drink, goes well with a shot of whiskey, and is affordable, yet tastes better than similarly priced beers.

Now lost lake, ice house, and boxer beer? Uhg.

bluedogok
10-10-2013, 08:55 PM
The Great American Beer Festival started today here in Denver. They are expanding next year, hopefully I will be able to get a ticket, they sold out all 49,000 in 20 minutes this year. It is almost taking on a life of its own like SXSW has in Austin. There are so many more "non-sanctioned" events going on around town, for the SXSW music portion it dwarfs the main event anymore.

Denver Post - Great American Beer Festival bigger than ever, but is it better? (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24278228/great-american-beer-festival-bigger-than-ever-but)

bille
10-11-2013, 07:36 AM
I agree. The relevance is in the fact that Oklahoma Liquor Laws -- while something of a gordian knot of a labyrinth (a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma) -- may need review and updating, but getting approval from the voting public may not be such an uphill battle as some think.

Honestly I don't think the voting public is the issue with our intrusive, archaic, and assinine alcohol laws. I'm sure Jerry has a good idea of what the real hurdles are, yeah?

Dubya61
10-11-2013, 08:51 AM
Honestly I don't think the voting public is the issue with our intrusive, archaic, and assinine alcohol laws. I'm sure Jerry has a good idea of what the real hurdles are, yeah?

RM would tell you (and it rings a bell with something from my youth) that there's a Liquor Cartel of some sorts here that ends of wagging the dog something fierce!

Bunty
10-15-2013, 09:11 AM
I keep seeing this story being posted around and I don't understand the big deal? Garfield county is finally catching up with the majority?

Doing that was just a baby step while amazing it took so long. Probably it was simply due to plain apathy on the part of the public as to the main reason why. Apathy can sometimes rule for a very long time. It's even more amazing there are still some counties in Oklahoma where liquor by the drink is banned.

Democrat policies or lack of them from past rule is why state alcohol laws never reformed far enough to better suit the fact it's now the 21st century. Now that Republicans rule at the State Capitol, I sure wish they would have the good sense to correct the mistakes and negligence of past Democrat rule.

Bunty
10-15-2013, 09:20 AM
Honestly I don't think the voting public is the issue with our intrusive, archaic, and assinine alcohol laws. I'm sure Jerry has a good idea of what the real hurdles are, yeah?

That's probably true. When was the last time a state wide vote failed to approve ending some prohibition against alcohol? My guess is that it was before 1984. Maybe the fear such proposals would be approved is why we don't get more opportunities to vote to end more prohibitive alcohol laws.

jerrywall
10-15-2013, 03:30 PM
It's inertia, and it's slow to change. There also isn't lots of money to be found to lobby/advertise to change the laws, but there are always folks willing to put money towards keeping them the same.

The exceptions have been laws related to the winery and brewery industries, since those make money. But who's going to invest money in advertising for a law to let liquor stores be open an hour later (for example)?

From the legislative side, there's no political consequences in not changing the laws, but changing them brings up the potential for groups like MADD to run ads blaming you for dead bodies in the streets or any rise in drunk driving.

bille
10-17-2013, 09:20 AM
But some of the laws inhibiting liquor stores such as cold storage or selling of non-alcoholic products would directly benefit all breweries, including the local ones.

I guess I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that there's more money in not allowing liquor stores to do/sell the above and keep it confined to C&P/grocers and <4% products. On the flip side I can very much see the wine industry pushing to get into those accounts and oddly enough, I think it will happen before we see cold storage, of course that's just a feeling, I know nothing of how this all works. That said, the cloud of moral doubt surrounding alcohol law changes turns to thick impenetrable fog when it focuses on beer or spirits. If only Jesus had turned water into beer or whiskey...

jerrywall
10-17-2013, 09:40 AM
It may generate money, but those who would benefit the most don't have the cash resources to lobby.

Contrary to what folks may think, liquor retail operates on VERY slim margins, and besides the few exceptions such as Byrons, most liquor stores operate with very, very, little spare capital. It's not a business you get rich in. Most liquor store owners are just focused on staying in business, and have neither the time nor money to move a massive campaign. Much the same can be said for the in state brewing industry.

On the flip side, the grocery stores, gas stations, and the oil and gas industry in Oklahoma oppose refrigeration in liquor stores and do have the money and influence to prevent the change. You throw in the political weight of the anti DD groups, and you can see why these are slow changes.

I don't expect wine in grocery any time soon. That get's tricky, because it would require a total restructure of liquor laws in Oklahoma, and the liquor and wine industry. It's not as simple as just "allowing grocery to carry wine". ABLE would have to be totally revamped/re purposed, the wholesale/distributor system would have to be revamped, liquor licenses and their criteria would have to be totally rethought, and the process for getting them redone. Basically, it would require scrapping and completely redoing the entire packaged liquor laws and system in Oklahoma.

onthestrip
10-17-2013, 10:01 AM
It may generate money, but those who would benefit the most don't have the cash resources to lobby.

Contrary to what folks may think, liquor retail operates on VERY slim margins, and besides the few exceptions such as Byrons, most liquor stores operate with very, very, little spare capital. It's not a business you get rich in. Most liquor store owners are just focused on staying in business, and have neither the time nor money to move a massive campaign. Much the same can be said for the in state brewing industry.

On the flip side, the grocery stores, gas stations, and the oil and gas industry in Oklahoma oppose refrigeration in liquor stores and do have the money and influence to prevent the change. You throw in the political weight of the anti DD groups, and you can see why these are slow changes.

I don't expect wine in grocery any time soon. That get's tricky, because it would require a total restructure of liquor laws in Oklahoma, and the liquor and wine industry. It's not as simple as just "allowing grocery to carry wine". ABLE would have to be totally revamped/re purposed, the wholesale/distributor system would have to be revamped, liquor licenses and their criteria would have to be totally rethought, and the process for getting them redone. Basically, it would require scrapping and completely redoing the entire packaged liquor laws and system in Oklahoma.

But we could allow liquor stores to sell other, higher margin items to help out. Let them sell mixers, drink accessories, ice and cigarettes. If we were to ever allow grocery stores to sell wine and high point beer than I think it would be a fair trade off for liquor stores to have the ability to sell other non-liquor items.

jerrywall
10-17-2013, 10:14 AM
But we could allow liquor stores to sell other, higher margin items to help out. Let them sell mixers, drink accessories, ice and cigarettes. If we were to ever allow grocery stores to sell wine and high point beer than I think it would be a fair trade off for liquor stores to have the ability to sell other non-liquor items.

Oh, they'd love to. When we had a liquor store, we always wish we could. But my point is, making that change is difficult. It would require someone to invest money and time in lobbying/promoting for that change, (which was my point), two things the retail industry doesn't have.

bluedogok
10-18-2013, 08:50 AM
Liquor laws aren't just screwed up in Oklahoma, they pretty much in every state and at the federal level. Especially for those in the business of liquor.

Boulder Daily Camera - Taps flowing again at Boulder's Mountain Sun after ill-timed beer seizure lifted (http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-business/ci_24294623/mountain-sun-beer-seizure-boulder-colorado)

bille
10-18-2013, 06:45 PM
Liquor laws aren't just screwed up in Oklahoma, they pretty much in every state and at the federal level. Especially for those in the business of liquor.

Boulder Daily Camera - Taps flowing again at Boulder's Mountain Sun after ill-timed beer seizure lifted (http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-business/ci_24294623/mountain-sun-beer-seizure-boulder-colorado)

Perhaps but I'd trade ours for just about any other state, they all seem to be doing better in terms of craft beer availability and local brewpubs/breweries.

bluedogok
10-18-2013, 09:58 PM
Perhaps but I'd trade ours for just about any other state, they all seem to be doing better in terms of craft beer availability and local brewpubs/breweries.
I think that probably has more to do with the distributors in Oklahoma than the laws and available retail shelf space. There aren't any 80,000sf liquor stores in OKC that I know of and those are the ones that tend to stock almost everything. Hard to get the shelf space necessary in 1,500 sf stores.

bille
10-19-2013, 08:27 AM
I think that probably has more to do with the distributors in Oklahoma than the laws and available retail shelf space. There aren't any 80,000sf liquor stores in OKC that I know of and those are the ones that tend to stock almost everything. Hard to get the shelf space necessary in 1,500 sf stores.

Sorry but I have to disagree. The reason why most highly sought after craft beers that travel through our state to get to surrounding states is mostly related to our laws. Several of those breweries will blame the refrigeration issue and to a degree that is it, cold storage is certainly warranted and I can give my alcohol staling in relation to temperature spill to justify why it's a concern to many breweries but honestly there's more to it than that....I think! Either way, IMO the reason why we aren't seeing the Stone, New Belgium, DFH, Oskar Blues, etc. is due to our laws here, not shelf space.

Of course being a former liquor store owner I'm sure Jerry can chime in and validate or completely sweep the carpet out from under me.:wink:

jerrywall
10-23-2013, 03:26 PM
Sorry but I have to disagree. The reason why most highly sought after craft beers that travel through our state to get to surrounding states is mostly related to our laws. Several of those breweries will blame the refrigeration issue and to a degree that is it, cold storage is certainly warranted and I can give my alcohol staling in relation to temperature spill to justify why it's a concern to many breweries but honestly there's more to it than that....I think! Either way, IMO the reason why we aren't seeing the Stone, New Belgium, DFH, Oskar Blues, etc. is due to our laws here, not shelf space.

Of course being a former liquor store owner I'm sure Jerry can chime in and validate or completely sweep the carpet out from under me.:wink:

I'm sure the laws are the reason for some of them, but you'll see states with similar laws having those micros we're lacking (heck, Colorado is pretty close to our laws).

The biggest problem is our market is still catching up. 10 years ago the beers sold in Oklahoma were very limited, and the list has been growing at a very quick basis, but it still takes time. Pretty much every state has a broker/wholesale system. What this means is, when a brewery wants to enter a new market, they have to contract with a broker to be "repped" in that state. There are also licensing costs. So the brewer has to be pretty sure of demand to get into the state, and the broker needs to be able to also be sure because there's some investment on their part. There are also supply limitations. Dog Fish Head for example, has flat out stated their lack of presence in Oklahoma is because they can't produce enough product for their current markets.

There's really nothing in our current laws that would prevent any brewery in selling here, that I can think of. Maybe the 3.2 limit for grocery, as it might increase sales/demand, but colorado has the same limitation, and they have plenty of breweries. The culture is the biggest difference.

bluedogok
10-27-2013, 11:13 PM
The large microbrewers here like New Belgium, Avery, Breckenridge have done a lot of lobbying to make the microbrew industry flourish. The impact of beer on the economy through these large brewers and the tourist impact of events like the Great American Beer Festival wakes up some legislators. Having a governor who went into the brewpub business after his oil/geology career probably helps.

jerrywall
10-28-2013, 12:59 PM
Exactly. We've got to build the culture, and get visibility up for our local microbrew industry. I think several of the local breweries are doing well at this. Mustang, Coop, Black Mesa, etc are all generating buzz.

bille
10-28-2013, 05:15 PM
Exactly. We've got to build the culture, and get visibility up for our local microbrew industry. I think several of the local breweries are doing well at this. Mustang, Coop, Black Mesa, etc are all generating buzz.
....Choc (about to bring online a 50bbl brew-house!), Prairie Artisan Ales, Roughtail... Anthem will be online very soon, Dead Armadillo has already put out one release with more on the way too and let's not forget Marshall in Tulsa, whom was very much responsible in lobbying for the breweries being able to serve samples on sight at the breweries.

The buzz is being built and more craft breweries are and will continue to pop up in our state, but unfortunately at a slow pace considering a laws that are pro-winery at this point. Hopefully this will change soon, at least giving parity to breweries so they can at least compete with wineries (in terms of onsight samples, sales, etc.), cold-storage is an entirely different animal and although important will have to be tackled on its own.

jerrywall
10-28-2013, 05:39 PM
Well, tasting rooms are opening soon. Friday the new tasting laws go into effect.

Good beer doesn't need cold storage once the brewing/fermenting process is done (IMO).

bchris02
10-28-2013, 10:10 PM
Well, tasting rooms are opening soon. Friday the new tasting laws go into effect.

Good beer doesn't need cold storage once the brewing/fermenting process is done (IMO).

I agree. I have European friends who actually say if a beer is undrinkable at room temperature or slightly cooler, then its bad beer. If you think about it, beer has been around and perfected as an art for thousands of years but refrigeration has only been widely available for about a century, if even that long.

RadicalModerate
10-28-2013, 10:53 PM
I agree. I have European friends who actually say if a beer is undrinkable at room temperature or slightly cooler, then its bad beer. If you think about it, beer has been around and perfected as an art for thousands of years but refrigeration has only been widely available for about a century, if even that long.

It may not be "bad" beer . . . Yet it is certainly "cheap" beer.
(Them "Euros" can be a little snooty sometimes. beer-wise.)

Still . . . I agree wholeheartedly with their general premise within this context.