Are there any liquor laws needing changed to allow a place like Spec's to open here? Not sure what is required for that, but they would probably kill it here!

limits on number of permits allowed. chains don't want to come in, because they are limited in number of stores.

I thought the limits were done away with.

Off topic but Wells Fargo told me the reason they have no branches in Oklahoma is due to federal law limiting how many stores they can have. I thought that was odd.

I'm guessing the mom and pop stores will stay closed on Sunday but the Byron's of the world will take advantage of that extra day of sales.

I thought the limits were done away with.

Off topic but Wells Fargo told me the reason they have no branches in Oklahoma is due to federal law limiting how many stores they can have. I thought that was odd.

i don't think such a law exists

Are there any liquor laws needing changed to allow a place like Spec's to open here? Not sure what is required for that, but they would probably kill it here!

I can't think of specific law changes, but really the whole market just really isn't setup for multi-state liquor retailers. I believer there are currently no multi-state liquor chains (although I could be wrong). Honestly, the only value to even try it is brand value, which I'm not sure is that valuable in something as commoditized as retail liquor. Each state would essentially be their own entity, they couldn't combine inventory or ordering, transfer products between stores, or even guarantee the availability of the same products/selection from one state to the next.

And, Oklahoma's liquor retail market is pretty saturated. There's not a lot of room for someone to come in and make tons of money to make it worthwhile.

Somehow I totally failed to notice that this was on the ballot yesterday, up to and including not seeing the question on the ballots I filled out. Does anyone know the numbers by which it won in Oklahoma county?

Somehow I totally failed to notice that this was on the ballot yesterday, up to and including not seeing the question on the ballots I filled out. Does anyone know the numbers by which it won in Oklahoma county?

70.73% yes 29.27 NO

Old Law:
Liquor Store Licenses have to be in the name of a Oklahoma resident, and an Oklahoma resident is limited to 1 license.

New Law:
Liquor Store Licenses have to be in the name of a Oklahoma resident, and an Oklahoma resident is limited to 2 licenses.

Chains are not allowed, out of state ownership is not allowed.

^^^ hopefully that changes. That seems like a reasonable next step in liquor reform laws.

^^^ hopefully that changes. That seems like a reasonable next step in liquor reform laws.

YEAH!!!! Go to hell local business and local liquor store owners! You SOBs need to be punished and ground into the dirt so we can ship even MORE of our money out of state. All hail Specs and chains!

Old Law:
Liquor Store Licenses have to be in the name of a Oklahoma resident, and an Oklahoma resident is limited to 1 license.

New Law:
Liquor Store Licenses have to be in the name of a Oklahoma resident, and an Oklahoma resident is limited to 2 licenses.

Chains are not allowed, out of state ownership is not allowed.

thanks swake. i knew it was something like that, but not the exact specifics.

YEAH!!!! Go to hell local business and local liquor store owners! You SOBs need to be punished and ground into the dirt so we can ship even MORE of our money out of state. All hail Specs and chains!

wow... the escalated quickly.

YEAH!!!! Go to hell local business and local liquor store owners! You SOBs need to be punished and ground into the dirt so we can ship even MORE of our money out of state. All hail Specs and chains!
That’s the free market. If you don’t support the free market I can understand your position.

That’s the free market. If you don’t support the free market I can understand your position.

It’s nothing remotely close to a free market. That issue doesn’t even apply here.

Spec’s and OK liquor have been operating under an entirely different set of rules for over 50 years. Those rules allowed Specs to build a war chest they would happily use to crush every store in Oklahoma they possibly could. Meanwhile OK handicapped theirs by only allowing 1 store per person.

Nuance isn’t your thing though. Rather just make lazy, broad, generic, statements.

^^^ please explain to me how preventing chains from entering the market makes for a free market?

YEAH!!!! Go to hell local business and local liquor store owners! You SOBs need to be punished and ground into the dirt so we can ship even MORE of our money out of state. All hail Specs and chains!

Why do you hate the free market?

Well, there is something to be said... what does Oklahoma gain by allowing an out of state chain to come in and open up liquor stores, sending local money out of state?

It won't increase selection. It won't increase availability (that's not an issue). It can't really even effect prices. This isn't like when you're talking about bringing in Ikea or Trader Joes or such which brings new products and offerings to the state. This would be, hey, lets open this up... because... um... I went to Specs once and liked it?

Retail Liquor is commoditized. We don't need to be looking out of state for retailers. Most of the shops owned in state are families' income and retirement. They're our friends and neighbors. That half a pint of Burnetts will taste the same from Byron's or Sam's as it would from Specs.

Well, there is something to be said... what does Oklahoma gain by allowing an out of state chain to come in and open up liquor stores, sending local money out of state?Well by your own account a) you have owned a liquor store so you have personal bias in this case which is fine and I understand the emotional connection and B) you have stated in response to me that even if allowed liquor stores would still close during sundays and late at night for the most part as the owners may simply not want to be open or the business might not be there. For a chain it is almost guaranteed to have later hours and they can be big enough to not worry about minor losses by being open at night. I am sure a chain would stay open as much as possible and a few stores around OKC would certainly be open as much as possible.

Increased competition is a good thing and the consumer would gain from it.


It won't increase selection. It won't increase availability (that's not an issue). It can't really even effect prices. This isn't like when you're talking about bringing in Ikea or Trader Joes or such which brings new products and offerings to the state. This would be, hey, lets open this up... because... um... I went to Specs once and liked it?This is not entirely true. There have been times where it has been hard to find a specific drink that I can find here in California in many instances and why would a chain not bring new or hard to find products? I don't buy this. I have consistently found that in states with chains prices are lower than mom and pop liquor stores.

To your last sentence, yes. I liked the store and I want one in Oklahoma. What is the problem with that? They are successful in other cities why wouldn't they be in Oklahoma.



Retail Liquor is commoditized. We don't need to be looking out of state for retailers. Most of the shops owned in state are families' income and retirement. They're our friends and neighbors. That half a pint of Burnetts will taste the same from Byron's or Sam's as it would from Specs.
With this logic then lets ban out of state electronic store chains, mattress chains, furniture store chains... hell lets just force every type of store to be local owned only. Why does that only have to be the case with liquor stores.

We might as well go Weather's audio and video in downtown Edmond and ask him to formulate policy on whether we should allow Best Buy to operate in the state or not.

Why do you hate the free market?

Because none of the stuff at the market is, in fact, free. #FalseAdvertising

Because none of the stuff at the market is, in fact, free. #FalseAdvertising

Haaaaa! This guy gets it.
Also, I love Specs and total wine.

Well by your own account a) you have owned a liquor store so you have personal bias in this case which is fine and I understand the emotional connection and B) you have stated in response to me that even if allowed liquor stores would still close during sundays and late at night for the most part as the owners may simply not want to be open or the business might not be there. For a chain it is almost guaranteed to have later hours and they can be big enough to not worry about minor losses by being open at night. I am sure a chain would stay open as much as possible and a few stores around OKC would certainly be open as much as possible.

First of all, you need to learn the difference between bias, and perspective as well as experience and knowledge. As for the rest, we don't need out of state chains to have stores open later. We have them already.



Increased competition is a good thing and the consumer would gain from it.

This is not entirely true. There have been times where it has been hard to find a specific drink that I can find here in California in many instances and why would a chain not bring new or hard to find products? I don't buy this. I have consistently found that in states with chains prices are lower than mom and pop liquor stores.


This is where your lack of knowledge of how the industry works come in, although it's been covered on this board enough that you should get this. All The Liquor Stores In Oklahoma Have Access To The Same Products. Products are brought into Oklahoma and to liquor stores through the wholesale and brokerage system. All the stores get access to those products. Now yeah, some stores in the state may carry more than other stores, but a new out of state chain won't be bringing in new products to the state. They won't be able to get anything you can't get at Byrons or 1000+ other liquor stores. So zero value. As for pricing? Meh. I used to price compare 200+ items between Specs, Byrons, a couple of other local places, and our own shop on a weekly basis. I'd find one off things that were up and down but overall Byrons (and most of the Oklahoma stores truly) were lower than specs. As you're so proud of saying, increased competition is good. I'd rather have 1000+ individual liquor stores competing for my business than one megachain. All stores pay the same prices for products. And, with a small amount of variation, they tend to operate with a similar markup on average. Now, various stores cut the margin thinner on certain products and increase it on others, but it tends to balance out, with the larger stores like Byrons obviously falling towards the slimmer margin average. Stores in similar geographic areas tend to be similarly priced. Sure, the prices in Welston or Luthor will tend to be higher than in the cities, but that's typical.



To your last sentence, yes. I liked the store and I want one in Oklahoma. What is the problem with that? They are successful in other cities why wouldn't they be in Oklahoma.


They are successful. In Texas. Because, as I covered in an earlier post, the market doesn't support/isn't set up for interstate liquor stores. And again what do they offer that ads value to Oklahoma? Or that you can't get here? Same products, same selection. Oh, there might be more of them open later, possibly? Ok, so that's just more money going out of state. I don't see the incentive to change the laws.



With this logic then lets ban out of state electronic store chains, mattress chains, furniture store chains... hell lets just force every type of store to be local owned only. Why does that only have to be the case with liquor stores.

We might as well go Weather's audio and video in downtown Edmond and ask him to formulate policy on whether we should allow Best Buy to operate in the state or not.


Let's move on past the stupid reductio ad absurdum games. You're better than that. It's not a direct comparison, and beyond that, no one is wanting to ban anything, much less force anyone out. You're the one suggesting the change. So it's up to you to justify it, and there's really no benefit that allowing out of state ownership of liquor stores that I can see. Maybe allowing local chains, possibly, although there's a deeper reason to limiting the locations to one or two per owner (personal and direct liability of enforcement of liquor laws).

And, what if it is protectionist? SO WHAT? Communities, cities, states, and countries can and should be protectionist of their native businesses. We should maybe stop chasing out of state chains to Oklahoma, especially if they cost us money (incentives) and also if they don't bring anything new to Oklahoma, and would only take way from local owners. And, again, with liquor there is an issue of direct liability. Yeah, we sort of threw that out of the window with grocery sales, but it doesn't diminish it's value.

If all store have the same access, how does Trader Joe’s and Aldi’s have their own wine selections, which nobody else has?

First of all, you need to learn the difference between bias, and perspective as well as experience and knowledge. As for the rest, we don't need out of state chains to have stores open later. We have them already.



This is where your lack of knowledge of how the industry works come in, although it's been covered on this board enough that you should get this. All The Liquor Stores In Oklahoma Have Access To The Same Products. Products are brought into Oklahoma and to liquor stores through the wholesale and brokerage system. All the stores get access to those products. Now yeah, some stores in the state may carry more than other stores, but a new out of state chain won't be bringing in new products to the state. They won't be able to get anything you can't get at Byrons or 1000+ other liquor stores. So zero value. As for pricing? Meh. I used to price compare 200+ items between Specs, Byrons, a couple of other local places, and our own shop on a weekly basis. I'd find one off things that were up and down but overall Byrons (and most of the Oklahoma stores truly) were lower than specs. As you're so proud of saying, increased competition is good. I'd rather have 1000+ individual liquor stores competing for my business than one megachain. All stores pay the same prices for products. And, with a small amount of variation, they tend to operate with a similar markup on average. Now, various stores cut the margin thinner on certain products and increase it on others, but it tends to balance out, with the larger stores like Byrons obviously falling towards the slimmer margin average. Stores in similar geographic areas tend to be similarly priced. Sure, the prices in Welston or Luthor will tend to be higher than in the cities, but that's typical.



They are successful. In Texas. Because, as I covered in an earlier post, the market doesn't support/isn't set up for interstate liquor stores. And again what do they offer that ads value to Oklahoma? Or that you can't get here? Same products, same selection. Oh, there might be more of them open later, possibly? Ok, so that's just more money going out of state. I don't see the incentive to change the laws.



Let's move on past the stupid reductio ad absurdum games. You're better than that. It's not a direct comparison, and beyond that, no one is wanting to ban anything, much less force anyone out. You're the one suggesting the change. So it's up to you to justify it, and there's really no benefit that allowing out of state ownership of liquor stores that I can see. Maybe allowing local chains, possibly, although there's a deeper reason to limiting the locations to one or two per owner (personal and direct liability of enforcement of liquor laws).

And, what if it is protectionist? SO WHAT? Communities, cities, states, and countries can and should be protectionist of their native businesses. We should maybe stop chasing out of state chains to Oklahoma, especially if they cost us money (incentives) and also if they don't bring anything new to Oklahoma, and would only take way from local owners. And, again, with liquor there is an issue of direct liability. Yeah, we sort of threw that out of the window with grocery sales, but it doesn't diminish it's value.
Maybe I misused the term bias but it’s no surprise to me you would be against chains and I’m not bashing you for that. I get it. I value local stores but above all I support the free market.

One of the key words you said about liquor stores having access is different from them actually carrying the product. Several types of special vodka infused with glitter I could not find in Oklahoma and neither in local LA liquor stores but the big chains have it or did. Maybe some liquor stores might carry it but explain how a local liquor store carries the same variety of products a massive chain store does?

I’ve stayed why I think we should get chains in Oklahoma. I personally prefer stores Specs, Total Wine, and BevMo. No liquor store in Oklahoma comes close.

I agree with you on 99% of what you post but not in this case. I think Oklahoma would benefit from allowing chain liquor stores and yes we would see many local liquor stores close but that is because the chains are better. Sorry but it’s true.

A bill is being drafted to permanently allow home delivery and curbside pickup.

https://kfor.com/news/alcohol-delivery-lasting-after-covid/

https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/13/bill-allowing-delivery-of-alcohol-advances/

This is a next step. In no particular order, we just now need to allow 24 hour sales, spirits and liquor sold in grocery stores and pharmacies, and chain stores removing the one store per person thing. If we do those three things Oklahoma will have a completely modernized and free system.

A bill is being drafted to permanently allow home delivery and curbside pickup.

https://kfor.com/news/alcohol-delivery-lasting-after-covid/

https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/13/bill-allowing-delivery-of-alcohol-advances/

This is a next step. In no particular order, we just now need to allow 24 hour sales, spirits and liquor sold in grocery stores and pharmacies, and chain stores removing the one store per person thing. If we do those three things Oklahoma will have a completely modernized and free system.

Is it possible to buy stock in AA?

Is it possible to buy stock in AA?
The way it’s going for me I’ll contribute to the increased value of it.

Is it possible to buy stock in AA?

and how will this lead to more alcoholics? those that would use this service were already going to drink. now they can do it safely and not drive.

and how will this lead to more alcoholics? those that would use this service were already going to drink. now they can do it safely and not drive.
I think he was referring to my wishlist. Judging by his posting habits he is being facetious but many others do feel like it would lead to more drinking which is a myth. It just makes it easier for those who already do it. Oh well. Nothing like showing up at six am sharp to buy some liquor and get a fix. ;)

A bill is being drafted to permanently allow home delivery and curbside pickup.

https://kfor.com/news/alcohol-delivery-lasting-after-covid/

https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/13/bill-allowing-delivery-of-alcohol-advances/

This is a next step. In no particular order, we just now need to allow 24 hour sales, spirits and liquor sold in grocery stores and pharmacies, and chain stores removing the one store per person thing. If we do those three things Oklahoma will have a completely modernized and free system.I hope! I’ve actually loved getting everything I can curbside. Though I’m probably getting really lazy.

Actually, I think this is a great idea. It seems like it could lower instances of drunk driving. If the driver is checking your ID, I don’t know what a rational argument against home delivery would be.

Home delivery....... going back to the days when the Townley's Dairy guys in white uniforms and hats and funny looking trucks delivered milk, ice cream and eggs to your door.

Now it will be people delivering Jack Daniels, Tito's and Sauza along with a nice, fruity cabernet to your door.

Home delivery....... going back to the days when the Townley's Dairy guys in white uniforms and hats and funny looking trucks delivered milk, ice cream and eggs to your door.

Now it will be people delivering Jack Daniels, Tito's and Sauza along with a nice, fruity cabernet to your door.

I would rather the diary guys... We go through dairy faster than booze

I would rather the diary guys... We go through dairy faster than booze

I think Schwann's still does home delivery. I see their trucks in the neighborhood and I think it's mostly meat and dairy.

I think Schwann's still does home delivery. I see their trucks in the neighborhood and I think it's mostly meat and dairy.

Ice cream Actually though..they do a lot of premade frozen food that is quite good. Southwest chicken egg rolls, frozen beef sticks, pasta dishes, frozen pizzas, etc We used them quite a bit before we had kids. With three teenagers...was a little expensive to feed them.

I suspected that when it became obvious that curbside and delivery of alcohol would work that it might become permanent. I like it because I’ve come to like curbside and delivery of everything. If I can going forward I’ll be doing a lot more business this way.

I suspected that when it became obvious that curbside and delivery of alcohol would work that it might become permanent. I like it because I’ve come to like curbside and delivery of everything. If I can going forward I’ll be doing a lot more business this way.

OTOH, my wife and I have always done in-store shopping and prefer it that way. If they're out of certain ingredients we need for a recipe we planned on that week, we can always adjust on the fly, not so much with delivery and curbside. Also, we find new items by just browsing up and down the aisles.

OTOH, my wife and I have always done in-store shopping and prefer it that way. If they're out of certain ingredients we need for a recipe we planned on that week, we can always adjust on the fly, not so much with delivery and curbside. Also, we find new items by just browsing up and down the aisles.

I feel the same way. Also if I am cooking a roast, fish, or even fruits and veggies I want to pick out that item to my satisfaction.

OTOH, my wife and I have always done in-store shopping and prefer it that way. If they're out of certain ingredients we need for a recipe we planned on that week, we can always adjust on the fly, not so much with delivery and curbside. Also, we find new items by just browsing up and down the aisles.
As far as groceries and such I will never change from in person shopping for the reasons you mention. But for booze, prescriptions, general household supplies, car and house maintenance and repair items and other things that I know what I want without thinking about it ordering for delivery keeps me away from exposure.

This bill has advanced. Looks like it will pass. Hopefully Postmates, Uber Eats, and other apps of the like will deliver alcohol soon.

https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/13/bill-allowing-delivery-of-alcohol-advances/

OTOH, my wife and I have always done in-store shopping and prefer it that way. If they're out of certain ingredients we need for a recipe we planned on that week, we can always adjust on the fly, not so much with delivery and curbside. Also, we find new items by just browsing up and down the aisles.

I will say I miss out on the browsing, but we made the transition to using shipt for our grocery shopping. It's been hard for me since I'm the cook, and I'm pretty picky on my ingredients. Across the board the shoppers have been great on back and forth communication and adjustments to my shopping list when certain things are out (which has been a more regular occurrence during the outbreak). I'll also say this - my shopping trips have dropped about 25% in size.... we don't end up buying tons of impulse items. It really forces you to plan out your trips in advance.

I guess the liquor store will have to finally create websites with their inventories, like everyone else across the country, especially if they want to compete with others that ship. Right now, only Tulsa Hills Wines actually has a wine inventory on their sight, anyone else?

everything old is new again. wish i could find a picture, but liquor delivery reminds me of the prohibition-era business cards that had a phone number and a short list of the products/prices that the "supplier" had available to deliver.

And maybe the next step is we can get delivery from out of state by mail. There are a lot of good whisky that can be bought online that never comes to Oklahoma.

I guess the liquor store will have to finally create websites with their inventories, like everyone else across the country, especially if they want to compete with others that ship. Right now, only Tulsa Hills Wines actually has a wine inventory on their sight, anyone else?Sean’s on NW Exp has a very good website.

I guess the liquor store will have to finally create websites with their inventories, like everyone else across the country, especially if they want to compete with others that ship. Right now, only Tulsa Hills Wines actually has a wine inventory on their sight, anyone else?

This industry has been tired for some time. It's about time they are forced to innovate (using this lightly, really just doing what everyone else does) and compete.

Petition going around in Canadian county to allow Sunday liquor sales there.

https://kfor.com/news/local/group-in-canadian-county-petitioning-to-allow-alcohol-sales-on-sundays/

Petition going around in Canadian county to allow Sunday liquor sales there.

https://kfor.com/news/local/group-in-canadian-county-petitioning-to-allow-alcohol-sales-on-sundays/

The county commissioners must have been too conservative Christian to enable a vote.

New bill proposed to allow delivery apps like Postmates, Uber Eats, Door Dash, etc. to deliver alcohol. It made it out of the committee. This will be nice if passed.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/bill-allowing-alcohol-deliveries-by-third-parties-passes-oklahoma-senate-panel/article_60f68040-7210-11eb-8499-a37199be8fab.html

To go cocktails can officially be ordered today but unfortunately not by any third party apps like Grubhub or DoorDash. Hopefully they change it soon to allow for 3rd party deliveries.

https://kfor.com/news/local/cocktails-to-go-are-a-go-in-oklahoma/

https://www.405magazine.com/a-green-light-for-cocktails-to-go/

The Mont in Norman has swirls to go. 10 bucks a pop and they limit you at 4. Game days are going to be a little more wild.

The Mont in Norman has swirls to go. 10 bucks a pop and they limit you at 4. Game days are going to be a little more wild.

I saw where the Jones / Fuzzy's are doing this, but they're required to put it into your trunk (i.e. you can't order one and walk out). I assume this restriction was included in the bill, but it seems a little silly.

I saw where the Jones / Fuzzy's are doing this, but they're required to put it into your trunk (i.e. you can't order one and walk out). I assume this restriction was included in the bill, but it seems a little silly.

i think the law is that you must transport it in your trunk / back of SUV ...... not that the business has to put it there .. that is weird of them ..

i think the law is that you must transport it in your trunk / back of SUV ...... not that the business has to put it there .. that is weird of them ..

I thought it was strange as well, but here it is:

17064

I thought it was strange as well, but here it is:

17064

That's not very clear: https://www.instagram.com/p/CTAzGAMlQKd/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Yep, the employee must place the drink(s) in the trunk

i think the law is that you must transport it in your trunk / back of SUV ...... not that the business has to put it there .. that is weird of them ..
Yeah that’s kind of weird. If you want to drink and drive it’s not hard to do without ordering a to go drink. Plus the to go drinks have that tamper proof seal which shows if it has been opened.

Yep, the employee must place the drink(s) in the trunk

thank you for the correction ..

http://www.oklegislature.gov/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=hb2122&Session=2100


3. The sealed container is placed in the trunk of the vehicle
or, if there is no trunk, in the vehicle's rear compartment that is
not readily accessible to the passenger area; and


i guess walkers and bikers are sol

i guess walkers and bikers are sol

I'll mount my drink holder on the back of the seat post on my Trek and see what happens.

i'll just leave this here...
https://i.gifer.com/PIJN.gif
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgifer.com%2Fen%2FPIJN&psig=AOvVaw0UEww552GB-mLr76jsqQOs&ust=1630092189661000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjRxqFwoTCMih0cS0z_ICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

i'll just leave this here...
https://i.gifer.com/PIJN.gif
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgifer.com%2Fen%2FPIJN&psig=AOvVaw0UEww552GB-mLr76jsqQOs&ust=1630092189661000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjRxqFwoTCMih0cS0z_ICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
Imagine getting pulled over with a straw extending to your trunk.