Retail Liquor Lobby Response to OK Legislative Review Proves Outdated Beer/Wine Laws Must Go
https://oklahomalegislativereview.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/source-post/

Well said Mr Lewis! Their argument is based on nothing more than greed.

If this ever comes to a vote it will be funny watching the liquor lobby trying to convince the evangelical conservatives to side with them.

Bars should have the right to close when they want to on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

I agree...but that will never go over in Oklahoma. There are only a few states that don't have last call and they are all heavy tourist states.

I think a great compromise is 2AM last call for alcohol and beyond that, the establishment can stay open as late as they want. Many wouldn't stay open later but some would.

If this ever comes to a vote it will be funny watching the liquor lobby trying to convince the evangelical conservatives to side with them.

That will be a real danger in terms of this not getting passed. The evangelical vote in Oklahoma is probably much greater than 50%. The liquor lobby will fund an opposition effort based on protecting the moral fabric of Oklahoma and the fundies will fall into line with no questions asked. Those who support liquor reform will have to counter it with facts and come at it at the angle of small government and personal responsibility. They will need to use tea party buzzwords to try to get people on board with reform.

Using terms like "modernize" or "liberalize" is a sure way for this to fail at the ballot box.

You've got the RLAO who is supporting modernizing laws, but wants it done incrementally, and with steps in place to improve enforcement and safety, and then you have folks like Mr. Lewis, who wants to demonize anyone who doesn't want 100% instant libertarian level liquor laws overnight.

And we wonder why stuff can't get done.

The core of Kerr's response which seems to have upset Mr. Lewis so much...


The RLAO supports sensible change to Oklahoma’s alcohol laws. We would offset the selling of “strong” beer in convenience and grocery stores by directing funding to the government agencies in charge of educating, preventing and treating our citizens regarding the misuse of alcohol. We would limit the ABV of products sold in convenience stores to 6%. This would allow 95% of all the beer they sell in Texas to have representation at every corner store in Oklahoma without introducing more dangerous, higher-point products like Four Loko and Steel Reserve. We support the refrigeration of the products sold in liquor stores. We support allowing customers to bring their children into our stores. And we support allowing liquor stores to be open on Independence Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and whichever day Mr. Lewis’ anniversary actually falls on.

Our proposal is not just imminently more fair to the small business people we represent, it takes into account the valid concerns of those Oklahomans who realize that alcohol is a drug which deserves to be controlled and regulated so that convenience is properly balanced against social harms.

Wow, folks are right. What a monster. It really is all about greed.

Bars should have the right to close when they want to on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

That's unrealistic. How many states/regions support that. Why not ask for open container laws on the streets too?

That will be a real danger in terms of this not getting passed. The evangelical vote in Oklahoma is probably much greater than 50%. The liquor lobby will fund an opposition effort based on protecting the moral fabric of Oklahoma and the fundies will fall into line with no questions asked. Those who support liquor reform will have to counter it with facts and come at it at the angle of small government and personal responsibility. They will need to use tea party buzzwords to try to get people on board with reform.

Using terms like "modernize" or "liberalize" is a sure way for this to fail at the ballot box.

We have done recent polling that shows more than 78 percent of Oklahoma voters are in favor of changing our liquor laws (modernization). The legislation will probably have to be crafted to give some concessions to the liquor retailers like allowing them to sell things other than liquor. The biggest challenge will be educating the voters since it will not be a simple yes or no question on the ballot. We are talking about 16 constitutional changes which makes it very complicated.

I personally like the RLAO's proposal and think its fair and sensible. While not quite as libertarian as I would like, I think it would be much easier to accomplish than a complete rework of the system.

The only way it really differs from the article is that there is a 6% ABV limit for grocery/convenience stores and not all grocery stores can sell wine.

In terms of wine, I think something that needs to be addressed when it comes to chain grocers is how many wine licenses can be purchased by a specific chain. For instance, I would hope there would be something in place that would keep Wal-Mart from snatching up all the wine licenses, leaving Homeland and Sprouts without the ability to sell it.

That's unrealistic. How many states/regions support that. Why not ask for open container laws on the streets too?

Personal choice does seem to be realistic. I also think there should be designated areas for open container on the street.

Personal choice does seem to be realistic. I also think there should be designated areas for open container on the street.

Laws on public nudity are also a matter of personal choice... but you're likely to get those laws changed any time soon either.

Designated areas for open containers, such as Bricktown, might be doable. But if someone was to say open containers should be legal everywhere, again I'd say "unrealistic".

As for closing when they want.. well, I believe 4 states allow that. I don't see Oklahoma becoming #5.

Laws on public nudity are also a matter of personal choice... but you're likely to get those laws changed any time soon either.

Designated areas for open containers, such as Bricktown, might be doable. But if someone was to say open containers should be legal everywhere, again I'd say "unrealistic".

As for closing when they want.. well, I believe 4 states allow that. I don't see Oklahoma becoming #5.

True.

That's unrealistic. How many states/regions support that. Why not ask for open container laws on the streets too?

Because not enough college kids in Stillwater would bother going to the polls to vote in favor of it, because majority of them aren't old enough to drink. It's why Eskimo Joe's birthday parties haven't been held in the street since the mid 1990s. College students failed to go to the polls to keep it that way. Most of them are away during the summer, anyway, when Eskimo Joe's has it's birthday party.

That will be a real danger in terms of this not getting passed. The evangelical vote in Oklahoma is probably much greater than 50%. The liquor lobby will fund an opposition effort based on protecting the moral fabric of Oklahoma and the fundies will fall into line with no questions asked. Those who support liquor reform will have to counter it with facts and come at it at the angle of small government and personal responsibility. They will need to use tea party buzzwords to try to get people on board with reform.

Using terms like "modernize" or "liberalize" is a sure way for this to fail at the ballot box.

I think Oklahoma City and Tulsa metro areas would make alcohol reform questions pass. The votes from there were key in making liquor by the drink pass in 1984. And the Yes vote in some of the larger small areas, such as Lawton, Enid and Stillwater, and others, would temper many of the NO votes from the numerous little towns.

Surely, a lot of people would see the ridiculous hypocrisy and greed in the liquor stores trying for the protect the moral fiber votes.

You've got the RLAO who is supporting modernizing laws, but wants it done incrementally, and with steps in place to improve enforcement and safety, and then you have folks like Mr. Lewis, who wants to demonize anyone who doesn't want 100% instant libertarian level liquor laws overnight.

And we wonder why stuff can't get done.

The core of Kerr's response which seems to have upset Mr. Lewis so much...



Wow, folks are right. What a monster. It really is all about greed.

A hint of sarcasm I detect!

Say and believe what you'd like. I personally know someone working closely on this and he says it's 100% greed on the part of the distributors. They have a cozy deal and they like thing just as they are. And that I believe, regardless of the statement made by the RLAO.

A hint of sarcasm I detect!

Say and believe what you'd like. I personally know someone working closely on this and he says it's 100% greed on the part of the distributors. They have a cozy deal and they like thing just as they are. And that I believe, regardless of the statement made by the RLAO.

The trouble is that defies logic. Any changes which allow grocery and gas stations to carry higher strength beer or wine (or even liquor) would likely still be distributed by the distributors. You know what the #1 selling beer is in Oklahoma? Or #2? Or #3? I'll give you a hint. They aren't sold at liquor stores. The distributors get nothing out of the majority of beer sold in Oklahoma. They'd love a piece of that pie.

You know who wouldn't like for it to happen? Domestic beer manufacturers, who currently sell directly to the retailers, can make shelf space and display agreements, and can make special volume deals and pricing arrangements. Unless all current liquor laws get redone, then that all goes out the window.

So you'd have to find me the financial interest in the distributors opposing these proposals...

You know who wouldn't like for it to happen? Domestic beer manufacturers, who currently sell directly to the retailers, can make shelf space and display agreements, and can make special volume deals and pricing arrangements.

Unless they already own one of those distributors!

One major reform could be folding ABLE into the OSBI. No need for two separate agencies and administrations.

Oklahoma group seeks state vote on wine and strong beer in grocery, convenience stores | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-group-seeks-state-vote-on-wine-and-strong-beer-in-grocery-convenience-stores/article/5476613)

Not too confident in this being that it will require a petition. This would have a much easier time getting on the ballot if approved through the legislature. Hope it happens though.

At least Oklahomans for Modern Laws isn't Wal-Mart like Tap Oklahoma or Cold Beer Now Oklahoma which is funded by Budweiser. People should wonder when out of state money gets involved.

Changing these laws just isn't going to be easy being that the liquor industry in the state is built around them. Colorado and Minnesota, much more liberal states than Oklahoma, still have similar laws on the books. Fortunately in those states, regulations on liquor stores aren't near as strict so they have less impact on the consumer.

I wish Oklahoma would simply allow liquor stores to sell cold beer and allow them to have expanded hours and call it a day. Of course, big beer doesn't want that, but they could respond by bringing their full-strength product into liquor stores.

Do you think there will be any movement on Stephanie Bice's proposal? I think it has a much better shot than this petition to actually get somewhere.

Whatever petition Wal-Mart supports should be able to get enough money from Wal-Mart to hire an army of signature takers. Maybe a lot of people would love to get paid for getting something like $3 to $5 per signature. Busy street corners might be worth $100 or better an hour.

Changing these laws just isn't going to be easy being that the liquor industry in the state is built around them. Colorado and Minnesota, much more liberal states than Oklahoma, still have similar laws on the books. Fortunately in those states, regulations on liquor stores aren't near as strict so they have less impact on the consumer.

I wish Oklahoma would simply allow liquor stores to sell cold beer and allow them to have expanded hours and call it a day. Of course, big beer doesn't want that, but they could respond by bringing their full-strength product into liquor stores.

Do you think there will be any movement on Stephanie Bice's proposal? I think it has a much better shot than this petition to actually get somewhere.

I'm trying to be optimistic about SB383 but there are a lot of interests on the table, hence all the new groups and soon to be initiative petitions to reflect their wants that have been materializing recently. I'm most confident in SB424 and hope nobody opposes AND that it allows the brewers to have a fully functioning tap room with on-site consumption. If nothing else changes this year I will be happy.

I'm trying to be optimistic about SB383 but there are a lot of interests on the table, hence all the new groups and soon to be initiative petitions to reflect their wants that have been materializing recently. I'm most confident in SB424 and hope nobody opposes AND that it allows the brewers to have a fully functioning tap room with on-site consumption. If nothing else changes this year I will be happy.

Nice thing about 383 is Bice has invited everyone to the table, so it would appear to not only have the most support from the industry, but it also is working out the legislation before the people vote. If the other petitions are successful, they still would need legislation to work out the logistics and make everyone happy. I'm hopeful Bice's bill will be the solution.

Just got out of Sean's Wine & Spirits and the lady helping me said to expect New Belgium in OK this summer. Said they just have to sign with a broker then wait 45 days.

Just got out of Sean's Wine & Spirits and the lady helping me said to expect New Belgium in OK this summer. Said they just have to sign with a broker then wait 45 days.

Was hoping it would be sooner, but better than never! Last fall I know they were hoping to be on shelves in January. Oskar Blues is also coming to Oklahoma.

Was hoping it would be sooner, but better than never! Last fall I know they were hoping to be on shelves in January. Oskar Blues is also coming to Oklahoma.

As a Oklahoma homebody, what is supposed to be so amazingly wonderful about New Belgium and Oskar Blues beers? As a homebody, Stilly Wheat craft beer, brewed in Stillwater is amazing.

As a Oklahoma homebody, what is supposed to be so amazingly wonderful about New Belgium and Oskar Blues beers? As a homebody, Stilly Wheat craft beer, brewed in Stillwater is amazing.

It's just taste, really. I agree there are some great local brewed selections, but as a self professed "beer tourist" I've travelled quite a bit and always try new beers, so I get excited when I can get something I've previously tried out of state or never got a chance to have before. New Belgium has some very solid beers. For me they're right up there with DogFish Head. Oskar Blues is not in my top list but they have a strong following. They have their brewpubs by the same name, and some other restaurants as well, and they have a pretty solid scotch ale called Old Chub which is fairly popular.

I'm having to get less and less of my fridgefiller from Dallas, which is nice!

As a Oklahoma homebody, what is supposed to be so amazingly wonderful about New Belgium and Oskar Blues beers? As a homebody, Stilly Wheat craft beer, brewed in Stillwater is amazing.

1554 is the only New Belguim beer I care about. All the others have better, Oklahoma-brewed alternatives.

1554 is the only New Belguim beer I care about. All the others have better, Oklahoma-brewed alternatives.

I like 1554. I also have yet to see an Oklahoma brewed Belgian-style dubbel that is better than their Abbey, and their Lips of Faith offerings are always fantastic. While I love my Oklahoma breweries (well, most of them - some things should never leave Krebs), there are some very good New Belgium beers that I can't replace with Oklahoma offerings. Although you can say the reverse about some of the Oklahoma brews such as Prairie Bomb (and Pirate Bomb!)

I like 1554. I also have yet to see an Oklahoma brewed Belgian-style dubbel that is better than their Abbey, and their Lips of Faith offerings are always fantastic. While I love my Oklahoma breweries (well, most of them - some things should never leave Krebs), there are some very good New Belgium beers that I can't replace with Oklahoma offerings. Although you can say the reverse about some of the Oklahoma brews such as Prairie Bomb (and Pirate Bomb!)

I've never tried their Abbey. I'll have to try it. Hopefully the rumor is true anyways and New Belgium is on its way to OK liquor stores. From what I've heard, they are planning to introduce 3.2 Fat Tire to Oklahoma, so I am sure their decision to introduce their full line to liquor stores is tied to that.

I've had confirmation from multiple folks in the industry that they are coming. So it should be a matter of when, not if.

I've had confirmation from multiple folks in the industry that they are coming. So it should be a matter of when, not if.

She named a few other out of state brewers were coming in soon so they made a lot of empty space on their massive beer wall to make room for them.

I'm hoping with AB/InBev purchasing Breckenridge that means we will see it in Oklahoma soon. I LOVE Breck's beers.

As far as votes, was reading today in the Oklahoman that there are potentially two petitions that could be state questions. One allowing strong beer in grocery, and another allowing refrigerated beer in liqour stores. The front needs to be unified here. Honestly, I'd rather the liqour stores have the chilling capabilities. My main reason is I like the guys at my local liqour store and know them by name (embarrassingly).

The thing about liquor stores and refrigeration? It's just a statue change, and can be done without a vote of the people. We just need the legislature to pass it. *holding my breath*

The thing about liquor stores and refrigeration? It's just a statue change, and can be done without a vote of the people. We just need the legislature to pass it. *holding my breath*

Exactly, its just that the legislators we have voted into office refuse to do their jobs.

Or it's not a high priority for them.

Or it's not a high priority for them.

But its obviously become a priority of citizens, therefor it should be a priority of legislators.

Its the same with education and judicial reform issues. The citizens have been calling for better teacher pay and judicial reform yet lawmakers have done nothing. Now there are several measures people are trying to get on the ballot. And in some cases its a mish mash of things that could confuse voters, when instead it would be easier and more efficient if it was done at the capital.

But its obviously become a priority of citizens

I'm not sure that it is. I have a feeling if I polled the 20 folks at my office on cold beer at liquor stores, they'd rate it as "would be nice". Not sure any of them would rate it as a priority. That's the biggest obstacle to various liquor law changes... apathy. For the most part, most folks are OK with things as they are, even if there are changes they would like.

Cold beer isn't going to get someone reelected.

I'm not sure that it is. I have a feeling if I polled the 20 folks at my office on cold beer at liquor stores, they'd rate it as "would be nice". Not sure any of them would rate it as a priority. That's the biggest obstacle to various liquor law changes... apathy. For the most part, most folks are OK with things as they are, even if there are changes they would like.

Cold beer isn't going to get someone reelected.

I bet the majority would gladly sign a petition for alcohol law reform if it was presented to them. The biggest problem is finding enough volunteers willing to go around with a petition, especially if they weren't paid anything by the signature and goes back to not enough people thinking it's a priority to do.

I bet the majority would gladly sign a petition for alcohol law reform if it was presented to them.

I'm sure. That's the disconnect. Folks would sign if presented, but don't care enough to make any effort.

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but Anheuser-Busch is really pushing some ads down my throat this morning regarding SJR 68: OK Loves Bud Light (http://www.oklovesbudlight.com/)

It sounds like they are fighting the modernization push while making it seem like they aren't. I haven't been paying much attention to this until now, but I'm having trouble finding out what it is that they are actually worried about other than free-market competition. All they are saying is that they'll leave OK if it passes, which I'm not sure scares people as much as they think.

Their campaign feels like its built on lies. The details of the resolution in question can be found at SJR 68 by Jolley (http://www.oklegislature.gov/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=sjr68&Session=1600), which in its current form is very simple:


SECTION 1. The Secretary of State shall refer to the people for
their approval or rejection, as and in the manner provided by law,
the repeal of Sections 1, 1.A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 of
Article XXVIII.

SECTION 2. The Ballot Title for the proposed Constitutional
amendment as set forth in SECTION 1 of this resolution shall be in
the following form:

BALLOT TITLE
Legislative Referendum No. ____ State Question No. ____
THE GIST OF THE PROPOSITION IS AS FOLLOWS:
This measure repeals Sections 1, 1.A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and
10 of Article 28 of the Oklahoma Constitution.
SHALL THE PROPOSAL BE APPROVED?
FOR THE PROPOSAL — YES _____________
AGAINST THE PROPOSAL — NO _____________

SECTION 3. The President Pro Tempore of the Senate shall,
immediately after the passage of this resolution, prepare and file
one copy thereof, including the Ballot Title set forth in SECTION 2
hereof, with the Secretary of State and one copy with the Attorney
General.

That particular article can be found at Article XXVIII (http://oklegal.onenet.net/okcon/XXVIII.html), and I don't on first glance see how it does what they are saying. Are they maybe campaigning against a different bill and are simplifying their messaging?

Oh wait, now I see, I wasn't looking at the committee amended version (http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20COMMITTEE%20AMENDMENTS/Senate/SJR68%20PCS.PDF).

This is something I brought up elsewhere. The 3.2 system benefits AB. Why? Because there are two sets of rules. For over 3.2 beer, there can't be shelf space purchases, special pricing, bulk pricing, etc. Right now, AB gets to make deals with retailers (IE - Wal-Mart) for the amount of space, merchandising, etc. If 3.2 beer is eliminated in Oklahoma, not only would they no longer get those rules, they also wouldn't be able to self distribute. So their profits would be hit directly, and god forbid they might not get their premium display and shelf space. They would be sharing shelf space with (gasp!) COOP and Mustang, and other such beers.

the current system protects and enables AB, so of course they oppose any changes. Especially ones which affect their pocket books. Nothing wrong with that, but it is about money.

This is something I brought up elsewhere. The 3.2 system benefits AB. Why? Because there are two sets of rules. For over 3.2 beer, there can't be shelf space purchases, special pricing, bulk pricing, etc. Right now, AB gets to make deals with retailers (IE - Wal-Mart) for the amount of space, merchandising, etc. If 3.2 beer is eliminated in Oklahoma, not only would they no longer get those rules, they also wouldn't be able to self distribute. So their profits would be hit directly, and god forbid they might not get their premium display and shelf space. They would be sharing shelf space with (gasp!) COOP and Mustang, and other such beers.

the current system protects and enables AB, so of course they oppose any changes. Especially ones which affect their pocket books. Nothing wrong with that, but it is about money.

Do you think this opposition would be enough to kill the bill? Do you think AB would really leave the state or are they just saying that to try to scare voters?

I don't drink AB products, but most Oklahomans do. Yes, it may cut into their profits, but would they really pack up and leave the state altogether when their beer accounts for an overwhelming majority of beer sales in Oklahoma?

Do you think this opposition would be enough to kill the bill? Do you think AB would really leave the state or are they just saying that to try to scare voters?

I don't drink AB products, but most Oklahomans do. Yes, it may cut into their profits, but would they really pack up and leave the state altogether when their beer accounts for an overwhelming majority of beer sales in Oklahoma?

Does their beer count for the overwhelming majority because it is arguably one of the largest and most widely available beers? I'm OK with AB leaving. If I can get cold strong beer at the grocery store or the liquor store, I'll stop buying AB anyway. Might miss their craft beers, but there will be plenty coming to replace it.

Do you think this opposition would be enough to kill the bill? Do you think AB would really leave the state or are they just saying that to try to scare voters?

Yes to the first, no to the second. They won't walk away from the state. They will put money into keeping the current system in place. I've said this before, but everyone want's to blame some mysterious, all powerful, liquor lobby (which doesn't exist) for resistance to change. It's not true. It's AB, and grocery/gas stations which resists change. Sure, they'll take change which helps them. But they have no interest in updating laws for the benefit of Oklahomans or the local beer industry. Wal-Mart and 7-11 are not friends of the in state craft beer industry, and people are fooling themselves if they think otherwise. I can at least understand AB's position, as it's their direct industry and they're trying to make profit. For the grocery/retail side, it's about merchandising and control.

The committee meeting in question is currently being streamed live at: http://oksenate.gov/meetingview-535.htm

If you look on news9.com or newson6.com you'll see that AB has bought out every single ad space this morning. Pretty ridiculous.

Do they have TV spots too?

Yes to the first, no to the second. They won't walk away from the state. They will put money into keeping the current system in place. I've said this before, but everyone want's to blame some mysterious, all powerful, liquor lobby (which doesn't exist) for resistance to change. It's not true. It's AB, and grocery/gas stations which resists change. Sure, they'll take change which helps them. But they have no interest in updating laws for the benefit of Oklahomans or the local beer industry. Wal-Mart and 7-11 are not friends of the in state craft beer industry, and people are fooling themselves if they think otherwise. I can at least understand AB's position, as it's their direct industry and they're trying to make profit. For the grocery/retail side, it's about merchandising and control.

This is why the best option for Oklahoma in the short term is simply to allow liquor stores to sell cold with expanded hours. Also, allow craft brewers to sell on-premise without having to sell through a distributor. If these changes could be made, it would make things much easier for the consumer without stirring up a hornets nest. I am sure these could be changed by simple statute if the legislature had the will to do so.

Any time you start talking about doing away with 3.2 beer, you run into this issue of AB and Miller-Coors getting special treatment and wanting to protect that treatment. They won't get behind anything that doesn't allow them to self-distribute, and the distributors won't support anything that won't allow them to get a piece of the AB and Miller-Coors pie. It's the same thing that Colorado has dealt with, and that state is far more progressive than Oklahoma.

Screw AB and the other multinationals that are about one thing and one thing only, always and forevermore - greed and making more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I'd be totally fine if I never saw another one of their beers in my life, getting so tired of corporations running America. Not sure what I can do to support modernization in OK other than write my rep/senator, and I'm definitely doing that, but once again, we the people have almost no power against the infinite $$$$$$$$$$$ AB can throw at this.

Looks like it passed out of the committee nearly unanimous with the title stricken.

Edit: 12 ayes, 3 nays.

Looks like it passed out of the committee nearly unanimous with the title stricken.

Edit: 12 ayes, 3 nays.

I was trying to find this earlier. Where did you see it, for future reference?

Screw AB.

Let them leave the state as it will provide more shelf space for quality brews.

Screw AB and the other multinationals that are about one thing and one thing only, always and forevermore - greed and making more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I'd be totally fine if I never saw another one of their beers in my life, getting so tired of corporations running America. Not sure what I can do to support modernization in OK other than write my rep/senator, and I'm definitely doing that, but once again, we the people have almost no power against the infinite $$$$$$$$$$$ AB can throw at this.

The tricky part is how do you define modernization, and how do you implement it in a way that doesn't work as a major handout to out of state corporations. There's a reason that Texas has half the liquor stores per capita than Oklahoma. IMO, refrigeration is one of the simplest solutions, and would not require a change to the constitution. Letting brewers sell direct (basically giving them the same laws as wineries) would also be a simple solution.

Things like letting grocery stores sell beer and wine, and such, gets more complicated.

The tricky part is how do you define modernization, and how do you implement it in a way that doesn't work as a major handout to out of state corporations. There's a reason that Texas has half the liquor stores per capita than Oklahoma. IMO, refrigeration is one of the simplest solutions, and would not require a change to the constitution. Letting brewers sell direct (basically giving them the same laws as wineries) would also be a simple solution.

Things like letting grocery stores sell beer and wine, and such, gets more complicated.

Here's my take on "modernization" - small steps: refrigeration in liquor stores first, as well as letting them sell non-liquor items (although this one may be complicated too, can't remember the particulars on that), and letting brewers sell direct, then move on to the grocery/convenience store thing. I've pretty much accepted that I'll probably have to go to a liquor store to buy anything other than rocky mountain goat-p*** beer for the rest of my life in this idiot state, but at least let me buy it refrigerated and don't make me go to *another* store for a mixer or straws or even a nice little wine-bottle gift bag...

So as of now, I can't remember off the top of my head what bill or joint resolution I should be supporting, sorry, too many other bills/JRs that I've been writing emails on, so I'll do some research back on this thread, but if anybody knows off the top of *their* head what I should ask my rep/sen to support, that'd be cool. :)

The tricky part is how do you define modernization, and how do you implement it in a way that doesn't work as a major handout to out of state corporations. There's a reason that Texas has half the liquor stores per capita than Oklahoma. IMO, refrigeration is one of the simplest solutions, and would not require a change to the constitution. Letting brewers sell direct (basically giving them the same laws as wineries) would also be a simple solution.

Things like letting grocery stores sell beer and wine, and such, gets more complicated.

Correct. I want to see more convenience for the consumer but not at the cost of AB pushing real, good beer out of the market. I would be happy with four things.

-Refrigeration in liquor stores
-Expanded hours for liquor stores (11pm closing as well as Sunday sales)
-Liquor stores can sell bottle openers and other accessories
-Microbreweries can sell direct

Of course, I would like to see grocery stores eventually be able to sell beer and wine but its so complicated because of all the different interests that are in play. Small steps is the way to get there and to do it right. The next step would be to do what Colorado did and allow chain retailers to have a single location in each metro area where they can sell full-strength beer and wine while the rest have to sell 3.2 beer. This might help get Wal-Mart on board because they would certainly oppose the changes above, which favor liquor stores and offer nothing for grocers.

So as of now, I can't remember off the top of my head what bill or joint resolution I should be supporting, sorry, too many other bills/JRs that I've been writing emails on, so I'll do some research back on this thread, but if anybody knows off the top of *their* head what I should ask my rep/sen to support, that'd be cool. :)

Senator Bice's SB383 is the one to support, unless it gets trashed by special interests.

I was trying to find this earlier. Where did you see it, for future reference?

I was watching the stream of the committee meeting, but now the results of today's vote can be found on the bill page (http://www.oklegislature.gov/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=sjr68&Session=1600) in the Senate Committee Report pdf on the Versions tab.

Giving breweries exclusive distribution rights in OK is a BAD thing. It's too capitalistic. First of all. Even the big local breweries like coop or anthem can't afford it. The trucks, the men, the order department, warehousing and shipping department.

But big breweries like AB, Miller-Coors, they can. And they already have the trucks and warehouses...this sets up a system where breweries could go under contract to use Miller-Coors' warehouses and shipping network. This in fact already exists under Miller-Coors roof using "six point" as a dummy Corp to distribute many brands of beers and expand their sales capability beyond MC and especially the high point beers brewed by MC. This company uses a chain-link fence to separate the 3.2 from the high grav that should be, and probably is, illegal.

The danger is, those breweries that currently have to use a broker to supply the beer through a wholesale system can now EXCLUSIVELY sell to 6 point. Now they can set the price and hold a MONOPOLY on that brand.

This only raises the price and makes it more difficult for a retailer to stock their goods.

The wholesale system makes it an even playing field for everyone. Even if central liquor didn't already distribute to half the state that is. But at least the prices are set monthly statewide by law. Every distributor sells at the same price.

I think what would make everyone happy is to give the Brewers the same benefit that the vintners enjoy and just let them set up a shop and sell beer. There's still the issue of price and tax though. And do you let the breweries have tap rooms for drinking where you can fill a growler for the road? It happens in many places around the world. But in OK that's a hell of a proposition.

AB will not leave, that's insane. But they would lose jobs to other distributors hawking their swill. Then again...on an even playing field they could bring in other products into their quarter million sf refrigerated warehouse. They're butt hurt because this means they won't be able to exclusively distribute their product, set their own prices, and treat their beer like a food product...which it most certainly isn't.