The record of Oklahoma for Child Abuse and Death is literally APPALLING and we all need to do all we can to stop it--completely...it is a national disgrace...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/11/09/2010-11-09_baby_dead_after_mom_tosses_infant_into_washing_ machine_launches_spin_cycle_cops.html?obref=obnetw ork

OK has a fantastic combo of good amount of poverty, lack of education and meth

This lady appears to have the trifecta

We've decided to give tax breaks to corporations rather than adequately fund DHS.

Too hell with children, we need more reusable mushroom containers!

Methamphetamines seem largely indicated...gutter-drug...easy to arrest the users--they are pretty damn obvious to see in public...duh...

And where are you going to put these people you want arrested?

Oklahoma needs to start spending the money at the root, preventative measures and education. But you don't see immediate results and tax payers see it as a waste of money.

And where are you going to put these people you want arrested?

Oklahoma needs to start spending the money at the root, preventative measures and education. But you don't see immediate results and tax payers see it as a waste of money.

And, meanwhile--put them kids on Spin Cycle...put the goddamn people in camps like Arpaio does if nothing else...children come FIRST--all other priorities rescinded.

]...children come FIRST--all other priorities rescinded.

Notwithstanding a significant amount of lip service each time we have a tragic child death, even the most cursory review of budgeting priorities reveals
(a) children do not come first
(b) children do not come second
(c) child protection is not a priority

Notwithstanding a significant amount of lip service each time we have a tragic child death, even the most cursory review of budgeting priorities reveals
(a) children do not come first
(b) children do not come second
(c) child protection is not a priority

It comes after teacher's salaries and benefits...parks...drainage...DHS is worse than meth parents--often...

It comes after teacher's salaries and benefits...parks...drainage...DHS is worse than meth parents--often...


way, way, way after.
FWIW, in case anyone may be confused, I'm not suggesting what ought to be. I'm merely noting what is.

Fostercare and jail are poor solutions for parents and families that aren't functioning as they should. It reminds me of the truism that dentures aren't a substitute for teeth - they are a substitute for NO TEETH.

Fostercare and jail are poor solutions for parents and families that aren't functioning as they should. It reminds me of the truism that dentures aren't a substitute for teeth - they are a substitute for NO TEETH.
I like how you can sometimes share your fine wisdom in one sentence, or two, without going off into an article.

It comes after teacher's salaries and benefits...parks...drainage...DHS is worse than meth parents--often...

After teacher's salaries where we're near last place in the U.S.?

Hard to buy that.

After teacher's salaries where we're near last place in the U.S.?

Hard to buy that.

Wait, I get a salary? *runs off to check bank statement" ...you guys sure about that?

More children die under the watchfull eye of DHS then they do in their own homes I am working on a new article "Children kept in cages" out of the cases I have researched so far all the families were foster families only in one case was it the biological mother and the boyfriend and they weren't actually kept in a cage on this story they were kept locked in a hotel bathroom. The rest were actually kept in cages like animals while the state was paying these so called DHS approved foster homes and the workers were so called doing home visits. Well if they actually did go to visit they obviously didn't care about what was going on.

Methamphetamines seem largely indicated...gutter-drug...easy to arrest the users--they are pretty damn obvious to see in public...duh...
Drug tests? Who needs em! We don't need any police or interdiction forces, just a few brave and mind reading people like JMR! I can't tell who the drug users are because, well, most drug addicts I know look like soccer moms, lawyers, doctors, and evangelical preachers.

But what do I know. I guess they look as obvious as....well, how would I know how obvious they are?

Let's give him a m-16 and let him summarily execute as well. I'm sure he can tell, just by looking, which ones have put their babies in the wash.

Yo, JMR, can you tell me the next lotto number also? I'd bet those are easy for you to tell as well.

EO, for most drugs, you're correct. Users wander amongst non-users, and non-users are often times completely shocked when they learn their friend has an issue with a substance.

Meth however is truly its own special breed of hell.

Many of its patron saints are more visible in a crowd than a full habit nun would be at South Beach at high noon.

A first time user, not so much, but that's the thing with meth. The difference in a first timer to the alter and a patron saint bearing the tale signs is a short trip.

Drug tests? Who needs em! We don't need any police or interdiction forces, just a few brave and mind reading people like JMR! I can't tell who the drug users are because, well, most drug addicts I know look like soccer moms, lawyers, doctors, and evangelical preachers.

But what do I know. I guess they look as obvious as....well, how would I know how obvious they are?

Let's give him a m-16 and let him summarily execute as well. I'm sure he can tell, just by looking, which ones have put their babies in the wash.

Yo, JMR, can you tell me the next lotto number also? I'd bet those are easy for you to tell as well.

Well, I can't go as far as JMR did, but I will say that as a guardian ad litem, it was fairly easy to spot when a child or a parent was doing drugs on a regular basis. And beyond that, it wasn't that difficult to figure out, based on their symptoms, which family of drug they were using, predominately. Now, I say that based on their behavior, primarily, so I don't think you can necessarily spot them on the street. But be around them a bit or have someone who is regularly around them describe their behavior and you can generally ball park the likely class of drug involved, even if they look like a typical soccer mom, etc., to outsiders. And knowing the family of drug involved is important so you know how to approach it for treatment.

I hasten to say that I wasn't in the business of diagnosing drug use. I'd ask the court to order them in for an assessment or a drug test. In my case, I didn't ask for that if I wasn't pretty sure but most of the time it was obvious, based on behavior. More recreational users aren't as obvious but some are. Moreover, certain families of drugs aren't your typical gateway drug and/or have a much harder chokehold on the user. A meth user on the street with no teeth who looks like they are 60 when they are 25 is, to be fair to JMR, probably the easiest to spot to someone, casually. I think we'd be lying if we said we hadn't seen people like that and hadn't wondered if they were using meth or dying of cancer.

More recreational users aren't as obvious but some are. Moreover, certain families of drugs aren't your typical gateway drug and/or have a much harder chokehold on the user. A meth user on the street with no teeth who looks like they are 60 when they are 25 is, to be fair to JMR, probably the easiest to spot to someone, casually. I think we'd be lying if we said we hadn't seen people like that and hadn't wondered if they were using meth or dying of cancer.
I agree. I would also add that consideirng the vast number of casual users in the world, it's surprising how few end up addicted.

Most people who use meth look nothing like the "Faces Of Meth" posters everybody has seen. Those are the extreme of the extreme and often there's significant other factors involved in the change in thier look--violence, car accidents, ect.

If everybody who tried meth ended up like the FACES OF METH posters, there might be fewer of them. However, they don't which might make that sort of propaganda counter productive to the overall effort. I've known quite a few drug users tell me they don't beleive anything they've ever been told about drugs.

We have a hypocritical policy about drugs. My kids are right now starting to get that much of what they've been told is exagerated.

It is easy for me to tell after being around a person for a little bit not only if they have a substance abuse problem but what that substance is. I've been around hard core drug use since I was in high school. I'll have to admit I've been a little surprised how some of the soccer moms I know got hooked on crack. I've yet to see it being dealt where I tend to hang out these days.

I'm not surprised how much prescription drug abuse I observe or alcohol abuse. Even those are surprising sometimes.

Prescription drug abuse was the drug of choice that made me absolutely nuts. This is your "typical" soccer mom drug and so many of the users and their families couldn't accept that the user had a real problem. And stuff like oxycontin was damn near as awful as heroin in terms of addiction and horrible changes in behavior. You'd have nice, upper middle class families supporting and defending their drugged out daughter for months/years before she finally ended up leaving her "abusive" husband for the guy with the tatoos, no job, and propensity to eye her teenaged daughter with a great deal of interest. It was not until a great deal of damage was done before they would admit that she needed help and that at least 3/4th of everything she said for the previous three years was a lie - including that her husband, boss, neighbors, friends and police were all evil and out to get her. Just a typical fact pattern. At least the potheads tended to be too stoned to do much worse than get super lazy.

Can't quibble with anything you have noted PQ.

On a brighter note, congrats on grandbaby watch! We've been blessed with daughter and her two kiddos for a few weeks now, a fun time that will most probably conclude this weekend. Her hubby has been in an intense training with the usaf, so they came for a late Christmas and extended visit at the start of the month. they'll be back for a bit come March when our eldest son and his lovely say their I do's. I gotta admit I'm really enjoying this Poppa, the Sequel gig.

I see a lot of stay at home moms in Edmond who are very well dressed, have great kids, and are plainly on meth. It's pretty awful, they look feral once you get close.

Can't quibble with anything you have noted PQ.

On a brighter note, congrats on grandbaby watch! We've been blessed with daughter and her two kiddos for a few weeks now, a fun time that will most probably conclude this weekend. Her hubby has been in an intense training with the usaf, so they came for a late Christmas and extended visit at the start of the month. they'll be back for a bit come March when our eldest son and his lovely say their I do's. I gotta admit I'm really enjoying this Poppa, the Sequel gig.

I bet you're good at it, too. I thought I saw where you mentioned a visit. I'm happy for you that you get to see them as much as you do. I'll be flying back and forth between here and NYC. Can't wait to spoil the little tyke.

Yes PQ, so much nicer than when they were still overseas.

Well as long as we have criminals working for DHS how can we expect them to make good decisions in the best interest of any child. If you have a felony most places wont let you work for them but DHS will. Too bad they don't do and act on background checks of DHS workers like they want to do on anybody DHS wants to falsly accuse of a crime they did not do. Unfortunately as long as DHS is not coming after you personally you are satisfied with keeping your mouth shut and letting the status quo continue on all the while more children continue to die.