View Full Version : OKC Media needs some self reflection - WE DESERVE BETTER



Pages : 1 [2]

jmarkross
11-07-2010, 08:26 AM
Where is Ray Soldan when you need him? He was the best the Oklahoman ever had.

TaoMaas
11-07-2010, 09:38 AM
If we as the public want actual news instead of fluff, opinion, and cats caught in trees reports, then we have to demand it with our money.

You're right. The reporting will follow the money. The problem is...a vote has already taken and the public opted to spend their money elsewhere. They advertised on Ebay and Craigslist rather than the want-ads of the local paper. They cancelled their subscriptions because, by the time the paper came out, they'd already gotten the headlines on the tv or internet. And they refuse to pay a subscription fee for online news. So...what do you get when the public demands that you go cheap, regardless of what kind of product we're discussing? You get McDonald's...not Red Prime.

Rover
11-07-2010, 07:30 PM
You're right. The reporting will follow the money. The problem is...a vote has already taken and the public opted to spend their money elsewhere. They advertised on Ebay and Craigslist rather than the want-ads of the local paper. They cancelled their subscriptions because, by the time the paper came out, they'd already gotten the headlines on the tv or internet. And they refuse to pay a subscription fee for online news. So...what do you get when the public demands that you go cheap, regardless of what kind of product we're discussing? You get McDonald's...not Red Prime.

Well said. But they want Red Prime and pay at McDonald's rates. Everyone complains about WalMart, but then make it the biggest retailer in the US because they think it is cheap. They want things made in America, but buy from Korea because it is cheaper. Real choices are made with dollars, not opinions and pontifications. The alternative is publicly financed news which = state run...obviously a bad choice in a free country.

Steve
11-07-2010, 07:48 PM
Here's the kicker: with Walmart critics say the dirty little secret is the "cheap" is made possible through slave labor in China. With Craig's List, it's proven that those "free classifieds" come with their own dirty little secret: they are meant to generate huge audiences to deliver to a web site that then mixes into the mix very profitable listings for prostitution (including child prostitution).
(http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/118979-lawmakers-slam-craigslist-for-child-prostitution)
Sadly, I never see threads attacking Craig's List.

soonerguru
11-07-2010, 08:03 PM
I agree that KOCO is the best of the bunch when it comes to local newscasts, which isn't saying much, unfortunately.

BBatesokc
11-07-2010, 08:11 PM
Here's the kicker: with Walmart critics say the dirty little secret is the "cheap" is made possible through slave labor in China. With Craig's List, it's proven that those "free classifieds" come with their own dirty little secret: they are meant to generate huge audiences to deliver to a web site that then mixes into the mix very profitable listings for prostitution (including child prostitution).
(http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/118979-lawmakers-slam-craigslist-for-child-prostitution)
Sadly, I never see threads attacking Craig's List.

Not to derail, but I personally never agreed with attacking CraigsList over their 'adult services ads.' Though I did always find it odd you could post a human for sale on the site, but not a puppy.

Steve, you mentioned early on...
I'm incredibly proud and giddy over the NewsOK application for Ipad. Our multimedia folks are brilliant and innovative

Where is that app? I found the NewsOK app but it definitely is NOT an iPad app.

jmarkross
11-07-2010, 08:18 PM
No one wants to wrangle and pop around a newspaper anymore. We sit in front of a screen (actually an ersatz newspaper to our training) to shop and communicate and learn what is available to buy, what it's specifications are and what others think of it. You cannot get this in a store of any kind. Try asking any retailer about the specs of a TV you wish to buy. Once decided upon, you order at best price and have delivered or arrange pickup. Infinitely better than before. That is the fact. This transcends demographics and age groups. Newsprint is a goner. And extremely wasteful...it is needless WEIGHT being dragged about the planet to no purpose--anymore. It is an expansion of the Television Age...and that took about 50 years.

jmarkross
11-07-2010, 08:22 PM
NewsOK Channel Four would be improved by explaining to the world...WTF the SkyCenter is??? And hire someone even remotely qualified to run the video feeds on news...half the time it is wrong, dis-jointed, does not work at all...or a meaningless curb shot that no human could ever think had anything to do with anything. They just throw it in willy-nilly like no one will notice. Absurd.

Tritone
11-07-2010, 08:35 PM
If a local news program can tell you a story is coming up two or three days in advance is it really "news" when it happens? My other gripe is "news that could save your life...tune in tomorrow night." Are we in peril unitl tomorow night?" Just my thoughts.

jmarkross
11-07-2010, 08:50 PM
If a local news program can tell you a story is coming up two or three days in advance is it really "news" when it happens? My other gripe is "news that could save your life...tune in tomorrow night." Are we in peril unitl tomorow night?" Just my thoughts.

True--the teasers are a worn-out carnival trick...I think these are the mindless decisions the hucksters make...their days are numbered and their paychecks are shrinking...they appeal only to the remaining feeble-minded that continue to watch the so-called "major" media channels...ABC, CBS, NBC...the wasteland...

HOT ROD
11-07-2010, 09:01 PM
Couldn't have said it better, Big D misey

Particularly considering OKC has the league's next MVP and everybody world wide knows Kevin Durant. I have been in China for the past few years - and when I speak to people about the NBA or my hometown(s) (both Seattle and originally OKC) - the first word is 'oh, Kevin Durant.....'

Yet, when I am in China or anywhere - I can't get up to date information on the team; it's always a day late unless it comes from ESPN, SI, or the NBA.

Other markets, even similarly sized - do a much better job of informing and writing on their teams, their events, their news. This is where I think OKC needs to change and the Daily needs to 'hear', look at the global audience because Oklahoman's themselves might not be the BEST guage since all they know (generally speaking) is what they have gotten from the Daily Oklahoman (so much of the same......).

a big league city needs to have big league media too!

dankrutka
11-07-2010, 09:15 PM
While there are exceptions (e.g. Steve, Jake Trotter...), the Oklahoman really has some objectivity/fairness issues when it comes to covering politics. I thought it was completely inappropriate for the states most popular new site to ONLY have Fallin ads and pop-up ads for "No on 744." Even if these organizations are paying for the ads, it seems to be a conflict of interests to run ads for candidates and campaigns that they openly support throughout their organization. I also read a recent article discussing local politics saying that "Obama's Democrats" did very poorly. Local Democrats are not the same as national Democrats (and I'm saying this as a card carrying liberal) and they have had to work very hard to make that point, but the Oklahoman ruins their efforts by it's unjournalistic techniques. In sum, the Oklahoman is a complete joke. They often get beat to stories by a weekly newspaper (The Gazette). The Tulsa World actually has investigative journalism (again, apologies to Steve) and makes the Oklahoman look like a complete joke. All of these reasons are why the Oklahoman has been ranked the worst newspaper in the United States. It is sickening and 90% of people can't tell the difference, but the 10% that can just have to put up with it.

dankrutka
11-07-2010, 09:17 PM
One other beef: If the Oklahoman is going to have a comments section under their stories then they should monitor it for bigotted and prejudiced comments that regularly dominate any article mentioning Obama or a crime or anything. It is sickening and irresponsible to give a forum to hateful people.

dankrutka
11-07-2010, 09:17 PM
Finally, if you want the best coverage of the Thunder go to www.dailythunder.com. Excellent blog site.

Steve
11-07-2010, 09:30 PM
OK, I've got one more thing to say: The Columbia Journalism Review article declaring The Oklahoman the worst in America was clearly horse-dung. I worked at The Edmond Sun. I know for A FACT there are worse newspapers.

dankrutka
11-07-2010, 11:11 PM
OK, I've got one more thing to say: The Columbia Journalism Review article declaring The Oklahoman the worst in America was clearly horse-dung. I worked at The Edmond Sun. I know for A FACT there are worse newspapers.

I'll trust you on this, Steve, but could you elaborate? Was it poorly researched? Why is the ranking "horse-dung?" Obviously, there is some subjectivity to these types of rankings, but what is it that makes it invalid? Thanks ahead of time.

ljbab728
11-08-2010, 12:13 AM
While there are exceptions (e.g. Steve, Jake Trotter...), the Oklahoman really has some objectivity/fairness issues when it comes to covering politics.

Kilgore, you obviously don't remember the Oklahoman back when EK was alive and running the paper. You would think it was a bastion of free thinking now if you had read it then.

Larry OKC
11-08-2010, 03:37 AM
Couldn't have said it better, Big D misey

Particularly considering OKC has the league's next MVP and everybody world wide knows Kevin Durant. I have been in China for the past few years - and when I speak to people about the NBA or my hometown(s) (both Seattle and originally OKC) - the first word is 'oh, Kevin Durant.....'

LOL

Guess you missed the Russian Sam thread where Sam asked who is Kevin Durant?

Larry OKC
11-08-2010, 03:41 AM
OK, I've got one more thing to say: The Columbia Journalism Review article declaring The Oklahoman the worst in America was clearly horse-dung. I worked at The Edmond Sun. I know for A FACT there are worse newspapers.

Always find it amusing when someone brings that up as it was several years ago. Read it and they mentioned the one bright spot was Ed Kelly (before he got promoted). IMO since he got promoted the Oklahoman has steadily gone downhill.

TaoMaas
11-08-2010, 06:43 AM
I'm one who used to read The Oklahoman religiously every day. These days...I just don't have time! During the week, my job requires that I'm on the computer so much that, regardless of what happens during the day, I read about it long before I get home. So even though I get a daily paper thrown (they're pretty much giving it to me for free in hopes that I'll sample it), most days I don't go through it. It's already been tried time and time again to charge for online news services. People just WILL NOT pay...end of story. These days, I really only have time to read the Saturday and Sunday papers. News media, in general, has changed, btw. It used to be that the 10pm newscast was the biggie for local stations. And, to a certain extent, it still is. But there is a growing number of people for whom the morning newscast (formerly just a 'throw-away' cast) is becoming their first news source of the day. It's taken the place of our 'morning paper with our coffee'. Getting back to The Oklahoman...even though I think they tried this several years ago, I think the time has come for them to try bundling their hard-copy subscriptions with their online product. Come up with a basic package that combines a hard copy paper on the weekends with a password that will let you access in-depth stories online during the week.

flintysooner
11-08-2010, 06:52 AM
I really like the iPad version of The Oklahoman although I haven't subscribed. Sometimes I have a bit of problem making it swipe right but maybe that's me. I still read the articles on my Kindle though as I prefer it for reading text.

jmarkross
11-08-2010, 08:27 AM
Offering the Devon Tower webcam as a *free* thing would help get them a bit of good will. Their "reasons" for it being difficult to do is as silly as can be. It simply does not pass the smell test--regardless of the mysterious "reasons" which are so deep in National Security mere citizens such as us could not comprehend the magnitude of the dangers...a public relations faux pas of titanic dimension... KSBI seems to do it for free...

Steve
11-08-2010, 09:18 AM
I'll trust you on this, Steve, but could you elaborate? Was it poorly researched? Why is the ranking "horse-dung?" Obviously, there is some subjectivity to these types of rankings, but what is it that makes it invalid? Thanks ahead of time.

OK, first the sources: one former reporter quoted, I know for a fact, was as unethical as one can get. The guy coining the headline was himself a political operative who worked for David Walters - a governor who was indicted based on The Oklahoman's reporting (not that either of these details were mentioned in the story). I'm not going to get into all the finer details of the article - do an expose on any newspaper and there will be some valid complaints (though I will acknowledge the design of the paper at the time was horrible and outdated). But here's the thing: there were and are far worse newspapers. The CJR article was a hit piece, and not a fair balanced report. It's like trying to expect Keith Olbermann to do a fair news report on the Republican Party or Glenn Beck to do a fair report on the Democrats.
It was horse dung, and there no objectivity or real research that went into the story.
Go beyond the rhetoric and give this whole debate some sane, rational thought. Find out for yourselves what value is still provided by The Oklahoman: compile a list of local news stories delivered by The Oklahoman on any given day, and do the same for each 10 p.m. local newscast.
I'll bet the newspaper wins it by a mile. I'm just not sure as an industry we're all that good at saying so.

Steve
11-08-2010, 09:19 AM
Webcam access is something I've explained jmark - there are other parties involved in this operation and this was the agreement we have to work with. I do appreciate that on the Internet we expect everything to be free.

jmarkross
11-08-2010, 09:22 AM
Webcam access is something I've explained jmark - there are other parties involved in this operation and this was the agreement we have to work with. I do appreciate that on the Internet we expect everything to be free.

Well...goddammit...if I was working down there I would get one at RADIO SHACK and hang the SOB up and let her rip! How hard is it???

It ain't exactly Operation Overlord!

Steve
11-08-2010, 09:25 AM
Jmark, trust me. I wanted what you want. It's a lot harder than you think. And yeah, there's a difference between live video streaming and the web cam here on OKC Talk (which I think is great). But if you want to buy up some tech stuff at Radio Shack and you can get live streaming set up, we'd be glad to show it at NewsOK.

jmarkross
11-08-2010, 09:51 AM
Jmark, trust me. I wanted what you want. It's a lot harder than you think. And yeah, there's a difference between live video streaming and the web cam here on OKC Talk (which I think is great). But if you want to buy up some tech stuff at Radio Shack and you can get live streaming set up, we'd be glad to show it at NewsOK.

Perhaps now is the time to go to the head office with a plan to make this happen--and throw it in management's face. You are well enough liked around town and within OPUBCO--I would suspect--to make it happen. Faint heart never won fair lady. And--you have all of us behind you. It is of no use whatsoever in the current configuration--a throwback to some long-gone ideology...make it happen Mr. Lackmeyer.

metro
11-08-2010, 10:29 AM
Radio Shack is still around? I thought it went the way of the newspaper biz.

Rover
11-08-2010, 10:31 AM
Perhaps now is the time to go to the head office with a plan to make this happen--and throw it in management's face. You are well enough liked around town and within OPUBCO--I would suspect--to make it happen. Faint heart never won fair lady. And--you have all of us behind you. It is of no use whatsoever in the current configuration--a throwback to some long-gone ideology...make it happen Mr. Lackmeyer.

I think Steve is saying YOU go set it up if it is as easy as you suggest and then OPUBCO will broadcast YOUR live stream.

jmarkross
11-08-2010, 10:36 AM
Radio Shack is still around? I thought it went the way of the newspaper biz.

Actually...I was using it metaphorically...they do still sell those leather billfold kits you can make--right?

Steve
11-08-2010, 11:32 AM
"Faint heart never won fair lady."
Good gadzooks man, you don't know how many months and how much work, etc., it took just to do what we did with the live streaming. The feedback I'm getting here essentially is the opposite of what's being communicated - that I shouldn't have bothered.

jmarkross
11-08-2010, 11:52 AM
"Faint heart never won fair lady."
Good gadzooks man, you don't know how many months and how much work, etc., it took just to do what we did with the live streaming. The feedback I'm getting here essentially is the opposite of what's being communicated - that I shouldn't have bothered.

So why is it still...a...secret society that rules it--a sort of Soy-ink Skull and Bones?

soonerguru
11-08-2010, 12:13 PM
Kilgore, you obviously don't remember the Oklahoman back when EK was alive and running the paper. You would think it was a bastion of free thinking now if you had read it then.

I think you mean E.L. The founder, E.K., hasn't run the paper since the early 1970s.

dismayed
11-08-2010, 09:11 PM
I have a compliment for The Oklahoman regarding an issue I have been critical of in the past. It seems to me that over the last several years there has been a marked-improvement in the grammar throughout the newspaper's pages. On the few occasions where something about an article truly bothered me I found that the story in question had actually originated with either the Tulsa World or the AP, and not The Oklahoman's staff.

I don't know if that is something that the paper has made a concerted effort to fix, but regardless I just wanted to say that it has been noticed and is appreciated.

bornhere
11-08-2010, 09:28 PM
This is a pretty hilarious thread. We start out complaining about the Oklahoman's overall quality, and when we get to specifics, it's... basketball coverage and a freakin' WEBCAM?!

You're getting exactly the newspaper you deserve.

HOT ROD
11-08-2010, 11:13 PM
bornhere, Im sure there may be more specifics that people will post later, give it time.

dismayed, very good observation - I too used to have issues with the grammar and you're right it has gotten much much better. That is a positive takeaway, let's keep 'em coming. We're here to help.

ljbab728
11-09-2010, 12:04 AM
I think you mean E.L. The founder, E.K., hasn't run the paper since the early 1970s.

No, I meant E.K. I remember very well what the paper was when he was there. E.K. wasn't the founder but built the paper into his empire. He purchased the paper in 1902.

ljbab728
11-09-2010, 12:09 AM
I'm one who used to read The Oklahoman religiously every day. These days...I just don't have time! During the week, my job requires that I'm on the computer so much that, regardless of what happens during the day, I read about it long before I get home. So even though I get a daily paper thrown (they're pretty much giving it to me for free in hopes that I'll sample it), most days I don't go through it. It's already been tried time and time again to charge for online news services. People just WILL NOT pay...end of story. These days, I really only have time to read the Saturday and Sunday papers. News media, in general, has changed, btw. It used to be that the 10pm newscast was the biggie for local stations. And, to a certain extent, it still is. But there is a growing number of people for whom the morning newscast (formerly just a 'throw-away' cast) is becoming their first news source of the day. It's taken the place of our 'morning paper with our coffee'. Getting back to The Oklahoman...even though I think they tried this several years ago, I think the time has come for them to try bundling their hard-copy subscriptions with their online product. Come up with a basic package that combines a hard copy paper on the weekends with a password that will let you access in-depth stories online during the week.

Tao, I too have a very busy day but I get up early specifically so I'll have time to relax reading the morning paper. It just depends on what your priorities are. You can make time for whatever interests you. As for the morning news, I usually have it on but basically only for any weather updates. It's alway just a rehash of news that I've already heard from the day before. Little new news happens overnight to be on the morning news shows.

TaoMaas
11-09-2010, 08:37 AM
Tao, I too have a very busy day but I get up early specifically so I'll have time to relax reading the morning paper. It just depends on what your priorities are. You can make time for whatever interests you. As for the morning news, I usually have it on but basically only for any weather updates. It's alway just a rehash of news that I've already heard from the day before. Little new news happens overnight to be on the morning news shows.

Of course, you're right. We make time for that which is important to us. But we wouldn't even be having this conversation if more people were like you and fewer were like me. But the fact is, these days, most people follow a routine like the one I laid out. Our habits have changed over the years and not always for the better.

metro
11-10-2010, 10:56 AM
Thanks. That IS an answer. As for a letter to your editors, you may recall that I've tried that approach before ... actually a friend suggested it then, too. The letter is fully set forth at http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2009/11/quo-vadis-oklahoman.html, originally posted there on November 10, 2009 but the post was updated December 5, 2009. It was sent to to David Thompson, president of the OPUBCO Communications Group and publisher of the Oklahoman, Christy Gaylord Everest, chair and chief executive for the Oklahoma Publishing Company, and David Kelley, editor of the Oklahoman.

I won't restate that letter here ... it is at the above link ... it asked 6 questions.

Responses were invited, none were given. Why should they respond? The Oklahoman has the only game in town and they know it.

Any other suggestions?

Doug said it right, I can't tell you how many emails or letters I've shot to the Daily Disappointment, only to find to no surprise it continually falls on deaf ears. It's pointless to keep sending them stuff. What do we need to organize a massive protest at the doorsteps of the Oklahoman Tower (aka Oz)? Yeah right, like they'd let us do that, security is unnecessarily tight there. The man pulling the strings behind the curtains at Oz won't listen anyways. I'm with Doug or whomever said, have a better option?


Jmark, trust me. I wanted what you want. It's a lot harder than you think. And yeah, there's a difference between live video streaming and the web cam here on OKC Talk (which I think is great). But if you want to buy up some tech stuff at Radio Shack and you can get live streaming set up, we'd be glad to show it at NewsOK.

Steve, we hear you use this answer, but then never hear an explanation as to the specifics of "it's more complicated than you think." Sure, I can respect the fact your bosses muzzle you and you're just doing your job. I even appreciate the large efforts you went through to get the webcam, I do. But if you can't speak, why can't the brass at Oz give an explanation? Or why even defend your employer if you can't give details? In the information age, it just doesn't smell right when every other company in America is offering a free streaming webcam for their construction projects, heck, even locally on small time stuff like Chesapeake Garage, Whole Foods, etc.

SoonerLakers
11-10-2010, 12:07 PM
In the information age, it just doesn't smell right when every other company in America is offering a free streaming webcam for their construction projects

I wasn't aware that the OPUBCO was building the DEVON Tower

metro
11-10-2010, 12:41 PM
NO, but they are offering a subscription based camera for the DEVON tower.

diesel
11-10-2010, 04:42 PM
Since the topic is really local media in general, I thought I would post something about our local TV news. I really like KOCO's news cast because they tend to just report the news in a 'hard news' type of format. I honestly don't watch the local news that often, but when I do I find myself tuning into channel 5 because it seems to be the only remaining place where I don't have to set through an anchors anecdotes or scowls in between stories, or opinion pieces that close out the newscast. That is really what I prefer, solid information free of opinion, and I wish there was more of that in the local news.

One thing I wish there was more of, because I don't know that any of the stations are really doing it, is in-depth local reporting. For example, it is amazing to me that we live in a world where I can turn on the TV at any given hour and see what my federal Congress folks are doing, live on TV, but for almost the entire duration of our state Congress' session I typically can barely recall even one video shot from the floor. I don't think I have ever heard a report of or from the state Supreme Court, except for the piece about the justice who died recently.

There is so much goofy stuff that goes on in this state that everyone just sort of gives a pass to. No one really questions why some things are the way they are, and definitely no media entity is doing much in the way of follow-up reporting. For that you have to turn to the newspapers, but even they don't do enough of that sort of reporting.

Here's a great example. ABLE stated this week that they have decided to ban the alcohol-energy drink 4LOCO from Oklahoma. Now I honestly don't care about this product or its ban. But what I do care about is why does ABLE think it has the right to do this? Does it have the right to do this? How is it that Oklahoma's health authority tried to ban smoking in public places a few years ago and was met with giant public rebuke and was told that something of that nature needed to be voted on by either Congress or the people, but this instance goes unnoticed? My point is that most often times our news organizations are really only "triggered" to go out and talk to someone about something when a large group of people freak out and get mad about whatever the issue is. It shouldn't be that way. There should be people out there constantly looking for the story, not waiting for a press release or a disgruntled citizen to bring the news to them. When I think of great news organizations around the country that is what I think of.

I watch KOCO 5 for Schambach.. Ohh and I agree, they do keep it straight and to the point with funnies here and there... They seem to keep their set up to date and their people attractive younger type folks..