View Full Version : City maintenance a joke



king183
10-25-2010, 11:15 AM
Is every single member of Oklahoma City's road crew working on Project 180 downtown or is the city just incompetent? There has been a huge, gaping pot hole in the middle of NW 23rd at the Penn intersection for AT LEAST the past 3 months. For at least those 3 months, it's closed down the left two lanes, leaving 23rd a one lane street in this section, which just happens to be next to a bus stop. So, when there's a bus, traffic is completely blocked.

It's a simple damn pot hole and almost nothing has been done about it. Because I drive this street every day and I was getting tired of the congestion and near accidents, I wrote the city in September and they sent me a form letter that told me to expect a response within 30 days. Well, on Day 30, I got a response that hilariously told me that there was a pot hole in the road that needed to be fixed--basically a restatement of the problem I told them about. Fantastic! The response did mention that several residents have called in to complain.

I see they've now cut out part of the hole to begin the filling process, but it's been like that for a week.

So what's going on? Why does it take a city at least 3 freaking months to fill a large pot hole that's causing traffic problems on one of its major thoroughfares? Is Project 180 taking all the attention? I refuse to believe that's the case; surely the city can revitalize part of downtown while maintain roads elsewhere. It's ridiculous.

okcpulse
10-25-2010, 11:26 AM
Road crews are spread very thin right now, but I believe Project 180 is being done by a contractor, not the city. Road maintenance resides with the city's responsibility, and there are a hefty number of maintenance projects happening right now.

That doesn't make this acceptable. They need to hire more help.

circuitboard
10-25-2010, 11:29 AM
I know the pot hole you are talking about, and it is unacceptable how long it has taken. I have witnessed similar situations all over the city. I am not expert on road construction, please chime in someone who is familiar, why does OKC have so many asphalt roads? If I understand correctly, isn’t cement more durable and reliable? Is asphalt just cheaper and easier?

okclee
10-25-2010, 11:29 AM
23rd street needs to have a 24 hour designated maintenance crew.

soonerguru
10-25-2010, 12:13 PM
You should try driving on NW 23rd between I-44 and Meridian. Constant nightmare. Terrible, terrible road. There's like a new pothole every week. I'm hoping that part of town will be getting some resurfacing love from the 2007 bond issue, which I enthusiastically voted for.

J. Pitman
10-25-2010, 12:21 PM
Road crews are spread very thin right now, but I believe Project 180 is being done by a contractor, not the city. Road maintenance resides with the city's responsibility, and there are a hefty number of maintenance projects happening right now.

That doesn't make this acceptable. They need to hire more help.

I'm pretty sure most road repair is done on a contracted basis.

metro
10-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Road crews are spread very thin right now, but I believe Project 180 is being done by a contractor, not the city. Road maintenance resides with the city's responsibility, and there are a hefty number of maintenance projects happening right now.

That doesn't make this acceptable. They need to hire more help.

That was my thoughts, I believe P180 has to be bid out by private contractors.


I know the pot hole you are talking about, and it is unacceptable how long it has taken. I have witnessed similar situations all over the city. I am not expert on road construction, please chime in someone who is familiar, why does OKC have so many asphalt roads? If I understand correctly, isn’t cement more durable and reliable? Is asphalt just cheaper and easier?

Agreed, road construction and maintenance in this entire state is a freaking joke. This new asphalt they are putting everywhere, most of it is uneven and already getting potholes. Yes asphalt is much cheaper than concrete, but make the argument that concrete saves more money in the long run because of far less maintenance. Mayor Mick has been bragging for years now about the bond money passed to fix roads and bridges, but I think some of the new ones were worse than they started, i.e. Classen Blvd., NW Exp and NW 23rd.

23rd street needs to have a 24 hour designated maintenance crew.

Amen, 23rd should be OKC's signature road and instead the new asphalt isn't any improvement. Hire some Texas road contractors. I'm all for keeping money in state, but on roads at least Texas know's how to build them.

OSUFan
10-25-2010, 01:07 PM
I usually don't get worked up about potholes and closed streets but what has happened at 23rd and Penn is a complete cluster. It it so ridiculous that I've got to think there has to be some rational explanation (even though I have no clue what that might be).

okcpulse
10-25-2010, 01:40 PM
Hire some Texas road contractors. I'm all for keeping money in state, but on roads at least Texas know's how to build them.

Keep in mind Texas has its fair share of crappy arterial roads, especially in Dallas and west Houston. The highways, interstates and FM roads are where the good roads are, mostly. Even then, Texas contractors have made some disasterours mistakes, namely on I-45 near The Woodlands. Here are five examples...

-Near FM 1488, I-45 was being worked on by two separate crews. The first crew graded the freeway a few inches higher going south than the crew working northward from SH 242. Work continued until a small gap was left where the two crews would meet to finish the entire section. Since the pavement base and concrete had already been laid in both directions, it was too late to correct the grading. They corrected what they could and left a dip in the freeway large enough for vehicles to bottom out. After two years of bottoming out, they finally shaved the surface just enough for the problem to go away.

-Between Reaserch Forest and SH 242. Same freeway. Only four years after the widening project was complete, TxDOT decided to reconfigure all four on-ramps and off-ramps and tear out the new-err-old ones once they realized what kind of a traffic disaster was being created. That project is still under construction.

-I-45 feeder road northbound south of Loop 336 in Conroe. The right lane was left unpaved for over a year after it was realized a buried gas pipeline was running through the construction zone. Eventually, the line was relocated and the right lane was finally paved. I mean, did someone NOT send out the memo?

-I-45 southbound south of Loop 336 in Conroe. An entire section of freeway was jackhammered and then repaved. My guess had something to do with drainage, but that is only a guess. This section was completed in 2008.

-San Felipe in west Houston near the Galleria. So many potholes it's a canyon. That was in 2009 so hopefully that was taken care of by a road project. But judging by the condition of the potholes themselves, they showed age, thus neglect.

Tha supermajority of Houston's arterials are an uneven concrete surface. Even after repairs, it doesn't take long before the area is disrupted by another project tearing out perfectly good roadway.

And finally, Texas is building roads and highways on borrowed money. I am guessing they are not required to balance their budget like Oklahoma. The last biannual budget and expense report for Texas showed $12 billion more was spent than was budgeted.

Bottom line, Texas has a lot of good roads, but it's coming with caveats. And they have their fair share of bad roads. If we want Oklahoma City to build better highways and roads, we might want to track down the contractor that built Lake Hefner Parkway from NW 63rd to Memorial in 1992.

OKCisOK4me
10-25-2010, 01:54 PM
You should try driving on NW 23rd between I-44 and Meridian. Constant nightmare. Terrible, terrible road. There's like a new pothole every week. I'm hoping that part of town will be getting some resurfacing love from the 2007 bond issue, which I enthusiastically voted for.

A guy came into my work near 23rd and Meridian to try and get us on a list of local businesses who are banding together to help customers who are unfamiliar with the area about the upcoming construction for the 23rd St. corridor. That's right...they will soon be starting on tearing up 23rd from I-44 to Meridian and laying down concrete like they did east of I-44 on Meridian. He didn't state when this was and he came through my store about 6 months ago. I'm hoping it will be started no later than Spring of 2011. But with the City of OKC, you never know. And yes, the money for the contract will be awarded from that 2007 bond money...

bornhere
10-25-2010, 03:23 PM
One lane of 30th & Western was closed for months while motorists waited on a repair.

MustangGT
10-25-2010, 04:19 PM
If I understand correctly, isn't cement more durable and reliable? Is asphalt just cheaper and easier?

It is called Low Bid. Yes asphalt is far cheaper to install than concrete.

hipsterdoofus
10-25-2010, 05:22 PM
There was some road damage on Harvey just north of park around some sort of access doors in the road awhile back. They just put cones around it and left it that way for weeks...I don't recall how long it was for them to fix it, but it was a long time.

Easy180
10-25-2010, 07:19 PM
Guess we should all hope for a second stimulus

OKCDrummer77
10-25-2010, 07:20 PM
Southbound I-44 service road (Grand Blvd.) at about NW 20th, there is a spot where crews started to replace a rough patch job. They have cut out the old asphalt and have left a gaping hole blocked off with no signs of progress for about a month. It's not a huge hassle, since it's not a major thoroughfare, but I've been wondering when the city will get back to it. This thread makes me wonder if it will happen at all.

progressiveboy
10-25-2010, 07:38 PM
Keep in mind Texas has its fair share of crappy arterial roads, especially in Dallas and west Houston. The highways, interstates and FM roads are where the good roads are, mostly. Even then, Texas contractors have made some disasterours mistakes, namely on I-45 near The Woodlands. Here are five examples...

-Near FM 1488, I-45 was being worked on by two separate crews. The first crew graded the freeway a few inches higher going south than the crew working northward from SH 242. Work continued until a small gap was left where the two crews would meet to finish the entire section. Since the pavement base and concrete had already been laid in both directions, it was too late to correct the grading. They corrected what they could and left a dip in the freeway large enough for vehicles to bottom out. After two years of bottoming out, they finally shaved the surface just enough for the problem to go away.

-Between Reaserch Forest and SH 242. Same freeway. Only four years after the widening project was complete, TxDOT decided to reconfigure all four on-ramps and off-ramps and tear out the new-err-old ones once they realized what kind of a traffic disaster was being created. That project is still under construction.

-I-45 feeder road northbound south of Loop 336 in Conroe. The right lane was left unpaved for over a year after it was realized a buried gas pipeline was running through the construction zone. Eventually, the line was relocated and the right lane was finally paved. I mean, did someone NOT send out the memo?

-I-45 southbound south of Loop 336 in Conroe. An entire section of freeway was jackhammered and then repaved. My guess had something to do with drainage, but that is only a guess. This section was completed in 2008.

-San Felipe in west Houston near the Galleria. So many potholes it's a canyon. That was in 2009 so hopefully that was taken care of by a road project. But judging by the condition of the potholes themselves, they showed age, thus neglect.

Tha supermajority of Houston's arterials are an uneven concrete surface. Even after repairs, it doesn't take long before the area is disrupted by another project tearing out perfectly good roadway.

And finally, Texas is building roads and highways on borrowed money. I am guessing they are not required to balance their budget like Oklahoma. The last biannual budget and expense report for Texas showed $12 billion more was spent than was budgeted.

Bottom line, Texas has lot's of good roads, but it's coming with caveats. And they have their fair share of bad roads. If we want Oklahoma City to build better highways and roads, we might want to track down the contractor that built Lake Hefner Parkway from NW 63rd to Memorial in 1992. Yes, Texas has a few crappy roads but I would guess that 85% of the roads in Texas are good. Texans are smart in that they use mostly concrete and very little asphalt. They also constantly keep up their roads and are constructing new ones on a yearly basis. Concrete looks cleaner, last much longer that asphalt and makes for a smoother ride. I sure wish Oklahoma would get with the program. It is sad that they will not, they like to build things in Oklahoma real cheap especially their pitiful, horrible roads.

krisb
10-25-2010, 07:54 PM
A guy came into my work near 23rd and Meridian to try and get us on a list of local businesses who are banding together to help customers who are unfamiliar with the area about the upcoming construction for the 23rd St. corridor. That's right...they will soon be starting on tearing up 23rd from I-44 to Meridian and laying down concrete like they did east of I-44 on Meridian. He didn't state when this was and he came through my store about 6 months ago. I'm hoping it will be started no later than Spring of 2011. But with the City of OKC, you never know. And yes, the money for the contract will be awarded from that 2007 bond money...

I'd like to hear more about this. Councilman McAtee has been mentioning the project as the NW 23rd "streetscape", not merely a resurfacing. It seems like he mentioned lighting and sidewalks being a part of it. I live near NW 23rd and Portland, so I'm very interested in the redevelopment prospects for this part of town. I hope they go with something a little different than the typical period lighting and such.

easternobserver
10-25-2010, 08:22 PM
If you want to compare city services with those in other states, begin by comparing funding. OK cities rely solely on sales tax. Sales tax is volitile, and represents less than half the funding committment that cities in other states are afforded. If you want city services, you have to be willing to pay for them...

bluedogok
10-25-2010, 08:27 PM
Yes, Texas has a few crappy roads but I would guess that 85% of the roads in Texas are good. Texans are smart in that they use mostly concrete and very little asphalt. They also constantly keep up their roads and are constructing new ones on a yearly basis. Concrete looks cleaner, last much longer that asphalt and makes for a smoother ride. I sure wish Oklahoma would get with the program. It is sad that they will not, they like to build things in Oklahoma real cheap especially their pitiful, horrible roads.
You don't get out of Dallas much do you? The majority of the roads outside of Dallas are asphalt, city streets there are specified by the city and they prefer concrete but TxDOT only does concrete selectively in the urban areas, they change to asphalt or that chip seal crap they call paving outside of the urban areas. Pretty much everything here in Austin is asphalt/chip seal except for the new toll roads. EVERYTHING outside of Austin is asphalt or has been destroyed by "repaving" with chip seal. I ride/drive all over the state and I would say a good 95% of the roads are asphalt or chip seal. Asphalt can be a great paving system if done properly, much smoother and last just as long, provided the work is done properly which is the problem. As MustangGT posted, low bid is a big part of the problem and inspectors who don't hold the contractors feet to the fire about the crappy work they perform.

For all of the problems at ODOT they are nothing compared to TxDOT, there is a reason why TxDOT is always under threat of being disolved by the Sunset Commission, they are one of the worst run agencies in the state and that is a pretty long list in this state. In the last budget they made a $1 Billion miscalculation in their budget that made it all the way to the state legislature. As someone who has dealt with ODOT and TxDOT on the design end I can attest to the fact they are very incompetent.Unless it is a bond funded toll road they build nothing until traffic is at a critical mass. I remember when 121 was a two lane blacktop and nothing but fields, it was still that when Stonebrier Mall was built and as that whole Plano/Frisco/McKinney area was built up in the 90's and nothing was done prior to traffic becoming a major pain. I also remember I-35 from Gainesville to Sanger taking about 15 years to rebuild. TxDOT has done very little about the I-35 problem in Austin and San Antonio, mainly because as a newspaper article last year stated, they have done all the "cheap and easy" roads and fixes they can do, now it is the time to do the "expensive and complicated" work to be done which means very little will get done.

Basing the view of an entire state as large as Texas off what you see in one city is a bit ridiculous. When it comes right down to it every state/county/city has issues with roads and how to address the problem, prioritize the work and figure out how to pay for it and there is no real good solution because there are so many road miles out there and they require maintenance and upkeep.

okcpulse
10-25-2010, 09:19 PM
It is sad that they will not, they like to build things in Oklahoma real cheap especially their pitiful, horrible roads.

ODOT has been replacing I-35 with concrete between the Texas line and OKC since 2000. Today, more than half of that stretch is now concrete. The same is happening on sections of I-40 west of OKC and I-35 from the Kansas line to Logan County. This is the same type of good, solid concrete surface you see in Texas. Other examples of good, solid concrete surfaces include I-35 in SE OKC and Moore, Lake Hefner Parkway (State Highway 74) from NW 63rd to Memorial, Broadway Extension from NE 63rd to north of Memorial in Edmond, and I-44 in Tulsa after the widening. The I-40 Crosstown is also getting the same surface.

Looks like they are getting with the program. Just not as fast as people want.

okcpulse
10-25-2010, 09:22 PM
If you want to compare city services with those in other states, begin by comparing funding. OK cities rely solely on sales tax. Sales tax is volitile, and represents less than half the funding committment that cities in other states are afforded. If you want city services, you have to be willing to pay for them...

You are both correct and incorrect. Oklahoma municipalities can only use sales taxes to fund general operations. However, all municipal road projects, capital improvements programs and school projects are funded by G.O. Bonds that are repaid with property taxes. Oklahoma City CAN use sales taxes as an option to fund road projects, but does not.

easternobserver
10-25-2010, 09:43 PM
A GO Bond requires a vote of 3/5th of the electorate to pass. Cities know that voters will not approve bond issues for street repair, unless there are special circumstances. Street repair is funded out of general fund money, which comes from sales taxes.

Thunder
10-25-2010, 09:46 PM
For at least those 3 months, it's closed down the left two lanes, leaving 23rd a one lane street in this section, which just happens to be next to a bus stop. So, when there's a bus, traffic is completely blocked.

How long is the closed lane? If it is just short around the damage, then the bus driver is the major idiot. Write to the bus company with the bus # informing them that the driver is illegally obstructing traffic. It is really not hard to stop just before or ahead of the closed lanes. These people can walk a few extra steps to the bus door.

soonerguru
10-25-2010, 11:01 PM
A guy came into my work near 23rd and Meridian to try and get us on a list of local businesses who are banding together to help customers who are unfamiliar with the area about the upcoming construction for the 23rd St. corridor. That's right...they will soon be starting on tearing up 23rd from I-44 to Meridian and laying down concrete like they did east of I-44 on Meridian. He didn't state when this was and he came through my store about 6 months ago. I'm hoping it will be started no later than Spring of 2011. But with the City of OKC, you never know. And yes, the money for the contract will be awarded from that 2007 bond money...

Hallelujah!

Larry OKC
10-25-2010, 11:36 PM
If you want to compare city services with those in other states, begin by comparing funding. OK cities rely solely on sales tax. Sales tax is volitile, and represents less than half the funding committment that cities in other states are afforded. If you want city services, you have to be willing to pay for them...

While they do rely heavily on sales tax, they also rely on Bond issues and the 2007 one included "$540 million for roads and bridges".

Unfortunately, it takes time and apparently from comments made during the Grand Prix Council meeting, it can take several years (possibly a decade or two) from the initial report to getting a bond issue passed and then actually completed. And yes, they were talking about pot holes at the time.

We are paying for the SkyDance Bridge out of 3 different bond issues (going back 21 years). We recently opened a new fire station 10 years after the bond was passed (2000). These are just a couple of examples of the snails pace projects move along.

Larry OKC
10-25-2010, 11:40 PM
A GO Bond requires a vote of 3/5th of the electorate to pass. Cities know that voters will not approve bond issues for street repair, unless there are special circumstances. Street repair is funded out of general fund money, which comes from sales taxes.

Is that correct? Thought G.O. bond issues just required a simple majority (but school bonds require a "super majority" or 60% to pass).

OKC voters did approve over "$540 million for roads and bridges" in the 2007 G.O. bond

king183
10-26-2010, 08:18 AM
ODOT has been replacing I-35 with concrete between the Texas line and OKC since 2000. Today, more than half of that stretch is now concrete. Looks like they are getting with the program. Just not as fast as people want.

The new I-35 lanes and those re-done in Norman are asphalt, not concrete, so that's not entirely true.

king183
10-26-2010, 08:19 AM
How long is the closed lane? If it is just short around the damage, then the bus driver is the major idiot. Write to the bus company with the bus # informing them that the driver is illegally obstructing traffic. It is really not hard to stop just before or ahead of the closed lanes. These people can walk a few extra steps to the bus door.

A better solution is to fix the pot hole.

okcpulse
10-26-2010, 08:50 AM
The new I-35 lanes and those re-done in Norman are asphalt, not concrete, so that's not entirely true.

Not with Norman, no. But from the state line to the Arbuckles (except for a small section that is still in good condition) and a 12 mile stretch in Pauls Valley was done in concrete.

I-35 from SE 15th to just north of Moore was also done in concrete.

okcpulse
10-26-2010, 08:54 AM
A GO Bond requires a vote of 3/5th of the electorate to pass. Cities know that voters will not approve bond issues for street repair, unless there are special circumstances. Street repair is funded out of general fund money, which comes from sales taxes.

The 1995 GO Bond, 2000 GO Bond and 2007 GO Bond all had road projects, with 2007 being the largest yet. All of the widening taking place north of Quail Springs is from the 2000 GO Bond. Hefner Road along the Lake Hefner dam was widened using Go Bond money from the 1989 GO Bond.

All if this is documented on www.okc.gov.

warreng88
11-01-2010, 07:52 AM
I drove by this area this morning and saw a concrete truck backed up to the hole. Hopefully the lane will be open by the end of the day.

CaseyCornett
11-01-2010, 09:46 AM
http://www.seeclickfix.com

king183
11-08-2010, 01:47 PM
So one week after the filled the pothole with new concrete, the lanes are still closed off for absolutely no reason. The construction cones and barriers are scattered all over the closed lanes, on the ground, some run over by cars. It seems the maintenance crew simply hasn't come back to pick up the equipment. This is ridiculous. I'm going to call the city to see what they have to say.