View Full Version : Animal Cruelty Laws

10-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Midtowner, do you have a copy of these laws that specifically state whatever it is word by word? And does it apply to fish as well?

10-20-2010, 01:43 PM
Thunder ~ go here....

10-20-2010, 01:49 PM
Thank you very much, Brian.

10-20-2010, 02:45 PM
What are you doing to your fish, Thunder...

10-20-2010, 07:56 PM
Penny, I encountered something very sad and disgusting a few days ago.

Remember how KOCO used to have daily LiveWire and some of us became daily regulars. Since it sometime got out of control, such as random chat, it was something they did not want (plus some liability excuse), so the LiveWire was cut down dramatically. Now the regulars go elsewhere to continue daily chat. It is in that chat area that something very disturbing took place.

We were talking and this lady mentioned having a Goldfish in a 2.5 gallon tank. TINY! DESTRUCTIVE! NEGLECT! ABUSE! During the whole discussion, I was very calm and rational as I pursued to inform her regarding the tank being too small to hold a Goldfish. She had even mentioned having 4 Goldfish in it when she first set it up in July. Three of them die. *duh* I tried to explain to her that the Ammonia killed them due to lack of "good" bacteria. I also informed her about growth stunt when a fish is in a too small tank, the body will literally stop growing while the internal organs continue to grow causing pressure and ultimately crushing itself to death.

Like I said, I calmly informed her of all the negative effects of the current situation. She took it as me having a bad attitude and that I was very hostile. Even though she did not ask me for advice, I felt it was my duty to intervene for the sake of the Goldfish. That Goldfish can't speak for himself, so someone responsible have to do it. She is angry at me for telling her these things since she did not ask me about it. Another person in the chat stepped in to her defense (he was very immature despite being in his 50s...) and started name calling toward me.

I tried to offer a rescue for the Goldfish in exchange for some baby Guppies. She refused to hear of it, all because of her kids picking and wanting the Goldfish. She claimed to not have enough space for a bigger tank. I tried to offer her tips on what she can have in a 2.5 gallon tank. But no, she chose to be stubborn and putting the Goldfish in further risk. She wants the Goldfish to stay small......... I told her that the Goldfish will die soon. It is surviving now, but it is definitely not thriving.

The discussion became heated when she turned the conversation into heated words. I dropped it and decided to move on. Nothing that I can do for the Goldfish except to pray for him. Two days later, the guy that defended her suddenly called me a Troll. Uhhh... ??? I knew what he was talking about and I told him that I was only trying to help her. He went on to say that I do not get to judge people... Umm.... Helping and educating people is not judging. I am used to this and I am aware that many people make mistakes. I have no problem to step in and help.

Both of these people are in their 50s. Their behavior is inexcusable.

So, to answer your question, Penny, it is not my babies suffering any harm. It is the action of this lady that prompted me to be more concern about ongoing fish abuse/neglect. Something needs to be done. Efforts need to be made to encourage people to call in reports and authorities to punish those involved.

Now that she knows everything wrong she has done and still do (even tho she refused to admit and apologize), she is now accountable by law of being found guilty. Just because it is in water and "appear" to be fine does not make it right. Some Goldfish are lucky to live longer when they got the will to live. This lady now know she is not providing the adequate living conditions for the Goldfish and it is the same thing for dogs and cats. I am sure she still don't care and that just show what a cold hearted person she is.

Goldfish need at least 20 gallons for the first fish and then about 10 gallons additionally. They are massive waste producer, so the filtration needs to be at least 10x the tank volume. There must be tons of water turnovers and oxygenation. The water also need more than normal amount of water change weekly.

The tank needs to be established by colonized bacteria inside the filters and all over the tank. These bacteria are needed to convert Ammonia (fish waste and decomposed food) into Nitrite and then Nitrate. Water changes remove the Nitrate. There are plants, such as Water Lettuces, capable of sucking up all the Nitrate. New water must also be conditioned to rid of Chlorine and Chloramine; Prime (Red Bottle) is the best and it neutralize instantly.

There is really a whole bunch for people to actually learn. People must have a license to drive, to go fishing, to hunt, to teach, and many other occupations. I feel they must have a license to own certain pets. Especially a license for aquarium fish. It is unacceptable and disgusting that millions of fish die all the time when people just randomly buy fish to go along with whatever cool tank design on the market. If people can go to jail for neglecting and killing furry animals, then fish should be no different. Big box retailers and product manufacturers are majorly responsible, but nothing is done to hold them accountable. I can just go on and on and on.

Btw, out of the hundreds of time that I had helped people, this was a very first time that someone become very violent toward me. Very surprising! And to have an immature adult in his 50s to jump in to defend her... This is just totally disgusting. They think its funny for these fish to suffer. I think not. This is quite serious to me. I would like to see her sent to jail now that she is obviously guilty of neglecting the fish after all the info I had given to her.

10-20-2010, 08:09 PM
Well. Huh.

All I can say is that some people think I am nutty over my dogs. I guess you are nutty over your fish. It is nice of you to try to intervene for their wellbeing.
I didn't know anything about all that stuff with taking care of them or how much water they need. My mom used to have a lot of tropical fish (something like 30 aquariums) but I was too little to know anything about caring for them.

10-20-2010, 08:23 PM
I can help you. Along with many local hobbyists. We got a fish club here for over 60 years at and you can be an expert in no time. It doesn't matter if you have a small or big aquarium.

10-21-2010, 07:11 AM
I can help you. Along with many local hobbyists. We got a fish club here for over 60 years at and you can be an expert in no time. It doesn't matter if you have a small or big aquarium.

I don't have any fish. Way beyond my willingness to clean...

10-26-2010, 02:06 AM
Why would it be against the law to accidentally kill a goldfish, but perfectly legal to go to a lake, catch a fish, and bring it home and eat it? I just don't get it.