http://newsok.com/22-oklahoma-city-area-stores-raided-in-food-stamp-fraud-investigation/article/3504633

Kudos to the agencies involved that worked to sting these thieves. I hope they throw the book at them but they probably won't. I wish they would go after the welfare cheaters, too. But they probably won't.

Amazing that they found 22 places doing this sort of nonsense. Just goes to show how widespread it is. Estimates are that welfare fraud is 3 - 6% but I suspect that is way too low. And that is not even taking into account people making "legal" lifestyle choices to qualify for food stamps (not working or not married to the father of the kids). Those people are perfectly eligible and not subject to any legal recourse. I personally know many people who deliberately don't marry in order to qualify even though the mother is living with the father of their kids - some for decades. Perfectly legal. Work the system, baby!

Unfortunately, this doesn't scratch the surface. I wish the state would pay bounties to private parties who turned others in for welfare fraud.

I wish we could stop the use of food stamps at convenience stores. I don't like seeing people using their food stamp cards at places like 7-11 or gas stations buying their groceries paying double for a loaf of bread and milk. That is taxpayer money being wasted.

Not sure which is the dumber play ...
(a) idgits thinking they can pull off this type of activity long term, or
(b) collecting their ill gotten gains on camera.

Oh well, if perps were smart, the criminal defense bar would be way smaller than it is

Unfortunately, this doesn't scratch the surface. I wish the state would pay bounties to private parties who turned others in for welfare fraud.

Great idea!

Unfortunately, this doesn't scratch the surface. I wish the state would pay bounties to private parties who turned others in for welfare fraud.

EXCELLENT idea.

I wish we could stop the use of food stamps at convenience stores. I don't like seeing people using their food stamp cards at places like 7-11 or gas stations buying their groceries paying double for a loaf of bread and milk. That is taxpayer money being wasted.

It appears to me that is more a case of the recipient wasting money instead of the state. Just because they're overpaying for something doesn't mean the state is losing or wasting money. The recipients don't get extra from the state to replace money wasted. By your way of thinking the food stamp users would be required to canvas every store in OKC for price before buying any item. I don't argue that it's not stupid but you can't police what amount someone pays. Perhaps a better education program would be more useful. When someone is approved for food stamps they have to watch a short educational film and I don't believe that issue is addressed at all.

http://newsok.com/22-oklahoma-city-area-stores-raided-in- (http://newsok.com/22-oklahoma-city-area-stores-raided-in-food-stamp-fraud-investigation/article/3504633)
food-stamp-fraud-investigation/article/3504633 (http://newsok.com/22-oklahoma-city-area-stores-raided-in-food-stamp-fraud-investigation/article/3504633)

Kudos to the agencies involved that worked to sting these
thieves. I hope they throw the book at them but they probably
won't. I wish they would go after the welfare cheaters, too.
But they probably won't.
It's rampant in medicare, too. Prunette had a great aunt that
was in a nursing home. She checked her aunt's bill every
month and there would be charges, several hundred dollars,
every month of services she wasn't receiving. The response
was always, "it's okay, medicare will pay for it." Prunette would
say, "look, my aunt isn't receiving any of this!" Still the same
response was given. There was a wheel chair, food supplements,
doctor visits, special medical devices, and not a single one of
them were ever dispensed to her and she was only one of many
who were having the same problem but didn't have the bulldog
to hang on and do something about it. Prunette finally got to
the top and the nursing home was finally closed.

Here's a strange, medicare would be contacted and told time
after time about this fraud and their response was always,
"it's too late, medicare has already paid for it." Talk about crap!

I prefer they come up with a clear food classification system and only allow certain types of food to be purchased with food stamps - meat, eggs, milk, grains... yes. Soda pop, candy bars and donuts..... No!

@PennyQuilts
Let's give you a chance to put your money where your mouth is.

OKDHS' Office of Inspector General are the ones who investigated the food stamp fraud, and they'll be more than happy to talk to you about anyone who's given false information about the household composition to receive Temporary Aid to Needy Families (TANF). You can call (405) 522-5880.

@PennyQuilts
Let's give you a chance to put your money where your mouth is.

OKDHS' Office of Inspector General are the ones who investigated the food stamp fraud, and they'll be more than happy to talk to you about anyone who's given false information about the household composition to receive Temporary Aid to Needy Families (TANF). You can call (405) 522-5880.

Don't be a snot. The few times that I have reported things to food stamp fraud and Section 8 housing have been utterly ignored by tired, worn out, overworked government workers who have reacted with irritation because they don't have time for small time crap. Not a word of a lie, buddy.

It appears to me that is more a case of the recipient wasting money instead of the state. Just because they're overpaying for something doesn't mean the state is losing or wasting money. The recipients don't get extra from the state to replace money wasted. By your way of thinking the food stamp users would be required to canvas every store in OKC for price before buying any item. I don't argue that it's not stupid but you can't police what amount someone pays. Perhaps a better education program would be more useful. When someone is approved for food stamps they have to watch a short educational film and I don't believe that issue is addressed at all.

Back in the days when I was a checker at a grocery store, I was amazed at what went into the carts of people buying with foodstamps. It was complete crap -0 no fresh vegetables or fruit. Chips, soft drinks, processed cookies, candy bars. There was a distinct difference compared to most people. I was young and idealistic and I think this was my first hint that not everyone feeds their children decently. All the other checkers just shook their heads over it. I still see it going on, these days, but it is not so obvious as it once was because a lot of people paying cash money are buying the same kind of crap.

It's rampant in medicare, too. Prunette had a great aunt that
was in a nursing home. She checked her aunt's bill every
month and there would be charges, several hundred dollars,
every month of services she wasn't receiving. The response
was always, "it's okay, medicare will pay for it." Prunette would
say, "look, my aunt isn't receiving any of this!" Still the same
response was given. There was a wheel chair, food supplements,
doctor visits, special medical devices, and not a single one of
them were ever dispensed to her and she was only one of many
who were having the same problem but didn't have the bulldog
to hang on and do something about it. Prunette finally got to
the top and the nursing home was finally closed.

Here's a strange, medicare would be contacted and told time
after time about this fraud and their response was always,
"it's too late, medicare has already paid for it." Talk about crap!

It was the same way with my mom when she was dying of cancer. Bless 'em, hospice kept bringing out furniture and offering so many drugs (they would often come in kits and most of them weren't applicable to her). I would tell them she didn't need the stuff but it just kept coming and when she died, I tried to bring them back but they said to throw the stuff away (the furniture except the bed) and the drugs got flushed.

I prefer they come up with a clear food classification system and only allow certain types of food to be purchased with food stamps - meat, eggs, milk, grains... yes. Soda pop, candy bars and donuts..... No!

I think so, too. With obesity, including childhood obesity, so prevalent, buying crap for kids isn't helping them. In fact, it is making them unhealthy. If they are going to pay for food, pay for FOOD.

@PennyQuilts
I do apologize for coming off as I did, and ask your forgiveness.

A little food for thought...

Food stamp fraud has dramatically decreased since Oklahoma went to an electronic benefit card system as opposed to the paper stamps. The state monitors where benefits are being used, which helps us highlight suspicious activity, like a convenience store with $1.8 million in food stamp transactions.

Another thing to note is that cash benefits - TANF, Aid to the Disabled, State Supplemental Payments and such - are also accessed by card, so not everyone you see is using it solely for food stamps. Again, this allows better monitoring for fraud. Oklahoma has been tops in the region for four years straight in administering food stamp benefits, something no other state has done. http://www.okdhs.org/library/news/rel/2010/08/hsc08112010.htm

As far as limiting what things can be purchased, I think there would be widespread support for that in the public and with those who administer the programs. However, since most of these are federal programs, states are required to follow their regulations. I would hope the Feds would re-think this, but it's probably not realistic to expect this with the current administration.

^^ Thanks for the insight.

I prefer they come up with a clear food classification system and only allow certain types of food to be purchased with food stamps - meat, eggs, milk, grains... yes. Soda pop, candy bars and donuts..... No!

That would be nice in theory - but now you have convenience and grocery clerks doubling as enforcement police. It's not alcohol and/or cigs that are illegal by age. What - are you going to fine a grocery clerk or selling unauthorized goods to a food stamp recipient?

Not to mention it would slow up the lines even more for us waitin behind them while they pick thru the items

That would be nice in theory - but now you have convenience and grocery clerks doubling as enforcement police. It's not alcohol and/or cigs that are illegal by age. What - are you going to fine a grocery clerk or selling unauthorized goods to a food stamp recipient?

Fresh, canned or frozen fruit; fresh, canned or frozen meat/seafood;, fresh, canned or frozen vegetables; dairy; basic bread (no twinkies or cookies); rice, beans. That really isn't that hard. If they can recognize grocery items from drug items (as we used to do when I was a checker, and rung them up, accordingly), I am not sure why it would hard for a clerk to recognize basic, unprocessed food as opposed to cheetoes. It is a little like porn - we all know crappy, processed food when we see it (chips, cookies, candy bars, canned salsa).

Not everything comes down to prosecuting a clerk. They could treat it exactly the same way they do selling prohibited items, right now. It is just a question of changing the rules. No one is worrying that a clerk is going to be prosecuted for accidently selling a box of spark plugs and this is really no different. If they make the permitted list SHORT, I imagine the clerks wouldn't have much of a problem. And the SHORT list is better for the recipients and kids, anyway. Hell, they could use the WIC guidelines.

If they can tell us we can't smoke in public and talk about prohibiting restaurants from using certain unhealthy food, I don't see why we would even consider subsidizing processed, high fat, empty calorie food for children. That is utterly insane on its face. To say that it is too hard to train clerks to see the difference so we should just give kids expensive garbage that is bad for them and eats up their grocery money makes no sense. Changing the food stamp rules is a quick, sensible way to extend a food stamp budget and make sure the kids get what it was intended to be. It might not be perfect but it couldn't help but be better than what they use food stamps for, now. And if you think I am making something up, I challenge you to go to a large grocery store and watch what food stamp people buy. And if the paying customers are buying junk, too, so what? That is their money. If my kids don't get cheetoes because it is expensive and bad for them, why do the welfare kids get it on a regular basis? And yes, they should educate welfare recipients about basic good nutrition and give them some basic recipes. If they aren't already, they should do that, regardless.

This post isn't about fraud, this is about changing the rules to provide better care for the kids.

@PennyQuilts
I do apologize for coming off as I did, and ask your forgiveness.

Oh, no problem. Thanks.

I prefer they come up with a clear food classification system and
only allow certain types of food to be purchased with food stamps
- meat, eggs, milk, grains... yes. Soda pop, candy bars and
donuts... No!
Commodities is the was to go. No food stamps or welfare credit
card. They can go to the place once a week and get their food.

In another lifetime, or so it seems now, we worked as houseparents in a temporary youth shelter.
Commodities were a way of life. Never understood the aversion myself. Canned pork and some
fixins' made for sloppy joes, amongst other meals. And, let's face it, except for the time spent on it,
rice is pretty much rice until you dress it up for a party. Fortunately, it cleans up well.

On a soft note... Are you willing to transport everyone to a store that meets your standards? 7-11 is not any higher than shopping at Homeland. As someone who works in ministry you cannot judge these circumstances. Everybodys story is different. What needs to be investigated are the food stamp recipients that have to have their cards replaced monthly. They very likely are the ones who are selling food stamps for cash ; drugs ect....

On a soft note... Are you willing to transport everyone to a store
that meets your standards?
That's cute.

No, they get to be responsible for themselves whether they
like it or not.

That would be nice in theory - but now you have convenience and grocery clerks doubling as enforcement police. It's not alcohol and/or cigs that are illegal by age. What - are you going to fine a grocery clerk or selling unauthorized goods to a food stamp recipient?

Actually the computers controlling the check out process with scanners already know what can and can't be paid for with the cards. The checker doesn't have to sort out anything. I'm not sure that is the case at the convenience stores which aren't quite as automated with scanners.

Another thing to note is that cash benefits - TANF, Aid to the Disabled, State Supplemental Payments and such - are also accessed by card, so not everyone you see is using it solely for food stamps.

While there is a state card for other assistance (even forced child support payments, etc. that are not state 'handouts'), the SNAP card is pretty recognizable and is only a 'food stamp' card from my experience. I've been approached and seen many people sell or offer to sell their card benefits around SE 44 and Shields area.

That would be nice in theory - but now you have convenience and grocery clerks doubling as enforcement police. It's not alcohol and/or cigs that are illegal by age. What - are you going to fine a grocery clerk or selling unauthorized goods to a food stamp recipient?

I would think it would be possible to tie the approved items to the UPC code - it works for validating coupons and matching them to purchased items, why not match it to approved food stuffs?

I would think it would be possible to tie the approved items to the UPC code - it works for validating coupons and matching them to purchased items, why not match it to approved food stuffs?

Brian, that's exactly what I said in my last post. That's already how it works.

Brian, that's exactly what I said in my last post. That's already how it works.

Ah, must have been typing my rant as you posted your reply.

...I've been approached and seen many people sell or offer to sell their card benefits around SE 44 and Shields area.

There was often an interesting crowd near the 44th intersection. Nice employees at the 7/11, CVS and MickyD stores, but yeah, some of the hanger rounds in the lots were
energetic in their desire to peddle their various wares.

PQ...Several years back I turned a couple in for Welfare Fraud. Here is the Reader's Digest version. Both were working. They have 3 elementary school aged children. She finds out she's pregnant. Considers abortion then decides to actively pursue putting the unborn child up for adoption. The father of the baby says no! She is placed on bedrest the last 2 months of pregnancy while still collecting a full paycheck from work. Goes on WIC. Prior to the baby being born she splits with the "significant other." Six weeks after the baby is born she learns that her employer no longer needs her services. She files complaint after complaint but loses. She is placed on TANF and Food Stamps. She gets on Section 8. She is now collecting 2 Child Support checks each month ($750.00) from the first hubby and the father of the newest baby. First hubby moves into a house owned by his ex-mother-in-law. He is working at a Fortune 500 Business in OKC as an IT. All the school-aged children are placed in the Free Meal program at school. All the children are on Medicaid, despite the fact that her hubby "could" provide insurance through work, and the father of the newborn has medical insurance covering his Son. After several months go by the mother gets assistance from the state to go to school. She applies for and gets the Pell Grants. She goes to school...drops out, goes to school again and drops out. She does this several times for 2 - 3 years. She takes the youngest child to Daycare, which the State pays for. Then hubby files bankruptcy and he (still living in his ex mom-in-law's house), purchases a $130,000 home for his now ex-wife to move into. They apply to the OKC Housing Authority to put that house on Section 8...the one that she and her 4 children are living in that her ex-husband bought. I would love to see their Tax Returns for the last 10 years!!!! Oh, she just started working again...after staying at home for nearly 10 years.

Jeeze...

Commodities is the was to go. No food stamps or welfare credit
card. They can go to the place once a week and get their food.lol, Who wants to mess with corn meal and powdered milk?

lol, Who wants to mess with corn meal and powdered milk?

Don't be lazy Bunty. One can do a lot with some meal, some beans a bit of powder and some butter, and without much effort.

YUM, cornbread and beans.

YUM, cornbread and beans.

And don't forget the butter to go on both of them, Bunty. LOL

I suspect...if one had nothing else to eat...corn bread and beans might taste pretty damn good...

Yeah, but with the liberals its not about "nothing else to eat", its about "eating as 'well' as those who actually have jobs." Doesn't make sense to me. Give the essentials and explain its a help up during a bad time, not a way to be a burden on those who can and do work.

Don't be lazy Bunty. One can do a lot with some meal, some beans a bit of powder and some butter, and without much effort.

How many of us lived on beans and rice to get us through the college years. Don't they call those the "salad years?" Thing is, this is is not that uncommon for plenty of us. Recall when getting a coke was a luxury? Food stamps ought to keep people fed - not keep them up with the Jones.

The total reality about commodities is this. They aren't fed
cornmeal. Only those who are clueless or refuse reality think
this is what commodities are. The truth is that they get really
good food for the week. Beef, cheese, canned vegetables,
awesome peanut butter and staples. Yeah, they get powdered
milk, but this is about nutrition NOT twinkies and soda pop.

All they have to do is pick it up, and they can use the ingenuity
they used to get on the democrat voter program to get someone
to get the food.

No junk food was handed out. They were even given recipes
to prepare proper meals. Why the left is opposed to dong what's
right is beyond comprehension.

Yeah, but with the liberals its not about "nothing else to eat", its about "eating as 'well' as those who actually have jobs." Doesn't make sense to me. Give the essentials and explain its a help up during a bad time, not a way to be a burden on those who can and do work.

Can you let us know what you are doing w/o cause of this burden?

Can you let us know what you are doing w/o cause of this burden?

You lost me Easy180.

You lost me Easy180.

You said they were a burden on you so just wondering what you were doing without cause of it

I find that an odd question. What would your expectation of me be?

No biggie bates...guessing they aren't much of a burden on you then

Collectively they are a great burden on all of us. A burden a community should be willing to bear under certain circumstances for a certain amount of time. However, in my experience it is an unnecessary burden most of the time.

YUM, cornbread and beans.

My favorite food is beans and cornbread. I love beans and cornbread 'cause I'm just that country boy, you know, havin' that beans and cornbread, 'cause there ain't nothin' wrong with beans and cornbread. It fills you up, you know, so I just love them beans and cornbread!

Collectively they are a great burden on all of us. A burden a community should be willing to bear under certain circumstances for a certain amount of time. However, in my experience it is an unnecessary burden most of the time.

I mainly wish the feds would get out of the business and leave it to the states. Local folks have a much better handle on the situation and are generally required to stay in their budget.

Interesting topic! When the story hit the DOK, I noticed the store owners/workers names' were mentioned, but none of the card-carrying customer. Has anyone heard if these perps will have to answer to the fraud they knowingly took part in?

Someone mentioned how a good portion of these recipients fill there baskets with Ho-Ho's & Ding Dongs....makes me wonder if it was their hard-earned money they were spending, would that shopping cart contain different items? If they really had to foot the dental bill, would they eat all that junk???? Something tells me if that were the case, they would take a more practical approach.

And for the record, when I smell a rat, I do call the exterminator...... ;-)

Someone mentioned how a good portion of these recipients fill
there baskets with Ho-Ho's & Ding Dongs... makes me wonder if
it was their hard-earned money they were spending...
First of all, how does a welfare recipient make hard-earned money?
That's why they're supposed to be on the democrat vote program.

I've seen it with my own eyes, and I know most everyone that
goes to a store has seen it, too, or are in denial. The kids will
be in line holding NOTHING of nutritional value, and it won't be
a little self indulging snack. It's soda pop, chips, candy bars
and anything else they can carry to the check out. To tell
the truth, I can't remember the last time I saw someone with
a cart of groceries that was of nutritional value. THAT is a
rarity.

My favorite food is beans and cornbread. I love beans and cornbread 'cause I'm just that country boy, you know, havin' that beans and cornbread, 'cause there ain't nothin' wrong with beans and cornbread. It fills you up, you know, so I just love them beans and cornbread!

And don't forget to send the kids to the supermarket to shoplift a purple onion to chop and throw atop the pile...

Hey Prunepicker kinda makes it even more interesting that the powers-to-be name it SNAP - supplemental NUTRITION assistance program. LOL

Hey Prunepicker kinda makes it even more interesting that the
powers-to-be name it SNAP - supplemental NUTRITION assistance
program. LOL

That's good!

How about TAP? Twinkies and Pop.

:yourock: LOL

(My Disclaimer-Completely Personal Opinion - not intended to be a representation of any other individual)

<RANT>

OKDHS needs to shut its doors or a complete overhaul of the system needs to be done. I have personally seen this fraud happen and this isn't the only area it happens involving DHS's "systems". This isn't just a monetary business transaction between those on welfare and quick stores. Most of this happens between people that they know... I've heard "They give me so much I can't use it all". Also, "I got an extra $100 a month in food stamps as soon as Obama took office". Not that this is completely related or coincidental. Multiple divisions of DHS are completely faulty.

I am glad some one wants to do good for our society, but their actions are completely counter productive in most cases. Most of the time their phone system doesn't even work. It should say "Press this key and the phone system might or might not hang up on you". This is not user error. It's lack of capability to get a job done that is supposedly to be provided to you by law. I'm glad you can write tax payer checks, but not make sure your phone system works.

Government needs to stick to the basics. Our society is asking for checks that our government clearly can't cash without more resources. I am not blaming DHS by all means. It's across the board. DHS is just the big target because their failures are so easily noticed because they're involved in everything. There are to many services that our society expects and exploits in our government. What do we do when we can't meet our marks in providing law entitled services? Ask for more help and more tax dollars. Cost is being driven up by absolute over use of a system that was created to help people WHO NEED IT... to bad that doesn't filter out people who know how to exploit it. Everyone has a hand out these days.

Try dealing with child support services from a fathers stand point. I hardly blame some of these guys for running. DHS will stomp on your face and rub it in the dirt while they grab your wallet (metaphorically speaking) if you even try to do what's right. DHS also is making profit off of child support. Can you believe it? 10 percent on back child support. They won't mention that to you though. I'd say that's a pretty nice investment these days when every where else is in the negative returns. Is their stock public? Technically speaking, these fathers are providing a pretty hefty return in an economic down turn for DHS. Now, I understand not every situation is the same. But, fathers rights are not equitable in the least. Since our past tells us that fathers have ran in some cases, then lets over compensate and oppress fathers who care and want to be their child's father. Let's do it legally. I'm being fesicious at this point. But there is a strong truth in this. I am a record in this system. A database record that says <name> <case> and how much I'm paying. I thank god I can pay it. We're becoming a number.

Some life experiences can't be learned in a book. A boy burned his hand on the stove, can you tell me what that feels like? I sure can't. I can tell you it most likely hurt. I can read about it, but nothing will give you the experience to know the pain that boy felt. My point being... these people are the subject matter experts. I am a subject matter expert in the pain I feel about the DHS system from a fathers stand point. I can say DHS is doing damage.. a lot of it.

Some one needs to take a stand and stop leaving the game with the ball because it's yours. Be accountable for what you do. Take pride in what you do. Do the right thing. Have integrity. When did morality leave society to a book? Don't forget about humanity. Keep it simple but not simpler.



<RANT></EXIT>

(My Disclaimer-Completely Personal Opinion - not intended to be a representation of any other individual)

<RANT>

OKDHS needs to shut its doors or a complete overhaul of the system needs to be done. I have personally seen this fraud happen and this isn't the only area it happens involving DHS's "systems". This isn't just a monetary business transaction between those on welfare and quick stores. Most of this happens between people that they know... I've heard "They give me so much I can't use it all". Also, "I got an extra $100 a month in food stamps as soon as Obama took office". Not that this is completely related or coincidental. Multiple divisions of DHS are completely faulty.

I am glad some one wants to do good for our society, but their actions are completely counter productive in most cases. Most of the time their phone system doesn't even work. It should say "Press this key and the phone system might or might not hang up on you". This is not user error. It's lack of capability to get a job done that is supposedly to be provided to you by law. I'm glad you can write tax payer checks, but not make sure your phone system works.

Government needs to stick to the basics. Our society is asking for checks that our government clearly can't cash without more resources. I am not blaming DHS by all means. It's across the board. DHS is just the big target because their failures are so easily noticed because they're involved in everything. There are to many services that our society expects and exploits in our government. What do we do when we can't meet our marks in providing law entitled services? Ask for more help and more tax dollars. Cost is being driven up by absolute over use of a system that was created to help people WHO NEED IT... to bad that doesn't filter out people who know how to exploit it. Everyone has a hand out these days.

Try dealing with child support services from a fathers stand point. I hardly blame some of these guys for running. DHS will stomp on your face and rub it in the dirt while they grab your wallet (metaphorically speaking) if you even try to do what's right. DHS also is making profit off of child support. Can you believe it? 10 percent on back child support. They won't mention that to you though. I'd say that's a pretty nice investment these days when every where else is in the negative returns. Is their stock public? Technically speaking, these fathers are providing a pretty hefty return in an economic down turn for DHS. Now, I understand not every situation is the same. But, fathers rights are not equitable in the least. Since our past tells us that fathers have ran in some cases, then lets over compensate and oppress fathers who care and want to be their child's father. Let's do it legally. I'm being fesicious at this point. But there is a strong truth in this. I am a record in this system. A database record that says <name> <case> and how much I'm paying. I thank god I can pay it. We're becoming a number.

Some life experiences can't be learned in a book. A boy burned his hand on the stove, can you tell me what that feels like? I sure can't. I can tell you it most likely hurt. I can read about it, but nothing will give you the experience to know the pain that boy felt. My point being... these people are the subject matter experts. I am a subject matter expert in the pain I feel about the DHS system from a fathers stand point. I can say DHS is doing damage.. a lot of it.

Some one needs to take a stand and stop leaving the game with the ball because it's yours. Be accountable for what you do. Take pride in what you do. Do the right thing. Have integrity. When did morality leave society to a book? Don't forget about humanity. Keep it simple but not simpler.



<RANT></EXIT>

That certainly was a rant and I'm glad you got it off your chest but it was so rambling I could hardly tell what you were ranting about. You started of by mentioning something about fraud you had seen and didn't give a clue about what that fraud was. I know some people who receive food stamps and not one of them got an increase when Obama took office. There is no way that could affect anything about the amount someone received.

jnorris, I'm an attorney and I've had lots of dealings with DHS. Actually, if you request a hearing, they'll bend over backwards to accommodate you on payments. And the 10% is interest, not a fee, and it goes to the custodial parent unless it's on public money which went to TANF or something like that.

That said, I think there are some serious problems with the current system. For one thing, the difference between 120 days and 121 days for shared parenting is often used to deprive noncustodial parents of additional time. The shared parenting schedule in that range should be more gradual.

Also, household income should be used to calculate income, not the individual's income. I've had too many cases where one party stayed at home and did nothing, but had a rich spouse, yet the NCP still got hammered. I'm not sure that's fair either.

But no system is going to be perfect, and I think it's gotten a lot better over the years. Keep up with those payments though.

jnorris, I'm an attorney and I've had lots of dealings with DHS. Actually, if you request a hearing, they'll bend over backwards to accommodate you on payments. And the 10% is interest, not a fee, and it goes to the custodial parent unless it's on public money which went to TANF or something like that.

That said, I think there are some serious problems with the current system. For one thing, the difference between 120 days and 121 days for shared parenting is often used to deprive noncustodial parents of additional time. The shared parenting schedule in that range should be more gradual.

Also, household income should be used to calculate income, not the individual's income. I've had too many cases where one party stayed at home and did nothing, but had a rich spouse, yet the NCP still got hammered. I'm not sure that's fair either.

But no system is going to be perfect, and I think it's gotten a lot better over the years. Keep up with those payments though.

I really should have read my post before submitting. It wasn't quite clear. It is in fact 10 percent interest.

"Also, household income should be used to calculate income, not the individual's income. I've had too many cases where one party stayed at home and did nothing, but had a rich spouse, yet the NCP still got hammered. I'm not sure that's fair either."

You must have looked me up? The system is far to simple to exploit or not simple enough. To top the situation off above, how about rich inheritance? Income has no reflection on the total value someone can provide. It just clips the top. The stability in Quality of Life for a child becomes ever so distant between homes in this scenario. Mom never hesitates to bleed you as much as possible just because she can, not because she or the child needs it. I'm sure the parental roles could be reversed which is why rights for the child and parents should be natively equitable. How about Constitutional? Equal Rights Amendment?

I think I've diverted this topic a bit to much, so I'll touch back on the welfare fraud.

It's to easy to get food stamps and make trades. "I'll pick you up X,Y, and Z for you in trade for A, B of lesser value". This is the scenario I've seen over and over. You can't control food stamps. You can watch what they buy with food stamps, but you can't watch them eat it or what they trade for it. It's not a feasible solution. In the scenario I've seen... you get women or men/women conspiring separated parents scenarios while having babies to collect checks. It's an enabler. Then we end up spending more tax dollars just trying to audit for the people that are in fact cheating the system.

Thanks for your reply.

Well, those other factors can enter into it.

Check out 43 O.S. section 118: "A. There shall be a rebuttable presumption in any judicial or administrative proceeding for the award of child support, that the amount of the award which would result from the application of the following guidelines is the correct amount of child support to be awarded."

That gave rise to some of th language in the 2009 modification. Check out 43 O.S. section 118H. Remember, child support awards are equitable (think "fair" Solomon splitting the baby stuff) in nature. Whereas the guidelines are presumed, the statutes outline specific instances where they can be set aside. So who knows? You might have a shot at that.