Very large, positive article that headlines Section B.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-10-12-oklahoma12_CV_N.htm

Another great PR piece on OKC.

Many know I moved to Southern California in 1990, after spending my first 30 years in Oklahoma. I was sad to go but the economy was horrible and there was almost zero opportunity in OKC.

I have started to think about moving back myself. The biggest deterrent is the brutal, long summers... I just don't think I could handle that.

good pub for OK

I love the OK summers - I wish it was 105 and humid everyday - I just don't like the electric and water bills that go with them

Mods, please delete my duplicate thread. Thanks.

Another great PR piece on OKC.

Many know I moved to Southern California in 1990, after spending my first 30 years in Oklahoma. I was sad to go but the economy was horrible and there was almost zero opportunity in OKC.

I have started to think about moving back myself. The biggest deterrent is the brutal, long summers... I just don't think I could handle that.And then add to that the long cold awful winters when you got to live with the nuisance of putting on and taking off a coat up to several times a day.

Am I the only one that thinks this (Californians moving to Oklahoma) could be a bad thing?

In-migration a bad thing? Especially since these migrants are likely to be on the educated and affluent side? (if the people profiled in the article are somewhat representative). I don't understand.

In-migration a bad thing? Especially since these migrants are likely to be on the educated and affluent side? (if the people profiled in the article are somewhat representative). I don't understand.

They might be evil liberals.

LOL. I wonder if that's the context. I consider myself center right, but if OKC can't handle and embrace a few thousand liberals, it doesn't deserve to be a "big league" city. Or maybe some are worried the next GOP presidential candidate will carry Oklahoma by 64% instead of 65%. Or maybe the concern is something nebulous like "traffic." OKC should (and it sounds from the article like they are) be embracing of these newcomers. I think this article is nothing but a positive.

LOL. I wonder if that's the context. I consider myself center right, but if OKC can't handle and embrace a few thousand liberals, it doesn't deserve to be a "big league" city. Or maybe some are worried the next GOP presidential candidate will carry Oklahoma by 64% instead of 65%. Or maybe the concern is something nebulous like "traffic." OKC should (and it sounds from the article like they are) be embracing of these newcomers. I think this article is nothing but a positive.

agree 100%

Am I the only one that thinks this (Californians moving to Oklahoma) could be a bad thing?

Most came from Oklahoma anyway...this is just a sort-of 'Grapes of Wrath II' (with better cars)...generally speaking...I am not sure one can really be an Okie if one has not spent at least an obligatory 5 years in California...nice weather there, though...

LOL. I wonder if that's the context. I consider myself center right, but if OKC can't handle and embrace a few thousand liberals, it doesn't deserve to be a "big league" city. Or maybe some are worried the next GOP presidential candidate will carry Oklahoma by 64% instead of 65%. Or maybe the concern is something nebulous like "traffic." OKC should (and it sounds from the article like they are) be embracing of these newcomers. I think this article is nothing but a positive.

Do I have to move then? Because I'm a Oklahoma born and bread liberal living in OKC. I hope everyone is okay with me being here.

Kilgore Trout, on the contrary, I'm happy for OKC that you stayed and are obviously supportive of, and contributing to the city. Although I'm (slightly) to the right, I have found that many of my favorite places in this country lean decidedly to the left. OKC needs all the diversity of thought that it can possibly find.

I am in LA this week....actually preparing to move part of a company to OKC and to start another subsidiary in OKC. Owners are from LA and Chicago. It was unanamous to move the companies to OKC. Lots of momentum, escpecially coming from southern Cal. It is ripe to move companies from Cal to OK, and especially from LA area to OKC. These news reports are just excellent in helping. Believe me, they get read here in LA.

Put me in the liberal column, too. Born here in 1943. And what a neat report, Rover!

Am I the only one that thinks this (Californians moving to Oklahoma) could be a bad thing?
Quite a few Austinites think that way about the ones that have moved here.

Very large, positive article that headlines Section B.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-10-12-oklahoma12_CV_N.htm

More of an article on OKC. Except, of course, the non-sequitur quote from Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett and the bizarro Oklahoma statistics that were reported. Did anyone else find it weird the entire article was about OKC and then suddenly they quote statewide livability stats and suggest it's a problem for OKC? Yes, we know life in Holdenville does not compare favorably to life in Greenwich, CT or Montpelier, VT!

Liberal born and raised in OKC as well. I'm not really sure if I'm happy about the Californians moving here either. I really don't want OKC's vibe destroyed by traffic-crazy, rude, and egotistic people. Bring the diversity and affluence on, leave the California attitude and financial thinking in the Golden State please.

QUICK! BUILD A MOAT!! FILLED WITH GATORS AND SHARKS!

They ruined their state, we don't need them ruining ours.

Quite a few Austinites think that way about the ones that have moved here.

Californian's moving to Austin turned that city from a sleepy college town to a high-tech mecca. Just think of what they could do in Oklahoma...

good pub for OK

I love the OK summers - I wish it was 105 and humid everyday - I just don't like the electric and water bills that go with them

No way . . . 105 and humid everyday would suck. It's a heckuva lot easier for me to stay warmer in the fall/winter than stay cooler in the summer.

Yes, we definitely need to build a moat to keep out all of those rude, egotistical people in Kalifornia, since the entire state is like that. I mean, we don't them changing our culture, which is completely free of people like that, right? Oh, and their awful political views...pretty soon Oklahoma will only be going 60% GOP in the presidential election....

Sweet jesus, people from another state want to move here, set up shop, bring their businesses and badly needed jobs and tax revenue to a state that for the majority of its exisitence has suffered net outmigration and people still find a reason to complain?

oh yee think short term adaniel

Damn Californian's bringing their earthquakes too!

/sarcasm

Over the years, there have been several cities that have greatly benefitted/grown due to the influx of Californians: Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, Las Vegas, Denver and Austin being chief among them.

I said several years ago that OKC may become the next quasi-boom town... All those other cities have become pretty crowded and expensive themselves.

Am I the only one that thinks this (Californians moving to Oklahoma) could be a bad thing?

We as a former Californian I have to say I am glad to call the OKC metro home.

California is a mixed bag. Depends an where you are. You could not pay me enough
to live in Los Angeles. I was an intern for MCA Records back in the day and had to go
there once a week from San Diego and dreaded it.

The cities differ as do the people. I was back home on vacation a couple of years
ago and had a shopkeeper apologize because the weather was cloudy and cold.

The closer you get to LA or San Francisco you get, the more uptight people become.


Chris
http://radiookc.com

These news reports are just excellent in helping. Believe me, they get read here in LA. Right you are! One of my Facebook friends in L.A. just posted the article on her wall.

More of an article on OKC. Except, of course, the non-sequitur quote from Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett and the bizarro Oklahoma statistics that were reported. Did anyone else find it weird the entire article was about OKC and then suddenly they quote statewide livability stats and suggest it's a problem for OKC? Yes, we know life in Holdenville does not compare favorably to life in Greenwich, CT or Montpelier, VT!

Holdenville may not directly compare, but Ponca City, Bartlesville, Stillwater, Enid, and others have a lot going for them.

Many of the californians leaving are pro business, fiscal conservatives and social moderates or left leaning on social issues, which is what we need in this state IMO.

Many of the californians leaving are pro business, fiscal conservatives and social moderates or left leaning on social issues, which is what we need in this state IMO.

I had the same thought that they would be more fiscally conservative and pro business. I think they would still be in for a culture shock but many would end up really liking it.

Over the years, there have been several cities that have greatly benefitted/grown due to the influx of Californians: Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, Las Vegas, Denver and Austin being chief among them.

I said several years ago that OKC may become the next quasi-boom town... All those other cities have become pretty crowded and expensive themselves.

Those of us who left those types of areas to go or return to OKC dread that possibility. NOTHING is worth that. Hopefully, they will find a happy medium.

Damn Californian's bringing their earthquakes too!

/sarcasm

Ha!

Californian's moving to Austin turned that city from a sleepy college town to a high-tech mecca. Just think of what they could do in Oklahoma...

We don't want the infrastructure that Austin has. And I don't think the Californians did it on their own. Unless you came from Texas, you don't KNOW entrepreneurship.
Did I spell that right?

call me non progressive but im actually starting to get annoyed with all this media attention. im glad that we have a NBA team, our local economy is doing well, and outside ignorant people are finally realizing that this isnt some dusty cowtown like they thought....

but keep the people where they are at. media exploits booms and bust and i dont want them to keep on hyping us up till we become one of the 'go to' cities for idiots with poor work ethics (and ethics) looking for jobs or to turn okc into a place to flip houses like they did in the places they are now leaving.

it seems like the rest of the country got extremely caught up in making quick money and getting something for nothing and i dont want THEM to ruin what we worked for.

We have a lot of people who have come to OKC/Oklahoma who didn't think they would like it but fell in love - and nearly all the ones who fell in love mention the lack of traffic. Until you've dealt with that, you JUST DON'T KNOW. There is no way you could know what it is like. I think because of that, the problem is minimized. They think "traffic" means I44 at rush hour. Oh no, no, no. That is not traffic. You have no idea what it is like to be trapped in your home because it is just too crazy to venture out on the streets and have to add in an extra hour or two, daily, on your commute "just in case" there is a traffic tie up. So you end up sitting in the office an hour before you shift but you have no choice because if you'd waited, chances are, you'd have been an hour late. And going home to catch your kid's soccer practice after school? Forgetabout it. You can't coach, you can't do girl scouts, you can't do cub scouts - because you just don't know when you will actually be able to get home. At least not on a regular basis. Picking up your child from daycare? Pencil me in sometime between 5 and 7, depending on traffic...

I read all the comments to that article..... Whew... what a night..

Californian's moving to Austin turned that city from a sleepy college town to a high-tech mecca. Just think of what they could do in Oklahoma...
Yeah, that's what a bunch of them dislike...they wanted Austin to stay the sleepy, hippie little college town that it was when they came here in 1970.


Over the years, there have been several cities that have greatly benefitted/grown due to the influx of Californians: Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, Las Vegas, Denver and Austin being chief among them.

I said several years ago that OKC may become the next quasi-boom town... All those other cities have become pretty crowded and expensive themselves.
Austin can be affordable or as expensive as you want it to be. Houses in our neighborhood 4-5 miles south of downtown sell for around 100-150K. The property taxes here are the big difference between Austin and OKC. Ours are 5x higher than my sisters house in NWOKC which is valued about the same as ours here in South Austin.

Many of the californians leaving are pro business, fiscal conservatives and social moderates or left leaning on social issues, which is what we need in this state IMO.But I bet the majority of Californians would rather move to Colorado or Utah or other such states in order to not miss the mountains.

Austin can be affordable or as expensive as you want it to be. Houses in our neighborhood 4-5 miles south of downtown sell for around 100-150K. The property taxes here are the big difference between Austin and OKC. Ours are 5x higher than my sisters house in NWOKC which is valued about the same as ours here in South Austin.

How do Texans put up with such high property taxes other than landlords passing them off to their tenants? State sales taxes are also higher than in Oklahoma. Right?

How do Texans put up with such high property taxes other than landlords passing them off to their tenants? State sales taxes are also higher than in Oklahoma. Right?

Probably because there's no state income tax. But homeowners definitely suffer the burden of property taxes versus renters. Texas has a state sales tax rate of 6.25% and city/counties have the option to tax up to an additional 2% making the max sales tax rate 8.25%. I've never seen a city in Texas where the tax wasn't 8.25%. Oklahoma has a state sales tax rate of 4.5% and the rest can either be county or city sales tax. Edmond has the lowest sales tax rate in the metro.

Then Oklahoma should abolish the state income tax and make up for it by restoring enough of those tax exemptions and rebates worth 5.5 billion.

The sales tax rate for the City of Austin is 8.25%, most of the suburbs are the same or real close. Yes, property taxes make up for the lack of income tax, there are also a ton of other fees here for everything in lieu of income taxes. As far as renters/owners, renters pay the taxes, it is just lumped into the rent which is significantly higher than what I was used to in OKC. Our house payment is quite a bit lower than rents (15 year mortgage, a little over 50% equity to market value) but we also pay our own property taxes which averages just under $300 a month which would put our payment around the range of most rentals homes in our area. Home owners insurance is also significantly higher, car insurance is marginally higher.

All governments get "their money", they just use different methods and even though Texas has no state income tax the tax burdens are almost always pretty similar. If they ever pass a state income tax here they will never reduce the rest of the burden to the same level, so it would really just be on top of the already existing tax burden.

Funny real-life story about this article...


My girlfriend is an attorney that works for a very accomplished federal district judge here in Los Angeles. Just today, the two of them were talking about the high cost of living in Southern California and he volunteered: "I think I'm going to move to Oklahoma City. I just read an article about Californians moving there in droves and it sounds like a great place with a very low cost of living and almost zero traffic."

He had no idea that I (being her significant other) am from Oklahoma... It was just the overwhelming positive impression he has of the place based largely on this one article.


It also goes to show that almost anyone with any intelligence realizes there are no more "cow towns" in the U.S. After seeing the rise of places like Portland and Austin and Charlotte, people now know that some of these previously smaller cities can some become where it's at, not only in terms of jobs but also in sophistication and other amenities.

This article is really great exposure for the State of Oklahoma, and Oklahoma has been basking in a lot of good news from many national publications. I believe that Oklahoma will attract alot of California residents especially "retired", moderate conservatives. My only concern is that Oklahoma is not attracting major white collar jobs for young, upward mobile and educated individuals. Oklahoma and California both are loosing out to industry because companies are moving to Texas in rapid succession. Here are a few examples below.

http://www.newsok.com/grape-ranch-winery-leaving-okemah/article/3504568?custom_click=pod_headline_business

http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2010/10/11/daily33.html

http://journalrecord.com/2010/10/13/learning-from-texas/

Probably because there's no state income tax. But homeowners definitely suffer the burden of property taxes versus renters. Texas has a state sales tax rate of 6.25% and city/counties have the option to tax up to an additional 2% making the max sales tax rate 8.25%. I've never seen a city in Texas where the tax wasn't 8.25%. Oklahoma has a state sales tax rate of 4.5% and the rest can either be county or city sales tax. Edmond has the lowest sales tax rate in the metro.

I'll add to that. The one thing I have learned to appreciate about income taxes... they don't suddenly increase drastically because your neighbor got a huge pay increase with a promotion. What I mean to say is... when a neighbor here in Texas does something to their house which increases their property value, I suddenly find myself taking a day off to protest my property tax increase.

Heck, at least the top tax bracket in Oklahoma got lowered from 7% to 5.5%. Texas may not tax income, but you get spanked in property taxes. Texas may not tax some grocery items, and I emphasize some, but you pay in the way of a sales tax on vehicles (6.25% of the sales price, due up front), lofty sewage fees and the like.

http://www.koco.com/money/25395430/detail.html

Oklahoma Falls In Forbes Ranking (KOCO, 10/14/10)


OKLAHOMA CITY -- Oklahoma has dropped in Forbes magazine's latest ranking of states with the most business-friendly practices.

The state ranked 33rd according to the recent survey, which is down from 20th in the last report. Utah finished at the top of the new rankings.

Forbes said it used employment regulation data and quality-of-life rankings to come up with the list.

But I thought our quality of life was going up not down?

http://www.koco.com/money/25395430/detail.html

Oklahoma Falls In Forbes Ranking (KOCO, 10/14/10)


But I thought our quality of life was going up not down?

So take it as a sign we need a state wide version of a MAPS project.

As far as quality of life is concerned, life is how you make it. Maybe Oklahomans need to get inspired or dream a little bigger to make their own lives better.

The sales tax rate for the City of Austin is 8.25%, most of the suburbs are the same or real close. Yes, property taxes make up for the lack of income tax, there are also a ton of other fees here for everything in lieu of income taxes. As far as renters/owners, renters pay the taxes, it is just lumped into the rent which is significantly higher than what I was used to in OKC. Our house payment is quite a bit lower than rents (15 year mortgage, a little over 50% equity to market value) but we also pay our own property taxes which averages just under $300 a month which would put our payment around the range of most rentals homes in our area. Home owners insurance is also significantly higher, car insurance is marginally higher.

All governments get "their money", they just use different methods and even though Texas has no state income tax the tax burdens are almost always pretty similar. If they ever pass a state income tax here they will never reduce the rest of the burden to the same level, so it would really just be on top of the already existing tax burden.

I was looking into that when I almost was relocated from OKC to Austin. Finding something affordable in a good neighborhood somewhat close to downtown was a huge challenge. I didn't end up going there (went to a job in Tulsa instead) but if I did I probably would've been paying a lot. I wasn't looking for a huge house either, something around 1,200 SF with 2 bedrooms/2 baths. Everything I found was both extremely expensive (not even counting the property taxes I would be paying on top of the mortgage) and not even new or updated. Those properties were well out of my price range, as well as the newer condos that have gone up around downtown. I didn't want to live in a far-flung suburb but thought I would look in some of areas west of Austin by the lakes. That search ended just as quickly.

http://www.koco.com/money/25395430/detail.html

Oklahoma Falls In Forbes Ranking (KOCO, 10/14/10)


But I thought our quality of life was going up not down?

As you can clearly see by reading the first sentence of the quoted excerpt, this is not a quality-of-life ranking but a ranking of states with the most business-friendly practices.

Rankings can be quirky anyway

As you can clearly see by reading the first sentence of the quoted excerpt, this is not a quality-of-life ranking but a ranking of states with the most business-friendly practices.

Yes, but quality of life was a factor in their determination. Also, I did miss that this was for the state as a whole and not OKC specific. My bad.

Rankings can be quirky anyway

Exactly, Steve. And Forbes seems to have a new ranking of some kind coming out every day. You have to wonder about the credibility of some of them even if they make you feel good.

Rankings are typically bogus, you can include/exclude data to skew a survey or poll to say whatever you want it to say.

Rankings are typically bogus, you can include/exclude data to skew a survey or poll to say whatever you want it to say.

I don't think most of the rankings are necessarily trying to say something hence being bogus. I just think many of them such as the ones by Forbes are just "make work" assignments for their writers so you have to take them with a grain of salt.

Not sure what the consternation about the Forbe's list is all about. Wasn't everybody going ape when Forbes named OKC as the Most Recession Proof city not that long ago (including the Chamber & City Hall)??

While I agree one has to look at the criteria used for these types of lists, certainly the source of the list is important as well. I am much more likely to pay attention to one put out by Forbes or even a glowing article in USA Today than the APA (American Planners Association) or what ever it is called because I have never heard of it. Not to disparage the Paseao (sp?) ranking.

Oklahoma native Will Rogers was asked what he thought about the mass exodus of Oklahomans (Okies) to California,

"it should raise both states IQs..."

Let's hope and pray that those people returning are a lot smarter than when they left.

I would love to see the demographics on where these people were before moving to California...Will was quite correct in his analysis.

Not sure what the consternation about the Forbe's list is all about. Wasn't everybody going ape when Forbes named OKC as the Most Recession Proof city not that long ago (including the Chamber & City Hall)??

I don't think I was expressing any "consternation" about Forbes in my comments. I'm sure that many of their lists are very well researched and accurate. It is obvious, however, that having almost daily lists of some kind makes you look more closely at how well they are conceived.

No problem here ljbab728, since my post immediately followed yours can understand the confusion, wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just some of the posts in general. Another Forbes list was great not that long ago, now that we made one that isn't so glowing (by the same organization), something is wrong? They had done the same list last year and we were #20 (middle of the pack as states go), probably touted by some that are questioning it now that we fell to #33 is all I am saying.

Polls and studys are like polecats, they can look good from a distance; but they can surely stink if you don't watch your step!