(I know it will be hard for some of you to get past the typos, but it's a good read)

Why Oklahoma City Could Represent the Future of America
Sep 13 2010, 5:20 PM ET | Comment

The last time the United States suffered a recession this deep and painful, it was the Great Depression. That was the era of the Dust Bowl, the California pilgrimages out of Oklahoma that John Steinbeck etched into America's memory with The Grapes of Wrath. Eighty years later, California's housing market has run dry and Oklahoma is building river parks. As families gravitate back to the heartland, with its cheap homes and lower unemployment, the migration patterns of the Great Depression have turned backward. "It's the Wrath of Grapes," says Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett.

One of the under-reported stories of the recession is the emergence of the Great Plains during the recovery. The central time zone largely avoided the highs of the housing bubble, and they've blissfully missed the lows, as well. But that's not the only thing buoying Oklahoma.

This afternoon I spoke with Oklahoma City Mayor Cornett and Oklahoma Department of Commerce Secretary Natalie Shirley about why Oklahoma has fared so well during the recovery. Unemployment in Oklahoma City is 6.7 percent, three percentage points below the national average. It has the fourth most resilient housing market in the country, according the Brookings Institution.

Avoiding the swelling and crashing of the housing tsunami has been a primary cause of Oklahoma City's success. How did they miss the wave? Shirley said the answer goes back to 1982, and Penn Square Bank. Penn Square was a small, risky commercial bank that exploded in the late 1970s and imploded in the 1982 just as falling energy consumption hurt oil prices and slammed the Oklahoma economy. The Savings and Loans Crisis followed, but it was Penn Square took down the energy industry and the banking industry.

"Over 100 banks closed," she said. "The state ground to a halt. And the bankers today remember the crisis. They've developed very safe, very conservative banking practices since that catastrophic event in the early 1980s."

Built on the dependable pillars of local government spending, military (Tinker Air Force Base is the top employer), health care and education, the city is poised for strong and steady growth in the next few years. I asked the Shirley and the mayor what they thought might be the next engine of the Oklahoma economy.

"We don't really care," she responded. "What we're looking at is a balanced economy. We learned from the 1980s that having a one-trick pony just wasn't going to do it. We're looking at creating a more firm foundation."

That's when the mayor offered an fascinating re-casting of the new economy: "The 20th century perspective was that people went where the jobs were," he said. "Today the jobs are going to go where the people are. Highly talented young people are coming to us because of the low cost of living. People want to work here."

The bust revealed a scary truth: we can't afford what very recently passed for the American dream. We cannot run up debt equal to 122 percent of our yearly earnings, as we did during the late aughts. That means Americans will seek out cheaper places to live, where high quality of life goes for a bargain. Today, the cities that can offer that aren't the LAs and NYCs but rather the San Antonios and Oklahoma Cities.

Put another way: In an economy where people follow quality of living, and jobs follow people, cities with low cost-of-living will be the early winners in the recovery.

Indeed, they already are. Eighteen of Brookings' 20 "strongest cities" (all except Washington and VA Beach) have average or below average cost-of-living, according to a new Wall Street Journal story. At a time when Washington can't seem to get employers and employees together, employment has been sticky where wages and living have been cheap.

What's more, Oklahoma has the highest entrepreneur levels of any state, according to a recent report from the Kauffman Foundation. Mayor Cornett says it's easy to see why. "College graduates are moving to the metro area in high numbers because they see how far their money goes in housing and living," he said. "You're raising a generation of people who can't afford their own house. The American dream is alive and well in Oklahoma City."

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/09/why-oklahoma-city-could-represent-the-future-of-america/62897/

Oklahoma has the highest entrepreneur levels of any state, according to a recent report from the Kauffman Foundation.

Take that all the naysayers on this site saying we need more entrepreneurs. Sure we do, but that discredits a lot of the claims on this website.

Great piece. The Atlantic is a fabulous publication. Kudos to Mayor Cornett for pointing out how appealing OKC has become for young people. I wish he would have mentioned -- and he may have -- that OKC isn't just a cheap place to live for young people; increasingly, it's a place where there are a lot of cool things happening for young people to do: food, deadcenter, up-and-coming neighborhoods, music scene, etc.

Well cool... If we represent the future of America right now, then I guess there's no need to waste all that money on a choo-choo train for rich people in the downtown area!

:sofa:

Well cool... If we represent the future of America right now, then I guess there's no need to waste all that money on a choo-choo train for rich people in the downtown area!

:sofa:

I'm smelling a hint of sarcasm here^^^

I'm smelling a hint of sarcasm here^^^

yeah, but just watch... someone will read it, flip out bigtime and respond about how I must hate progress in OKC and I should leave if I don't like it or if I'm scared of change..

Or something along those lines...

This place isn't very much fun anymore..

Well cool... If we represent the future of America right now, then I guess there's no need to waste all that money on a choo-choo train for rich people in the downtown area!

I think what we've committed to do in the near future is a factor in the designation.

Besides, I think the reason that attracting young college educated people to the city is considered a good thing is ultimately about money. So, if it takes a choo choo to attract and keep more people who make and bring more money to the city, then "all aboard!".

And btw, if you don't like it... leave!

(just kidding)

Well cool... If we represent the future of America right now, then I guess there's no need to waste all that money on a choo-choo train for rich people in the downtown area!

:sofa:

I think I see what you're trying to say, but without being vitriolic in my reply, I would like to cordially point out that having a transit solution in the urban core goes right along with being an "up and coming" city that appeals to young people, not just a cheap place to live.

oklahoma city ranks right up there with dc as a city that has a very high number of government employees (fed and state), so i always find it ironic when so many people here shout over out of control government spending.

so im not sure if okc should be a 'model' for the rest of the US.

^^While The OKC Metro has a Large number of State and Federal workers , it doesn't even come close to D.C.!but I know what you are trying to say!The State Capitol and Tinker AFB represent Most of The Government jobs you are refering too!

There is no doubt that Oklahoma has a lot of momentum. A huge part of that was shown in an Oklahoman article last week that Devon was spending something like $800mil in western OK in the next year.

One big reason people move here...it is NOT the hub of liberal group-think and people are far more self-reliant, largely because those who started the city came from somewhere else and wanted just a stake here to develop as they saw fit--and the opportunity to make it on their own, in many diverse ways. Few cities have a heritage anywhere near this. Add to that, surviving the Depression AND The Dust Bowl simultaneously...solid folks in these "parts".

Banking is national. There are plenty of people around here with bad credit who got all the loans and credit they wanted. Two things make us different: A more stable housing market and energy.

Energy, specifically oil and natural gas, will continue to drive growth in Oklahoma. There are the management/engineering 'office' jobs in OKC and Tulsa (both cities are in the middle of one of the largest oil/gas producing regions in the country). And then there are the drilling/service operations in the rural areas of the Panhandle and western/southwestern OK (oil in the Anadarko Basin, gas in the Woodford Shale play) and in eastern/northeastern OK (Excello-Mulky and Caney shale plays) extending into Kansas and Arkansas (Fayetteville shale play). There is also a growing wind power industry in western OK.

One big reason people move here...it is NOT the hub of liberal group-think and people are far more self-reliant, largely because those who started the city came from somewhere else and wanted just a stake here to develop as they saw fit--and the opportunity to make it on their own, in many diverse ways. Few cities have a heritage anywhere near this. Add to that, surviving the Depression AND The Dust Bowl simultaneously...solid folks in these "parts".

Sounds great on paper. You just described the founding of pretty much every city in America. Also, based on the number of H2s on the roadway I'd say we've strayed just as far from the lessons of the great depression as anyone else.

One big reason people move here...it is NOT the hub of liberal group-think

But it is the epicenter of conservative group-think. And a lot of those groups want to use the government to influence relationships, dictate religious views, and are often very very intolerant of things they don't understand or agree with. This is often the #1 reason I hear given as to why many would never move here or move back here, no matter how much cheaper it was for them. So, there are two sides to that coin. Whether that is a rational or well founded basis for making that declaration is debatable, but collectively we are as extreme to one side as any state is to either side and that is always going to put people off.

But it is the epicenter of conservative group-think. And a lot of those groups want to use the government to influence relationships, dictate religious views, and are often very very intolerant of things they don't understand or agree with. This is often the #1 reason I hear given as to why many would never move here or move back here, no matter how much cheaper it was for them. So, there are two sides to that coin. Whether that is a rational or well founded basis for making that declaration is debatable, but collectively we are as extreme to one side as any state is to either side and that is always going to put people off.

Put me on that list. If you're not 100% hardcore conservative you don't feel very welcome.

The metro areas that continue to perform the strongest in this recession (OKC, Washington/Baltimore, Austin/San Antonio, Boston, etc.) have large concentrations of government jobs, whether it be in the form of a military installation, a major university, federal/state jobs, large medical center, or a combo of all. Its not a liberal/conservative thing. There's plenty of free enterprise in the form of contractors and businesses that serve these entities.

As someone who works in the energy sector, I can tell you that the energy is not as recession proof as some of you think, as there have been plenty of layoffs with small serice-type companies over the past year. On the flip side, this sector didn't melt down like real estate or auto manufacturing, and its pretty poised for an upturn (at least I hope). And considering the hype over natural gas shale plays, it should benefit this area greatly.

The metro areas that continue to perform the strongest in this recession (OKC, Washington/Baltimore, Austin/San Antonio, Boston, etc.) have large concentrations of government jobs, whether it be in the form of a military installation, a major university, federal/state jobs, large medical center, or a combo of all. Its not a liberal/conservative thing. There's plenty of free enterprise in the form of contractors and businesses that serve these entities.

As someone who works in the energy sector, I can tell you that the energy is not as recession proof as some of you think, as there have been plenty of layoffs with small serice-type companies over the past year. On the flip side, this sector didn't melt down like real estate or auto manufacturing, and its pretty poised for an upturn (at least I hope). And considering the hype over natural gas shale plays, it should benefit this area greatly.

If the federal government would get solidly behind natural gas it would be a tremendous asset for Oklahoma. This state, along with Texas and several other states like Pennsylvania, North Dakota, and Colorado, could see a huge shot in the arm with more natural gas drilling. It impacts Oklahoma the most though because the main players in the industry like Chesapeake and ONEOK are based here, along with many other smaller companies and associated companies. The key is keeping those companies here (and not in Texas) and nurturing start-ups.

One big reason people move here...it is NOT the hub of liberal group-think and people are far more self-reliant, largely because those who started the city came from somewhere else and wanted just a stake here to develop as they saw fit--and the opportunity to make it on their own, in many diverse ways. Few cities have a heritage anywhere near this. Add to that, surviving the Depression AND The Dust Bowl simultaneously...solid folks in these "parts".

You have no idea what "liberal" is. Don't be such a jerk, as there are many talented liberals that are playing a major role in making this city great. Not everything is about ideology.

You have no idea what "liberal" is. Don't be such a jerk, as there are many talented liberals that are playing a major role in making this city great. Not everything is about ideology.

Exactly!

Put me on that list. If you're not 100% hardcore conservative you don't feel very welcome.

Damn, I hate to make a "me too" post, but me too. I moved away 15 years ago, and due to job circumstances (being highest paid in my dept. got me laid off, and the first job I got after applying in Phoenix, St. Louis, KC, OKC, and a few other places was here), had to move back here. Oh, how I've hated it ever since, I feel like the guy that wrote to the Gazette about voting for change, voting for non-Republicans, trying to change things, beating his head against the wall for years (if not decades), and only getting a concussion out of it. I need to figure out what group(s) in OKC is/are fighting for change (against homophobia, racism, unbelievable anti-abortion laws, etc.) that are actually big and powerful enough to effect change here...

Put me on that list. If you're not 100% hardcore conservative you don't feel very welcome.

Indeed, that's one reason I have no desire to ever move back to OKC.

Put me on that list. If you're not 100% hardcore conservative you don't feel very welcome.

Then you should leave. Others are coming here for it. Move to California or New York...you will fit right in. It is only correct people should congregate with those who are like-minded...are you being held here against your will?

Indeed, that's one reason I have no desire to ever move back to OKC.

You are wise for that choice. And, thank you for your thoughtful decision.

Damn, I hate to make a "me too" post, but me too. I moved away 15 years ago, and due to job circumstances (being highest paid in my dept. got me laid off, and the first job I got after applying in Phoenix, St. Louis, KC, OKC, and a few other places was here), had to move back here. Oh, how I've hated it ever since, I feel like the guy that wrote to the Gazette about voting for change, voting for non-Republicans, trying to change things, beating his head against the wall for years (if not decades), and only getting a concussion out of it. I need to figure out what group(s) in OKC is/are fighting for change (against homophobia, racism, unbelievable anti-abortion laws, etc.) that are actually big and powerful enough to effect change here...

Nice to see your entire existence is based on money--I guess that would make you--a REPUBLICAN??? Or--is it something else that made you forsake all you stand for?...

You have no idea what "liberal" is. Don't be such a jerk, as there are many talented liberals that are playing a major role in making this city great. Not everything is about ideology.

Name some...please...

If the federal government would get solidly behind natural gas it would be a tremendous asset for Oklahoma. This state, along with Texas and several other states like Pennsylvania, North Dakota, and Colorado, could see a huge shot in the arm with more natural gas drilling. It impacts Oklahoma the most though because the main players in the industry like Chesapeake and ONEOK are based here, along with many other smaller companies and associated companies. The key is keeping those companies here (and not in Texas) and nurturing start-ups.

Is that not why they are building a giant skyscraper downtown? Invest in CNG technology for your retirement funds...you will thank me for it later...

But it is the epicenter of conservative group-think. And a lot of those groups want to use the government to influence relationships, dictate religious views, and are often very very intolerant of things they don't understand or agree with. This is often the #1 reason I hear given as to why many would never move here or move back here, no matter how much cheaper it was for them. So, there are two sides to that coin. Whether that is a rational or well founded basis for making that declaration is debatable, but collectively we are as extreme to one side as any state is to either side and that is always going to put people off.

Perhaps that is why business is doing well here...that ever cross your mind? You will waste a LOT of time and your LIFE waiting to be loved and approved of by everyone around you...stop worrying about who is trying to affect your **relationships** FOR GOD"S SAKE!!! Keep a gun by the front door...

Then you should leave. Others are coming here for it. Move to California or New York...you will fit right in. It is only correct people should congregate with those who are like-minded...are you being held here against your will?

Already did. Took my welfare check, oh I mean 100K a year job, and went back home to Wisconsin. I am lucky enough to work from home full time so I can live anywhere. Keep on pushing us evil moderates away. Your state will fall behind.

Already did. Took my welfare check, oh I mean 100K a year job, and went back home to Wisconsin. I am lucky enough to work from home full time so I can live anywhere. Keep on pushing us evil moderates away. Your state will fall behind.

Then WI is where you belong. Much happiness to you, have a chunk of very old cheddar for me...at room temperture--please...

BTW--if 100K moves you to extremes...you are a man of "modest expectations"...

Then you should leave. Others are coming here for it. Move to California or New York...you will fit right in. It is only correct people should congregate with those who are like-minded...are you being held here against your will?

Disagree. There should be varying viewpoints. I'd say inner OKC is pretty moderate with liberal social views and more conservative fiscal views. From my experience people are pretty accepting of different viewpoints. If you need even more of a concentration of left of center Norman is a good place to live/work by OU. Austin, for instance, may be very Democratic in its inner city but its wealthy western and northern neighborhoods and suburbs are conservative, like the rest of Texas.

jmarkross is our new right-wing standard bearer, apparently.

BTW--if 100K moves you to extremes...you are a man of "modest expectations"...

It moved me away from extremes. Plus, I am back closer to my family and friends. People like you chastise people like me just because we don't have the exact same political viewpoint. Sorry to hijack the thread but this is a prime example of the negativity I saw while living in OKC.

Name some...please...

Don't be such an infant. You are obviously clueless about how this city operates. Perhaps you should go back to your daydream that OKC is some unified right-wing utopia, which, gulp, has more government jobs than just about any city in the region outside of Austin.

Don't be such an infant. You are obviously clueless about how this city operates. Perhaps you should go back to your daydream that OKC is some unified right-wing utopia, which, gulp, has more government jobs than just about any city in the region outside of Austin.

Second request...name some...

--although I must thank you for the use of the pejorative--"infant"--it made my day since I am over 60--thanks!

jmarkross is our new right-wing standard bearer, apparently.

Ronald Reagan lives...and thanks for the compliment...

If the federal government would get solidly behind natural gas it would be a tremendous asset for Oklahoma. This state, along with Texas and several other states like Pennsylvania, North Dakota, and Colorado, could see a huge shot in the arm with more natural gas drilling. It impacts Oklahoma the most though because the main players in the industry like Chesapeake and ONEOK are based here, along with many other smaller companies and associated companies. The key is keeping those companies here (and not in Texas) and nurturing start-ups.

Hmmm..going to try and get back on topic.

I agree with you 100%. It would benefit OK greatly if there was a new mandate for natural gas usage. The paradox is many in the O&G biz are quite conservative would be against any federal mandates that require that. OTOH, my experience with natural gas is that it hasn't quite "caught on" as a major fuel source. True its much cleaner and in abundance in the United States, but for whatever reason, the percentage of natural gas used in relation to other fuels is only up slightly in the past decade. Even right now, there is a huge surplus of gas in storage, which is why current prices are so depressed. Plus, the views of natural gas exploration with the feds has taken a hit b/c some idiots in PA and NY didn't know how to frac properly and suddenly, hydraulic fracturing under scrutiny.

I get the sense that the bump that will move gas to a more widely used source is the eventual return of $100+ bbl oil. Remember 2008?

Disagree. There should be varying viewpoints. I'd say inner OKC is pretty moderate with liberal social views and more conservative fiscal views. From my experience people are pretty accepting of different viewpoints. If you need even more of a concentration of left of center Norman is a good place to live/work by OU. Austin, for instance, may be very Democratic in its inner city but its wealthy western and northern neighborhoods and suburbs are conservative, like the rest of Texas.

Inner OKC may be more moderate, but it's far from being liberal. I know it's anecdotal, but most of my friends who stayed in-state for college and now live in and around downtown OKC are quite conservative. Norman is a conservative suburban town and OU is a conservative university relative to UT. The prayer on the front page of the newspaper, praying before Thunder games, the plethora of (giant) christian churches, the giant cross on I-35...to me, all of these small things add up to the entire city of OKC projecting a conservative Southern Baptist mindset.

Having lived in both OKC and Austin for long periods of time, it is not simply a matter of a little slice of Austin being liberal and the rest conservative as you seem to suggest by comparison to Norman. The city proper as a whole is liberal; for instance, Travis County (with over 1 million people) voted heavily (64%) Democrat in the 2008 election. Unlike what seems to be the case in Oklahoma County where Democrat votes mostly seemed to track low-income areas, large (higher-income) parts of inner south, west, central, and north Austin voted Democrat in the 2008 election. All told, there's a very noticeable difference in the overall attitude and political culture of metropolitan OKC and Austin, no question.

It moved me away from extremes. Plus, I am back closer to my family and friends. People like you chastise people like me just because we don't have the exact same political viewpoint. Sorry to hijack the thread but this is a prime example of the negativity I saw while living in OKC.

Please place a mirror in front of you--and read the post you have just left. It is this feigned indignation that literally inspires me--not the repartee itself--but--the rationale behind it. A stunning expose into human thought...BTW--I don't live in OKC any more.

Yeah- a political discussion in The OKC Development section!

Inner OKC may be more moderate, but it's far from being liberal. I know it's anecdotal, but most of my friends who stayed in-state for college and now live in and around downtown OKC are quite conservative. Norman is a conservative suburban town and OU is a conservative university relative to UT. The prayer on the front page of the newspaper, praying before Thunder games, the plethora of (giant) christian churches, the giant cross on I-35...to me, all of these small things add up to the entire city of OKC projecting a conservative Southern Baptist mindset.

Having lived in both OKC and Austin for long periods of time, it is not simply a matter of a little slice of Austin being liberal and the rest conservative as you seem to suggest by comparison to Norman. The city proper as a whole is liberal; for instance, Travis County (with over 1 million people) voted heavily (64%) Democrat in the 2008 election. Unlike what seems to be the case in Oklahoma County where Democrat votes mostly seemed to track low-income areas, large (higher-income) parts of inner south, west, central, and north Austin voted Democrat in the 2008 election. All told, there's a very noticeable difference in the overall attitude and political culture of metropolitan OKC and Austin, no question.

Different, yes, but not as pronounced as you make it seem. The hightech industry brought a lot of Democrats from California and coastal cities to Austin in the 90's and still does which reflects the higher percentage of Democrat voters. OKC does not have that same dynamic. The large university presence also greatly affects those numbers in Austin. Imagine if OU were more than twice its current size and you get UT, the second or third largest university in the nation. It's Texas, there are still plenty of conservatives in and around Austin. To relate to the thread, hightech has brought a lot of new residents and money to Austin just like oil/gas can do for OKC. Both are growing industries in a business-friendly region.

Already did. Took my welfare check, oh I mean 100K a year job, and went back home to Wisconsin. I am lucky enough to work from home full time so I can live anywhere. Keep on pushing us evil moderates away. Your state will fall behind.

Congratulations! And if anybody tells you that a salary of 100K makes you a man of "modest" anything - they should be ashamed. If you are young, 100K is an incredible salary in this economy. I can't believe anybody would actually say that to you (it was said in another post). Again, congratulations. On second thought, if you are any age and making 100K then you are a successful individual. I'll match my salary with anyone here and it doesn't mean squat. 100K? Good on 'ya and good luck!

Congratulations! And if anybody tells you that a salary of 100K makes you a man of "modest" anything - they should be ashamed. If you are young, 100K is an incredible salary in this economy. I can't believe anybody would actually say that to you (it was said in another post). Again, congratulations. On second thought, if you are any age and making 100K then you are a successful individual. I'll match my salary with anyone here and it doesn't mean squat. 100K? Good on 'ya and good luck!

Generally--people are not gauche enough to drop salary figures around...for whatever reason...just a matter of good manners...BTW--I am not "ashamed", and hardly anyone in this life ever should be--in any circumstance..."shame" is usually a tool used to control others...

Disagree. There should be varying viewpoints. I'd say inner OKC is pretty moderate with liberal social views and more conservative fiscal views. From my experience people are pretty accepting of different viewpoints. If you need even more of a concentration of left of center Norman is a good place to live/work by OU. Austin, for instance, may be very Democratic in its inner city but its wealthy western and northern neighborhoods and suburbs are conservative, like the rest of Texas.

BG, I completely agree with you here. The inner city doesn't necessarily denote just downtown. People on the inner Southside and Northside I find are actually quite moderate to liberal. It's the suburbs and outlying areas that aren't so. And even if they are ideologically Conservative, most people here are generally accepting. I'm so tired of hearing this fight from other people when really OKC isn't as bad as liberal wants to make it, and I'm pretty liberal. I think you're spot on with this post BG.

Different, yes, but not as pronounced as you make it seem. The hightech industry brought a lot of Democrats from California and coastal cities to Austin in the 90's and still does which reflects the higher percentage of Democrat voters. OKC does not have that same dynamic. The large university presence also greatly affects those numbers in Austin. Imagine if OU were more than twice its current size and you get UT, the second or third largest university in the nation. It's Texas, there are still plenty of conservatives in and around Austin. To relate to the thread, hightech has brought a lot of new residents and money to Austin just like oil/gas can do for OKC. Both are growing industries in a business-friendly region.
Williamson County (Cedar Park, Leander, Round Rock) is heavily conservative and the northwest edge of the Austin city limits (like Parmer & McNeil area) bleed into Wilco, Hays County is pretty conservative as well. I know plenty of conservative types who live up there and more than you think live in Austin/Travis County just like more liberals live in OKC than most people think. Most of the California transplants that I have met here in Austin are far more conservative than your typical Central Austin type, I see a fairly even mix of political sign during the election cycle in my fairly close-in South Austin neighborhood. Many of the liberals that I know in OKC aren't politically active, they just vote for those they like and keep it to themselves and always have. Not everyone has to run off at the mouth about politics.

There are also plenty of those "big churches" here as well as some of the well known Christian artists have been based out of here like Chris Tomlin and Phillips, Craig & Dean.

Put me on that list. If you're not 100% hardcore conservative you don't feel very welcome.

Its sad that this is a reason people choose not to move back here or stay here. Grow some balls. Thats what I have to say..

Different, yes, but not as pronounced as you make it seem. The hightech industry brought a lot of Democrats from California and coastal cities to Austin in the 90's and still does which reflects the higher percentage of Democrat voters. OKC does not have that same dynamic. The large university presence also greatly affects those numbers in Austin. Imagine if OU were more than twice its current size and you get UT, the second or third largest university in the nation. It's Texas, there are still plenty of conservatives in and around Austin. To relate to the thread, hightech has brought a lot of new residents and money to Austin just like oil/gas can do for OKC. Both are growing industries in a business-friendly region.

It seems we'll have to agree to disagree. Having lived in both cities might allow me to make a more concrete evaluation of the differences and similarities between the two. Perhaps I am biased somewhat by living in central Austin. Regardless, based on my own observations the difference seems exactly as I suggested in my previous post.

From the perspective of political leanings, doubling OU in size certainly does not equal UT. The two schools have very different student bodies (based on, e.g., student achievement, political engagement, minority population) and again my opinion is a product of personal experience (and statistics) rather than speculation.

I'm not arguing against the fact there is a large conservative population in greater Austin; I also realize many politically conservative people are living in the heart of the city. I'm not trying to suggest that Austin is nearly as liberal as cities like San Francisco, either. I am, however, arguing that the liberal attitude that defines the central city in many respects permeates much of the city proper, just as I feel the conservative values of suburban OKC seem to define the political climate of a large part of OKC proper--but without a large liberal part of town to balance.

I'm conservative. Would I move to California if a job opened in my industry, yes. Who cares if everyone "hates" you (your views). I have some SUPER liberal friends, we know each other's views (almost 180 degrees on most issues), we get along flawlessly because we know friendship doesn't have to involve agreeing on everything, or ANYTHING.

If you can't get along with someone because of their political views, you need some help with your social skills. You have a choice on where you can reside, if you don't like it, move. You say, "But my job has me here." OK. Quit. If you can't make friends without pissing them off because you continually feel the need to correct and debate them on every issue, you need help. I disagree with a ton of things, but I know sometimes it creates more trouble than it is worth by arguing a FUNDAMENTAL difference with someone. I have different fundamentals than other people, so what makes sense to me might not always with others.

Tolerance goes both ways. People will be tolerant of you if you are tolerant of them.

Why do so many people who don't even live here come to our boards and stir up nothing but trouble???

Guys if you're out you're out. Let it go man. Leave Oklahoma behind, we'll be fine without you.

If you wanna stay that's cool too... but practice those good manners your mother taught you when in someone else's home.

Tolerance goes both ways. People will be tolerant of you if you are tolerant of them.
Many of those that preach "tolerance" are intolerant of any view other than their own no matter the subject.

Many of those that preach "tolerance" are intolerant of any view other than their own no matter the subject.

I would agree with that. The lesson? Be intolerant of anybody preaching tolerance who are actually intolerant themselves and fail to even understand what tolerance means.

I'm intolerant of those who are intolerant. I'm tolerant of those who are tolerant... get it? If you claim I am intolerant, you better start pulling up some posts to confirm that.

Back on topic ... The The Atlantic Monthly has a related article on the top 20 performing metros today. See here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/

Nice to see your entire existence is based on money--I guess that would make you--a REPUBLICAN??? Or--is it something else that made you forsake all you stand for?...

Good god, just reading your posts in this thread, I've concluded you're a complete idiot. Again, a stupid **** assuming you know something about me because of one post I made. :doh:

It's not even worth my time explaining to you what my situation was and why I had to move back, but I just had to post *something* against your massive stupidity - not everything is as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Oh yeah, just so you know, a huge proportion of society's entire existence is based on money, if you have a house, utility bills, a desire to eat, etc. (unless you own your home, generate your own power, and grow your own food, etc., which very few people do).

As far as Republican, you are absolutely so far off base, it's just completely ridiculous.

To diggyba - if your skin was green and everybody that lived around you (and the politicians that made the laws) hated green people and constantly made their living environment miserable in various ways (through laws, generally accepted practices, etc.), would you grow some balls and tough it out or leave?

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

Good god, just reading your posts in this thread, I've concluded you're a complete idiot. Again, a stupid **** assuming you know something about me because of one post I made. :doh:

It's not even worth my time explaining to you what my situation was and why I had to move back, but I just had to post *something* against your massive stupidity - not everything is as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Oh yeah, just so you know, a huge proportion of society's entire existence is based on money, if you have a house, utility bills, a desire to eat, etc. (unless you own your home, generate your own power, and grow your own food, etc., which very few people do).

As far as Republican, you are absolutely so far off base, it's just completely ridiculous.

To diggyba - if your skin was green and everybody that lived around you (and the politicians that made the laws) hated green people and constantly made their living environment miserable in various ways (through laws, generally accepted practices, etc.), would you grow some balls and tough it out or leave?

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

Sadly--the point of the remark flew right over the top of your head...

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

So then don't complain if moving is too hard. Don't accept a job somewhere if you are afraid of where you'll be moving to. And, yes, I know about cut off friends and family. Fortunately my industry allows free travel anywhere flown, space available. Or a severely reduced ZED.

To SkyWestOKC - it's not that easy to just "quit" or "move", unless you're independently wealthy or have a load of money saved, especially now. Trust me, I've moved twice across the country in 3 years, and it's a horrible thing to do (for us anyway, maybe some people move across the country every few years, and if so, they're stronger people than we are). Cuts off friends, family, professional relationships, etc., in addition to massively screwing up your finances for a long time...

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It is the CURSE of a free market economy...Lenin was RIGHT! Under Obama--all these silly choices will be planned by the state...and no more of this needless moving about by the masses...

I'm intolerant of those who are intolerant. I'm tolerant of those who are tolerant... get it? If you claim I am intolerant, you better start pulling up some posts to confirm that.
What's your opinion of the Dutch?


The ironic thing is the most liberal people that I know here in Austin both grew up in Oklahoma.

What about the Dutch?