the sidewalk has been open for some time now ..

No, a foot-and-a-half patch of pedestrian ingress and egress on one side of Main does not count. There is not a pedestrian crossing at Main and Hudson. The construction is very effective at preventing Devon employees from comfortably getting to the block that Preftakes and Devon brass want to be a blank slate.

Just to clarify, I don't mean to imply some kind of insidious divide between Devon workers and the brass, because obviously it's a very well-ran and empowered workforce, but I do think that making that block a blank slate across Hudson is only a concern to maybe 10 people at Devon.

They already succeeded in running Trattoria out of business, but that wasn't the intended target of all this. Wrong side of Walker.

It's not just Main, it's also Hudson now:
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061125.jpg

This is patently the same as other sidewalks that are considered "open"

the sidewalk has been open for some time now ..

Did you have to go and ruin it for the conspiracy theorists.

Did you have to go and ruin it for the conspiracy theorists.

You're kidding right. You don't think this is terrible for business? Lol

For better or worse this project is on schedule.

http://newsok.com/construction-continues-on-bicentennial-park-in-downtown-oklahoma-city/article/3680606

So far this is the only positve aspect I've heard about.


Part of the work under way at the park now is for utilities for a fountain and electrical service, Wenger said. Outlets throughout the park will allow for events that need electricity to be held in front of the Civic Center without unsightly long cables and other temporary infrastructure, Wenger said.

“That's all a part of this project, to encourage new opportunities for the park that haven't been there for a number of years,” Wenger said.

Hopefully I'll be surprised by the finished project.

You're kidding right. You don't think this is terrible for business? Lol

I never said it wasn't terrible for business, but some claim the delays were intentional, hoping to close them down. That's down right asinine.

From Urban Pioneer:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062121.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062122.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062123.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062124.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062125.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062126.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062127.jpg

More:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062128.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18062129.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180621210.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180621211.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180621212.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180621213.jpg

I never said it wasn't terrible for business, but some claim the delays were intentional, hoping to close them down. That's down right asinine.

How do you explain how long it's taken? Because you can't rationally explain it.

Ineptitude is much more common than malice, especially in bureaucracies like city government. City Hall is still adapting to the age of internet criticism, and slowly, like they do everything else. I thought it was interesting to hear Cornett say in the streetcar/boulevard video on NewsOK that "not everyone" cares about a street that is several years down the line. This was his reason for not being transparent about the elevation issues of the boulevard at Classen/Western. Of course his token response to criticism of completed projects is that "people should have spoken up during the design and planning phases." He seems unresponsive to public pressure, and as the leader goes, so do the lesser bureaucrats and laborers.

I know there were complicating issues on that section of Main Street but funny how that section has taken forever, yet the much larger area near City Hall and the Civic Center will only take a few months, including completely re-doing Bicentennial Park.


Ineptitude is much more common than malice

Love this quote. So true, but it also comes down to motivation.

Another key example is the months it took to get street lights to Film Row and and now 2nd Street near Maywood Lofts.

You would think someone at public works would recognize that this sort of thing is completely unacceptable, yet it still takes articles in the media, a bunch of motivated activists and calls to city council before they do anything, and even then it takes weeks.


To be fair, for the longest time nobody really asked much or expected much from these groups. They aren't used to people caring this much and holding them accountable.

If Project 180 were a lawn-mowing service, they'd come do the sides of your yard one week, leave and do the same for other homes the following week, return to do your backyard the next week, then have to re-do the sides again because the grass has grown, then leave and ..... well, you get the idea.

This is a gross failure of project management. The sidewalk in front of our building on Robinson Avenue has been torn up now for 9 months. There are gaping holes in concrete pathways where pedestrains walk every day. No construction worker has been back in weeks to do anything. The reality is there are two many areas and too few workers to do this job timely.

Ineptitude is much more common than malice, especially in bureaucracies like city government. City Hall is still adapting to the age of internet criticism, and slowly, like they do everything else. I thought it was interesting to hear Cornett say in the streetcar/boulevard video on NewsOK that "not everyone" cares about a street that is several years down the line. This was his reason for not being transparent about the elevation issues of the boulevard at Classen/Western. Of course his token response to criticism of completed projects is that "people should have spoken up during the design and planning phases." He seems unresponsive to public pressure, and as the leader goes, so do the lesser bureaucrats and laborers.

I am glad you made note of the quote. That was actually embarrassing for a city leader to say something so stupid – and quite honestly, childish.

If Project 180 were a lawn-mowing service, they'd come do the sides of your yard one week, leave and do the same for other homes the following week, return to do your backyard the next week, then have to re-do the sides again because the grass has grown, then leave and ..... well, you get the idea.

This is a gross failure of project management. The sidewalk in front of our building on Robinson Avenue has been torn up now for 9 months. There are gaping holes in concrete pathways where pedestrains walk every day. No construction worker has been back in weeks to do anything. The reality is there are two many areas and too few workers to do this job timely.

+1
I find it totally inexcusable that the P-180 management team is so oblivous of the concept of finishing what you start. I'm surprised that no other businesses on Robinson have complained. It's beyond aesthetics - the situation has become a safety hazard and a security hazard.
If any of the large buildings on Robinson between Sheridan and Park have a true emergency - fire, bomb threat, etc - there is no way to safely evacuate to the east and no where to go.
Our last fire drill at 55. N Robinson was a CF. Thank goodness we haven't had a real emergency. The sidewalks and so-called crosswalks aren't ADA compliant.
Evidently, it's the seagull mentality for the project - fly in, crap all over everything and fly out. No accountibility from the mayor on down - it's "someone else's fault".

I never said it wasn't terrible for business, but some claim the delays were intentional, hoping to close them down. That's down right asinine.

Unless you can offer an explanation about the first set of delays, then the fiasco with the basement, then the delays in fixing the basement, then the next set of delays, and now the project still not being finished, I find your typical defensiveness down right asinine.

I agree that ineptitude is a lot more common than corruption at City Hall. The problem is that no level of ineptitude can explain W. Main. It's not a very far stretch to look for other factors when you consider that the people paying for P180 are exactly the same people who want the W. Main block to be a blank slate.

Unless you can offer an explanation about the first set of delays, then the fiasco with the basement, then the delays in fixing the basement, then the next set of delays, and now the project still not being finished, I find your typical defensiveness down right asinine.

I agree that ineptitude is a lot more common than corruption at City Hall. The problem is that no level of ineptitude can explain W. Main. It's not a very far stretch to look for other factors when you consider that the people paying for P180 are exactly the same people who want the W. Main block to be a blank slate.

I asked someone who is very high up in Public Works and was told that the contractor is to blame for the recent delays on Main street. That being said, I'm not a big fan of Project 180 manager and I believe she is out of her league on a project that is this big and some of her contractors are out of control.

That sometimes happens with contractors. The problem that makes me hard to believe that this is all explainable human error is the convergence of all this bad news, which kinda resembles a .001% chance coming full circle. I am a LOT likely to believe ulterior motives considering the background story of this block's potential development (or redevelopment) future rather than the extremely unlikely scenario of all of these blows coming at once. Considering how rarely the city crews are out there making progress on the site, it seems very convenient that new headaches emerge more often than construction crews do on this block.

For example, last Friday I was downtown when power was off for about 3 hours because some construction crews hit some buried utilities on accident. That happens a lot more routinely than being delayed a year because of hitting an unknown basement (I forget was it in the 420 bldg? that the city itself owns??) that nobody knew anything about. Then the problem is that clearly they were not making haste to resolve the issue as it was dragged out as long as possible. This is pretty typical government procedure - to wait until the latest possible date to reply to a letter for example, or to reply to a lawsuit, or whatever the issue be - in situations that you'd just rather go away.

This was very clearly the case with W. Main, after this being torn up for years, there was no desire on the city's part to move it forward, or even the problems would have been resolved a lot sooner than usual. It does not take a year to patch up a basement so it does not flood. So even if there isn't a smoking gun as far as running Coney Island out of business is concerned, there is at least depraved negligence toward that very end which in cases of homicide is more than enough for a guilty verdict.

Is Coney Island out of business? I hope not.

No, only Trattoria and Lunch Box so far.

Did the Lunch Box close?

Last I heard they had a sign on their door stating their intention to do so.

i would also argue that trattoria closing had very little to do with p180

This was very clearly the case with W. Main, after this being torn up for years, there was no desire on the city's part to move it forward, or even the problems would have been resolved a lot sooner than usual. It does not take a year to patch up a basement so it does not flood. So even if there isn't a smoking gun as far as running Coney Island out of business is concerned, there is at least depraved negligence toward that very end which in cases of homicide is more than enough for a guilty verdict.

I think it's pretty clear that Main Street has been a low priority. They ran into some problems and rather than throwing a bunch of resources at it, they've kind of picked at it while starting and even completing much larger P180 projects.

Ironically, in addition to the private businesses along Main lots of city employees work at Main Place right next to Coney Island.

i would also argue that trattoria closing had very little to do with p180

Don't spoil a good conspiracy theory. It's a lot more fun and is all the rage. Even though Trattorias business wasn't good before 180 it is easier to believe they were forced out.

That said, I do think the city should attempt to be more transparent ... Even though some wouldn't believe them no matter what. If there is a plausible reason for the extended time line, I think it is owed the public.

More progress today. Hopefully they can wrap this up soon.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534344_477023252314303_1721049807_n.jpg

Everyone talks about Coney Island but what about the Pizza place next door to it? Worth the hassle to get to?

Everyone talks about Coney Island but what about the Pizza place next door to it? Worth the hassle to get to?

The pizza place would not be worth going to if I could be teleported there to a table with a free hot cheesy pizza sitting in front of me.

i would also argue that trattoria closing had very little to do with p180

But you would be wrong, project 180 had nothing to do with the closing of Trattoria.

So, we are down to a conspiracy to run a hot dog place out of business? This certainly is high drama.

WHEN DID THE LUNCH BOX CLOSE? I saw a sign posted on the front door announcing that they would not, and that they signed a new lease, during the week of the Arts Festival.

They arent closed and did get a new lease.

Thank goodness. I can't imagine downtown without Lunch Box pie.

So, we are down to a conspiracy to run a hot dog place out of business? This certainly is high drama.

It's hot wieners, get it right.

And I for one am so glad that the closing plans have been canceled for Lunch Box. The sign was definitely up the last time I went there when I first got back in town, I think first day of the art's festival or maybe just before.

I would say it is high drama as to getting an explanation why the city could give a rat's arse about finishing West Main in under 3 years when it only needed to take 6 months like all the other streetscapes, especially for just a one block interval. West Main is already finished and looking stellar between Walker and Shartel.

I stated this on a new thread about the Lunch Box but I called them today and they said they got a new lease.

The guy that answered the phone did not know any of the details but he didn't sound confident they were safe and dry. It was more like "We aren't closing... For now."


Here's what I believe happened: There was a tentative deal for a new Tower and other development on that block and it has since fallen through. Hence, Precor now lists all their properties for lease and at least gives an extension to the Lunch Box.

I still think something big is going to happen on that block, especially since they now own the Bus Station.


And BTW, I'm hearing the city is moving forward with plans to build a parking garage on that empty lot on the north side of Main, perhaps with more city offices on top.

I was just speculating about that to a family member who works in the 420 bldg. If/when that building is renovated, there will be a need for more city office space. This could lend itself to an interesting structure, I'm excited.

More progress today. Hopefully they can wrap this up soon.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/534344_477023252314303_1721049807_n.jpg
Was there yesterday (didn't think of taking a pic), but the sidewalk is definitely passable and wider than I was expecting from this pic...maybe even wide enough to get a couple of wheel chairs thru side by side...but just the ongoing construction and appearnace can be a dteriment for many...not uncommon for a business to put up banners/signs screaming "Yes, We are OPEN" to combat the downward trend in business. Tried Coney Island again and it just isn't for me but they must be doing something right and enough folks do like them for them to have been in business since 1924(?). Stopped by Pizza Town first just to check them out but their AC wasn't working...at least Island's was...

Trees going in:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/480548_477636538919641_120793601270605_2071392_107 1299200_n.jpg

Wow, that was this morning around 10am, while I was stuck in a grueling city council session. You literally got that up just as they were going in.

But you would be wrong, project 180 had nothing to do with the closing of Trattoria.

For some reason, I could never be bothered to go there. Even when I was doing work in the Montgomery at lunch time. It was always dead when I went by.

I think it was just failure to launch from the get go.

Trees going in:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/480548_477636538919641_120793601270605_2071392_107 1299200_n.jpg

It is too bad Main Street ends with such a bland view.

Hopefully at some point there will at least be retail at ground level of that Devon garage.

I really wish they could finish up the streets around Sheridan and Robinson before the Finals. Here is our chance to shine as a city while our Thunder brings it home. While on the street the last couple of days, I've overheard several visitors comment on the state of the streets and confusing construction. C'mon, Project 180 team - step it up!

not much they can do when the ground is waterlogged rather them do it right than rush thru and end up with a strecth like 164th they freshly paved it and it was nothing but a mile of speed bumps have not been on it again

not much they can do when the ground is waterlogged rather them do it right than rush thru and end up with a strecth like 164th they freshly paved it and it was nothing but a mile of speed bumps have not been on it again

They haven't even begun to claim weather delays... yet. Weather has actually been fantastic for construction over the last decade that this measly block-long street project has been ongoing.

Hopefully at some point there will at least be retail at ground level of that Devon garage.

A 40' or 50' obelisk in the median at the end of Main would break up the one-demisional look. Even when the trees mature they will be leaf-less for several months out of the year.

A 40' or 50' obelisk in the median at the end of Main would break up the one-demisional look. Even when the trees mature they will be leaf-less for several months out of the year.

While I, too, would love for OKC to become some pedestrian oriented utopia for its citizens, your posts always leave me wondering if you ever stop whining?

I really wish they could finish up the streets around Sheridan and Robinson before the Finals. Here is our chance to shine as a city while our Thunder brings it home. While on the street the last couple of days, I've overheard several visitors comment on the state of the streets and confusing construction. C'mon, Project 180 team - step it up!

+1

I think West Main looks great. Aside from filling in the lot across from the 420 building, I hope nothing changes on Main except that buildings get renovated. Oh, and that the construction wraps up in the next 10 years.

They seem to be trying to get all the stop lights back up along Reno before the playoffs start.

...Oh, and that the construction wraps up in the next 10 years.

Wouldn't that be nice. So unlikely, but wouldn't it be nice.

While I, too, would love for OKC to become some pedestrian oriented utopia for its citizens, your posts always leave me wondering if you ever stop whining?

It's obvious your new to OKC TALK, otherwise you wouldn't have to ask!!

While I, too, would love for OKC to become some pedestrian oriented utopia for its citizens, your posts always leave me wondering if you ever stop whining?

It isn't going to get there if someone isn't pushing the issue. The City has spent a lot time and money on this stretch of road only to have the view terminate into a giant monolithic wall. It doesn't look good and is counter-productive to the purpose of the streetscape. Views should terminate with architecturally significant structures or natural features.

It is an architectural feature

It is an architectural feature

It just isn't significant. No one can look at that say it looks good. Of course, this is the one of the many problem with superblocks.

I might also add 'cultural significance' to the list of JTF approved street view terminators. Downtown OKC has something like 15 superblocks. How many of them have terminal views that are worth looking at?

Right, I wish Main had been extended through the Devon development, but we weren't thinking about that at the time. That said, especially once the glass storefronts get some activity, I think it is good architecture. The Well has glass windows looking out, and it is certainly a modern piece of architecture from street to sky. Certainly beats any other parking garage in Oklahoma.

Right, I wish Main had been extended through the Devon development, but we weren't thinking about that at the time. That said, especially once the glass storefronts get some activity, I think it is good architecture. The Well has glass windows looking out, and it is certainly a modern piece of architecture from street to sky. Certainly beats any other parking garage in Oklahoma.

Hold the presses. LOL

There was already a massive public parking garage that straddled that whole section of Main before Devon built up and out.

Prior to that, the old Galleria project and vacant lot severed Main Street for decades.


If anything, Devon has vastly improved what was there before by pushing the garage to the street, adding life in the form of the health club and adding the future possibility of retail at ground level.

Oddly enough, it didn't seem so bad with the old garage because it was setback from 130' and had the enterance to the garage off of Hudson (which was like an extension of Main St). When Devon extended the garage to the sidewalk it greatly improved the streetwall along Hudson and created the opportunity for sidewalk fronting retail, but it also created an ugly terminal view from Main. I wish this had been considered when Devon was creating the expansion or when P180 was being planned, but it wasn't. It wasn't even something I thought about until I saw the picture posted earlier, and as was pointed out several times, I look at almost every development with a critical eye. Now I have another item to add to my JTF development approval scale :)

...my JTF development approval scale

Sigh...

Considering .... Oh, never mind

Oddly enough, it didn't seem so bad with the old garage because it was setback from 130' and had the enterance to the garage off of Hudson (which was like an extension of Main St). When Devon extended the garage to the sidewalk it greatly improved the streetwall along Hudson and created the opportunity for sidewalk fronting retail, but it also created an ugly terminal view from Main. I wish this had been considered when Devon was creating the expansion or when P180 was being planned, but it wasn't. It wasn't even something I thought about until I saw the picture posted earlier, and as was pointed out several times, I look at almost every development with a critical eye. Now I have another item to add to my JTF development approval scale :)

I think you should see it in person next time you're up here, you won't find it so bad. The Hudson thing is a mess right now, like I said in another thread, I hope the P180 work wraps up in the next ten years, and the people in charge should all be fired imo. That said - I hope they get the street-level retail in along Hudson before you see it, otherwise you'll have to mentally factor in potential when you check it out.

I disagree that anything wasn't so bad. While we still had a good chance to do so, we definitely should have reconnected Main while we could have. But that just goes to show that the downtown club has yet to fully comprehend what was so bad about our actions in the urban renewal era. Main should have been extended, it is after all MAIN STREET, but we at least have a few fragments of our original MAIN STREET left over on the Preftakes block that can be preserved. Devon, for its part (COTPA probably wouldn't have let them demolish the ironically named Galleria Garage anyway), did the absolute best it could.

Old plaques will have a new home in the new Bicentennial Park:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bicentennial61412a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bicentennial61412b.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bicentennial61412c.jpg