View Full Version : DOD Asks: How Would You Feel Showering With Gays?



Bunty
07-11-2010, 03:48 PM
For me personally, I wouldn't have to worry about anything, because naked, barrel chested, looking bad, in shape or not, I'm not sexually attractive to gay man, woman, or beast.

FROM: http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...itary/19548214

DOD Asks: How Would You Feel Showering With Gays?
By Andrea Stone

WASHINGTON (July 9) -- The Pentagon wants to know if service members would attend military social functions with same-sex couples, whether they would be uncomfortable sharing a tent or shower with gay co-workers, and how their families would feel if they served in units that included gay men and lesbians.

Those are just some of the questions in a confidential survey sent to 400,000 active-duty and reserve troops this week as part of an effort to gauge reactions in the ranks if the military lifts its "don't ask, don't tell" policy that has kept gay and lesbian troops in the closet for the last 17 years.

Most of the survey (PDF), which went out Wednesday and was to have been kept under wraps, was leaked by an unidentified service member to the Palm Center, which shared it with AOL News and other media outlets. Some gay advocacy groups advised closeted troops not to answer the questionnaire in case they inadvertently outed themselves.

Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith confirmed that the 32 pages of leaked questions were an "authentic portion of the survey, but it isn't the complete version." She said the Defense Department would not formally release the full questionnaire.

On Thursday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said it was important to get all views on the issue and noted that not all gay rights groups opposed participation. "I strongly encourage gays and lesbians in the military to fill out these forms," he told reporters. He said the survey is being carried out to protect the confidentiality of those who take part. He noted that it was his decision to double the size of the survey sample from original plans because he "wanted a significant percentage of the force to have the opportunity to offer their views on this."

The $4.5 million survey is being conducted by a private contractor, Rockville, Md.-based Westat, which has experience surveying military communities. The questions use the often politically loaded words "gay," "lesbian" and "homosexual" interchangeably. Gay rights advocates reject the latter term as a clinical put-down used almost exclusively by opponents of lifting the current policy. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell acknowledged to reporters at a hastily arranged news briefing this afternoon that "homosexual" is a "loaded" term but said it was used in just seven yes-or-no questions and as part of the law is "a term at least some portion of our force is most familiar with."

Aaron Belkin, director of the Palm Center, a research institute at the University of California, Santa Barbara, that focuses on gender, sexuality and the military, said he was glad the Pentagon was "starting to educate the troops about what it will look like when gays can serve openly." Still, he said, "it's problematic to start asking questions like this about a minority group. What if you started asking service members if they would take orders from a Baptist officer? Or would you be OK living next to a Chinese family or something like that?"

He said such questions suggest that gays are "second-class citizens, and that signal undermines the very transition they're trying to manage" to meet President Barack Obama's call to end the current policy. He and other gay rights advocates who saw the questions said many of them are inappropriate.

Morrell spoke to reporters after the survey was leaked to counter what he said were "inflammatory in the worst case and misleading in the best case" accounts of its contents. He said charges by gay rights advocates that the survey is biased are "nonsense" and said it is "the only mechanism to to get a scientific gauge" of attitudes and potential challenges to repealing the law.

The spokesman rejected suggestions by reporters that questions about living quarters and bathing facilities were homophobic by their very nature, saying, "We would not be doing as comprehensive a job it we did not delve into the issues around privacy concerns." But when asked if it would be legal to build separate living quarters for gay troops, Morrell said it would be "premature to speculate what may be required."

The survey queries respondents on general issues like unit performance, teamwork and morale. One question asks troops to rate members of their unit on how much they "pull together to perform as a team" and whether those "in my immediate unit trust each other" and "really care about each other."

The survey delves into areas not typically deemed relevant to combat. "How important is it for unit members to socialize together off-duty?" it asks, also wanting to know how often co-workers get together during off hours.

It asks if respondents have ever worked with a leader or "coworker you believed to be homosexual" and asks them to rate the impact on the unit's ability to work together, on morale and on performance. Separate questions deal with those who have served with suspected gays in combat.

Two-thirds of the survey deals directly with the "don't ask, don't ask" policy and the perceived repercussions if it is repealed. It asks troops to rank how easy or difficult it will be for leadership to implement the policy and, among other things, "Hold Service members to the high standards of military personal conduct regardless of their sexual orientation?" "Make sure all Service members are treated with respect by their coworkers?" and "Enforce good order and discipline?"

Among the multiple-choice questions:
"If Don't Ask, Don't Tell is repealed and a gay or lesbian Service member attended a military social function with a same-sex partner, which are you most likely to do?" Among the choices: "Continue to attend military social functions," "Stop bringing my spouse, significant other or other family members with me to military social functions" and "Stop attending military social functions."

"If Don't Ask, Don't Tell is repealed and you are assigned to share a room, berth or field tent with someone you believe to be a gay or lesbian Service member, which are you most likely to do?" Among the choices: "Take no action," "Discuss how we expect each other to behave and conduct ourselves while sharing a room, berth or field tent," "Talk to a chaplain, mentor, or leader about how to handle the situation" and "Talk to a leader to see if I have other options."

In a question asking "the top THREE factors that enable you to fulfill your mission during combat?" the choices include: "Unit morale," "Similar moral values among unit members," "Having only heterosexual members in the unit," "Diversity among unit members" and "Trust among unit members."

The last question, after asking demographic questions on gender, race, age and rank: "Do you have any family members, friends or acquaintances who are gay or lesbian, or whom you believe to be gay or lesbian?" Polls have shown those who have a friend, family member or acquaintance who is gay are more likely to support gay rights.

"Surveying the troops is unprecedented," said Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. "It did not happen in 1948 when President Truman ended segregation, and it did not happen in 1976 when the service academies opened to women. Even when the military placed women on ships at sea, the Pentagon did not turn to a survey on how to bring about that cultural change."

mugofbeer
07-11-2010, 05:43 PM
Why would it matter unless the person was trying to hit on you? If he is or does, tell him not to. Big deal.

ljbab728
07-11-2010, 10:54 PM
For real? The most disturbing thing about this story is the amount of taxpayer dollars DOD is spending on this issue.

Agreed. I can't imagine why it would cost that much money just to conduct a simple survey of a specific group of people.

PennyQuilts
07-12-2010, 05:54 AM
Well, even if they weren't hitting on me, I wouldn't want to shower with bunch of guys. I'm just saying.

Lord Helmet
07-12-2010, 05:09 PM
When I lived in OKC I had a membership to the Downtown YMCA. There was at least one regular there that was gay. (He was a friend of my wife's from several years ago). I had no problem showering at the same time as him. I would imagine quite a few of the other folks that were there would have been pissed though.

Lauri101
07-17-2010, 06:28 PM
Anyone who has ever been in the military has already showered with a gay or lesbian. You just didn't know it, but I know from my own experience as well as my daughter's that the troops know and most don't care.

What matters is if your fellow soldier/airman/marine/seaman has your back in battle and otherwise. I would be willing to bet real money that the military members who protest are in the minority. Just sayin', as a veteran and Army mom.

PennyQuilts
07-18-2010, 09:47 AM
Anyone who has ever been in the military has already showered with a gay or lesbian. You just didn't know it, but I know from my own experience as well as my daughter's that the troops know and most don't care.

Well, for what it is worth, I couldn't care less about showering with someone who is lesbian. But I still don't want to shower with strange men, gay or otherwise. For me, it is not about sexual orientation - it is about ingrained modesty from the time I was little. A woman thing, for many. As near as I can tell, most men have no shame or modesty even if we all wish they did. <vbg>

That being said, lesbians seem to be much less hated and feared by gay men. I can't explain it, but have seen it. Don't know if that factors into it.

Lauri101
07-18-2010, 01:26 PM
Well, for what it is worth, I couldn't care less about showering with someone who is lesbian. But I still don't want to shower with strange men, gay or otherwise. For me, it is not about sexual orientation - it is about ingrained modesty from the time I was little. A woman thing, for many. As near as I can tell, most men have no shame or modesty even if we all wish they did. <vbg>

That being said, lesbians seem to be much less hated and feared by gay men. I can't explain it, but have seen it. Don't know if that factors into it.

Agreed, on all counts. As far as the modesty - I don't even want my cats to see me naked anymore! (ebg)

PennyQuilts
07-18-2010, 01:30 PM
Agreed, on all counts. As far as the modesty - I don't even want my cats to see me naked anymore! (ebg)

I feel your pain. I have gone from a sense of modesty to a fear that someone will either kill me or kill themselves to stop the horror.

Lauri101
07-18-2010, 01:45 PM
LMBO - oh yes! When I walked into the bedroom naked and my husband said "Aren't you going to iron that dress?", I knew it was time to stay covered forever!