View Full Version : Commentary by Blair Humphreys: Walk this way



urbanity
06-16-2010, 01:04 PM
Walk this way | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/p/12738/a/6507/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=LwBEAGUAZgBhAHUAbAB0AC4AYQB zAHAAeAAslashAHAAPQAxADIANwAzADgA)

Spartan
06-16-2010, 10:10 PM
That's awesome for Blair. Great column. Sanity!

I can only hope someday to make as much sense.

Larry OKC
06-17-2010, 01:34 AM
Was preparred for a "we need the Boulevard!" but towards the end


What needs to be done to make this happen? We should start by focusing our effort and attention on existing streets with the most potential: Broadway, Walker, Park and Sheridan in Bricktown. We also need an improved understanding of what a walkable street should be. It certainly doesn’t include surface parking lots, blank walls and reflective glass, drive-throughs, dead plazas and overgrown lots. These elements, where they exist, should be aggressively targeted for removal or modification.

It all sounds great in theory and am sure some argument could be made that is what the Mayor has in mind with the Boulevard. But the consensus in these threads seems to be that

1) the Boulevard isn't needed (we already have enough streets, alluded to in Blair's article). Focus what is planned for the Boulevard to existing street(s)

2) The Boulevard isn't going to happen (at least not in the sense it has been described). Not my conclusion, but the experts with the Urban Land Institute seemed to say the same thing.

3) While promised by ODOT and Gov. Henry, the Boulevard is unfunded and not on ODOT's 8 year plan. Found it hilarious that Gov. Henry voiced is continued support to get the Boulevard funded/built when he is out of office at the beginning of the year.

betts
06-17-2010, 07:07 AM
Actually, I was thinking the opposite, Larry. I was thinking that if the Boulevard doesn't have too many lanes of traffic (imperative) that it could be the street everyone wants to walk on. Reading this article, that's the first thing I thought of and it was the first time the boulevard sounded like something functional to me.

To walk, you have to have places to go that are close together. For most people, that is food, shopping, attractions. If you don't live near the walking area, there has to be convenient parking in close proximity. Bricktown comes the closest to achieving this, but without significant retail, most people are walking from their car to one place or two. You can currently walk to a restaurant and then the movies or to bowling or the Ford Center, and people are doing this. I see a lot of people walking around Bricktown. To stroll, you need to have things worth looking at. You pretty much have to have retail for window shopping at street level. And so again, in my mind, we get back to retail. And more and more, I think the city needs to focus on promoting retail in some way, via tax credits, working with developers to create a retail cluster either in Bricktown or downtown.

Larry OKC
06-17-2010, 07:18 AM
Unless I missed it he never mentioned the Boulevard? According to the ULI folks, one challenge to what the Mayor is wanting is that you need retail on both sides of the street and where they have it going, it is only on one side. The way downtown retail used to be and in a way (self described) that is the feel they are going for with Classen Curve. If you only have mixed use development etc on one side, does it really matter how many lanes of traffic there are? You aren't interacting with the traffic. The ULI folks agree with you that it needs to be fewer lanes etc. Oddly they didn't suggest realigning it though.

betts
06-17-2010, 10:27 PM
Classen Curve needs to be one full block deeper lengthwise for it to feel like anything but an enclosed strip mall, IMO. I'm hoping Aubrey is buying houses as they come up for sale on the backside of the Curve.

The Boulevard was never mentioned in Blair's article. It just popped into my head while I was reading it, because I was thinking about how, without heavy traffic and lots of lanes, it could seem like a park that has destinations on both ends: the Central Park on one and Bricktown on the other, with the option to hop a trolley at any time. That might make it a tempting walk. But, with heavy traffic it will be anything but inviting.

Doug Loudenback
06-17-2010, 11:03 PM
Unless I missed it he never mentioned the Boulevard?
But, like Betts, it appears to have popped into your own thinking, as well ...

1) the Boulevard isn't needed (we already have enough streets, alluded to in Blair's article)
Just trying to keep this conversation "fair and balanced."

Great job, Blair, on the article.

Larry OKC
06-18-2010, 12:15 AM
never mind

Kerry
06-18-2010, 07:26 AM
Isn't the 180 Project supposed to lay the ground work for this by returning streets to two-way, providing more on-street parking, and making intersections safer to cross - plus making the area more pleasing to the eye.

Larry OKC
06-19-2010, 03:09 AM
Short answer is Yes, No, No and Yes.

I absolutely HATE one way streets and avoid many a downtown because of them (always seem to be going the wrong way and you have to drive blocks out of your way to correct every time.

Longer answer...Seems I recall reading a few years ago that 2-way streets decreased parking and if there is a perceived parking problem now, imagine what it will be like after 180, Seems it would be safer for pedestrians with one way (that way you only have to be on the look out for cars in one direction).

Spartan
06-19-2010, 11:16 AM
I am totally all for spending every dime we would have spent on the boulevard instead on the development of our existing strong corridors. Unfortunately that currently amounts to $0.

Oh and Kerry--the money for returning all the streets to a two-way concept was actually in the GO Bond, which they might be adding to Project 180.

dismayed
06-19-2010, 11:25 AM
I really like this article. One comment that I would make, and I am sure I am opening myself up for attack, but I really miss NW 63rd east of Western Ave. prior to everything being demolished for corporate expansion. I think back to that area and to this day I still believe that was one of the few places in this city that had some real heart and soul. It was great seeing all the restaurants with outdoor seating and quirky little shops. I agree that it could have been improved upon, and it probably should have been. Unfortunately instead we allowed the entire area to be razed. If there was one part of town that had some chance of becoming Utica Square (Tulsa) or something like that, I always felt that 63rd was it. It was an opportunity squandered.

I see the other thread going on strong about SandRidge and this very type of thing occurring again, and although a bit more optimistic that we are thinking about sustainability and things like that now the area SandRidge is thinking about moving into is completely blighted and nothing like the 63rd area we let slip away. To me it is almost the right sentiment at the wrong time.

Larry OKC
06-20-2010, 01:42 AM
Please don't consider this an attack, but haven't most of the businesses that were razed relocated in the general area? Except for those that decided to take the money and retire or pursue other interests.

Spartan
06-20-2010, 11:17 AM
Yeah, they all got extremely lucrative buyouts. The reason Chesapeake wanted to move quickly on Nichols Hills Plaza was to seamlessly relocate many of those businesses to the Plaza. Too bad that didn't happen.. (and I assume they've given up on NHP).

dismayed
06-20-2010, 04:03 PM
I agree, it was good for them, and most of those businesses did reopen elsewhere. I just feel that there was a certain... I don't know, "critical mass" in that area that has since been lost.

Spartan
06-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Didn't a lot of the critical mass move to Western Ave or Classen Curve (lol)?

dismayed
06-20-2010, 04:34 PM
I don't know that Western is any more than it was, unless we are now counting Sonics as an icon of great urban development, but I agree the Curve does seem to be taking off. I have to admit that I am not a great fan of the Curve though for a number of reasons, but I do hope that I'm wrong and it will end up being the type of retail that the city needs. We are certainly off to a good start in that area.

dismayed
06-20-2010, 04:38 PM
Actually, I know what bothers me about it. Every single time someone has a great idea for this city, every time a world-renowned developer or a local business decides they have the answer to OKC's urban issues... it always involves us putting all our faith in them and allowing them to destroy what's already there. I guess for those that believe that there is nothing of worth in this city and it needs to be knocked down and we need to start over then this is a fantastic approach. Personally I think that no matter how great the architect is whenever you do that you end up with exactly what we always end up getting... sort of a Disneyfied corporate cookie-cuttered-landscaped Tim Burtoneque nightmare.

Larry OKC
06-20-2010, 10:14 PM
"sort of a Disneyfied corporate cookie-cuttered-landscaped Tim Burtoneque nightmare."

Don't quite agree with the conclusion but love the way you said it...LOL

dismayed
06-22-2010, 07:35 PM
I admit that may have been a bit overstated. :-)

flintysooner
06-23-2010, 08:13 AM
Actually, I know what bothers me about it. Every single time someone has a great idea for this city, every time a world-renowned developer or a local business decides they have the answer to OKC's urban issues... it always involves us putting all our faith in them and allowing them to destroy what's already there. I guess for those that believe that there is nothing of worth in this city and it needs to be knocked down and we need to start over then this is a fantastic approach. Personally I think that no matter how great the architect is whenever you do that you end up with exactly what we always end up getting... sort of a Disneyfied corporate cookie-cuttered-landscaped Tim Burtoneque nightmare.I largely agree with this. Organic development seems to me better over time rather than some huge master plan imposed idea.

On the other hand when you want to recover from the huge master plan imposed debacle there is nothing wrong with recognizing what happened and trying to do things that foster new organic development. And one of the things that should be helped rather than hindered is the idea of mixed use and diversity of owners.