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metro
06-16-2010, 12:02 PM
Found this cool new tool/feature Forbes recently launched. You can click on any county in the country and see the in and out migration patterns and where people are moving from and to. Below I did Oklahoma County. The data is from 2008. The black lines are inward migration and red is outward migration.

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Oklahoma_county_migration.JPG



http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/04/migration-moving-wealthy-interactive-counties-map.html

PennyQuilts
06-16-2010, 01:05 PM
Very cool site. thanks.

Kerry
06-16-2010, 01:13 PM
If you select a county and then follow the line to the county on the other end it will tell you how many people moved and the average income of the people moving. I wonder how they know this?

Holy cow - take a look at California. Counties north of Sacramento all stay on the west coast (other California counties, Oregon and Washinton). South of Sacramento every county is solid red and fleeing to all parts of the country.

adaniel
06-16-2010, 01:43 PM
Agreed kerry. Clicking on LA County unleashed a slew of red lines going across my computer screen. Funny to think that as recently as the 1980's that county was one of the fastest growing in the nation.

Here's some interesting facts:

The movement from Tulsa County to OK County is +102 net for OK County.

Between OK County and LA County, it is a net +215 for OK County

I would think that OK County draws a lot from rural parts of the state, and thats true except for some notable exceptions. Obviously there's something people in OKC see in Guymon and Poteau because OK County has a net of -24 and -9 for Leflore and Texas county respectively. To each his own, I guess.

This is a really good find. I've already wasted a half hour on this at work!

CO-To-OKC
06-16-2010, 03:07 PM
Good find. It's funny to see how many people are fleeing southern California.

Dustin
06-16-2010, 03:30 PM
This is so cool! Nuttin but red in So Cal! lol

Debzkidz
06-16-2010, 03:37 PM
That is so cool!

pickles
06-16-2010, 03:41 PM
Obviously there's something people in OKC see in Guymon and Poteau because OK County has a net of -24 and -9 for Leflore and Texas county respectively. To each his own, I guess.

Corporate farms in the Panhandle and large chicken farms in eastern OK draw laborers not just from the surrounding area but from the entire region. The numbers are likely a result of okc area latinos heading to both locations for work.

mheaton76
06-16-2010, 03:41 PM
I saw this earlier on Forbes - fascinating. It's good to note all of the data is from 2008, and it's exclusively from IRS records, so probably very accurate.

Spartan
06-16-2010, 05:00 PM
Looks like we're loosing a lot to the Pacific NW. That should be a lesson in urban planning...

SkyWestOKC
06-16-2010, 05:07 PM
But we're also gaining a lot from California. It most likely has less to do with urban planning as it does with jobs. When I get my aircraft maintenance license in a few years I will be moving where the jobs are, not what the urban density looks like. Anywhere from Memphis, Atlanta, Salt Lake City, etc. or other large regional jet maintenance bases is where I am destined. Same thing with others, the Seattle area has a huge engineering and tech industry. People migrate where the jobs that fit their interest are, urban settings most likely are not a decision, or a big part of the decision rather.

Spartan
06-16-2010, 10:13 PM
I think economic opportunities are surprisingly even. There are a TON of people that end up in bizarre cities for their job, despite that so many people might leave that city for lack of good jobs. I think quality of life is going to be an increasing factor, whereas it certainly hasn't in the past. I just think that the trend of the future is for the creative class to pick and choose what cities they will live in and what cities they are not interested in.

YeahIKnow
06-16-2010, 10:30 PM
Agreed kerry. Clicking on LA County unleashed a slew of red lines going across my computer screen. Funny to think that as recently as the 1980's that county was one of the fastest growing in the nation.


LA County does have some inward migration still happening. I guess some people still dream of being rock and/or movie stars. Want to check out a city with virtually no inward migration? Check out Detroit. Sad really.

stlokc
06-16-2010, 10:46 PM
I have to agree with Spartan. In the future, many more jobs will be "mobile." there was an excellent article in a recent issue of The Economist" (fantastic magazine, by the way) that highlighted Boise, Idaho. Boise's population has doubled in 20 years, due largely to out-migration from expensive California cities as knowledge workers realized they need only a laptop and can live in a town that fits what they want from a lifestyle perspective. This can be good news for OKC if we can continue to build on our quality of life and foster a network of those in the "creative class." Easier said than done. But I have been to Boise and despite it's beautiful environs, there's nothing there that can't be duplicated on the Plains.

Spartan
06-16-2010, 10:56 PM
Well I've always understood part of Boise's advantage to actually be its corporate base, or former corporate base, and having Boise State U right near downtown. Kind of like a mini Austin-type setting..

stlokc
06-16-2010, 11:04 PM
Spartan-You are correct about Boise's corporate base. I would liken them to a slightly smaller Omaha in that regard, for whatever reason they have been able to foster this presence, probably due to - say it with me - a high quality of life. Having said that, OKC, by it's sheer size, does provide more corporate opportunity. However it's -say it with me -too tied to one industry. But that's another thread. The Austin comparison is probably apt. Goes to show that in this century, OKC's competition will be coming at us from above and below, from Dallas and Omaha, Kansas City and Boise. Size is ultimately not the becall end all of whether we will be successful.

Larry OKC
06-17-2010, 12:55 AM
I know this is going to come as a shock to many of you but I just don't buy into the whole nebulous, quality-of-life, as a major factor for most people. MAYBE in great economic times or in certain job categories, one can pick and choose. But in regular economic realities, you go where the work is. If your employer gives you a choice between being transferred to 1 of 3 cities, then yes, it can come into play. But it has been my experience, that the only option most employers give you is, you are being transferred to "X" or you can start looking for another job.

stlokc
06-17-2010, 06:45 AM
Larry-It depends on the type of job and type of industry that you are talking about. If you are a petroleum engineer or a bond trader or an aircraft maintenance worker or something like that, than you are correct. What Spartan and I are talking about is the entrepreneurial group who are choosing to either start their own businesses or work in fields that need not be tied to a specific location. I think of architects, communications professionals, consultants, contract workers. I have a number of friends that no longer go into an office per se, but work from hone, for themselves or for several employers, hopping planes and doing video conferenc calls. They can do that from St. Louis or OKC or Boise or the Florida keys. Feels like that is the future, in some industries at least.

Larry OKC
06-17-2010, 07:07 AM
stlokc: Of those 4 choices, which do you think the people you are talking about would choose and why?

discloser: I am a native Okie, (live across the street from the hospital where I was born) and lived in many different states and cities. Vacationed in 46 of the lower 48. Moved back here in my college years and will most likely live here the rest of my life. it is "home".

stlokc
06-17-2010, 07:17 AM
Larry- Many of the ones I know have chosen St. Louis, largely fir family reasons, because it is their "home." I do know a guy who works for IBM from a small town in northern Michigan because he lives Northern Michigan. As to which they will choose, my point exactly is that they will choose what they like. If they like the mountains, they'll choose the mountains, if they love dry heat, they may choose Arizona. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Give them a reason to love OKC. I'll also freely admit that this may only apply to 5 or 10 percent of the population, but that 5 or 10 percent who make an active choice to live in the place they love are naturally going to be engaged and interested in that place they have chosen, instead of muddling along in a place they happen to have landed. That seems convoluted, forgive me.

stlokc
06-17-2010, 07:18 AM
Sorry for "fir" and "lived" when I meant "loved." Damn Iphone!

PennyQuilts
06-17-2010, 07:25 AM
Sorry for "fir" and "lived" when I meant "loved." Damn Iphone!

You can edit it for a short time.

Larry OKC
06-17-2010, 07:34 AM
Not convoluted at all, what you are saying seems to support what I am saying too. And I understand that we are talking about our own experiences ("your mileage may vary") and nothing scientific about it at all. The reasons seem to boil down to family or geographical features (oceans, mountains, desert etc).

If they don't have family here, why would they chose OKC?

We don't have many of the geographical features, so why OKC?

What would you suggest that OKC get that would make it unique and stand out (give them a reason to love OKC). Seems we are focusing on things so OKC will be just like other cities. Some of the stuff we are doing gives people less reasons to hate us I suppose, but we need something that makes OKC at the top of the list of choices. I honestly don't know what that is, just asking for thoughts.

Spartan, correct me if I am recalling this incorrectly, but even you strongly supported MAPS 3, didn't you say you probably will NOT be moving back to OKC after you get your degree? What are your reasons for not doing so?

stlokc
06-17-2010, 07:48 AM
OKC is not blessed with geographic features, which is why the city has been working so hard in the last 15 years or so, with the MAPS initiatives, to make it a city where people who have a choice actually want to live. As for what I personally would like to see, well, I have to go to work (in an office, LOL) and don't have a lot of time to expound. There are lots of threads like that on this board. Seems like a new one everyday!

metro
06-17-2010, 08:58 AM
Corporate farms in the Panhandle and large chicken farms in eastern OK draw laborers not just from the surrounding area but from the entire region. The numbers are likely a result of okc area latinos heading to both locations for work.

Close, Hispanics and Latinos are actually two different things, not every Hispanic is a Latino, but every Latino is Hispanic. Hispanic is the broad term for everyone. Anyhow, yes, Enid and Guymon are actually booming with Hispanics recently. I've heard through reputable Hispanic sources that Enid is one of the fastest growing Hispanic populations in the country (percentage wise). They even recently launched their own Spanish newspaper, Impacto Portales Spanish Gazette which covers Enid and Western Oklahoma.


I have to agree with Spartan. In the future, many more jobs will be "mobile." there was an excellent article in a recent issue of The Economist" (fantastic magazine, by the way) that highlighted Boise, Idaho. Boise's population has doubled in 20 years, due largely to out-migration from expensive California cities as knowledge workers realized they need only a laptop and can live in a town that fits what they want from a lifestyle perspective. This can be good news for OKC if we can continue to build on our quality of life and foster a network of those in the "creative class." Easier said than done. But I have been to Boise and despite it's beautiful environs, there's nothing there that can't be duplicated on the Plains.

If you're a futurist, you'd believe machines will do the work in the future, until we hit the Singularity, and we can no longer predict how the machines will react or how technology/humanity will advance. If Moore's law continues, it should happen between 2025-2040.

Platemaker
06-17-2010, 09:24 AM
We don't have many of the geographical features, so why OKC?

I can't even begin to tell you how much I hate hearing this while we are at the crossroads of the most diverse terrain in the US... sigh.

Take a day trip folks.

progressiveboy
06-17-2010, 10:03 AM
OKC is not blessed with geographic features, which is why the city has been working so hard in the last 15 years or so, with the MAPS initiatives, to make it a city where people who have a choice actually want to live. As for what I personally would like to see, well, I have to go to work (in an office, LOL) and don't have a lot of time to expound. There are lots of threads like that on this board. Seems like a new one everyday!Well, another example would be neither is Dallas/Fort Worth for that matter. Dallas is not blessed to have geographical features such as mountains, hills, oceans, beaches etc...but it is one of the top 10 cities in population. OKC is far more developed in their river with world class rowing exhibits, boathouses etc..The Trinity River in Dallas is still not developed and they are always finding abandoned cars, tires, trash even dead bodies. The reason Dallas is successful is due to it is home to 31 Fortune 500 companies, ex: Frito Lay, Exxon, AT&T, Flour, Dr.Pepper/7up etc...it is also a city with endless things to see and do, fine restaurants, world renowed shopping ex: Highland Park Village, Northpark, Galleria. It is a haven for young professionals who are ambitious and want to be successful. In conclusion, a city offers different things to different people. Oklahoma is touted as having 11 different ecosystems all within relative close proximity to the OKC area, so this should not even be a debate about geographical features.

progressiveboy
06-17-2010, 10:06 AM
I can't even begin to tell you how much I hate hearing this while we are at the crossroads of the most diverse terrain in the US... sigh.

Take a day trip folks. Agree! Oklahoma is home to 11 different ecosystems. There really is a diverse range of scenery in OK. It is hardly barren and flat like most ignorant people choose to believe.

BG918
06-17-2010, 10:16 AM
Well, another example would be neither is Dallas/Fort Worth for that matter. Dallas is not blessed to have geographical features such as mountains, hills, oceans, beaches etc...but it is one of the top 10 cities in population. OKC is far more developed in their river with world class rowing exhibits, boathouses etc..The Trinity River in Dallas is still not developed and they are always finding abandoned cars, tires, trash even dead bodies. The reason Dallas is successful is due to it is home to 31 Fortune 500 companies, ex: Frito Lay, Exxon, AT&T, Flour, Dr.Pepper/7up etc...it is also a city with endless things to see and do, fine restaurants, world renowed shopping ex: Highland Park Village, Northpark, Galleria. It is a haven for young professionals who are ambitious and want to be successful. In conclusion, a city offers different things to different people. Oklahoma is touted as having 11 different ecosystems all within relative close proximity to the OKC area, so this should not even be a debate about geographical features.


Exactly look no further than Dallas or Atlanta to see inland cities with no major geographical features such as ocean or mountains to see that such cities can, and are, very successful. OKC has the Ozarks/Boston/Ouachita mountains which make up the largest highlands area between the Rockies and Appalachians within a 3-4 hour drive to the east. This area is still unknown to many people nationally, and even locally, which is nice in a way because it's still unspoiled in many parts but also less developed in the way of tourist amenities. The hiking is fantastic and there are several rivers, including some in the eastern and southeastern parts of Oklahoma, that are great for kayaking/rafting which the majority of inland cities do not have such close access.

Eastern Oklahoma is beautiful terrain, hills everywhere, numerous lakes, lush greenery from spring until fall, and it's all just outside OKC. One of the most unique things about OKC is that it's located in the transition zone between the forests/hills to the east and the flat grasslands/farmland to the west.

Look no further than Omaha, Des Moines, Indianapolis, Columbus, Minneapolis, etc. to see where flat inland cities can be successful. It just takes more work than somewhere like Denver or Seattle..

okcpulse
06-17-2010, 10:19 AM
We don't have many of the geographical features, so why OKC?



Then in that case, Why Dallas-Ft. Worth? What geographical features do they have that make 6.7 million people call the metroplex home? Economics and amenities aside, what are their geographical features?

Spartan
06-17-2010, 10:51 AM
Spartan, correct me if I am recalling this incorrectly, but even you strongly supported MAPS 3, didn't you say you probably will NOT be moving back to OKC after you get your degree? What are your reasons for not doing so?

Well, the fact of the matter is that I am an architecture student, and specializing in environmental design at that. Which gives me ample opportunities in the NW compared to the rather limited landscape in Oklahoma for LEED architecture..especially considering I would have to intern at a firm that is large enough and specialized enough to actually get those kinds of projects. Not only is hiring an architect in general a luxury but so is such a specialization, so those kinds of jobs typically amass in cities that have a quality of life that attracts people who can afford such a luxury. It's also a profession that is tied directly to a city's commitment to quality of life..without the quality of life emphasis the NW has, there wouldn't be the opportunities for environmental design or other design practices that you see all over Portland and Seattle and both Vancouvers, along with other places up there.

pickles
06-17-2010, 02:13 PM
Close, Hispanics and Latinos are actually two different things, not every Hispanic is a Latino, but every Latino is Hispanic. Hispanic is the broad term for everyone. Anyhow, yes, Enid and Guymon are actually booming with Hispanics recently. I've heard through reputable Hispanic sources that Enid is one of the fastest growing Hispanic populations in the country (percentage wise). They even recently launched their own Spanish newspaper, Impacto Portales Spanish Gazette which covers Enid and Western Oklahoma.

To what am I close, and to what in my post are you referring with your first two sentences? It has nothing to do with the substance of what I'd written, and I'm well aware of the distinction in terminology.

PennyQuilts
06-17-2010, 03:12 PM
I can't even begin to tell you how much I hate hearing this while we are at the crossroads of the most diverse terrain in the US... sigh.

Take a day trip folks.

Amen - thanks!

Larry OKC
06-19-2010, 04:20 AM
I can't even begin to tell you how much I hate hearing this while we are at the crossroads of the most diverse terrain in the US... sigh.

Take a day trip folks.


...Oklahoma is touted as having 11 different ecosystems all within relative close proximity to the OKC area, so this should not even be a debate about geographical features.


Agree! Oklahoma is home to 11 different ecosystems. There really is a diverse range of scenery in OK. It is hardly barren and flat like most ignorant people choose to believe.


I knew this was going to come up, but I was talking about OKLAHOMA CITY not having the geographic features, not the whole state.

But even when talking about the whole state, do we have oceans? No. (But supposedly we have more shoreline than the east/west coasts combined).

Specifically, in OKC, do we have mountains (think Rockies, Ozarks or Blue Ridge type). No. You have to drive a bit for that. If you want mountains or nice rolling hills, either head up to Tulsa or South to the Ardmore area.

Maybe it is a dessert climate you want. Can that be found in OKC? Again, No.

Point is if geographic features are what attracts you, there are plenty of choices available right there where a city already exists. Want the Rockie Mountain experience, live in Denver or the like. Not someplace where you have to drive a couple of hours to get to. One of the main things I keep hearing people complain about is that OKC is too spread out. We are a car based society...need to condense to the core etc etc etc. Now you are suggesting move to OKC, we are only an "X" mile/hour drive from "_______". There seems to be a disconnect there.

Again, my question is what about OKC would make people actually WANT to move here? (Family and geography aside).

MAPS was mentioned. What specific original MAPS projects would you say have made someone move OKC to the top of their wish list?

The Canal? (only if they have never been to San Antonio's Riverwalk).

The Ballpark? While one of the better minor league parks in the country, unless you are a huge minor league fan....

Civic Center? Not much unique about it that can't be found in just about any other major city.

Cox Convention Center? After spending $66M in improvements. So attractive we are ditching it for a new one.

Fairgrounds? Seriously, fairgrounds?? Probably not

Downtown Library? Again, can be found just about everywhere else. What makes it unique?

Oklahoma River? This probably has the greatest potential to being something unique but to a splinter group. May have something here with the designation as an Olympic training sight. There is the planned kayaking facility and while relatively unique is several years away.

Trolleys? A novelty that other cities have as well. If trolleys are your thing.

Now I am NOT saying that these things haven't made some natives who live here maybe think about staying instead of moving elsewhere (but there is always going to be the element that think the grass is greener elsewhere). What I am asking, have we even begun to improve OKC to the point that someone in Dallas, LA, New York, Chicago, Denver, Seattle etc etc etc, would say "I think I will move to OKC"

Maybe it is MAPS for Kids? Several brand new schools and at least $1M in renovations to the remaining ones. Sounds great on the surface (nothing against bright shiny new things) but what is going on inside those schools? Overall the track record isn't good and while some test scores are up, the gains are marginal at best. In the past 8 years, we have spent something close to a Billion on our schools and where are the results? We have a long way to go before someone says "OKC has a great school system, lets move there!"

Think someone mentioned the Thunder. While being an NBA city might not cross OKC off anyone's list, the Thunder doesn't have the history to have a large fanbase elsewhere in the country. Yet. That is something that might come in time. Do you know anyone who has decided to move to OKC because of the Thunder? Especially from out of state (and in close proximity to other NBA teams that they are more likely to be a fan)?

Maybe its the MAPS 3 projects? Again, which ones are going to make OKC unique and make someone say "I am going to move to OKC"?



Yes, other geographically similar cities exist (as mentioned) but what do those cities have that OKC doesn't have (and probably is not going to have within our lifetimes) that causes someone to say "I want to live in "__________"? How do we get there? At what cost?

As I said, I am a native Okie and of OKC. My girlfriend in Florida had this picture in her mind that the entire state of Oklahoma was akin to the 3rd Back to the Future movie, where they are in the old west. That Oklahoma didn't have any trees (only cactus) etc. That it was all cowboys and Indians (and the Indians all lived in wigwams).

Chicken In The Rough
06-19-2010, 05:14 AM
...but every Latino is Hispanic.

There are 180 million Brazilians who might disagree.

Oil Capital
06-19-2010, 06:48 AM
Looks like we're loosing a lot to the Pacific NW. That should be a lesson in urban planning...

Yeah that net loss of 44 people to the combined states of Oregon and Washington speaks volumes.:dizzy:

Oil Capital
06-19-2010, 06:50 AM
I think economic opportunities are surprisingly even. There are a TON of people that end up in bizarre cities for their job, despite that so many people might leave that city for lack of good jobs. I think quality of life is going to be an increasing factor, whereas it certainly hasn't in the past. I just think that the trend of the future is for the creative class to pick and choose what cities they will live in and what cities they are not interested in.

Richard Florida has been peddling that same nonsense for many years. The problem is, reality has never quite reflected his theory (to put it nicely).

PennyQuilts
06-19-2010, 07:02 AM
Just thought I'd mention that Denver and Portland don't have mountains, either - you have to drive to them. And guess what, you have to drive to the shore from Washington DC. Chicago has a lake, granted. Houston has a port but isn't on an ocean or a gulf. I was born there and ne'r a beach in sight. Salt Lake? Ski slopes are a drive away. Miami has water but is a pit.

And the Wichita Mountains are an hour and 15 minutes from my OKC house if you want desert.

Larry OKC
06-19-2010, 07:13 AM
Well, the fact of the matter is that I am an architecture student, and specializing in environmental design at that. Which gives me ample opportunities in the NW compared to the rather limited landscape in Oklahoma for LEED architecture..especially considering I would have to intern at a firm that is large enough and specialized enough to actually get those kinds of projects. Not only is hiring an architect in general a luxury but so is such a specialization, so those kinds of jobs typically amass in cities that have a quality of life that attracts people who can afford such a luxury. It's also a profession that is tied directly to a city's commitment to quality of life..without the quality of life emphasis the NW has, there wouldn't be the opportunities for environmental design or other design practices that you see all over Portland and Seattle and both Vancouvers, along with other places up there.

So for you (as I think it is with most people), a matter of where your job is going to be. What is this nebulous "quality of life"? How do those relate to environmental design and design practices? What specific things does the NW have that is lacking in OKC? How do those relate to environmental design and design practices? Feel free to PM if you want.

Spartan
06-19-2010, 11:33 AM
Richard Florida has been peddling that same nonsense for many years. The problem is, reality has never quite reflected his theory (to put it nicely).

Fortunately, he is a lot more credible than you are.

gmwise
06-19-2010, 11:41 AM
there are 180 million brazilians who might disagree.

rofl!!

BG918
06-19-2010, 12:14 PM
OKC needs a magnet. Obviously it can't be natural (no mountains or oceans). What that magnet could be, I don't know. I do know that OU with its weather research is a national magnet for that and attracts people from all over the world.

I have lived in Denver and the attitude of the people living there is completely different. Many people haved moved from other places (mostly places without mountains, Oklahoma included) to be in a major city next to the mountains. They are there because they want to be there, and in many cases finding a job was secondary. They have a built-in advantage OKC doesn't have, so we must make up for it in other areas which is happening (albeit slowly).

Spartan
06-19-2010, 12:54 PM
People will move to OKC if we can establish the lifestyle and environment people want. Look at Austin, look at Madison, look at Charlotte. It's as simple as that.

Let me save Oil Capitol a post: I know Austin has tech, Charlotte has banks, Madison has UW as "magnets" but what is it that makes banks in Charlotte, tech in Austin, and UW in Madison, different from other "magnets?" We all know OKC has tech, banks, and universities...

semisimple
06-19-2010, 02:23 PM
I know Austin has tech, Charlotte has banks, Madison has UW as "magnets" but what is it that makes banks in Charlotte, tech in Austin, and UW in Madison, different from other "magnets?" We all know OKC has tech, banks, and universities...

OKC has a small tech presence relative to Austin and a small banking/finance sector relative to Charlotte, and the universities around OKC are far from being on the level of the likes of UW and UT.

The strongest "magnets" that OKC has are cheap housing, no bad traffic, and a conservative, religious populace.

gmwise
06-19-2010, 03:23 PM
OKC has a small tech presence relative to Austin and a small banking/finance sector relative to Charlotte, and the universities around OKC are far from being on the level of the likes of UW and UT.

The strongest "magnets" that OKC has are cheap housing, no bad traffic, and a conservative, religious populace.


You mean Sally Kern...
Lets dont forget magnets doesnt always ATTRACT, THEY REPEL.
(postive charge versus negative charge)

Larry OKC
06-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Just thought I'd mention that Denver and Portland don't have mountains, either - you have to drive to them. And guess what, you have to drive to the shore from Washington DC. Chicago has a lake, granted. Houston has a port but isn't on an ocean or a gulf. I was born there and ne'r a beach in sight. Salt Lake? Ski slopes are a drive away. Miami has water but is a pit.

And the Wichita Mountains are an hour and 15 minutes from my OKC house if you want desert.

So can you see those mountains/desert from your house?

How far do you have to drive from your house to reach an ocean or the gulf?

Ski slopes?

gmwise
06-19-2010, 04:53 PM
So can you see those mountains/desert from your house?

How far do you have to drive from your house to reach an ocean or the gulf?

Ski slopes?

Same super vision that Sarah Palin has to see Russia...
lol

Sorry PQ it was way to funny to let it go..

SkyWestOKC
06-19-2010, 06:31 PM
The FAA is also a huge magnet, just about everyone in the FAA comes through OKC at one point or another. Most of those people are short term residents, I.E. less than a year or two before moving back to their assigned cities. But it is a magnet attracting from all over the country, no less. For proof, sit by MacArthur Ave. just north or south of the airport between 3-5PM and see what tags you see. OR, NY, FL, CA, etc. everywhere.

Spartan
06-19-2010, 06:47 PM
OKC has a small tech presence relative to Austin and a small banking/finance sector relative to Charlotte, and the universities around OKC are far from being on the level of the likes of UW and UT.

The strongest "magnets" that OKC has are cheap housing, no bad traffic, and a conservative, religious populace.

Haha..well, I don't know if this post is intended as sarcasm, but yeah that pretty much sums up the current situation, and you're right in implying that it aint gonna get us far. I believe though that cultural change is well underway in Oklahoma. We will always being conservative and religious people, but we are embracing urbanism and sustainability...well, some of us are. That is going to have to be our draw. It will have to be quality of life, because it is going to be more difficult to develop a specific industry, and we can't stick a Top 30 research school in the middle of downtown unless we shut down but OU and OSU.

BG918
06-19-2010, 07:12 PM
If OKC enjoys the same level of growth it has for the past decade that will be fine. Cheap housing and plentiful jobs will keep people coming for years to come. Attracting more urban-minded people will be the challenge, but I think OKC is up to the task. It will be a process and what has happened in other cities will not happen overnight in OKC.

Spartan
06-19-2010, 07:27 PM
Well, the reason I'm not looking for slow urban change is because the urban process is so well established and underway already in OKC.

PennyQuilts
06-19-2010, 08:28 PM
So can you see those mountains/desert from your house?

How far do you have to drive from your house to reach an ocean or the gulf?

Ski slopes?

Go back and read what I wrote. All I said was that the Wichita Mountains are an hour and 15 minutes from my house.

PennyQuilts
06-19-2010, 08:31 PM
So can you see those mountains/desert from your house?

How far do you have to drive from your house to reach an ocean or the gulf?

Ski slopes?

How far do you have to drive to ski from Denver? Salt Lake? If you are looking for scenery, say so. But if you are talking about actual activities that require a geographical locale, you have to actually leave the city for most of them.

Larry OKC
06-20-2010, 12:13 AM
Just thought I'd mention that Denver and Portland don't have mountains, either - you have to drive to them. And guess what, you have to drive to the shore from Washington DC. Chicago has a lake, granted. Houston has a port but isn't on an ocean or a gulf. I was born there and ne'r a beach in sight. Salt Lake? Ski slopes are a drive away. Miami has water but is a pit.

And the Wichita Mountains are an hour and 15 minutes from my OKC house if you want desert.


Go back and read what I wrote. All I said was that the Wichita Mountains are an hour and 15 minutes from my house.

Yes, you did say that but what was your point about the Wichita Mountains being "an hour and 15 minutes" from your house? Sounds like you were saying because you have to leave the city to get to any of those things that it somehow is irrelevant that the distance is so great that you can't even see them (in the case of mountains) from where you are. Sorry if I am reading something into it that isn't there.

Aren't there places to live a lot closer to them than that? In other words it goes back to the original discussion I was having. When you set aside the primary reasons for people living/moving where they do...

1. Job
2. Family
3. Geographic features (scenic or activity based)

What is unique about OKC that would make them "love OKC"... move it to the top of someones list over a myriad of other choices out there? In other words, pretend I am new to this forum. I live out of state and am thinking about relocating. Tell me why I should move to OKC and not Dallas or Denver or any of the other cities mentioned in the thread so far. Throw in that I am in the target demographic that everyone seems to be shooting for. The young/educated/creative/upwardly mobile professional from a traditionally "urban" city and don't have a car & don't want one.

Right now, some things that are in OKC's favor is the lower cost of living, including lower housing costs. One of the lowest unemployment rates in the country (but if you are in a specific field, the jobs may not be here, like in Spartan's case)

PennyQuilts
06-20-2010, 06:06 AM
The diversity is fantastic - all close in. If you are someone who needs something dramatic, like the Rockies or the Pacific ocean, it won't work for you. For many of us who love being able to be within a couple of hours of completely different areas, it is a fantastic, exciting place. Some of us are harder to please, clearly. I like to take photographs. For me, it is so much fun to see the differences. Some of my photographer friends from in and out of OKC feel the same way. But like I said, some people look for the subtleties and the surprises you can find in Oklahoma, close to the city are fun. Others need more. But for those who enjoy the diversity, OKC is a great place. Of course, if someone is mainly looking for a cool mall or a pub, they've be bored out of their minds.

Oil Capital
06-20-2010, 11:13 AM
Fortunately, he is a lot more credible than you are.

Nice. Very junior high of you. I thought you were going to ignore me; Instead you seem to have developed some sort of strange obsession with me.

Instead of childish taunts, why not try showing us Richard Florida's supposed credibility by, say, showing us of all of the hip cities that were going to benefit so greatly from attracting the creative class. Then compare that list to rankings of the most economically successful cities of recent years.

Oddly enough, there is, at best, no relationship. At worst (for Mr. Florida's thesis), an inverse relationship.

I know you judge credibility based on how much someones agrees with you and the academic jargon you've picked up in school, but out here in the real world, many of us judge credibility by more objective means.

Larry OKC
06-20-2010, 10:36 PM
The diversity is fantastic - all close in. If you are someone who needs something dramatic, like the Rockies or the Pacific ocean, it won't work for you. For many of us who love being able to be within a couple of hours of completely different areas, it is a fantastic, exciting place. Some of us are harder to please, clearly. I like to take photographs. For me, it is so much fun to see the differences. Some of my photographer friends from in and out of OKC feel the same way. But like I said, some people look for the subtleties and the surprises you can find in Oklahoma, close to the city are fun. Others need more. But for those who enjoy the diversity, OKC is a great place. Of course, if someone is mainly looking for a cool mall or a pub, they've be bored out of their minds.

I am not disagreeing with you but where is the diversity IN Oklahoma City (or the Metro area)? Again targeting that prime demographic City leadership seems to be wanting. I am just not seeing the diversity you describe, here IN OKC (not as couple of hours away). Heck, a couple of hours and you can be in another state completely. I'm not even sure if I could name off 11 different eco systems and some of the ones I can think of, we don't have. When I think of a very diverse STATE, California immediately comes to mind.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

BG918
06-21-2010, 12:04 AM
I am not disagreeing with you but where is the diversity IN Oklahoma City (or the Metro area)? Again targeting that prime demographic City leadership seems to be wanting. I am just not seeing the diversity you describe, here IN OKC (not as couple of hours away). Heck, a couple of hours and you can be in another state completely. I'm not even sure if I could name off 11 different eco systems and some of the ones I can think of, we don't have. When I think of a very diverse STATE, California immediately comes to mind.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Several mountain ranges within a 1.5-3 hour drive from OKC including the Quartz and Wichita (semi-desert), Arbuckles, and Ouachita's (lush forests). Going across the state you go from almost desert in the west to flat wide open plains to the Cross Timbers where OKC is located then the rolling hills and forests of eastern OK to the Ouachita (southeast) and Boston Mtns. (northeast). Not as diverse as California but compared to the majority of states it is.

Spartan
06-21-2010, 01:33 AM
I know you judge credibility based on how much someones agrees with you and the academic jargon you've picked up in school, but out here in the real world, many of us judge credibility by more objective means.

You aren't picking up any more credibility with comments about "academic jargon." Goddam those people and their newfangled idears...

Portland is expecting 780,000 new residents between now and 2040. OKC isn't even hoping for half that many.

PennyQuilts
06-21-2010, 06:08 AM
Several mountain ranges within a 1.5-3 hour drive from OKC including the Quartz and Wichita (semi-desert), Arbuckles, and Ouachita's (lush forests). Going across the state you go from almost desert in the west to flat wide open plains to the Cross Timbers where OKC is located then the rolling hills and forests of eastern OK to theem. ita (southeast) and Boston Mtns. (northeast). Not as diverse as California but compared to the majority of states it is.

Actually, Oklahoma and only three other states have more than ten ecoregions, according to the EPA. Eleven. And very few cities have extreme regions like mountains or beaches although many are in sight of them. With the traffic that is drawn to them, it is often a fistfight to get to the cool parts. But some are more interested in something dramatic than regional diversity. It is an apples and oranges type of thing.