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Berry Tramel | Sports columnist for the Oklahoman and NewsOK (http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/)

WINNER

Kansas City: Without a Big 12, there is no Big 12 basketball tournament, and KC’s new Sprint Center – without an NBA or NHL tenant – was about to lose its marquee event. But now the tournament can remain in Kansas City and bring millions of dollars to KC coffers.

LOSER

Oklahoma City: OKC has been effectively shut out of the Big 12 basketball tournament. The Pac-10 offered a chance to get back into the hoops rotation.


When did this offer exist?

I suspect he meant that if we formed a new conference, OU would have a chance to get involved in the conference championship tournament, whereas if we stay in the Big Whatever, there's no hope.

The PAC-10, with its warm weather, would be less compelled to have its football conference championship at Jerry World than the Big Whatever is. So, they might look east for their basketball championship games, at least on a rotating basis.

Yippee...excited to be in the Longhorn Conference...sigh.

Yeah sounds like he just meant that the Big 12 seems set on KC for bball, but in the Pac-10 we might have been part of the rotation.

Actually, now that I think of it, there will now be no football conference championship in Dallas because there won't be a football conference championship game. So, Kansas City won big time on that deal. Great revenge for Nebraska, who was ticked off about the football game being in Dallas. We lose our conference championship game, to the tune millions of dollars, and they gain a much bigger share of the pie in the Big Ten and now get a conference championship game in their new conference, since their membership makes the Big Ten hit the required number of teams for a championship game.

Without expansion and having lost Nebraska, we can't be the Big 12. A&M seems ready to go. So we can't be the Big 10 either. Without adding two new teams we must change the name. Who wants to bet the texans make the conference the SWC?

Without expansion and having lost Nebraska, we can't be the Big 12. A&M seems ready to go. So we can't be the Big 10 either. Without adding two new teams we must change the name. Who wants to bet the texans make the conference the SWC?

If they end up adding TCU and Houston, it might as well be.

The Big 10 had 11 teams after adding Penn State...

Oh, what they hey .... just for the fun of having fun with this, isn't UCO in Edmond applying for Division I status and thus at least a wee bit courtable?

Yippee...excited to be in the Longhorn Conference...sigh.

That's really how I feel. OU and Oklahoma continue to play second fiddle to the lone star state in almost every regard, have we no pride or independence. Why did OU have to follow Texas' lead? Doesn't OU command equal respect in college athletics? I do not blame Neb and Colo, they took back their self respect.

I seriously believe this is halftime and that we're going to be in the Pac-10 come Friday regardless of how this shakes down. In the meantime we can refer to the watered down "Big Whatever" as Beebe's Babies, it's a much more fitting name in my opinion.

We really need the Big Whatever to go away already. It's better for OU and OSU to be in the Pac-Whatever and it's MUCH better for OKC to get out of the Big Whatever ... unless the loss of any value in the Big 12 North is cause to renegotiate tournament sites. Nebraska through a hissy fit when KC lost football that was a big part of anchoring bball at Sprint. Nebraska through a hissy fit about everything, but now I'm understanding why someone needs to check UT's ego.

I'm sure it's only a matter of hours until they announce that all championships will be in Dallas from now on..

This is all a moot point now since the PAC 10 merger isn't going to happen. Agreed that Texas made the decision for everyone but it sounds like big bucks for us eventually. Maybe since there won't be enough teams for a conference football championship in Dallas they will revisit the idea of anchoring the basketball tournament in Kansas City. Everything seems to be open to discussion and change at this point.

didn't they say they would do a double round robin in bball? if so, wouldn't that get rid of the championship series? and end KC's monopoly?

if it doesn't, then they need to seriously have a rotation among the region's 4 biggest cities: SA, Dallas, OKC, and KC. Maybe they could do women's in the region's biggest 'small' cities: Tulsa, Omaha, Des Moines, Wichita.

Or they could do the first and 2nd round in the small cities, then the finals in a big city, rotating everything so everyone get's a piece.

That's really how I feel. OU and Oklahoma continue to play second fiddle to the lone star state in almost every regard, have we no pride or independence. Why did OU have to follow Texas' lead? Doesn't OU command equal respect in college athletics? I do not blame Neb and Colo, they took back their self respect.

It has nothing to do with pride. This is all about MONEY. Remember Texas has 26 million people, Oklahoma has 3. Texas has 2 metros with 5+ million people and 2 more with 2 million or more and several others hovering around a million. It's about TV REVENUE and Oklahoma just doesn't have the headcount to support enough money to make a big decision. Sure we have a better history/legacy in college football, but money talks.



I seriously believe this is halftime and that we're going to be in the Pac-10 come Friday regardless of how this shakes down. In the meantime we can refer to the watered down "Big Whatever" as Beebe's Babies, it's a much more fitting name in my opinion.

We really need the Big Whatever to go away already. It's better for OU and OSU to be in the Pac-Whatever and it's MUCH better for OKC to get out of the Big Whatever ... unless the loss of any value in the Big 12 North is cause to renegotiate tournament sites. Nebraska through a hissy fit when KC lost football that was a big part of anchoring bball at Sprint. Nebraska through a hissy fit about everything, but now I'm understanding why someone needs to check UT's ego.

I'm sure it's only a matter of hours until they announce that all championships will be in Dallas from now on..

What are you basing this on? How are they getting championship game still? I thought you had to have 12 teams minimum? Sorry but I'm sure Joe Castiglione, David Boren and Bob Stoops has a better feel for what's better for the university, I'll go by their success record not yours.


didn't they say they would do a double round robin in bball? if so, wouldn't that get rid of the championship series? and end KC's monopoly?

if it doesn't, then they need to seriously have a rotation among the region's 4 biggest cities: SA, Dallas, OKC, and KC. Maybe they could do women's in the region's biggest 'small' cities: Tulsa, Omaha, Des Moines, Wichita.

Or they could do the first and 2nd round in the small cities, then the finals in a big city, rotating everything so everyone get's a piece.


I still don't get why people are saying championship game when we don't have the 12 team minimum now. No way Tulsa is getting any event without a conference school, and why the heck would we go to Omaha after they bailed out on the conference? Makes no sense we'd give them support. Ain't gonna happen.

if it doesn't, then they need to seriously have a rotation among the region's 4 biggest cities: SA, Dallas, OKC, and KC.



FWIW, those are NOT the region's 4 biggest cities.

What are you basing this on? How are they getting championship game still? I thought you had to have 12 teams minimum? Sorry but I'm sure Joe Castiglione, David Boren and Bob Stoops has a better feel for what's better for the university, I'll go by their success record not yours.

I'm basing this off of the fact that A&M is still halfway out the door, and Texas said the call is theirs to make whether the Big 12 collapses. Staying behind UT in the new Texas and its Bitches conference is going to give you UT an incredible amount of control over OU. Any money we get from the conference has to be the scraps they don't want from now on because of Beebe's last minute deal. Especially with the TV payouts where Texas is going to get the biggest share despite putting their nonconference matchups on their own network that pays them an addition $5 mil. So basically we're all just forking over the cash to Texas to stay with our conference, it's pathetic. I can't believe any school other than Texas is going along with this.

I never said anything about the Big Whatever conference football championship, except that at the meeting this year before NU and CU left, that it was anchored in Dallas and bball was anchored in KC.

Spartan, OU will still make more money from TV contracts then it would going to the Pac 14 or whatever it would be, PLUS if Texas went to SEC and we went to Pac16, there would be no annual Red River Rivalry where we make another $2-$8million.

if texas went to sec and we went to pac16, there would be no annual red river rivalry

while i agree that ut and ou will likely go to the same conference, the above is doubtful. the red river rivalry has always been an annual affair, even when ut was in the southwest conference and ou was in the big 8. in fact, most of the games have been played when the two teams were in different conferences.

-M

Spartan, OU will still make more money from TV contracts then it would going to the Pac 14 or whatever it would be, PLUS if Texas went to SEC and we went to Pac16, there would be no annual Red River Rivalry where we make another $2-$8million.

Are SEC and Pac-10 schools not allowed to play each other or something?

The reason A&M's rivalry with Texas was at stake was because if they darted for the SEC they would have been blacklisted by OU and Texas for their part in opening up Texas to SEC recruiting. That was a threat made to A&M. OU and Texas have never been at risk of going to separate conferences, not in any credible news report that is (sorry, that excludes KCTV5 in Kansas City..lol).

With all of the value in the Big 12 north gone now the only silver lining for OU is possibly moving the bball tourney to OKC for good now. Speaking of losing the north, I don't buy Beebe's numbers that the Big 12 only lost 8% of its value, not for a second. I understand that CU was an underperformer but by that standard then NU was an "overperformer" that made up for it. So 8% has to be assuming that NU is only as good as any other team and that CU is absolutely worthless, which can't be true. If the Pac-10 did offer the possibility of OKC basketball and the Big Whatever can't because it's locked in or something, then OU and OSU need to bolt for the Pac-10. We will get a better TV payout as well, not to mention it will be a political structure in which Texas can't control us despite that Texas would then be forced to follow us as well (unless anyone actually believes Texas will stay in a conf reduced to Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas schools).

Again, how do they move the bball tourney to OKC now with only 10 teams, I thought you had to have 12 teams to have a conference tourney.

There’s so much confusion here. Let’s go through this.

No, Tulsa doesn’t have a conference school, but then neither does Arlington, which is to get the last two (for now) conference football championships. There isn’t a conference school anywhere in the Dallas/Ft Worth CSA either. The closest school is Baylor 100 miles from Cowboy’s Stadium. OSU is closer to Tulsa by 40 miles than Baylor is to Arlington. Kansas City also doesn’t have a conference school, and while Lawrence is only 40 miles away, it isn’t in the Kansas City metro area. Oklahoma City itself also does not have a conference school, Norman does. San Antonio has also hosted the football championship, and again, no conference school in the city or metro.

Additionally, the Oklahoma City metro isn’t the fourth largest in the conference region, it’s the eighth, and you know which city is the ninth largest? Tulsa. The large metros in the region are Dallas with 6.5 million people, Houston with 5.9 million, St Louis with 2.8 million, San Antonio and Kansas City with 2.1 million each.

Oklahoma City (1.2 million) would have be in the smaller city category with Austin (1.7 million), Tulsa (.9 million), and El Paso (.8 million). Omaha is no longer in the conference region.

Lastly, having 12 teams has nothing to do with the basketball tournament, that’s a rule for football championship games, not post season conference basketball tournaments. The Big 12/8 post season conference basketball tournament far predates the conference having 12 teams. It dates to 1977 with the Big 8 conference. And the winner of the conference in basketball is the winner of the regular season, not the post season tournament. The post season tournament just decides the automatic qualifier to the NCAAs.

Actually, I believe Nebraska is scooting to the Big Ten as fast as it can, and this year will be the last football championship game.

I think the big t.v. money will be short-lived and when the next contract is due and they've found that not many advertisers are interested in the Big Whatever, the network will be in a position of power, not us. Unless we have a dramatic upswing in annual rankings of OSU, A&M, Kansas and/or Tech, not too many people are going to care who's playing in the Big Whatever if OU and Texas aren't playing. That means fewer dollars. No championship game means fewer dollars as well. And when Texas figures out that the network they're so excited about starting isn't bringing in the big bucks, they'll be looking to see who the highest bidder is. I think this conference is sitting on a house of cards.

Actually, I believe Nebraska is scooting to the Big Ten as fast as it can, and this year will be the last football championship game.

I think the big t.v. money will be short-lived and when the next contract is due and they've found that not many advertisers are interested in the Big Whatever, the network will be in a position of power, not us. Unless we have a dramatic upswing in annual rankings of OSU, A&M, Kansas and/or Tech, not too many people are going to care who's playing in the Big Whatever if OU and Texas aren't playing. That means fewer dollars. No championship game means fewer dollars as well. And when Texas figures out that the network they're so excited about starting isn't bringing in the big bucks, they'll be looking to see who the highest bidder is. I think this conference is sitting on a house of cards.

OSU, Kansas and Tech have all at point been ranked in the top ten in football just the last three years, along with Missouri, Texas and OU. That's six of ten schools that have been ranked in the top ten in the last three years.

In just the last three years Kansas, OU and Texas have combined for five BCS bowls and two national championship games. The Big 12 has been to 17 BCS bowls (third most) and Nebraska and Colorado were responsible for only three of those, and none of the recent appearances. The Big 12 also finished last year with the top conference RPI in basketball and losing Nebraska and Colorado improves the conference in basketball.

Actually, I believe Nebraska is scooting to the Big Ten as fast as it can, and this year will be the last football championship game.

I think the big t.v. money will be short-lived and when the next contract is due and they've found that not many advertisers are interested in the Big Whatever, the network will be in a position of power, not us. Unless we have a dramatic upswing in annual rankings of OSU, A&M, Kansas and/or Tech, not too many people are going to care who's playing in the Big Whatever if OU and Texas aren't playing. That means fewer dollars. No championship game means fewer dollars as well. And when Texas figures out that the network they're so excited about starting isn't bringing in the big bucks, they'll be looking to see who the highest bidder is. I think this conference is sitting on a house of cards.

You can say this for any conference beyond the power brokers. The Pac-10 is especially weak now that USC has been hit with the worst sanctions since OU and OSU got hit hard. Who in the Pac-10 are advertisers supposed to be interested in? Cal, ASU, Oregon, Washington, and others with potential will need to step it up big time to carry that conference.

The Big Ten is also especially when worthless when Ohio State isn't dismantling weak competition.

You've got a lot more television sets in the PAC-10, and although USC sanctions will be a problem for them, it's a short-lived one.

The Big 10 has its own television network and it is raking in the cash. Again, lots of population in Big 10 states. Don't forget Penn State and Michigan are in the Big Ten as well and they're traditional powerhouses. If nothing else, those schools have huge numbers of alumni because they graduate so many students annually. UT and A&M do the same, but those aren't the schools that worry me.

Tech and Kansas have new coaches. We'll see if they can do anything nationally. Remember, for both of them those top 10 rankings are an aberration from tradition. Same with Kansas State in the pre-Snyder years. They were pitiful. So, they aren't traditional powerhouses that generate interest simply by being themselves. They'll have to stay on top for anyone to care, and we don't know if they can.

I don't think there are too many people who think the Big Whatever is stronger than it was two weeks ago, and it's decidedly less stable. We'll see if that t.v. money materializes, or if Texas can make any money from it's little network experiment. If not, other conferences will suddenly become a lot more alluring and the next time, OU and OSU might not get an offer along with Texas. The SEC wasn't interested in OSU, and the Big Ten was only interested in Texas. Lose Texas and we're in a world of hurt.

I'm just saying that for OU and OSU, not going to the PAC-10 is ultimately a bad thing, I believe. It won't matter to Texas because they'll be welcomed in any conference at any time.

There’s so much confusion here. Let’s go through this.

No, Tulsa doesn’t have a conference school, but then neither does Arlington, which is to get the last two (for now) conference football championships. There isn’t a conference school anywhere in the Dallas/Ft Worth CSA either. The closest school is Baylor 100 miles from Cowboy’s Stadium. OSU is closer to Tulsa by 40 miles than Baylor is to Arlington. Kansas City also doesn’t have a conference school, and while Lawrence is only 40 miles away, it isn’t in the Kansas City metro area. Oklahoma City itself also does not have a conference school, Norman does. San Antonio has also hosted the football championship, and again, no conference school in the city or metro.

Additionally, the Oklahoma City metro isn’t the fourth largest in the conference region, it’s the eighth, and you know which city is the ninth largest? Tulsa. The large metros in the region are Dallas with 6.5 million people, Houston with 5.9 million, St Louis with 2.8 million, San Antonio and Kansas City with 2.1 million each.

Oklahoma City (1.2 million) would have be in the smaller city category with Austin (1.7 million), Tulsa (.9 million), and El Paso (.8 million). Omaha is no longer in the conference region.

Lastly, having 12 teams has nothing to do with the basketball tournament, that’s a rule for football championship games, not post season conference basketball tournaments. The Big 12/8 post season conference basketball tournament far predates the conference having 12 teams. It dates to 1977 with the Big 8 conference. And the winner of the conference in basketball is the winner of the regular season, not the post season tournament. The post season tournament just decides the automatic qualifier to the NCAAs.

True, but let's be real, St. Louis was never really a "Big 12" town when it comes to championships, etc. It's always been KC. I think the points that were trying to be made was that Tulsa, El Paso and other cities in the region don't have the adequate facilities along with entertainment nearby. Sorry but nothing can compete with JerryWorld, let's not kid ourselves, the conference makes a KILLING off a game there with all the additional premium seating, etc. Not to mention, Dallas has boatloads of entertainment options that Tulsa can't offer. OKC at least has Bricktown and other thriving downtown districts within walking distance that can feed off the tournaments. Tulsa and El Paso have what? Not to mention the lack of the same caliber of facilities.